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The *OFFICIAL* 2012 Samsung EH4000/EH5000/EH5300 Owner's Thread... - Page 28

post #811 of 2169
About all those numbers on the box...

As you may recall I originally had a PN43E450 plasma which we returned as it made my wife and me dizzy. We then purchased the UN46EH5300 and just love it.

I just happened to review some of the pictures I took of both TV''s and their boxes.

PN43E450 - Version: TS02 Made in Mexico
UN46EH5300 - Version: TH02 Made in Mexico

So I'm confused as many of our 5000 series sets have the TS02 version.

Is the same software used on both the plasma and LED sets?
post #812 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraweiss View Post

About all those numbers on the box...

Is the same software used on both the plasma and LED sets?

I believe the version number just indicates which facility the panel was fabricated at.
post #813 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraweiss View Post

About all those numbers on the box...
As you may recall I originally had a PN43E450 plasma which we returned as it made my wife and me dizzy. We then purchased the UN46EH5300 and just love it.
I just happened to review some of the pictures I took of both TV''s and their boxes.
PN43E450 - Version: TS02 Made in Mexico
UN46EH5300 - Version: TH02 Made in Mexico
So I'm confused as many of our 5000 series sets have the TS02 version.
Is the same software used on both the plasma and LED sets?

There is no PDP (plasma display panel) lottery AFAIK, so the version codes for Plasma TVs can be safely ignored.
post #814 of 2169
I recently bought the 46eh5300, and noticed a strange issue. I am assuming it was something I did wrong in the setup. I set the settings for a great picture while I was watching TV, and later put a blu-ray disc in. The picture was very dark. I went into the menu and the settings were not what I had set earlier in the day. Do we need to set the picture up for each input on the TV? One for TV, one for DVD/Blu-ray, etc.? Or did it just not remember my settings when I originally set them?
post #815 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdesjardins99 View Post

I recently bought the 46eh5300, and noticed a strange issue. I am assuming it was something I did wrong in the setup. I set the settings for a great picture while I was watching TV, and later put a blu-ray disc in. The picture was very dark. I went into the menu and the settings were not what I had set earlier in the day. Do we need to set the picture up for each input on the TV? One for TV, one for DVD/Blu-ray, etc.? Or did it just not remember my settings when I originally set them?

Each input has independent settings from the other inputs (HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc.). If you plug different sources into the same input, it will keep the settings.
post #816 of 2169
Anyone know why in Australia (or other regions) the 5000 and 5300 are named 5006 and 5306?
Edited by jobble9 - 12/26/12 at 2:34pm
post #817 of 2169
I am about to buy Samsung 32" Led on sale tomorrow. Can someone please tell me which model should i go for? UN32EH4003 on sale at the source for $297.99:http://www.thesource.ca/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&product=8005119&ref=3485

or older model (UN32EH4000) at sears for same price
I have read that the main difference is one is edge lit and other is back lit? One has audio out and other doesnt. I'll mount to my kitchen wall.

One more question when buying wall mount can i buy any wall mount that would fit 32inch tv or is there a specific one i need for this tv? thx
post #818 of 2169
Hi,

I've jsut bought a 37eh5000 for my parents. But when installling it, I've just realized that there is a lighter rectangle in the center of the screen. It has a similar size and shape than the TV menus. It is difficult to notice it, but if you focus on it, when the screen is dark (dark scenes or changing the channel) you can see it. It is a rectangle not as dark as the rest of the screen.

I thouth this could be a lighting problem of the panel or something but as this is the first LED TV I've ever used i don't know if this is normal. Should I call the sat or visit the retailer?

Cheers,
Albert
post #819 of 2169
Chicolom, I thank you for your settings which I can use when I get the TV too, but I wonder--is it necessary to have different settings for each game console? Besides HDMI black levels (which as you said is relative to the setting that starts with Y, I forget what it's called), do brightness, contrast and other elementary settings need to be tailored to each device, or is it generally a one size fits all approach? The reason I ask this is that I want to get the 5000, but it only comes with 2 HDMI ports, whilst the 5300 comes with 3 but is a lot more expensive. If I go with the 5000, it means that I'll be switching one of my three game consoles around when I want to play them, thus resulting in 2 of the consoles sharing the same settings.
post #820 of 2169
Hey everyone so i just bought Samsung UN32EH4003 and panel version is DH03 . are there any complains about this panel? is this panel by sharp?
post #821 of 2169
I have a UN40EH5003, is 15 sharpness okay? Also, renaming the input to PC seems to reduce input lag but it looks a little blurry even though it's on 50 sharpness. Is this normal?
Edited by ImPraxis - 12/27/12 at 12:53am
post #822 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobble9 View Post

Chicolom, I thank you for your settings which I can use when I get the TV too, but I wonder--is it necessary to have different settings for each game console? Besides HDMI black levels (which as you said is relative to the setting that starts with Y, I forget what it's called), do brightness, contrast and other elementary settings need to be tailored to each device, or is it generally a one size fits all approach? The reason I ask this is that I want to get the 5000, but it only comes with 2 HDMI ports, whilst the 5300 comes with 3 but is a lot more expensive. If I go with the 5000, it means that I'll be switching one of my three game consoles around when I want to play them, thus resulting in 2 of the consoles sharing the same settings.

You don't really need different settings for each console. The PS3 tends to have a little lighter gamma than the Xbox (because the xbox uses a piecewise linear approximation of a gamma curve), but they should be close enough that it doesn't matter between them.
post #823 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

You don't really need different settings for each console. The PS3 tends to have a little lighter gamma than the Xbox (because the xbox uses a piecewise linear approximation of a gamma curve), but they should be close enough that it doesn't matter between them.

Ah, okay. Thanks so much.

A few other things... I know you probably don't own both TVs, but the 5000/5300 are designed to be the same, picture quality wise, right? Reason being is that I originally found out about these TVs thanks to this review of the 5300 (http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-32-40-46-EH5300-46-Inch-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_425/Review.html) but I might only be able to afford the 5000 and I'm hoping that the review applies to that model also as a result.

Also, are these TVs fully LED lit (do such TVs even exist?) or is it only edge-lit? Can I expect a worthwhile improvement over an older, LCD-only model? I'm not too versed in the technology, so I do apologise & appreciate your help!

And by the way, is it worth it going to the effort to update the firmware on the TVs? Is it really recommended? Cheers.
Edited by jobble9 - 12/27/12 at 4:45am
post #824 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobble9 View Post

Ah, okay. Thanks so much.
A few other things... I know you probably don't own both TVs, but the 5000/5300 are designed to be the same, picture quality wise, right? Reason being is that I originally found out about these TVs thanks to this review of the 5300 (http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Samsung-UE-32-40-46-EH5300-46-Inch-LED-LCD-Smart-TV-Review_425/Review.html) but I might only be able to afford the 5000 and I'm hoping that the review applies to that model also as a result.
Also, are these TVs fully LED lit (do such TVs even exist?) or is it only edge-lit? Can I expect a worthwhile improvement over an older, LCD-only model? I'm not too versed in the technology, so I do apologise & appreciate your help!
And by the way, is it worth it going to the effort to update the firmware on the TVs? Is it really recommended? Cheers.

AFAIK, the 5000 and 5300 have the same picture quality and just have different software.

The "EH" TVs are direct-lit, which means the LEDs are arranged behind the TV similar to a full array LED set, but with fewer LEDs to save cost. The "ES" TVs are edge-lit.

LCD and LED are the same thing. LED is just the type of backlight used. All "LED" TVs are LCDs, but not all LCDs use LEDs for the backlight. Older LCDs and some lower priced ones use CCFL backlights instead of LEDs.

Whether it's an improvement over and older TV is probably on a case-by-case basis. For me it is a big upgrade over my older LCD (from 2008) as the new TV has much better black levels and contrast, better viewing angles, and better motion. I can probably attribute most of that to improvements in panel tech and not necessarily to the LED backlight. If your upgrading from a 2010 or newer LCD, it's probably less of an improvement.

In general it's good to update the firmware in case it fixes an issue, but it seems like some TVs might ship with newer firmware installed then what Samsung has listed on their website - in which case "updating" would actually rollback to a older firmware.
post #825 of 2169
Anyone know what changes were made in the recent 1022.0 firmware update for the UE32EH5000? I'm currently on 1021.0. I'm sincerely hoping the auto-dimming has been removed, or that an option has been added to that end.

Merry Christmas!
post #826 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

AFAIK, the 5000 and 5300 have the same picture quality and just have different software.
The "EH" TVs are direct-lit, which means the LEDs are arranged behind the TV similar to a full array LED set, but with fewer LEDs to save cost. The "ES" TVs are edge-lit.
LCD and LED are the same thing. LED is just the type of backlight used. All "LED" TVs are LCDs, but not all LCDs use LEDs for the backlight. Older LCDs and some lower priced ones use CCFL backlights instead of LEDs.
Whether it's an improvement over and older TV is probably on a case-by-case basis. For me it is a big upgrade over my older LCD (from 2008) as the new TV has much better black levels and contrast, better viewing angles, and better motion. I can probably attribute most of that to improvements in panel tech and not necessarily to the LED backlight. If your upgrading from a 2010 or newer LCD, it's probably less of an improvement.
In general it's good to update the firmware in case it fixes an issue, but it seems like some TVs might ship with newer firmware installed then what Samsung has listed on their website - in which case "updating" would actually rollback to a older firmware.

Thanks so much. I just got the TV today and I am using your settings now. I'm just wondering, is colour tone a matter of preference? I've set it to Warm as you suggested, but Standard seems to look more natural to me. That's probably because I'm just used to it, but do you think it's worth me acclimatising to Warm or is it just up to each person?
post #827 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobble9 View Post

Thanks so much. I just got the TV today and I am using your settings now. I'm just wondering, is colour tone a matter of preference? I've set it to Warm as you suggested, but Standard seems to look more natural to me. That's probably because I'm just used to it, but do you think it's worth me acclimatising to Warm or is it just up to each person?

Sort of.

The goal is to get the grey scale to have no trace of color to it, but you can't really do that by eye (need a meter). The TV's color temperature is already pretty cool, so setting it to warm moves it closer to being accurate.

So if you're calibrating it to get it to technically track the most accurate, there is a correct setting. But some people just don't like warm color temperatures though, and would prefer to use the cooler white balance. It can make the image brighter and "pop" a bit more, at the expense of skewing the colors off some. If you're one of those people, that's fine.
post #828 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

Sort of.
The goal is to get the grey scale to have no trace of color to it, but you can't really do that by eye (need a meter). The TV's color temperature is already pretty cool, so setting it to warm moves it closer to being accurate.
So if you're calibrating it to get it to technically track the most accurate, there is a correct setting. But some people just don't like warm color temperatures though, and would prefer to use the cooler white balance. It can make the image brighter and "pop" a bit more, at the expense of skewing the colors off some. If you're one of those people, that's fine.

I see. I'll have to check out both settings across a different range of media and see what I like.

Sorry to keep asking questions, I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple more.

1. What are the numbers you reference when you talk about the HDMI Black Level setting? I.e:
Quote:
If your source is outputting RGB (some game consoles) Normal will then be for 0-255, and Low will be for 16-235. it should be obvious if you have it set incorrectly (it will either be washed out, or crushing blacks and whites).

2. I'm a little concerned about whether or not my TV is the exact same as yours, since mine is a local Australian variant with a 6 on the end (EH5006, as opposed to EH5000). This in itself isn't a problem, as I imagine it's just a naming quirk and the TVs look the same, but the reason I ask this is that your calibration settings list seems out of order compared to my TV. For example, you say that the TV's sizing options are located in the "Picture Options" menu, but on my TV that option isn't located in that menu and is instead located in its own menu outright. Furthermore, many of the settings mentioned on your list for the Advanced Menu are out of order (you mention Colour Space first, but that option is further down the list for me), and some aren't even mentioned at all. Is this just the way you've listed it, or is there something actually different about our sets?

3. This kind of ties into the above question, but I'm concerned about whether or not the settings I've used from you are accurate for my set. I booted up Killzone 3 and it asked me to adjust the in-game brightness slider until a specific logo was barely visible in the middle of the screen, but this logo would only appear (and I mean only JUST appear) on the very, very highest brightness settings. Anything below, in the mid-range, and in the low-range, was very black (and yes, I made sure my HDMI Black Levels were on Normal, however I did have an option called Full RBG in the PS3's menu turned ON). So my concern is this: If I need to adjust an in-game brightness slider to the maximum level in order to get the best and most accurate image that the developer intended for its game, am I really using the most optimum TV settings? On my previous TV, I'd only have to set the slider to the middle in order to barely see the logo, as required.

4. This ties into 3 slightly--what should I do with HDMI Black levels with the 360/PS3? Should I go with Expanded Ref Level/Normal HDMI Black Level on the 360? Or how about Standard Ref. Level/Low HDMI Black Level? Likewise for the PS3, should I be using Full RBG/Normal HDMI Black Level, or Limited RBG/Low HDMI Black Level?

As always, I very much appreciate and look forward to your help!
Edited by jobble9 - 12/28/12 at 5:48pm
post #829 of 2169
Hey everyone so i just bought Samsung UN32EH4003 and panel version is DH03 . are there any complains about this panel? is this panel by sharp?
post #830 of 2169
Did I read something one time on this thread about the EH5000, and maybe other models, being unable to auto-channel the clear channels on Comcast cable? I tried to get mine to do it last night and again today but it is not happening. My Panasonic small flat screen LEDLCD came up with over 60 channels in short order. Why can't the Samsung do it mad.gif ? Is there a fix for that?
post #831 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobble9 View Post

I see. I'll have to check out both settings across a different range of media and see what I like.
Sorry to keep asking questions, I hope you don't mind if I ask a couple more.

1. What are the numbers you reference when you talk about the HDMI Black Level setting? I.e:

2. I'm a little concerned about whether or not my TV is the exact same as yours, since mine is a local Australian variant with a 6 on the end (EH5006, as opposed to EH5000). This in itself isn't a problem, as I imagine it's just a naming quirk and the TVs look the same, but the reason I ask this is that your calibration settings list seems out of order compared to my TV. For example, you say that the TV's sizing options are located in the "Picture Options" menu, but on my TV that option isn't located in that menu and is instead located in its own menu outright. Furthermore, many of the settings mentioned on your list for the Advanced Menu are out of order (you mention Colour Space first, but that option is further down the list for me), and some aren't even mentioned at all. Is this just the way you've listed it, or is there something actually different about our sets?

3. This kind of ties into the above question, but I'm concerned about whether or not the settings I've used from you are accurate for my set. I booted up Killzone 3 and it asked me to adjust the in-game brightness slider until a specific logo was barely visible in the middle of the screen, but this logo would only appear (and I mean only JUST appear) on the very, very highest brightness settings. Anything below, in the mid-range, and in the low-range, was very black (and yes, I made sure my HDMI Black Levels were on Normal, however I did have an option called Full RBG in the PS3's menu turned ON). So my concern is this: If I need to adjust an in-game brightness slider to the maximum level in order to get the best and most accurate image that the developer intended for its game, am I really using the most optimum TV settings? On my previous TV, I'd only have to set the slider to the middle in order to barely see the logo, as required.

4. This ties into 3 slightly--what should I do with HDMI Black levels with the 360/PS3? Should I go with Expanded Ref Level/Normal HDMI Black Level on the 360? Or how about Standard Ref. Level/Low HDMI Black Level? Likewise for the PS3, should I be using Full RBG/Normal HDMI Black Level, or Limited RBG/Low HDMI Black Level?

As always, I very much appreciate and look forward to your help!



1) 8 bit RGB displays show 255 different values. So that's where the 0-255 comes from. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white. This is what computers render at.

Videos, whether broadcast over cable or on a disc like blu ray compress that 0-255 range down to 16-235. They remap it so that 16 becomes pure black and 235 becomes pure white (instead of 0 and 255). If the TV isn't set to look for that "limited" range, it will keep looking for blacks and whites to spread across the entire 0-255 range. This is mismatched and the picture will quality will show it.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Here is another way to think about it:

It's like trying to fit something into a box that's either too small, too big, or just right.

If the "box" (aka the TV) is too small (0-255 source signal going into a 16-235 TV) the corners get clipped off. The TV has set pure black to be at 16 even though the source is still outputting different shades all the way down to 0. The TV doesn't care though, and turns the 0-16 shades all into black. Same thing for the shades above 235 - the TV turns them all white even if there is information up there from the source. This is when you get crushed blacks and clipped whites.




If the "box" is too big (16-235 source signal into a 0-255 TV) there's a lot of wasted space that doesn't get used. This is when the blacks become dark grey and the picture washes out. The source wants the pure black to be up at 16, but the TV wants it down at 0, and the TV wins. Just like the Honey Badger, the TV doesn't care. So 16 ends up displaying as dark grey on the TV, even though the source thinks 16 is actually pure black. Result = washed out picture.



If the box is just right and a perfect fit (a 16-235 source signal going into a 16-235 TV... OR, a 0-255 source going into a 0-255 TV) it then fills up all the space perfectly without clipping any corners or having extra wasted space not being used. The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.





By the way, this ^ ("The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.") is the same premise behind basic calibration. You want to set the white point to be as as white as possible without going over and clipping highlight information and without going under and washing out. You do this by adjusting contrast. You want to set the black point to be as black/dark as possible without going too low and crushing dark information or going too high and washing out (turning blacks dark grey). You do this by adjusting brightness. You want the color range to be as colorful as possible without going too high and clipping information (highest color shades blend together instead of being distinct) or going too low and washing out the colors. You do this by adjusting color. So on and so forth. You want to fill up all of the dynamic range that the TV has, as closely as possible, without going over or under.

This basic calibration stuff you can usually do by eye. You can look at patterns and see where it starts to clip information and set it just below that level. More advanced calibration involves adjusting the accuracy of the color, the greyscale color temperature, the gamma curve, etc. These things are harder to do by eye, which is why people use meters and software to help out.


Back to the limited vs full range topic: On the Samsungs, the "Black Level" adjustment controls this range, or "box size". "Normal" sets the TV to 0-255, and "low" sets the TV to 16-235. It is only adjustable with an RGB signal, because RGB has the option of outputting at either limited range (16-235) or full range (0-255), while a YCbCr signal is always limited range. This is why the "Black Level" greys out when you have a YCbCr signal - the TV automatically sets itself to limited range as it knows YCbCr can only be limited range.

The majority of sources hooked up to a TV use the YCbCr color space by default (cable boxes, blu ray players). This is why most people will have the black level adjustment greyed out on their TV.

RGB is more likely to be used by a computer. Game consoles can use it too, but you sometimes have to go out of your way to turn it on.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________


2) I'm pretty sure I listed my settings in order, so your TV is probably different. AFAIK it's normal for TVs of different regions to have slightly different menus and settings.

3) You should be able to see leave the brightness slider at the default/middle and be able to see the "barely visible" logos. I can see them on mine with multiple games. If you've looked at the logos on multiple games and they are all not visible, something is probably set wrong.

4) For Xbox you have 3 options:
1. Set the xbox to "Color Space: RGB" + "Reference levels: Expanded" then set the TV black level to "Normal."
2. Set the xbox to "Color Space: RGB" + "Reference levels: Standard" then set the TV black level to "Low."
3. Set the xbox to "Color Space: YCbCr." The reference levels will no longer do anything, and the TV's black level will greyed out because both the xbox and TV lock in to limited range 16-235.

I personally use option 1 when playing games on the xbox. It should technically pass the 0-255 RGB range straight through to the TV with the least amount of conversion.
I have tested all three though, and when the TV and xbox are matched correctly (which they are in the above examples) they basically all look identical, which is as it should be. I can see all the brightness logos equally on all of them.

The xbox's game output is OK, but the "Video" output is kind of a buggy mess. So I would recommend watching your videos on the PS3 if possible.

I don't personally have a PS3, so I'm not too familiar with PS3 display settings, but for watching videos (blurays, etc) I think the recommend setting is YCbCr with Super White ON (without super white enabled, it clips information above 235). I'm not sure what is best for games. I would assume full RGB...Someone else more knowledgeable about PS3 would probably know.
Edited by chicolom - 1/1/13 at 6:18pm
post #832 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

1) 8 bit RGB displays show 255 different values. So that's where the 0-255 comes from. 0 is pure black and 255 is pure white. This is what computers render at.
Videos, whether broadcast over cable or on a disc like blu ray compress that 0-255 range down to 16-235. They remap it so that 16 becomes pure black and 235 becomes pure white (instead of 0 and 255). If the TV isn't set to look for that "limited" range, it will keep looking for blacks and whites to spread across the entire 0-255 range. This is mismatched and the picture will quality will show it.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is another way to think about it:
It's like trying to fit something into a box that's either too small, too big, or just right.
If the "box" (aka the TV) is too small (0-255 source signal going into a 16-235 TV) the corners get clipped off. The TV has set pure black to be at 16 even though the source is still outputting different shades all the way down to 0. The TV doesn't care though, and turns the 0-16 shades all into black. Same thing for the shades above 235 - the TV turns them all white even if there is information up there from the source. This is when you get crushed blacks and clipped whites.
If the "box" is too big (16-235 source signal into a 0-255 TV) there's a lot of wasted space that doesn't get used. This is when the blacks become dark grey and the picture washes out. The source wants the pure black to be up at 16, but the TV wants it down at 0, and the TV wins. Just like the Honey Badger, the TV doesn't care. So 16 ends up displaying as dark grey on the TV, even though the source thinks 16 is actually pure black. Result = washed out picture.
If the box is just right and a perfect fit (a 16-235 source signal going into a 16-235 TV... OR, a 0-255 source going into a 0-255 TV) it then fills up all the space perfectly without clipping any corners or having extra wasted space not being used. The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.
By the way, this ^ ("The picture uses up all the available space without going over and clipping off the corners (blacks and whites) or going under and becoming washed out.") is the same premise behind basic calibration. You want to set the white point to be as as white as possible without going over and clipping highlight information and without going under and washing out. You do this by adjusting contrast. You want to set the black point to be as black/dark as possible without going too low and crushing dark information or going too high and washing out (turning blacks dark grey). You do this by adjusting brightness. You want the color range to be as colorful as possible without going too high and clipping information (highest color shades blend together instead of being distinct) or going too low and washing out the colors. You do this by adjusting color. So on and so forth. You want to fill up all of the range that the TV has as closely as possible without going over or under.
This basic calibration stuff you can usually do by eye. You can look at patterns and see where it starts to clip information and set it just below that level. More advanced calibration involves adjusting the accuracy of the color, the greyscale color temperature, the gamma curve, etc. These things are harder to do by eye, which is why people use meters and software to help out.
Back to the limited vs full range topic: On the Samsungs, the "Black Level" adjustment controls this range, or "box size". "Normal" sets the TV to 0-255, and "low" sets the TV to 16-235. It is only adjustable with an RGB signal, because RGB has the option of outputting at either limited range (16-235) or full range (0-255), while a YCbCr signal is always limited range. This is why the "Black Level" greys out when you have a YCbCr signal - the TV automatically sets itself to limited range as it knows YCbCr can only be limited range.
The majority of sources hooked up to a TV use the YCbCr color space by default (cable boxes, blu ray players). Like I said earlier, "Video" is mastered at 16-235 and "Video" includes, television and movies. This is why most people will have this adjustment greyed out on their Samsung TV.
RGB is more likely to be used by a computer. Game consoles can use it too, but you sometimes have to go out of your way to turn it on.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
2) I'm pretty sure I listed my settings in order, so your TV is probably different. AFAIK it's normal for TVs of different regions to have slightly different menus and settings.
3) You should be able to see leave the brightness slider at the default/middle and be able to see the "barely visible" logos. I can see them on mine with multiple games. If you've looked at the logos on multiple games and they are all not visible, something is probably set wrong.
4) For Xbox you have 3 options:
1. Set the xbox to "Color Space: RGB" + "Reference levels: Expanded" then set the TV black level to "Normal."
2. Set the xbox to "Color Space: RGB" + "Reference levels: Standard" then set the TV black level to "Low."
3. Set the xbox to "Color Space: YCbCr." The reference levels will no longer do anything, and the TV's black level will greyed out because both the xbox and TV lock in to limited range 16-235.
I personally use option 1 when playing games on the xbox. It should technically pass the 0-255 RGB range straight through to the TV with the least amount of conversion.
I have tested all three through and when the TV and xbox are matched correctly (which they are in the above examples) they basically all look identical, which is as it should be. I can see all the brightness logos equally on all of them.
The xbox's game output is OK, but the "Video" output is kind of a buggy mess. So I would recommend watching your videos on the PS3 if possible.
I don't personally have a PS3, so I'm not too familiar with PS3 display settings, but for watching videos (blurays, etc) I think the recommend setting is YCbCr with Super White ON (without super white enabled, it clips information above 235). I'm not sure what is best for games. I would assume full RGB...Someone else more knowledgeable about PS3 would probably know.

Wow, thanks so much for taking the time to explain all that to me! I've now set the reference levels and HDMI black levels accordingly.

As for question number 3, I've tried a few other games and it still seems that I need to drastically increase the in-game brightness sliders to just barely see what I'm meant to be seeing (the alternative is to put the TV at a bad viewing angle, which also causes the blacks to be less intense :P). This is confusing because I'm using the exact same settings as you... so I'm not sure what to do. Perhaps we can compare games? One game I know of that has a clear-to-read slider is the Mark of The Ninja trial from XBLA. Perhaps you could download it and we could compare? For me the ninja is only barely visible at the 44-50 mark on the game's slider. What about you? (Unless you have a different game which you know of that you would like to compare instead).

That said, I've tried Dead Space 2, Resident Evil 5 and Battlefield 3, and weirdly they are the opposite; their logos are visible on the default in-game brightness setting, and are still just barely visible even on the lowest brightness settings.

I guess this raises an interesting question about what constitutes as "barely visible", because in that sense of the word, the above 3 games have "barely visible" logos that are "barely" visible on any end of the brightness scale, whilst others almost aren't at all. But either way, I'd be interested to see if you received the same result as I did in that Mark of the Ninja game, at least.

Then there's this... I've tried using this image to help test the full range for my TV (http://www.nicolaspeople.com/ch3rokeesblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fullrgb_test.jpg) on my 360 and the top two rows are entirely black when viewing it. Interestingly, when on Expanded Ref. Levels and Normal HDMI Black Levels, increasing the TV's brightness even to 100 resulted in the top two rows still being indistinguishable, whilst increasing the brightness to 100 when on Ref. Levels at Standard and HDMI Black Levels at Low caused the top two rows to eventually become visible. Finally, setting Ref. Levels to Standard and Black Levels to Normal resulted in the most washed out image as you'd expect, but also made all squares distinguishable with no brightness changes necessary. I don't understand why I'm not getting the detail I should be, so here's hoping you can provide some context.

At any rate, it's all pretty darn confusing to me! It seems as though I'm getting good blacks at the cost of losing some detail in some parts, even when following your specs strictly--or at least that's my non-technical perception of it. Any further help is, again, appreciated.
Edited by jobble9 - 12/29/12 at 6:44am
post #833 of 2169
I've picked up a UN32EH4003FXZA and have been unable to confirm where the panel is from (searched the thread but looks like my version has not been identified yet). Looking at version EH01 and the type from the service panel is 32B6AHOD. Can someone shed some light on who makes this panel? I'm thinking about returning for the 5000 series for 1080p and a better panel if needed.
post #834 of 2169
you will have to increase the backlight and the brightness levels. i had the same "problem" but after adjusting those settings itll be alot better
post #835 of 2169
Does anyone know if vertical banding is caused by the panel or the backlight it self?
post #836 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobble9 View Post

Wow, thanks so much for taking the time to explain all that to me! I've now set the reference levels and HDMI black levels accordingly.

As for question number 3, I've tried a few other games and it still seems that I need to drastically increase the in-game brightness sliders to just barely see what I'm meant to be seeing (the alternative is to put the TV at a bad viewing angle, which also causes the blacks to be less intense :P). This is confusing because I'm using the exact same settings as you... so I'm not sure what to do. Perhaps we can compare games? One game I know of that has a clear-to-read slider is the Mark of The Ninja trial from XBLA. Perhaps you could download it and we could compare? For me the ninja is only barely visible at the 44-50 mark on the game's slider. What about you? (Unless you have a different game which you know of that you would like to compare instead).

That said, I've tried Dead Space 2, Resident Evil 5 and Battlefield 3, and weirdly they are the opposite; their logos are visible on the default in-game brightness setting, and are still just barely visible even on the lowest brightness settings.

I guess this raises an interesting question about what constitutes as "barely visible", because in that sense of the word, the above 3 games have "barely visible" logos that are "barely" visible on any end of the brightness scale, whilst others almost aren't at all. But either way, I'd be interested to see if you received the same result as I did in that Mark of the Ninja game, at least.

Then there's this... I've tried using this image to help test the full range for my TV (http://www.nicolaspeople.com/ch3rokeesblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/fullrgb_test.jpg) on my 360 and the top two rows are entirely black when viewing it. Interestingly, when on Expanded Ref. Levels and Normal HDMI Black Levels, increasing the TV's brightness even to 100 resulted in the top two rows still being indistinguishable, whilst increasing the brightness to 100 when on Ref. Levels at Standard and HDMI Black Levels at Low caused the top two rows to eventually become visible. Finally, setting Ref. Levels to Standard and Black Levels to Normal resulted in the most washed out image as you'd expect, but also made all squares distinguishable with no brightness changes necessary. I don't understand why I'm not getting the detail I should be, so here's hoping you can provide some context.

At any rate, it's all pretty darn confusing to me! It seems as though I'm getting good blacks at the cost of losing some detail in some parts, even when following your specs strictly--or at least that's my non-technical perception of it. Any further help is, again, appreciated.

I remember playing the mark of the ninja trial and the logo being really dark. I would say that game's brightness adjustment is unusual and an outlier, because it seemed too dark unless I turned it up a lot.

It sounds like the other games you mentioned are showing up correctly, right?

Ignore the results from testing that image on the xbox. Like I said in my last post, the xbox's system video player is buggy, and the system picture viewer is also buggy. Neither of them work correctly with an RGB full range signal (expanded). They clip information above 235 and below 16. RGB full range only works correctly when the xbox is rendering actual games. So you can't the video player or picture viewer to calibrate anything, over RGB full range at least. The system video player behaves better when set to YCbCr color space.

Games are all inconsistent in their brightness adjustments so If I were you, I would a basic calibration with AVS HD 709 using the xbox:

1) Download this to your computer > http://www.wuala.com/alluringreality/Public/MP4-2c.exe
2) Also download the patterns manual, which will explain how to use it. > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8968806/Patterns-Manual.pdf
3) Copy the "Basic Settings" folder onto a jump drive, then plug it into the Xbox. You can also copy the "Misc Patterns/A - Additional" folder too.
4) Set the xbox to "YCbCr 709" color space, then go to the system video player and browse to the "Basic Settings" folder on the jump drive and go through the different patterns, following along in the Patterns Manual PDF to see how to set it.

(You won't be able to set every pattern perfectly since there is no perfect display. I had to make some small compromises in my settings in order to remove the pink tint from the white balance.)

When your finished you can go back and set the xbox to RGB expanded if you want. Like I said before, RGB expanded + TV black level "normal" should look essentially identical to YCbCr 709 wants your in a game (it does on mine).
post #837 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichJr View Post

I've picked up a UN32EH4003FXZA and have been unable to confirm where the panel is from (searched the thread but looks like my version has not been identified yet). Looking at version EH01 and the type from the service panel is 32B6AHOD. Can someone shed some light on who makes this panel? I'm thinking about returning for the 5000 series for 1080p and a better panel if needed.

Are you getting any backlight bleed? I have some weird issue where I see very faint vertical lines every 1/2 inch or so.. running up and down the entire screen. They're noticeable while playing a dark game or viewing dark scenes during a movie.. but they are very annoying. The picture looks fine to me but I'm going to exchange it for another. I know with my luck I'm going to get a tv with backlight bleed or some other weird issues. Samsung is definitely using different panels in this model. We have another one that has terrible viewing angles. If you move your head anywhere else away from direct center you get some weird brownish tint over the whole screen. rude. l
post #838 of 2169
Backlight bleeding should be extremely rare on these models due to the way they are made and can be considered a defect if they have any.
post #839 of 2169
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

I remember playing the mark of the ninja trial and the logo being really dark. I would say that game's brightness adjustment is unusual and an outlier, because it seemed too dark unless I turned it up a lot.
It sounds like the other games you mentioned are showing up correctly, right?
Ignore the results from testing that image on the xbox. Like I said in my last post, the xbox's system video player is buggy, and the system picture viewer is also buggy. Neither of them work correctly with an RGB full range signal (expanded). They clip information above 235 and below 16. RGB full range only works correctly when the xbox is rendering actual games. So you can't the video player or picture viewer to calibrate anything, over RGB full range at least. The system video player behaves better when set to YCbCr color space.
Games are all inconsistent in their brightness adjustments so If I were you, I would a basic calibration with AVS HD 709 using the xbox:
1) Download this to your computer > http://www.wuala.com/alluringreality/Public/MP4-2c.exe
2) Also download the patterns manual, which will explain how to use it. > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8968806/Patterns-Manual.pdf
3) Copy the "Basic Settings" folder onto a jump drive, then plug it into the Xbox. You can also copy the "Misc Patterns/A - Additional" folder too.
4) Set the xbox to "YCbCr 709" color space, then go to the system video player and browse to the "Basic Settings" folder on the jump drive and go through the different patterns, following along in the Patterns Manual PDF to see how to set it.
(You won't be able to set every pattern perfectly since there is no perfect display. I had to make some small compromises in my settings in order to remove the pink tint from the white balance.)
When your finished you can go back and set the xbox to RGB expanded if you want. Like I said before, RGB expanded + TV black level "normal" should look essentially identical to YCbCr 709 wants your in a game (it does on mine).

Again, many thanks for your continuted help, Chicolom. I'd be pretty stressed without your assistance!

Yes it seems most other games besides Mark of The Ninja aren't giving me too much flak when it comes to their brightness sliders. I must say though that even though you've just explained that Mark of The Ninja is a bit of an outlier I'd still be curious to hear at what exact point the ninja becomes visible for you for comparison purposes (only if possible and if it doesn't take up too much of your time, of course :-)) Since it displays a clear number on its brightness slider I thought it'd be a good test case.

--

Anyway, I went through the software as you've advised and I found that, for the most part, everything seemed to be working as intended using your settings (on Movie mode), and that only very minor adjustments were made, e.g: Tint: putting it back on the default 50/50 seemed most accurate in matching the flashing blue squares, Contrast: adding 1 increment for flavour, and Brightness: 1 increment for flavour.

However in the Misc A folder, A1 Grayscale Ramp, although I was able to see a distinction across the whole range of the scale, I couldn't notice a change beyond the dotted lines to show where black (16) and white (235) is (beyond the lines, black became fully crushed and seemed like one-shade). In A2 Grayscale Steps, the blacks below 16 were also indistinguishable as before although the whites above 235 were distinguishable (on 46 Brightness and on Movie Mode, to reiterate). Interestingly, at 63 brightness the blacks below 16 did become distinguishable, but at the result of a more washed out image. Based on this, what do you believe is the correct solution, if there is any required?

I also tried the same calibration on my PS3 (for reference, I've got the PS3's "RBG Full" option turned on, which is likeable to the 360's Expanded Ref. Level I believe, as well as Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White turned on) and it was mostly similar...However in this case, even when adjusting the brightness on the Grayscale Steps in the Misc A Folder, the blacks below 16 all blended together and were indistinguishable even up to a brightness setting of 100. Also, all of the non-essential whites (235-253) in the White Clipping test would not display, even with Super-White turned on. I know you don't use a PS3, but do you know why it wouldn't be displaying these even with RBG Full turned, HDMI Black Level set at Normal, and Super-White turned on?

--

Anyway, as you can probably tell, I'm rather new to all of this, being the first time I've really seriously looked at getting my TV properly calibrated. I'm now mainly concerned with ensuring that I don't have crushed blacks when gaming on this TV and that I'm getting all the detail I'm meant to when it comes to dark scenes. Since this is the first time I've owned a TV with blacks as good as this one, I'm having a hard time being able to distinguish what's a good black and what's not and when I'm losing black detail, so if you can offer any more help in this area as we go along, please do! smile.gif
Edited by jobble9 - 12/30/12 at 4:21am
post #840 of 2169
Folks - any idea why could the 'Support --> Self Diagnosis --> Reset' button be disabled (greyed out) on the UN40EH5300 Menu. When I click on 'Reset' anyways I get a 'This function isn't available' popup.

Spoke to Samsung service rep - he is asking me to start a service request, but I thought I will ask you guys first.

Thanks,
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