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GCD - Gamut Calibration Disk - Page 13

Poll Results: What format would you prefer for the HTPC?

 
  • 33% (19)
    .mp4
  • 66% (38)
    .mkv
  • 0% (0)
    others (please detail in thread)
57 Total Votes  
post #361 of 631
Thread Starter 
What player are you using?
I would not have thought it would solve the problem.

Regarding the differences between the 2 disks. The normal version is a blu ray version patched to work as a avchd disk, where the strict version is completely re-authored for avchd
post #362 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

What player are you using?
I would not have thought it would solve the problem.
Regarding the differences between the 2 disks. The normal version is a blu ray version patched to work as a avchd disk, where the strict version is completely re-authored for avchd

I have the slim PS3. To be fair, the pop-up menus never worked for me on the AVS disc either, so the issue is likely the PS3. (It doesn't seem to support pop-ups menus when the AVCHD format is used.)
post #363 of 631
My PS3 BT remote works fine using the square to bring up the pop-up menus.
post #364 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

My PS3 BT remote works fine using the square to bring up the pop-up menus.

did you burn the AVCHD version or the BD version? I'm having the issue with the AVCHD version (burned to a DVD-R).

EDIT: the square button does bring up the pop-menu, at least with most pattern types. The pop-up button doesn't work.
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 7/29/12 at 2:09pm
post #365 of 631
Update on samsung blu ray bd-p1600

The download of the gcd worked! I changed "download software" for the avchd dvd version. Thank you for your assistance.

Vincentfam
Edited by vincentfam - 7/31/12 at 11:12am
post #366 of 631
Thread Starter 
good to hear it worked, did you use the avchd strict version?
post #367 of 631
Thread Starter 
I was considering the following patterns:

Contrast clip pattern (White) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (Black) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (All Colors) - Similar to contrast clip pattern on GCD
Meter Position pattern
ramp (16-235) for Red
ramp (16-235) for Green
ramp (16-235) for Blue
ramp (16-235) for Cyan
ramp (16-235) for Yellow
ramp (16-235) for Magenta
ramp (16-235) for White

any others??
post #368 of 631
For the ramps, you might consider 0-255 with marks at 16 and 235.
post #369 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

good to hear it worked, did you use the avchd strict version?

I used the regular version and not the strict one. Apparently, one of my old download software wasn't working properly and thought that I would try a different one, and I am glad I did.

Thanks again for your assistance. It is really appreciated.

Vincentfam
post #370 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

I was considering the following patterns:
Contrast clip pattern (White) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (Black) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (All Colors) - Similar to contrast clip pattern on GCD
Meter Position pattern
ramp (16-235) for Red
ramp (16-235) for Green
ramp (16-235) for Blue
ramp (16-235) for Cyan
ramp (16-235) for Yellow
ramp (16-235) for Magenta
ramp (16-235) for White
any others??

The ramps should go to 255.

Since they are encoded as YCC and the legal values are 16-235 for Y and 16-240 for Cr and Cb, there are alot of legal values that are above 235.

See Don Munsil's post, one of the creators of spears and munsil discs
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1378084/disney-wow-calibration-and-clipping#post_22217360
post #371 of 631
what are these ramps for?
post #372 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

I was considering the following patterns:
Contrast clip pattern (White) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (Black) - Similar to AVSHD 709 disk
Brightness clip pattern (All Colors) - Similar to contrast clip pattern on GCD
Meter Position pattern
ramp (16-235) for Red
ramp (16-235) for Green
ramp (16-235) for Blue
ramp (16-235) for Cyan
ramp (16-235) for Yellow
ramp (16-235) for Magenta
ramp (16-235) for White
any others??

I would certainly like to see a meter position pattern. I'm not sure what use a brightness clip pattern that showed all six colors would have, though. I think a black pattern for that would be plenty.
post #373 of 631
15 EBU test colours was defined in EBU Tech 3237 and meter position pattern
Edited by anta1974 - 8/1/12 at 7:25am
post #374 of 631
Hello Gentelmans

I've read all 13 pages of discussion and dozens of other pages, tutorials and color management books hovewer I still can't get one thing. If you could spend some time on explaining this I would be grateful.

The Gamut Calibration Patterns are designed for 2.22 gamma. Let's assume that production studios use the same gamma formula. So, to achieve proper saturation levels we need to take gamma-weighted R'G'B' triplet. Therefore calibrating a display to different gamma will induce a saturation shift and the shift must be corrected.

But why do we change targets like in the spreadsheet attached to the first post? Isn't the triplet calculated for gamma 2.22 supposed to produce the same saturation on a display of gamma let's say 2.4 ? Why would we increase targets' saturation when increasing gamma? I thought we have to increase display's saturation to compensate the change on it...
In an example: the dark skin target on 2.22 flat gamma is (xyY) 0.401 0.359 10.01%. But if i change the gamma to 2.6 it becomes 0.418 0.362 6.84%. Why? Why are dark skin tones in a movie supposed to look more saturated on a 2.6 gamma display? Shouldn't they be just darker?
post #375 of 631
If you change your gamma target the saturation target changes, nothing unusual about that.
post #376 of 631
Zoyd sorry it's not that unusual for me, consider the follwing examples please:

I took a photo that was colour corrected on a 2.2 gamma monitor. Then lowered the gamma of the image to ~1.8. The saturation dropped significantly.
Below the photo there is a target from your spreedshet for gamma 1.8. The points lie closer to the white point than in original target. Why we aim for lowered saturation? The picture is already washed out of colours.


And the opposite example with increased gamma of the image (to ~2.5). The image looks oversaturated and the targets for lie farther from the white point. So basically everything is fine?


So the image should look oversaturated when increased gamma and undersaturated when decreased?

Shouldn't we compensate for saturation when changing gamma?
post #377 of 631
I don't get your point, when doing the R'G'B' to xyY transform the value of gamma affects both luminance and saturation (except at 100%) as you have seen from your photographs. So the EOTF you calibrate to will change both. Since historically there is no standard EOTF there is also no firm saturation target so you must choose one based on your viewing environment, display capabilities and the principles of color science. There is nothing standard about 2.2 gamma in the film industry, your source material might have been color corrected on a monitor with 2.35, or 2.4 or a variable gamma monitor such as raw CRTs have.
Edited by zoyd - 8/12/12 at 8:27am
post #378 of 631
Thread Starter 
I have added a new version with some extra patterns.

Im not sure why the brightness clip pattern show a different result as the AVSHD709 disk - I am investigating..

also I have skipped the AVCHD version and now there is only the strict version - this is to keep it all a bit more simple.

any comments please let me know

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/66942922/GCDb4_3_10.zip
post #379 of 631
Thanks visca - appreciate the meter position very much!

Regarding the brightness pattern - 17 is marked as reference black (?)
post #380 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

Thanks visca - appreciate the meter position very much!
Regarding the brightness pattern - 17 is marked as reference black (?)

sounds like it should be digital 16
post #381 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

I have added a new version with some extra patterns.
Im not sure why the brightness clip pattern show a different result as the AVSHD709 disk - I am investigating..
also I have skipped the AVCHD version and now there is only the strict version - this is to keep it all a bit more simple.
any comments please let me know
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/66942922/GCDb4_3_10.zip

Which extra patterns does it have? I just recently burned b4.3.9 (regular AVCHD version).

BTW, what is wrong with the brightness clip pattern?
post #382 of 631
Thread Starter 
Correct I have marked the wrong level as reference - will fix this

the changes between 4.3.9 and 4.3.10 it the following:

added position pattern
added brightness pattern
added ramps for black, RGBCYM all to white

extended the length for the patterns in the basic section to 1 minute
post #383 of 631
Thread Starter 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/66942922/GCDb4_3_11.zip
latest version

this have the corrected brightness clip pattern and also added contrast clip pattern (all white)
post #384 of 631
I have download the disk for the first time today and while i was checking the file contents i found that the APL Patterns has no fixed RGB Triplet Background. From a quick check to some files i found these differencies:

Background Used for APL Patterns have these RGB Triplets:

1% APL Grayscale: RGB Triplet: 71,71,71

Color Checker APL : RGB Triplet: 71,71,71

0% White APL : RGB Triplet: 71,71,71

10% Window APL - 25 Amplitude @ All Saturation Levels: RGB Triplet: 64,64,64

50 Amplitude @ All Saturation Levels APL : RGB Triplet: 57,57,57

10% APL 75%A RGB Triplet: 51,51,51

100% Amplitude 25% Green RGB Triplet: 45,45,45

@ 10% APL Grayscale Patterns:

100% RGB Triplet: 45,45,45
90% RGB Triplet: 48,48,48
80% RGB Triplet: 50,50,50
70% RGB Triplet: 53,53,53
60% RGB Triplet: 55,55,55
50% RGB Triplet: 57,57,57
40% RGB Triplet: 60,60,60
30% RGB Triplet: 62,62,62
20% RGB Triplet: 65,65,65
10% RGB Triplet: 67,67,67

Because i haven't followed all previously posts, please tell me if that differencies at background values is normal, before burning the disk for testing to my setup.

* That version of disk i have examined: GCDb4_3_7_BLURAY
post #385 of 631
Would it be possible to add window patterns from 90% to 109% in 1% increments? This would work well with the new contrast tool in CalMAN 5. Thanks.
post #386 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

I have download the disk for the first time today and while i was checking the file contents i found that the APL Patterns has no fixed RGB Triplet Background. From a quick check to some files i found these differencies:
Background Used for APL Patterns have these RGB Triplets:
1% APL Grayscale: RGB Triplet: 71,71,71
Color Checker APL : RGB Triplet: 71,71,71
0% White APL : RGB Triplet: 71,71,71
10% Window APL - 25 Amplitude @ All Saturation Levels: RGB Triplet: 64,64,64
50 Amplitude @ All Saturation Levels APL : RGB Triplet: 57,57,57
10% APL 75%A RGB Triplet: 51,51,51
100% Amplitude 25% Green RGB Triplet: 45,45,45
@ 10% APL Grayscale Patterns:
100% RGB Triplet: 45,45,45
90% RGB Triplet: 48,48,48
80% RGB Triplet: 50,50,50
70% RGB Triplet: 53,53,53
60% RGB Triplet: 55,55,55
50% RGB Triplet: 57,57,57
40% RGB Triplet: 60,60,60
30% RGB Triplet: 62,62,62
20% RGB Triplet: 65,65,65
10% RGB Triplet: 67,67,67
Because i haven't followed all previously posts, please tell me if that differencies at background values is normal, before burning the disk for testing to my setup.
* That version of disk i have examined: GCDb4_3_7_BLURAY

If you require the blu-ray version I will upload 4.3.11. give me 1 hour.

regarding the background difference between 1% and 10% WINDOWS apl. the difference you see is intentional.
the reason for that is the following.
1% window sizes are so small they dont really change the power output where the 10% windows are so big that a compensation in the background is required.



@praz

I will include the required patterns however it might be some time, going on holiday tomorrow, and when I get back I start a new job, so this will require some attention.
post #387 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

@praz
I will include the required patterns however it might be some time, going on holiday tomorrow, and when I get back I start a new job, so this will require some attention.

Thank you. Very much appreciated.
post #388 of 631
Thread Starter 
sorry for the delay. 4.3.11 bluray format
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/66942922/GCDb4_3_11_BluRay.zip
post #389 of 631
Thread Starter 
Additional I can add that the 10% APL windows have an APL on 23% this it to prevent triggering ABL on plasma sets.
post #390 of 631
Great disk Visca!!!

Only problem is on both latest AVCHD and BD version that if i choose patterns skipping to the next (ie 10% grayscale chapters) it skipped from 0% to 100%??

This happens on my iconbit 3D mediaplayer.

The Avchd disk has no problem.

Thanks for putting effort in this disk
Edited by Killerbeenl - 8/24/12 at 4:36am
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