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55VT30 vs 55UT50? (dont like filters) - Page 2

post #31 of 55
Hey, get the UT50 then! It's still going to be a great set, and if reflections aren't an issue, then no problem!
post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Hey, get the UT50 then! It's still going to be a great set, and if reflections aren't an issue, then no problem!

Best advise I've read yet!


Ian
post #33 of 55
Someone really should calibrate and review the UT50 to put an end to all the speculation. Even if the ST50 is significantly better, it would be nice to know how the UT50 stacks up against other brand plasmas (and LCDs).

I even wonder about the U50 which is a step lower, but I doubt we'll get a review on that one.
post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

They are both G15 progressive panels, "infinite black pro" just relates to the filter. Also, the st50 having the additional 'neoplasma' moniker. What that entails i'm not sure, just the additional filter?

Well for that matter the spec sheet for the bottom of the barrel 720p X5 series states that it also has a G15 Progressive panel, but it's obviously not the same panel as used on the ST50. All that line means is that all of the 2012 models use 15th generation panel technology, and they're progressive scan, which is correct.

On the UT50/ST50/GT50/VT50 the core naked panel (before any electronic circuitry is added) is supposedly the same, with the difference being in the onboard drive circuitry and type of filter. NeoPlasma is much more than just the panel - it's also the electronics and software and filters that make it Neo.
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Guys I retract my statement of the picture blacking out on the sides. The display was setup beside an LCD (4 total) showing off 3D content with glasses. So it was below my eyes when I checked it. I did look down when I checked. The picture posted above suggests it looks good from normal level even at extreme angles. For that I apologize.

I'm rather glad you posted that pic because it put most (if not all) of my worries aside about the ST50. Will go check it out one more time and probably pull the trigger on it.

Thank God make sure you are looking at the St50. Your concerns gave me concerns about pulling the trigger.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

On the UT50/ST50/GT50/VT50 the core naked panel (before any electronic circuitry is added) is supposedly the same, with the difference being in the onboard drive circuitry and type of filter. NeoPlasma is much more than just the panel - it's also the electronics and software and filters that make it Neo.

Thanks for the clarification and details on that. I just want to know the MLL of the UT50 so I can extrapolate the data for my needs from there out, but professional reviewers are running from it like the plague.
post #37 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlmalone1 View Post

Thanks for the clarification and details on that. I just want to know the MLL of the UT50 so I can extrapolate the data for my needs from there out, but professional reviewers are running from it like the plague.

I don't know why because in my opinion the blacks looked the same to me as the ST50. Like I said earlier.. I'll go so far as to say it actually has a clearer, more vibrant picture due to a non-intrusive filter. I totally understand why most would want that filter as it really does work. But as a Kuro owner, I found the UT50 picture to be more 'raw' if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't be surprised if it matched the MLL of the ST50, if not come extremely close.
post #38 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

Thank God make sure you are looking at the St50. Your concerns gave me concerns about pulling the trigger.

Yes I would looking at the ST50. Went back and saw it again, as well as another one to confirm. I still stand by having poor angles from above. You just can't look down on them. But you wouldn't place it below you anyway so that doesn't matter. From the sides were better now that I saw one placed higher on the wall but it still had a darker picture then all others. This doesn't matter either since it'll be plenty bright in your home.

I'll edit my original posts.
post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

Thank God make sure you are looking at the St50. Your concerns gave me concerns about pulling the trigger.

You aren't going to do it. You've said you want to at least 20 times, but recently you said you were going to wait for prices to go down. My mom used to say **** or get off the pot. LOL!

I have one, it is by far the best TV I have ever owned, and that's that.

My 60" ST will get eye-burning bright.
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

My 60" ST will get eye-burning bright.

I just caught this guy leaving TornadoTJ's house!







Ian
post #41 of 55
Haha!
post #42 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post


My 60" ST will get eye-burning bright.

It was never the brightness in question. I don't like filters because in most cases it reduces clarity. Like having goo smeared on the screen.. only a brighter goo. I can't say for certain if the ST50 is like this as I haven't seen one in a dark room but I'd love to.

The ST50 is being praised so I'll just take their word for it.
post #43 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

I just caught this guy leaving TornadoTJ's house!


Ian

Thanks for the laugh.
post #44 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

It was never the brightness in question. I don't like filters because in most cases it reduces clarity. Like having goo smeared on the screen.. only a brighter goo. I can't say for certain if the ST50 is like this as I haven't seen one in a dark room but I'd love to.

The ST50 is being praised so I'll just take their word for it.

I also dislike AR filters. For me I'm used to something having a "normal reflection" and I can automatically ignore them. With an AR filter the subdued and off color reflections just make them stand out to me. I still use a CRT for my PC monitor and still use CRT TVs so I guess I just expect reflections.

That said the ST50's AR filter is pretty good, you can't tell it's there for the most part and it doesn't bug me like other AR filters do.

Oh and the ST50 is bright bight bright. I can't imagine someone running max brightness on this thing, much less needing a TV capable of even more brightness.
post #45 of 55
Thread Starter 
Iron Condor- That's the kinda answer I was looking for. I also use CRTs including a 24" FW900, 21" G520, 34XBR960, etc so I know exactly what you mean. Nothing beats pure glass screen with minimal AR filters. Like you, I expect to see reflections and it never bothered me since it's a matter of pulling the blinds. I can't imagine critical blu-ray viewing in the daytime anyway so I could care less how much it reflects.

The ability for a screen to reflect only means it's gonna be that much more vibrant with the lights out. Ppl claim that the louver filter subdues the lighting in your room. Yeah well, that subdued look is obvious. Now instead of a lamp I see a lamp smeared across the screen. No thanks.

Brightness is subjective since even a matte screen can be bright. You can dial up brightness settings on anything. That's not what I'm after. What your telling me is that it looks good (coming from a CRT fan says something) even with the AR filter. I'll keep that in mind.
post #46 of 55
PathofNeo-

The brightness comment was just a general agreement that the TV is quite bright. As for the AR filter on the ST, I think if you go in a store, turn off the TV, and then look at the reflections you'll get a better idea of how the filter looks. Maybe bring a small flashlight or use a camera phone flash to test it and other TVs.

The ST still shows reflections normally. I can clearly make out all of the things in the room reflected in the TV, nothing is distorted. If I were to shine a flashlight directly on the screen, it doesn't noticeably distort the reflection or the color of the light, it just makes it so I can't blind my self with the reflection.
post #47 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

The ST still shows reflections normally. I can clearly make out all of the things in the room reflected in the TV, nothing is distorted. If I were to shine a flashlight directly on the screen, it doesn't noticeably distort the reflection or the color of the light, it just makes it so I can't blind my self with the reflection.

I guess I was paranoid since I thought such a filter would reduce picture quality. I figured if something was strong enough to reduce light then PQ must take a hit. Evidently I'm uneducated in how filters work.
post #48 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Iron Condor- That's the kinda answer I was looking for. I also use CRTs including a 24" FW900, 21" G520, 34XBR960, etc so I know exactly what you mean. Nothing beats pure glass screen with minimal AR filters. Like you, I expect to see reflections and it never bothered me since it's a matter of pulling the blinds. I can't imagine critical blu-ray viewing in the daytime anyway so I could care less how much it reflects.

But your room will never be dark when you watch a movie.

Light is emitted by the display itself and this light will be reflected back to the panel!

This means:

a) Real world ANSI is lessened without AR filter

b) You will see yourself and the furniture mirrored
post #49 of 55
Thread Starter 
From what I've seen that's not true. I've owned several displays that looked like a mirror. These would include a Samsung 46A950, 34XBR960, Kuro, as well as glossy LCDs for computer use that I can part my hair with on or off. I can't think of any panel more reflective than the 46A950 and it never reflected back onto it with the lights out.

Have you actually tested this yourself? I will reserve judgement with the UT50 until I see one in the dark for myself but I have my doubts about that one.
post #50 of 55
I have a 5020FD and I know that it does have an AR filter on it, and a pretty good one at that, though day time viewing can still get problematic if there is a lot of light. If you don't mind the AR on the 5020FD then I don't think it should bother you on the ST. However I did see the UT50 and I would say that it have very good pop to it.
post #51 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

I have a 5020FD and I know that it does have an AR filter on it, and a pretty good one at that, though day time viewing can still get problematic if there is a lot of light. If you don't mind the AR on the 5020FD then I don't think it should bother you on the ST. However I did see the UT50 and I would say that it have very good pop to it.

I have a 5020FD. I don't mind the AR filter on that one. I can actually walk around and it's just as bright and clear at any area of the room. Guys I don't know maybe I need to go to another store to see a different model but the 55ST50 that I saw had a very obvious filter. It looked like it was losing 20% focus or something. Other than that it was fine.
post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

I guess I was paranoid since I thought such a filter would reduce picture quality. I figured if something was strong enough to reduce light then PQ must take a hit. Evidently I'm uneducated in how filters work.

The AR filter basically reduces glare. It just changes the way the light from certain angles is reflected off the screen as to not reach the viewer. It is likely similar to the ones you can get on eyeglasses. The TV is still reflective, it isn't THAT different from a non-AR TV like people make it sound.

There are some filters that are kinda cheap and those are probably the ones you are sensitive to. I was just telling you that the ST50's filter seems to be of good quality.

Edit: You WILL notice the filter if you are above or below the TV viewing at a significant angle (not side to side). If this is an issue, like for high mounted sets, then it is a legitimate concern.
post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

From what I've seen that's not true. I've owned several displays that looked like a mirror. These would include a Samsung 46A950, 34XBR960, Kuro, as well as glossy LCDs for computer use that I can part my hair with on or off. I can't think of any panel more reflective than the 46A950 and it never reflected back onto it with the lights out.

Have you actually tested this yourself? I will reserve judgement with the UT50 until I see one in the dark for myself but I have my doubts about that one.

Yes I have unfortunately! And my LG PK350 is driving me nuts in this regards. It was just yesterday, that I saw my yelllow curtains in the dark hair of Rachel Weisz in the movie "Whistleblower".

So I would never recommend someone a TV without an AR filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

The TV is still reflective, it isn't THAT different from a non-AR TV like people make it sound.

Oh yes, it is!

My old S10 plasma never annoyed me, but the PK350 does.
post #54 of 55
Those LG plasmas are mirrors; the Panasonics are not as reflective as LG, even the UT50 is no where near that bad.
post #55 of 55
Thread Starter 
Guys I just want to say that we now have an Official Panasonic UT50 Series Discussion Thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=ut50 so we can let this one die out.

Thanks for supporting my thread though!
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