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The *OFFICIAL* 2012 Samsung EH4000/EH5000/EH5300 Owner's Thread... - Page 11

post #301 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

also...why do regular dvds have such an awful picture on this thing? it literally looks about like a vhs tape qualitywise......i swear my girlfriends dynex which is a 720p plays regular dvds and they look like blu rays...we watched "tree of life" the other night..it was a flawless picture....is it my blu ray player perhaps? i have a panasonic bdk35...2008 model

Try hooking your blu-ray player up to the DYNXEX and see how it looks.
post #302 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

dang really? contrast is great and i see no problems with viewing angle.....just the motion........any idea which panel is the one with the best motion?? of course id hate to send mine back for a different panel and end up getting one with even worse motion or worse picture

I don't think there is much experience with sharp panels in this thread. Sharp usually uses ASV panels.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/14657801-post494.html

Most VA based panels will have some issues with motion (LCDs in general aren't good at motion). VA based panels aren't the fastest, but they have the best contrast. Samsung, Sony, and sometimes Toshiba all use VA based panels.

I would first try putting it in Movie mode and disable most of the picture/motion "enhancements", and turn down sharpness. This should reduce some the motion issues.

Your free to try an A-MVA (AUO Optronics) or S-MVA (Chi Mei), or ASV (Sharp) which are the other panels used in these sets, but it may not improve (might even get worse). Most people are trying to to get an S-PVA Samsung panel.

If motion is a PRIORITY, you shouldn't be looking at VA panels, but instead something like IPS (Panasonic, LG). But you can kiss your black levels goodbye.
post #303 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

also...why do regular dvds have such an awful picture on this thing? it literally looks about like a vhs tape qualitywise......i swear my girlfriends dynex which is a 720p plays regular dvds and they look like blu rays...we watched "tree of life" the other night..it was a flawless picture....is it my blu ray player perhaps? i have a panasonic bdk35...2008 model

The dynex was probably hiding some of the "crap" on the DVD that the Samsung is showing. First of all the dynex is only 720p, so it's showing less detail, which ironically looks better with DVD. A 1920 x 1080 set blowing up a 720 x 480 signal will look crappier than a 1280 x 720 (or 1368 x 768) set blowing up the signal. 1080p is showing more detail, and that detail is a bit ugly. Dynex sets usually crush blacks and blow out whites a bit, so it's probably hiding some of the artifacts and compression in shadows too.
post #304 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

please anyone.....is there a better panel than the TS01 for motion?? ive either got to exchange it or just get a different tv altogether...its just unacceptable for motion to suck this bad

Is it that bad? I have 40" hs03 panel which is sharp. Everything looks good except viewing angle. So I was thinking exchange to Samsung Panel but I don't know.
post #305 of 2167
Hi, I got blur/out of focus image (when there is motion) viewing HD cable on a UN32EH4000G, tried different brands of HDMI with same results. I tested the cable box on my monitor (Samsung P2370H) and I didin't see that problem.
the problem is same to http://www.avsforum.com/t/1407011/samsung-un32eh500-focus-smoothing-issues#post_21941429. I send a private msg to him but I didn't have answers.
anyone notice this problem?

Thanks in advance
post #306 of 2167
UN46EH5300 TH02 - Samsung (46A6AF0D).

Came from Amazon 2 days ago.
post #307 of 2167
TS01 - A

brazilian model....

No input lag, no blur issues in my games ...

playing COD, BF3, Counter Strike, Diablo...

very responsive as far as i could notice...
post #308 of 2167
Could be the superior model, A fried of mine has a TS01 as well ill have to personally check.
post #309 of 2167
so the TS01 is really supposed to be a top model ?? ill do some more tinkering with it ...think i still have a couple weeks or so left before im unable to send the tv back ....if it doesnt get better may have to try an IP like LG or Pan.
post #310 of 2167
TS01 and TS02 should be the same, except the latter should be manufactured more recently (dont bother trading in one for the other). THxx and TSxx versions should both be Samsung from what others have reported (those are the only two know of).

As for one panel being superior to the other you just have to Google the differences between between the different types : S-PVA, A-MVA, S-MVA, ASV.

Most people prefer S-PVA, and that's the one Samsung actually makes.
post #311 of 2167
1. Is the tv 24P compatible?

2. I use 'Standard Picture mode' for all inputs, which are calibrated but should I use 'Movie mode' when watching blu ray or a HD movie on one of the HD tv channels. I'm not too sure what to do?

3. In 'Picture option'/ 'film mode'/ - What is the difference between 'auto 1' and 'auto 2' and should I be using it or not?
post #312 of 2167
im looking at the LG 32LS3400 it uses an IPS panel only catch is it's 720p and "edge lit LED" ........... i suppose with this set i would have much better motion.....but is the 720p going to be much more noticeable less quality than the samsung 1080p? and Edge Lit ...dont they bleed alot? ..just trying to look at my options...i still have about 20 days left to decide to keep this samsung or not....but if the LG is a great picture with no motion problems then i may check it out...guess i could always buy one and hook it up and see and just send the LG back if not interested
post #313 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthwomble View Post

1. Is the tv 24P compatible?
2. I use 'Standard Picture mode' for all inputs, which are calibrated but should I use 'Movie mode' when watching blu ray or a HD movie on one of the HD tv channels. I'm not too sure what to do?
3. In 'Picture option'/ 'film mode'/ - What is the difference between 'auto 1' and 'auto 2' and should I be using it or not?

The 6000 is 120hz so it will multiply frames from 24p signals 5 times to fit into its 120hz signals.
The 4000 and 5000 are 60hz. Since 60 doesn't divide by 24, the TV will have to do a pulldown process, which is what the "Film mode" options control. It should be OK to leave it on Auto 1 when watching a 24p blu-ray, I haven't tried them though. Personally I would leave it on Movie mode all the time, as standard supposedly overaturates and crushes colors a bit in processing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

im looking at the LG 32LS3400 it uses an IPS panel only catch is it's 720p and "edge lit LED" ........... i suppose with this set i would have much better motion.....but is the 720p going to be much more noticeable less quality than the samsung 1080p? and Edge Lit ...dont they bleed alot? ..just trying to look at my options...i still have about 20 days left to decide to keep this samsung or not....but if the LG is a great picture with no motion problems then i may check it out...guess i could always buy one and hook it up and see and just send the LG back if not interested

Like I said before, IPS has inferior black levels and conrast to VA panels. Your free to try an IPS screen. They motion should be a bit better. I don't know about "much better motion". Lots of people in this thread seem fine with the motion on S-PVA panels.

Depending on how close your sitting, 720p may be too low - you may see pixels, i.e. screen door effect. I personally hate seeing pixels and don't use anything less than 1080p, but I sit close.

Edge lit in theory should have more flashlighting then a direct lit LED set.
Edited by chicolom - 8/31/12 at 7:29pm
post #314 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

The 6000 is 120hz so it will multiply frames from 24p signals 5 times to fit into its 120hz signals.
The 4000 and 5000 are 60hz. Since 60 doesn't divide by 24, the TV will have to do a pulldown process, which is what the "Film mode" options control. It should be OK to leave it on Auto 1 when watching a 24p blu-ray, I haven't tried them though. Personally I would leave it on Movie mode all the time, as standard supposedly overaturates and crushes colors a bit in processing.
Like I said before, IPS has inferior black levels and conrast to VA panels. Your free to try an IPS screen. They motion should be a bit better. I don't know about "much better motion". Lots of people in this thread seem fine with the motion on S-PVA panels.
Depending on how close your sitting, 720p may be too low - you may see pixels, i.e. screen door effect. I personally hate seeing pixels and don't use anything less than 1080p, but I sit close.
Edge lit in theory should have more flashlighting then a direct lit LED set.


so ive messed with the settings and dvds look alright on movie mode...still cant fix the blur but oh well .... i cant seem to find a good 32 inch 1080p WITH 120hz unless its a cheaper brand or a Vizio...and from what ive seen the Vizios dont seem to last all that long without problems..may just make do with this samsung

when u speak of black levels what do u mean...they appear more grayish than black or something?
post #315 of 2167
What about usb media player of this tv, does it work properly with mkv files?
post #316 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by robster80 View Post

when u speak of black levels what do u mean...they appear more grayish than black or something?

Yes. Like this.
post #317 of 2167
what about a vizio? anyone have luck with this brand?? ive read lots of good reviews and from the displays i see they have incredible picture quality...but their reliability seems to be questionable..i see lots of refurbished ones for sale...found a 32 inch edge lit LED w/120hz ...very tempting as this could solve my motion blur whining..........BUT is it just me or does anyone notice less eye strain watching LED as opposed to an LCD ?? ive watched my samsung led for generous amount of time with no eye strain yet when i watch our 40 inch toshiba lcd my eyes get a bit strained after a little while...thats another reason im wondering if i should just deal with the blur and keep the LED samsung as opposed to the edge lit LED vizio
post #318 of 2167
I finally picked up a UN40EH5000 for myself.

I had to go to a couple stores in order to get a TS02. Most of the stores were selling Cxxx and Hxxx panels.

I'm really impressed with it.

Viewing angles are great, blacks/contrast is great, color/gamma looks great.

No bleeding or flashlighting.

Motion looks fine to me.

Everything is a BIG improvement over my old 2008 Toshiba 32" TV.
post #319 of 2167
I have a 5050 model from Costco and posted my impression in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426757/40-inch-shootout-samsung-un40eh5050f-vs-toshiba-40l5200u

It is the Hxxx panel. As you can see in my thread, it seems to do flesh tones and tan colors accurately, but it seems duller than the Toshiba I am comparing it to. Also, the blacks are not quite as good,nor the viewing angle. I haven't made a final choice, but I am leaning towards the Toshiba, especially because it has three HDMI inputs vs. two on the Samsung.
post #320 of 2167
I've noticed several people complaining that these sets are washed out.

I noticed that on mine, the black level was set to "normal" out of the box, which means it's expecting a range from 0-255.
This may only show up with an RGB source instead of YCBcr.
For most devices (blu-ray players, cable boxes), the TV needs to be set to Black level: "Low", in order to properly display the 16-235 range they're outputting. As soon as I did that, the picture was no longer washed out.

Renaming the hdmi input to "PC" allows the TV to display 4:4:4 chroma, making the picture sharper and clearer for games and PCs output.
Edited by chicolom - 9/2/12 at 3:46pm
post #321 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

I've noticed several people complaining that these sets are washed out.
I noticed that on mine, the black level was set to "normal" out of the box, which means it's expecting a range from 0-255.
This may only show up with an RGB source instead of YCBcr.
For most devices (blu-ray players, cable boxes), the TV needs to be set to Black level: "Low", in order to properly display the 16-235 range they're outputting. As soon as I did that, the picture was no longer washed out.
Renaming the hdmi input to "PC" allows the TV to display 4:4:4 chroma, making the picture sharper and clearer for games and PCs output.

The HDMI black level adjustment is greyed out for my Blu Ray player, so I cannot set it to low. I assume that is because the player is outputting YCbCr.
post #322 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

The HDMI black level adjustment is greyed out for my Blu Ray player, so I cannot set it to low. I assume that is because the player is outputting YCbCr.

I think so. YCbCr should always be 16-235.
post #323 of 2167
Hi guys. I got samsung un40eh5000 for couple days ago. I had to visit several stores to get TS02 version. Most of them had HS03 in stock. Last night, I hooked it up to PC and did uniformity test. Everything looked good but on 10% gray screen, it shows vertical and horizontal banding. Sometimes I see this banding on grass background. I don't know if this is normal for direct-lit led panel and goes away as time goes on. Any help would be appreciated.




post #324 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by bananafi5h View Post

Hi guys. I got samsung un40eh5000 for couple days ago. I had to visit several stores to get TS02 version. Most of them had HS03 in stock. Last night, I hooked it up to PC and did uniformity test. Everything looked good but on 10% gray screen, it shows vertical and horizontal banding. Sometimes I see this banding on grass background. I don't know if this is normal for direct-lit led panel and goes away as time goes on. Any help would be appreciated.



All sets suffer the same limitation even the most highend ones, both of my 32EH5000 show a certain degree of banding in certain shades of grey but they are only noticeable if the screen is displaying an all grey screen. If it bothers you so much try to have it replaced.
post #325 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHTbuyer View Post

I have a 5050 model from Costco and posted my impression in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426757/40-inch-shootout-samsung-un40eh5050f-vs-toshiba-40l5200u
It is the Hxxx panel. As you can see in my thread, it seems to do flesh tones and tan colors accurately, but it seems duller than the Toshiba I am comparing it to. Also, the blacks are not quite as good,nor the viewing angle. I haven't made a final choice, but I am leaning towards the Toshiba, especially because it has three HDMI inputs vs. two on the Samsung.

Hxxx = Sharp = ASV panel (most likely). The Toshiba is most likely using an S-PVA panel from Samsung. S-PVA has a little better blacks and viewing angles then Sharp's ASV.

In those pics, the Gamma seems a little off on the Toshiba. Tom Cruise's face seems too light/pale on the Toshiba...
post #326 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickdc View Post

What about usb media player of this tv, does it work properly with mkv files?

It works really fine to me...with MKV files that has more languages as subtitles you can choose wich one to use...that was great for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

I finally picked up a UN40EH5000 for myself.
I had to go to a couple stores in order to get a TS02. Most of the stores were selling Cxxx and Hxxx panels.
I'm really impressed with it.
Viewing angles are great, blacks/contrast is great, color/gamma looks great.
No bleeding or flashlighting.
Motion looks fine to me.
Everything is a BIG improvement over my old 2008 Toshiba 32" TV.

Depending on the picture mode I fell the black really poor sometimes...and some bleeding, but few, not too much...



Would you post some calibration?
post #327 of 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemonium08 View Post

All sets suffer the same limitation even the most highend ones, both of my 32EH5000 show a certain degree of banding in certain shades of grey but they are only noticeable if the screen is displaying an all grey screen. If it bothers you so much try to have it replaced.

Thank you for input. I also have samsung LCD tv (SQ01) and it shows perfect uniformity unlike this set. I guess it is common issue for direct-lit led panel? If so, I just want to know how serious is mine compare to others.
Edited by bananafi5h - 9/3/12 at 10:17am
post #328 of 2167
UN40EH5000 Calibration Settings

(I'll update this post whenever I update my settings)

I have three different calibration settings for the three modes I use: "Standard", "Movie" and "PC mode" (which is what I call renaming the input to "PC" - eliminates subsampling and enables 4:4:4 capability).
All three modes have been calibrated to look the same.

* indicates where the settings diverge some in order to accommodate for differences in processing for each mode.

Pictures Settings

  • Backlight: 20 on all (adjust for your own room conditions).
  • Contrast: 92 on all
  • Brightness: 45 on Movie/"PC". I use 46 on "Standard" to compensate for the gamma shift caused by the automatic backlight dimming.
  • * Sharpness: 50 on "PC mode", 0-10 on "Movie/Standard" (your personal preference on those modes. I use 5)
  • * Color: 50 on "PC mode (can't change it)", 53 on "Movie", and 41 on "Standard" mode
  • Tint: 50/50 on all

Advanced Settings:

  • Color Space: Auto on all ("native" does horrible things to the greens)
  • * White Balance: R-Gain: 8, G-Gain: 20, B-Gain:27 on "Standard" Mode, "PC" Mode & "Movie" Mode both use R-Gain: 22, G-Gain: 34, B-Gain: 41
  • Gamma: -1 on all
  • Dynamic Contrast: Off on all
  • Black Tone: Off on all
  • Flesh Tone: 0 on all
  • Motion Lighting: Off on all, BUT the effect of this setting (dynamic backlight adjustment based on the percentage of black on screen) is always present on "Standard" mode anyways (also same for "Game Mode"), and I see no way to disable it. Movie and PC mode the automatic backlight dimming is disabled and motion lighting is greyed-out.


Picture Options:

  • Color Tone: Warm 2 on all.
  • * Size: 16:9 on "PC mode", Screen Fit on all other modes. These are the 1:1 ratios for this TV.
  • Digital Noise Filter: Off
  • HDMI Black Level: Depends on the source. It will be greyed out with a YCbCr signal - If it's greyed out you don't have to mess with it. With an RGB signal "Black Level: Normal" matches full range 0-255 signals, and "Black Level: Low" matches limited range 16-235 signals. Further explanation on full range vs limited range below...
  • LED Motion Plus: Off Led motion enables or disables backlight scanning. This intentionally flickers the backlight with the intention of reducing motion blur, but it also cuts the light output/brightness in half.


Keep in mind these settings are for a Samsung S-PVA panel.



______________________________

Notes:

Explanation of Basic Calibration, as well as limited range (16-235) vs full range (0-255) RGB signals. (Click to show)

Full Range 0-255 signal vs Limited Range 16-235:

8 bit RGB displays show 255 different values. So that's where the 0-255 comes from. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white. This is what computers render at.

Videos, whether broadcast over cable or on a disc like blu ray compress that 0-255 range down to 16-235. They remap it so that 16 becomes pure black and 235 becomes pure white (instead of 0 and 255). If the TV isn't set to look for that "limited" range, it will keep looking for blacks and whites to spread across the entire 0-255 range. This is mismatched and the picture will quality will show it.

On the Samsungs, the "Black Level" adjustment controls this range. "Normal" sets the TV to 0-255, and "low" sets the TV to 16-235. It is only adjustable with an RGB signal, because RGB has the option of outputting at either limited range (16-235) or full range (0-255), while a YCbCr signal is always limited range. This is why the "Black Level" greys out when you have a YCbCr signal - the TV automatically sets itself to limited range as it knows YCbCr can only be limited range.

The majority of sources hooked up to a TV use the YCbCr color space by default (cable boxes, blu ray players). This is why most people will have the black level adjustment greyed out on their TV.

RGB is more likely to be used by a computer. Game consoles can use it too, but you sometimes have to go out of your way to turn it on.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is another way to think about it:

It's like trying to fit something into a box that's either too small, too big, or just right.

If the "box" (aka the TV) is too small (0-255 source signal going into a 16-235 TV) the corners get clipped off. The TV has set pure black to be at 16 even though the source is still outputting different shades all the way down to 0. The TV doesn't care though, and turns the 0-16 shades all into black. Same thing for the shades above 235 - the TV turns them all white even if there is information up there from the source. This is when you get crushed blacks and clipped whites.




If the "box" is too big (16-235 source signal into a 0-255 TV) there's a lot of wasted space that doesn't get used. This is when the blacks become dark grey and the picture washes out. The source wants the pure black to be up at 16, but the TV wants it down at 0, and the TV wins. Just like the Honey Badger, the TV doesn't care. So 16 ends up displaying as dark grey on the TV, even though the source thinks 16 is actually pure black. Result = washed out picture.



If the box is just right and a perfect fit (a 16-235 source signal going into a 16-235 TV... OR, a 0-255 source going into a 0-255 TV) it then fills up all the space perfectly without clipping any corners or having extra wasted space not being used. The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.



Basic Calibration:

By the way, this ^ ("The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.") is the same premise behind basic calibration. You want to set the white point to be as as white as possible without going over and clipping highlight information and without going under and washing out. You do this by adjusting contrast. You want to set the black point to be as black/dark as possible without going too low and crushing dark information or going too high and washing out (turning blacks dark grey). You do this by adjusting brightness. You want the color range to be as colorful as possible without going too high and clipping information (highest color shades blend together instead of being distinct) or going too low and washing out the colors. You do this by adjusting color. So on and so forth. You want to fill up all of the dynamic range that the TV has, as closely as possible, without going over or under.

This basic calibration stuff you can usually do by eye. You can look at patterns and see where it starts to clip information and set it just below that level. More advanced calibration involves adjusting the accuracy of the color, the greyscale color temperature, the gamma curve, etc. These things are harder to do by eye, which is why people use meters and software to help out.

I switch between PC, Movie, and Standard modes depending on what I'm watching. I have them all setup to look essentially identical to each other. I use PC for...monitor/PC use. Movie for TV. And Standard for gaming, and also for some movies/shows that have a lot of dark scenes (where the automatic backlight dimming is more beneficial)

I like to use AVS HD 709 to calibrate. I also used a blue filter for color/tint.

Good guidelines for doing a basic calibration, by PlasmaPZ80U.

[*] When renaming input to "PC", sharpness of 50 is the ideal setting, as anything above causes artifacts and anything below blurs pixels together. When not renaming input and on "Movie" mode, subsampling is turned on and the sharpness is more difficult to set. I don't recommend going above 15, and ideally somewhere between 0-10 would be better.


Differences between "Standard" mode and "Movie" mode.

1) Standard has always-on automatic backlight dimming, also known as "motion lighting" in the menus. The backlight dimming seems to happen on YCbCr signals as well as RGB full range, but not RGB limited range.In Movie mode backlight dimming is disabled completely (except for a pure black screen, where it will also shut off the backlight).
2) Standard has stronger color saturation, approximately 12 points more than Movie mode.
3) Standard has a higher white point (contrast), approximately 6 points more than Movie mode.


Turning up white balance R, G, & B gains simultaneously has the same effect as raising the contrast control (both raise the white point). So, calibrating "PC mode" and "Movie" mode to have the same contrast setting as "Standard" mode is possible, but it requires is that you turn up the R-G-B drives simultaneously - which is what I did above in my white balance settings.


- Some adjustment options are disabled when renaming an input to "PC".
- It is recommend to disable dynamic contrast, digital noise filter, and black tone as those controls are likely to screw up any calibration and degrade the picture.
- "Color Space: Native" over-saturates colors - "Auto" is recommended instead.
- "Game Mode" initially has horrible settings, with excessive sharpness, bad colors, and "dynamic contrast" enabled. Once you tune it down though, it behaves identically to "Standard" mode. It doesn't seem to change the input lag though (at least on the EH5000), so I'm not sure what exactly it's doing - and why Samsung thinks it "degrades the picture quality". It's possible that "Game mode" is simply an extra picture mode with no effect on processing, and the warnings are just a universal disclaimer to cover their higher end models where it actually does changes the processing...

__________________________________

Input Lag Results:

Input Lag Test Results (Click to show)
Here are my input lag test results for a Samsung UN40EH5000 (with Version TS02 S-PVA panel). Photos were taken at 1/1000 of a second, and the control screen is my laptop's TN display.

Average input lag appears to be 2 frames @ ~33 ms.

There isn't a substantial difference between having Game Mode ON or OFF from what I can see.


Game Mode ON:

50ms, 31ms, 50ms, 10ms, 37ms, 17ms, 34ms, 0ms ( zero?)




Normal (Game Mode OFF):

33ms, 16ms, 34ms, 32ms, 16ms, 50ms, 34ms, 32ms, 35ms




PC Mode (Renaming input to "PC", also allows 4:4:4 display):
20ms, 32ms, 33ms, 34ms, 39ms, 50ms, 17ms, 33ms, 51ms, 16ms, 17ms, 17ms, 35ms, 34ms, 16ms


Edited by chicolom - 1/20/14 at 10:09am
post #329 of 2167
Anyone have suggested picture settings for the UN32EH4000F in a dark room? Or something for a similar enough model? I've seen the ones suggested by CNET but wasn't overly happy with the result.
post #330 of 2167
I added Input Lag Test Results to my above Calibration Post ^^^
Edited by chicolom - 9/3/12 at 9:19pm
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