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Recommended 5.1 Speaker Budget/Brands/Models for My HT? - Page 2

post #31 of 59
4/28/12 at 1:21pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions. The Klipschs definitely take up way too much real estate for my set-up, and 3 of them across the front would result in a quick divorce. The Triads look like decent enough speakers, but what would they offer over comparable Salks or Monitor Audio (or B&W or Spendor ....)?

I think I'm definitely leaning toward a DefTech Mythos-based system. From what I've researched so far, they offer great HT performance, at least good music performance, a small footprint (including fewer boxes with the integrated subs), and awesome and unusual styling (beautiful to my eyes). They are also something different/esoteric compared to all these other typical wooden, boxy speakers. Finally, the price will be closer to $7,500 than $10,000 so I could save money to boot.

I'm going to try to audtion more stuff, but I have to say the majority of the dealers I've visited or approached so far have been lousy! I hope it's not like this everywhwere.

I'd still welcome attempts to talk me out of DefTech and into something else, however. I'm learning a lot here.

- JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

For an HT system, you really should not worry about the bass response of the speakers. The sub/subs should be handling 80hz and down. If you want an HT system that can provide clean dynamics, then look at speakers with higher sensitivity. With your budget, I would look at the Heritage line by Klipsch. Three Klipsch La Scala II's across the front would make for a great system for HT and music. If you have not heard the Heritage line, you really should. Another good choice would be Triad Gold LCR's or Gold Monitors. If you truly wanted a system that is stellar with HT and music, you could start piecing together a system using Triad Platinum.

As far as subs go, you can place two subs side by side or stack them. If you would like to discuss this farther, shoot us an email.
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post #32 of 59
4/28/12 at 2:13pm
Everything about your planned setup sounds good for your situation, except the sub part. The built in subs will work well for music, but they're not going to cut it for high quality HT. You can find high performance subs with a smaller footprint if you are short on floor space. The sub is one aspect that should not be sacrificed.

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/cylinder/pc13-ultra

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=891

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15.html

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html
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post #33 of 59
4/28/12 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Everything about your planned setup sounds good for your situation, except the sub part. The built in subs will work well for music, but they're not going to cut it for high quality HT. You can find high performance subs with a smaller footprint if you are short on floor space. The sub is one aspect that should not be sacrificed.

+1

Spend some time researching on the AVS subwoofer forum and seek recommendations there. It's worth doing for this nice system you are putting together
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post #34 of 59
4/29/12 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for the input, guys. Would your advice on an additional seperate sub change at all if I went with another pair of STs as the rear surrounds? How about with a pair of the smaller STS towers as surrounds?

If I did want to mix in a seperate sub with the STs, would I be able to run line-level LFE outs from my SC-57 AVR to all three speakers? If not, I guess the best approach would be to run the LFE line-out to the standalone sub and just run speaker cable out to the STs and have them set to LARGE in the AVR/MCACC?

- JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

+1

Spend some time researching on the AVS subwoofer forum and seek recommendations there. It's worth doing for this nice system you are putting together
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post #35 of 59
4/29/12 at 9:58am
The subs in the Mythos ST are poor performers for HT. They roll off sharply starting at 30hz. Look at the third graph on this page; the sub response is in red. They are a decent design for music listening, not HT usage. People on the AVS subwoofer forum recommend you shoot for solid performance down to 20hz; lot of your best bass effects in movies come from 20hz to 30hz.

On the other hand, check out the tested frequency response of the Rythmik FV15HP (look at the first graph). See how it's fairly flat to 20hz? And even from there, rolls off a little less steeply when in the 1 port open mode (the black)? Another one to look at is the SVS PB13 ULtra. Look at how deep it goes in 15hz mode. Plus, those Mythos STs have 10" subs. Two of them are not going to produce the SPL output of even one good 12" sub (which there are 12" options, too, that could work for your room).

I have also heard of people who have stopped using powered subs that are built in to speakers once they get a good separate sub; they either don't add anything significant or are too difficult to integrate in well with the main sub. So if you want to buy the Mythos STs, don't do so for the subs. Personally, I think that they are overpriced for what you get for HT for this reason. I'd to with the Salks that have been discussed in this thread for that reason and because they have a much better reputation for overall SQ.
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post #36 of 59
4/29/12 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks again for the input, guys. Would your advice on an additional seperate sub change at all if I went with another pair of STs as the rear surrounds? How about with a pair of the smaller STS towers as surrounds?

If I did want to mix in a seperate sub with the STs, would I be able to run line-level LFE outs from my SC-57 AVR to all three speakers? If not, I guess the best approach would be to run the LFE line-out to the standalone sub and just run speaker cable out to the STs and have them set to LARGE in the AVR/MCACC?

- JD

That's all you have to do. You can try them set to large or small and see how it sounds. Usually small performs best regardless of the speakers. These speakers are still going to perform better then the Mythos 10 because the mids are steeply crossed over at 150hz which cleans them up, and allows the woofer to improve mid bass impact.
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post #37 of 59
4/30/12 at 6:22am
Thread Starter 
OK - the message is finally sinking in about the need for a seperate sub for HT. Even Joe from DefTech, who posts on the Mythos forum, recommended an additional sub for the STs. Which I found a little surprising because it seems to me the requirement for a standalone sub negates a lot of the arguments for having integrated subs in the towers?!?!? Plus he's an employee and has an incentive to sell me an extra box (which I completely understand).

I don't think I need 3 boxes pushing out solid bass down to 30 Hz in my set-up. On the other hand, if I got the STs and a seperate sub and used a typical 80 Hz crossover, what benefit would I be getting from the STs integrated subs? I'm guessing not much.

Just for the heck of it - Are there any DefTech separate subs any of you guys think are OK? I'll also check out the subs forum and see if there are any DefTech recommendations there.

Argh - I almost feel like I'm back to square 1!

-JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The subs in the Mythos ST are poor performers for HT. They roll off sharply starting at 30hz. Look at the third graph on this page; the sub response is in red. They are a decent design for music listening, not HT usage. People on the AVS subwoofer forum recommend you shoot for solid performance down to 20hz; lot of your best bass effects in movies come from 20hz to 30hz.

On the other hand, check out the tested frequency response of the Rythmik FV15HP (look at the first graph). See how it's fairly flat to 20hz? And even from there, rolls off a little less steeply when in the 1 port open mode (the black)? Another one to look at is the SVS PB13 ULtra. Look at how deep it goes in 15hz mode. Plus, those Mythos STs have 10" subs. Two of them are not going to produce the SPL output of even one good 12" sub (which there are 12" options, too, that could work for your room).

I have also heard of people who have stopped using powered subs that are built in to speakers once they get a good separate sub; they either don't add anything significant or are too difficult to integrate in well with the main sub. So if you want to buy the Mythos STs, don't do so for the subs. Personally, I think that they are overpriced for what you get for HT for this reason. I'd to with the Salks that have been discussed in this thread for that reason and because they have a much better reputation for overall SQ.
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post #38 of 59
4/30/12 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Just for the heck of it - Are there any DefTech separate subs any of you guys think are OK? I'll also check out the subs forum and see if there are any DefTech recommendations there.

There's no reason in terms of audio quality to match the sub to the speakers.

And you won't find recommendations for Def Tech subs on the AVS subwoofer forum because (a) Def Tech subs are small and typically just don't have great output for HT usage (Def Tech overstates their specs) and (b) the best sub values come from the popular Internet direct sub vendors such as SVS, Epik, HSU, Outlaw Audio, and Rythmik. Traditional speaker company subwoofers tend to be grossly over priced; typically you need to get them at at least half off MSRP to match up to the price/performance quality of those ID vendors.

Start by reading this post, and then seek recommendations.
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post #39 of 59
4/30/12 at 10:57am
I'd back that up. Talk to the folks in the sub forum, but in my opinion, specialization is good in this area - let separate subs do the work down low, let your speakers do the work in the areas where they are better.

Since you're not trying to match tweeters, etc., but are delegating responsibility for the whole 80 Hz and below to the sub, there is no need to have any match of manufacturer, brand or model(s).

So with subs you are free to choose the best available for the price. To me, that is the sub manufacturers already noted.
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post #40 of 59
4/30/12 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

OK - the message is finally sinking in about the need for a seperate sub for HT. Even Joe from DefTech, who posts on the Mythos forum, recommended an additional sub for the STs. Which I found a little surprising because it seems to me the requirement for a standalone sub negates a lot of the arguments for having integrated subs in the towers?!?!? Plus he's an employee and has an incentive to sell me an extra box (which I completely understand).

I don't think I need 3 boxes pushing out solid bass down to 30 Hz in my set-up. On the other hand, if I got the STs and a seperate sub and used a typical 80 Hz crossover, what benefit would I be getting from the STs integrated subs? I'm guessing not much.

Just for the heck of it - Are there any DefTech separate subs any of you guys think are OK? I'll also check out the subs forum and see if there are any DefTech recommendations there.

Argh - I almost feel like I'm back to square 1!

-JD


I covered that in the post right before your post. Comparing to the Mythos 10 because it has the same MTM array

Quote:


These speakers are still going to perform better then the Mythos 10 because the mids are steeply crossed over at 150hz which cleans them up, and allows the woofer to improve mid bass impact.

How audible that will that be to you, and is it worth twice the money is another question.
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post #41 of 59
4/30/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Just for the heck of it - Are there any DefTech separate subs any of you guys think are OK? I'll also check out the subs forum and see if there are any DefTech recommendations there.

Argh - I almost feel like I'm back to square 1!

You are going around in a circle!
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post #42 of 59
5/2/12 at 1:40pm
Thread Starter 
Ok - I'm switching gears again. I know I'll probably get a lot of flack for this but I'm now considering a Monitor Audio Gold or Silver 5.1 system. I know I'm likely going to overpay compared to the net seller brands, but in my defence, I am in Canada and would have to deal with sales taxes and customs hassles.

For either system, I think I'd use the Gold sub, the GWX-15. How would it compare to the various sub net seller brands you've been recommending in terms of peroformance (forget about price)?

Thanks,
JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I covered that in the post right before your post. Comparing to the Mythos 10 because it has the same MTM array



How audible that will that be to you, and is it worth twice the money is another question.
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post #43 of 59
5/2/12 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

For either system, I think I'd use the Gold sub, the GWX-15. How would it compare to the various sub net seller brands you've been recommending in terms of peroformance (forget about price)?

Terrible for HT. The low end -3db point was found by Hometheater.com to be 39hz
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post #44 of 59
5/2/12 at 1:50pm
Time to throw something else into the fire.

If the looks of a boxy sub are an issue, there are cylindrical subs like these which are good performers and might fit into your space / life more easily. They are tall, but may be a better fit.

Good subs, though - something else to consider. This one goes to 16Hz +/- 3db at 1000 watts RMS and measures 47" high, ~17" diameter. It would be a lot better than the built in mythos subs for HT.
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post #45 of 59
5/2/12 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

For either system, I think I'd use the Gold sub, the GWX-15. How would it compare to the various sub net seller brands you've been recommending in terms of peroformance (forget about price)?

Funky Waves in Canada
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw12_x
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_15_1

SVS in Canada
www.sonicboomaudio.com
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post #46 of 59
5/3/12 at 7:08am
Thread Starter 
Cool - I didn't SVS would have a Canadian distributor. Looks like I can save a few bucks too. I'll definitely check it out.

Thanks,
JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

Funky Waves in Canada
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw12_x
http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_15_1

SVS in Canada
www.sonicboomaudio.com
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post #47 of 59
5/3/12 at 9:14am
Check out Funky Waves, too. They have a fantastic reputation for making excellent subs. They also have a lot of interesting finishes and designs, which might make them a better fit aesthetically with your room.
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post #48 of 59
5/4/12 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 
Hi All:

I've come up with another (hopefully last) candidate: Anthony Gallo Acoustics. I remembered I had heard the fronts (Reference 3.5s) last year when I had been looking for a TV, and had been very impressed with the sound. And the wife had been wowed by their looks!

These are very esoterically styled speakers for which it would be difficult to integrate another brand of subwoofer (from a looks perspective). And I'm guessing the Gallo subwoofers would not get rave reviews here.

So what do you think of the Gallo subs?
1) TR-3d
2) Classico CL-S 12"

- JD

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Check out Funky Waves, too. They have a fantastic reputation for making excellent subs. They also have a lot of interesting finishes and designs, which might make them a better fit aesthetically with your room.
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post #49 of 59
5/4/12 at 8:35am
Sorry. I don't know.

But why are you determined to buy the same subwoofer brand as the speakers? It should be possible to find a very good sub that will match aesthetically with whatever speakers you choose. For example, I think the high gloss piano black finish of the Rythmik D15SE or the SVS PB12-Plus with the piano black gloss would go well with the metallic finish of some of the Gallo speakers. Sometimes the right kind of contrast makes for an excellent aesthetic.
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post #50 of 59
5/4/12 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
It's more laziness and unease than determination. And it would be an easier sell to my better half ("Look honey, it was all designed to go together and match in terms of styling!").

If the company making the fronts, etc., also made a good sub (comparable to the net seller brands in terms of performance and quality), although I'd likely take a bit of a hit on price, it would just be easier to get everything as 1 complete set from the same source. No fuss, no muss.

I agree about the opporutnity to match different brands and still get decent styling, generally, but if you've seen those Gallo 3.5 towers, a standard box sub just isn't going to be a good match aesthetically.

Knowing I can get the SVS subs from a Canadian source has really opened-up my options though, overall.

Cheers,
JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Sorry. I don't know.

But why are you determined to buy the same subwoofer brand as the speakers? It should be possible to find a very good sub that will match aesthetically with whatever speakers you choose. For example, I think the high gloss piano black finish of the Rythmik D15SE or the SVS PB12-Plus with the piano black gloss would go well with the metallic finish of some of the Gallo speakers. Sometimes the right kind of contrast makes for an excellent aesthetic.
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post #51 of 59
5/8/12 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
If anyone is still checking in .... at this point I'm leaning toward a Monitor Audio Gold GX system, but am still really undecided about the sub:

fronts: GX300
center: GXC150
surrounds (2): GX50
sub: SVS PB13-Ultra??

I decided that unless I went with DefTech, I'd just have raise my TV up a little higher on the wall to fit a larger center. I'll need to put in a little shelf on top of the fireplace mantel as well (to increase the depth), but I figured there would be no real point to spend a lot on speakers and then compromise on the center.

I've been getting a lot of conflicting information on the ability of the Elite SC-57 AVR to drive a 5.1 Gold system. The SC-57 forum almost universally says it shouldnt been an issue, while the speaker forum crowd tend to recommend an amp upgrade at some point (not necessarily right away though). Tech support at Monitor Audio basically have the same message - I should get better amps.

Cheers,
JD
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post #52 of 59
5/8/12 at 11:38am
Are you getting dizzy spinning around in a circle.

There have been times in life, when I just went ahead and made
a decision. You will always get different points of view. I would
hands down, choose a Funky Waves or SVS sub. For me, I would
at least start with that receiver - then see what the future holds.
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post #53 of 59
5/8/12 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

If anyone is still checking in .... at this point I'm leaning toward a Monitor Audio Gold GX system, but am still really undecided about the sub:

fronts: GX300
center: GXC150
surrounds (2): GX50
sub: SVS PB13-Ultra??

I decided that unless I went with DefTech, I'd just have raise my TV up a little higher on the wall to fit a larger center. I'll need to put in a little shelf on top of the fireplace mantel as well (to increase the depth), but I figured there would be no real point to spend a lot on speakers and then compromise on the center.

I've been getting a lot of conflicting information on the ability of the Elite SC-57 AVR to drive a 5.1 Gold system. The SC-57 forum almost universally says it shouldnt been an issue, while the speaker forum crowd tend to recommend an amp upgrade at some point (not necessarily right away though). Tech support at Monitor Audio basically have the same message - I should get better amps.

Cheers,
JD

I am looking for speakers as well. Tough decision as I cannot audition all the speakers I want to audition. Although I do not have Monitor Audio speakers, it seems the Pioneer would drive them just fine. If you like the sound, you can always add a Wyred 4 Sound amp later for more power.

I have the SVS PB-13 Ultra and like it.
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post #54 of 59
5/8/12 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuttle View Post

I am looking for speakers as well. Tough decision as I cannot audition all the speakers I want to audition. Although I do not have Monitor Audio speakers, it seems the Pioneer would drive them just fine. If you like the sound, you can always add a Wyred 4 Sound amp later for more power.

I have the SVS PB-13 Ultra and like it.

I agree. You have pre-outs on the reciever; you can always add more power if you feel like you need it, even just a 3 channel amp to give the front sound stage a boost where generally the most power is needed. That will also allow the receiver to supply more power to the rear speakers.

And I don't have an SVS PB-13 Ultra, but I would like one
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post #55 of 59
5/8/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

If anyone is still checking in .... at this point I'm leaning toward a Monitor Audio Gold GX system, but am still really undecided about the sub:

fronts: GX300
center: GXC150
surrounds (2): GX50
sub: SVS PB13-Ultra??

I decided that unless I went with DefTech, I'd just have raise my TV up a little higher on the wall to fit a larger center. I'll need to put in a little shelf on top of the fireplace mantel as well (to increase the depth), but I figured there would be no real point to spend a lot on speakers and then compromise on the center.

I've been getting a lot of conflicting information on the ability of the Elite SC-57 AVR to drive a 5.1 Gold system. The SC-57 forum almost universally says it shouldnt been an issue, while the speaker forum crowd tend to recommend an amp upgrade at some point (not necessarily right away though). Tech support at Monitor Audio basically have the same message - I should get better amps.

Cheers,
JD

Well If you're willing to adjust things for a larger center I go back to my original recommendation as being pretty hard to beat

Quote:


Salk Veracity HT3 $6k

Salk HT2C $1700

Salk HTS MT surround $1200

HSU VTF-15 $1k

And again, you can always add an X3 amp if you feel like your AVR is lacking
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post #56 of 59
5/9/12 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 
Thanks again Jay1. The Salks do appear to be great speakers and very comparable to the Monitor Audio Golds - ribbon tweeters, awesome!

For me, the two big advantages of the MA Golds would be the opportunity to hear them before buying them (even auditioning them repeatedly at multiple locations before deciding); and the ability to negotiate a price well below the MSRP. Of course, you might argue that the MSRP is grossly inflated relative to that of the Salks anyway, and I don't know that I'd have a good answer to that or not!

How about the SVS vs. the Hsu? Do you think the Hsu is a much better sub, or are they pretty comparable? Would 1 be a better match to the Golds over the other?

Cheers,
JD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Well If you're willing to adjust things for a larger center I go back to my original recommendation as being pretty hard to beat



And again, you can always add an X3 amp if you feel like your AVR is lacking
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post #57 of 59
5/9/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_alpha View Post

Thanks again Jay1. The Salks do appear to be great speakers and very comparable to the Monitor Audio Golds - ribbon tweeters, awesome!

For me, the two big advantages of the MA Golds would be the opportunity to hear them before buying them (even auditioning them repeatedly at multiple locations before deciding); and the ability to negotiate a price well below the MSRP. Of course, you might argue that the MSRP is grossly inflated relative to that of the Salks anyway, and I don't know that I'd have a good answer to that or not!



Cheers,
JD

The Salks are a much better sounding speaker, but their downfall is no local distributors. Although, that isn't a downfall because that's how they are able to offer so much performance for a lower cost. Hearing a speaker is key, though; are their no local Salk owners in your area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Check out Funky Waves, too. They have a fantastic reputation for making excellent subs. They also have a lot of interesting finishes and designs, which might make them a better fit aesthetically with your room.

That's who I'd go with. They use the best drivers around (LMS5400 Ultra and TSAD), use monster amps that utilize good PEQ and will basically build anything you want. I'd pair a Funk Audio sub with Salk SoundScape 8's and the SoundScape C center, move the existing speakers to the rear and buy an external amp later down the road. It's a little over budget but nothing will touch it performance wise for the money in my opinion
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post #58 of 59
5/9/12 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post


The Salks are a much better sounding speaker, but their downfall is no local distributors. Although, that isn't a downfall because that's how they are able to offer so much performance for a lower cost. Hearing a speaker is key, though; are their no local Salk owners in your area?

That's who I'd go with. They use the best drivers around (LMS5400 Ultra and TSAD), use monster amps that utilize good PEQ and will basically build anything you want. I'd pair a Funk Audio sub with Salk SoundScape 8's and the SoundScape C center, move the existing speakers to the rear and buy an external amp later down the road. It's a little over budget but nothing will touch it performance wise for the money in my opinion

You like the sound better than JTR T8s or JBL LSR 6332s? I know they are not as pretty in the living room.
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post #59 of 59
5/10/12 at 7:21am
Thread Starter 
I certainly appreciate all of you posters passion and commitment! I'm not aware of any local Salk owners, moreover, I'd prefer not to have my head end up in someone's basement fridge!

I guess I could research the Funky Waves in addition to the SVS. I am starting to push it though in terms of time spent researching and forum time -luckily, I don't think my empoyer has been monitoring my web use very closely this past couple of weeks or I would already have been canned!

I hear everyone on the point of buying some net direct speakers with a 30 day return period and returning them if I don't like them. Frankly, those companies are counting on the hassle of the return (along with the infeasibilty of doing a comparison to another brand on site) dissuading any purhcasers from actually following through on a return, which in my case would be very astute on their part! But I'm sure this has already been debated endlessly on the forums. I only have so much time, and can only count on so much patience from my better half, that a string of speaker deliveries, set ups, and returns just isn't in the cards.

For me, currently, it's more that I'll be spending quite a bit of money on the equipment and want to try to ensure I'm making a wise purchase, rather than developing into a full blown enthusiast.

Thanks Again,
JD



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

The Salks are a much better sounding speaker, but their downfall is no local distributors. Although, that isn't a downfall because that's how they are able to offer so much performance for a lower cost. Hearing a speaker is key, though; are their no local Salk owners in your area?



That's who I'd go with. They use the best drivers around (LMS5400 Ultra and TSAD), use monster amps that utilize good PEQ and will basically build anything you want. I'd pair a Funk Audio sub with Salk SoundScape 8's and the SoundScape C center, move the existing speakers to the rear and buy an external amp later down the road. It's a little over budget but nothing will touch it performance wise for the money in my opinion
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