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Speakers for 20-30K - Page 5

post #121 of 264
4/21/12 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

I agree regarding the law of diminishing returns arguement. Buying speakers is not a numbers game but a path to discovering your own taste. For a lot of people a burger tastes better than filet and why shouldn't it?

To the OP, there are a lot of interesting technologies out there. Planar speakers, line arrays, open baffle, single driver speakers, speakers that look like art and sound okay, speakers that look homemads and sound brilliant.

Remember, you are buying a speaker you'll be listening to and looking at for years. Try to listen to them for hours before you takem home.

Agreed. But if he can get where he wants to be with a lot less outlay of cash then why wouldn't he? If he's dead set on that last couple of percent then that's fine. But if it isn't that big of a deal then that frees up a large chunk of money.
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post #122 of 264
4/21/12 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
UPDATE:
Dear dealers, I will be happy if you PM me your price on the speakers that you have for sale, If you are not Local to Westchester NY or within 50 miles please PM me your shipped price.
Please ask me any questions, Thank you for your attention.
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post #123 of 264
4/21/12 at 3:58pm
Hi Babak,

People have pointed out that the law of diminishing returns applies very strongly to this hobby. And people have also pointed out that speakers and hearing is extremely subjective, and that you should really listen to different speakers to get an idea of what you like.

One thing that's been said a little between the lines is that there are many very great internet direct speaker design/manufacture companies that are producing amazing speakers for a fraction of what you can buy from their established high-end rivals.

With all this info, my very strong recommendation is that you try to make it to some sort of show like AKFest

It will let you sit and listen to a wide range of speakers. The guys making the line arrays will be there, there will be someone showing Salk's speakers, and many many others.

The best thing for someone in your position is that there will be serious audiophile experts everywhere you go, all of them will be freely available (and very happy!) to answer any and all questions you may have about sound in your new space.

I realise that it's next weekend, but I highly recommend getting out to it if you can. Spending $2k of your budget to get so many auditions in one place and access to all that expertise sounds like a very cheap deal to me, and I'd be willnig to bet you could manage it for much less if you looked for a deal. If you can't make it to that one, keepnig an eye out for another such event nearer to you would be my next best advice.
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post #124 of 264
4/21/12 at 4:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemir View Post

Hi Babak,

People have pointed out that the law of diminishing returns applies very strongly to this hobby. And people have also pointed out that speakers and hearing is extremely subjective, and that you should really listen to different speakers to get an idea of what you like.

One thing that's been said a little between the lines is that there are many very great internet direct speaker design/manufacture companies that are producing amazing speakers for a fraction of what you can buy from their established high-end rivals.

With all this info, my very strong recommendation is that you try to make it to some sort of show like AKFest

It will let you sit and listen to a wide range of speakers. The guys making the line arrays will be there, there will be someone showing Salk's speakers, and many many others.

The best thing for someone in your position is that there will be serious audiophile experts everywhere you go, all of them will be freely available (and very happy!) to answer any and all questions you may have about sound in your new space.

I realise that it's next weekend, but I highly recommend getting out to it if you can. Spending $2k of your budget to get so many auditions in one place and access to all that expertise sounds like a very cheap deal to me, and I'd be willnig to bet you could manage it for much less if you looked for a deal. If you can't make it to that one, keepnig an eye out for another such event nearer to you would be my next best advice.

I know there was one in NYC last week that I missed, how do I find the other ones, How will I know that there may be one in Indiana or Ohio or Miami , ...
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post #125 of 264
4/21/12 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

I know there was one in NYC last week that I missed, how do I find the other ones, How will I know that there may be one in Indiana or Ohio or Miami , ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=audio+shows+2012&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=153.0

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...0412/shows.htm
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post #126 of 264
4/21/12 at 5:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

https://www.google.com/search?q=audio+shows+2012&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=153.0

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...0412/shows.htm

Thank you mate...
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post #127 of 264
4/21/12 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

Thank you mate...

Welcome. They tend to be on weekends though, like the NYC one you missed last week. Hope you don't work all of them
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post #128 of 264
4/21/12 at 5:25pm
Hey babak147!!!

I also wanted to help steer you in the right direction regarding AMPS!!!

Have you ever heard of Digital Amp Company ?

Cherry?

http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryUltra.html

I don't think it gets much better than that! That amp IMHO will best Red Dragon, EJ's Icepower, Spectron and just about any amps for that matter!

If you don't want to go digital you always can get Amplifier Technology Inc. (I'd use AT2000 or AT3000 series for the theater but Cherry for 2 chan)

I'd go digital for the environment and of the digital amps available I'd go CHERRY PLUS!

For a 2 channel preamp I'd go with EJ's (Wyred 4 Sound) STP-SE or Kingwa's (AudioGD) C-39 MK3.

I'm sure at this point if your BELIEVE IN SOLID-STATE (ME!) between Rick Craig (Selah Audio), Jim Salk (Salk Signature Sound) and Jed Kunz (Clearwave Loudspeaker Design) your in good hands regarding a custom loudspeaker.

PS I'd go Cherry Plus with STP-SE !
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post #129 of 264
4/21/12 at 5:38pm
Your in the east so a natural would be Jed Kunz... heck you can could meet for coffee you're so close!

Jed + Cherry Ultra + STP-SE = AUDIO NIRVANA

PS sorry EJ on your Ice stuff it's just Tommy really has everyone beat in class D right now! well... years actually... LOL
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post #130 of 264
4/21/12 at 6:12pm
@Babak - Take a look at what some people who really have the bug are into:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1&ctg
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post #131 of 264
4/21/12 at 6:44pm
Have you ever been to Des Moines? http://audiovideologic.com

I'm getting old but I think the Pioneer TAD Reference 1's are the most enjoyable pair of speakers I've ever auditioned. The Evolution 1's would be in your price range and they have a strong resemblance to the Reference 1's/CR-1's. Can't afford the TAD's but I recently swapped out my LRC's for pioneer S-EX's.
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post #132 of 264
4/21/12 at 6:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

@Babak - Take a look at what some people who really have the bug are into:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1&ctg

Wow, Thank you.
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post #133 of 264
4/21/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

What did James Carville say? it's like "dragging a $100 bill through a Trailer Park

I have never understood the thought process behind this type of Thread. Throwing a number like $30K out there on a public forum will generate a lot of activity. I suppose it is a form of due diligence, but really all it produces is a lot of contradictory subjective information from pseudo experts that can make a purchase decision even harder. For me, sound is like beauty, taste, smell or any other sensory judgment. Sure there is a lot of science behind sound reproduction and acoustics but in the end, it all comes down to personal taste.

You can do what I did which was the trial and error method. It took me several years to determine my priorities and then implement those priorities. I chose a DIY approach and over the years, I spent well beyond your budget to get to a sound that pleases me. With your budget flexibility, you may be better off paying an expert (there are some good ones like Keith Yates) to help you create a sound in your space that pleases you. You will need an overall budget of 2 or 3X the speaker budget but the advantage is you will have someone to hold accountable.

That is my $.02 and I think that is a realistic value for the information.

Thanks for this post. I would expect to establish that budget, you've had personal experience to validate it, and some thorough reasoning. Not so much of a goose chase.
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post #134 of 264
4/21/12 at 8:09pm
Before you start going down the road michaelkingdom and other might lead you down with turntables etc.

READ THIS

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_26_r.pdf

Once I see an expensive turntable I personally ROLL MY EYES
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post #135 of 264
4/21/12 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Before you start going down the road michaelkingdom and other might lead you down with turntables etc.

READ THIS

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_26_r.pdf

Once I see an expensive turntable I personally ROLL MY EYES

I believe The Audio Critic also preach that all Amps, Preamps, CD players, DACs, and wires sound alike within working limits, while processors and speakers sound differently.

So I bet Peter Aczel would frown upon a $5,000 400wpc Cherry digital stereo amp when you could buy a fantastic solid 300wpc ATI amp for $1900.
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post #136 of 264
4/22/12 at 12:10am
Controlled-pattern offset bipole mains with four-piece powered multisub system. Plenty of money left over in the budget for matching surrounds, and a center, although you probably won't need a center.

http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_...rium-beta.html


Attachment 244250
LL
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post #137 of 264
4/22/12 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelkingdom View Post

@Babak - Take a look at what some people who really have the bug are into:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1&ctg

Check out the Aural Enlightenment - that's me!!
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post #138 of 264
4/22/12 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

Hey babak147!!!

I also wanted to help steer you in the right direction regarding AMPS!!!

Have you ever heard of Digital Amp Company ?

Cherry?

http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryUltra.html

I don't think it gets much better than that! That amp IMHO will best Red Dragon, EJ's Icepower, Spectron and just about any amps for that matter!

If you don't want to go digital you always can get Amplifier Technology Inc. (I'd use AT2000 or AT3000 series for the theater but Cherry for 2 chan)

I'd go digital for the environment and of the digital amps available I'd go CHERRY PLUS!

For a 2 channel preamp I'd go with EJ's (Wyred 4 Sound) STP-SE or Kingwa's (AudioGD) C-39 MK3.

I'm sure at this point if your BELIEVE IN SOLID-STATE (ME!) between Rick Craig (Selah Audio), Jim Salk (Salk Signature Sound) and Jed Kunz (Clearwave Loudspeaker Design) your in good hands regarding a custom loudspeaker.

PS I'd go Cherry Plus with STP-SE !

5K for an amp? Are you serious? That is a total waste of money. His money would be better spent on things that actually make an audible difference. Emotive amps are a really good value and you won't be able to hear any difference between them and the cherry's.
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post #139 of 264
4/22/12 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAD View Post

Check out the Aural Enlightenment - that's me!!

I see you have your speaker cables on supports. Don't tell me you're one of those!
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post #140 of 264
4/22/12 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I see you have your speaker cables on supports. Don't tell me you're one of those!

Not for sound, for organization. To keep the AC signals away from the sound signals. Kind of like routing train traffic up and over or under. Makes no diff in sound value. I made those and put lead weights in the bottom of each.
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post #141 of 264
4/22/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAD View Post

Not for sound, for organization.

In that case hiding wires would look nicer.
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post #142 of 264
4/22/12 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by psgcdn View Post

In that case hiding wires would look nicer.

Dedicated room, not a family room. To keep them separated and hidden would not be very easy nor necessary. Plus I make my own cables and like to show them off!
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post #143 of 264
4/22/12 at 7:55am
For that money? Vandersteens.

http://www.vandersteen.com/quatro_wood.jpg

http://www.vandersteen.com/v5abig.jpg

Jeff
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post #144 of 264
4/22/12 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I believe The Audio Critic also preach that all Amps, Preamps, CD players, DACs, and wires sound alike within working limits, while processors and speakers sound differently.

So I bet Peter Aczel would frown upon a $5,000 400wpc Cherry digital stereo amp when you could buy a fantastic solid 300wpc ATI amp for $1900.

Not unless one picked the $5000 Cherry because it "sounded better."

Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

For that money? Vandersteens.

http://www.vandersteen.com/quatro_wood.jpg

http://www.vandersteen.com/v5abig.jpg

Jeff

Some people seem to really like these speakers. I don't get why, to be honest.

I recall once hearing the then-flagship Vandy 4 in a room set up for them, and a pair of Tannoy D700's (10" Dual Concentric, 10" woofer, much lower MSRP) brought into that room. While I took no measurements, it was obvious to all (and embarrassingly so to the dealer) that few people if anyone were going to listen to those two speakers in that room and pick the Vandies. The Tannoys clearly conveyed the dynamics and power of an orchestra (especially in the lower mids) better, had more coherent snap on plucked bass guitar, rendered solo oboe and English horn with both greater projection and more delicacy, and obviously blew the poor Vandies away in terms of rock-out-ability.

So the Tannoys went far away.

(Alas, I was but an undergrad, so they didn't come home with me)
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post #145 of 264
4/22/12 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Not unless one picked the $5000 Cherry because it "sounded better."



Some people seem to really like these speakers. I don't get why, to be honest.

I recall once hearing the then-flagship Vandy 4 in a room set up for them, and a pair of Tannoy D700's (10" Dual Concentric, 10" woofer, much lower MSRP) brought into that room. While I took no measurements, it was obvious to all (and embarrassingly so to the dealer) that few people if anyone were going to listen to those two speakers in that room and pick the Vandies. The Tannoys clearly conveyed the dynamics and power of an orchestra (especially in the lower mids) better, had more coherent snap on plucked bass guitar, rendered solo oboe and English horn with both greater projection and more delicacy, and obviously blew the poor Vandies away in terms of rock-out-ability.

So the Tannoys went far away.

(Alas, I was but an undergrad, so they didn't come home with me)

And to be totally honest I have never heard Vandersteens. I'm going by there reputation, and what people have said who own them. Richard Hardesty aka "Dr. Boom" formally of Widescreen Review holds them in high regard. They (unless I win the lotto! HA!!) are out of my price range, for now! It was just an option for the OP.
Jeff
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post #146 of 264
4/22/12 at 8:27am
babak - if not mentioned, Salk SoundScape 12's at $16,000 and custom veneered would really light your fire. They will need beefy amps and no, not the Cherry amps mentioned here. I've had 21 different amps since 2006 and have now settled on the TRL Samsons. Not for everyone, but the most musical solid state amps I have owned.

Since 2006 I have owned, in no particular order:

Monarchy SM70 monos
PS Audio GCC500 modified by Underwood
Moscode 401HR
Wyred SX1000 monos
Wyred SX500 monos
Wyred ST250
Dodd 120 monos
BAT VK500
Pass Labs X350.5
Sunfire 600
Rowland 201 monos
Belles 150A Refs as monos
TAD Hibachi monos
Dared VP-20 monos
Cherry 4800A
Cherry Plus
ATI 602
PS Audio Delta 250 monos
Hafler 9130
Hafler SE240
Hafler XL280
Electrocompaniet AW220
Jolida JD202A
AVA something?
Xindak ? 200 wpc
Tube Research Labs Samson monos

In the HT I have not kept as close track and can recall:

Emotiva MPS
Emotiva XPA something
Parasound HCA1206
Wyred SX1000's, 500's, ST250
ATI 1506
ATI1505
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post #147 of 264
4/22/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Not unless one picked the $5000 Cherry because it "sounded better."

Some people seem to really like these [Vandersteen] speakers. I don't get why, to be honest.

Can't argue there.

I don't want any Cherry amps.

I think the OP might be looking into some "Peach" amps.

I think I like Mango amps better, though. They sound so much sweeter to me.

Can't say I'm a fan of 1st order XO and measurements of any Vandersteen on Stereophile.

But, hey, if they sound better.....then.......well.......they......just......sound.. .....better.
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post #148 of 264
4/22/12 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAD View Post

babak - if not mentioned, Salk SoundScape 12's at $16,000 and custom veneered would really light your fire. They will need beefy amps and no, not the Cherry amps mentioned here. I've had 21 different amps since 2006 and have now settled on the TRL Samsons. Not for everyone, but the most musical solid state amps I have owned.

Hmmm......what's a..........musical..........amp?
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post #149 of 264
4/22/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I think I like Mango amps better, though. They sound so much sweeter to me.

Maybe for a little while. But all that runny sugary juice tends to lead to problems over time. So sweet, but not reliable.



That aside, unless you've been to the subcontinent you've never actually had a mango. The Mexican/Chilean/Costa Rican things they sell in the US are pathetic compared to a real mango, such as a Sindhri or a Neelam.

(Canadans are much better off than Americans in this regard. They can get actual mangoes.)

But my point was simply that if one picks an amp that happens to be more expensive for logical reasons, such as perhaps energy efficiency, or looks, or features (on/off triggers, level controls, etc.), or warranty length, etc., that's quite different from being deluded into thinking one perfectly competent amp "sounds" better than another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

But, hey, if they sound better.....then.......well.......they......just......sound.. .....better.

Vandies do sound different from speakers designed along the accuracy model. In a way that I don't particularly care for.

Same goes for brands like Shanahian or Magnepan, who have their rabid fans, but whose sound just leaves me cold.
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post #150 of 264
4/22/12 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I believe The Audio Critic also preach that all Amps, Preamps, CD players, DACs, and wires sound alike within working limits, while processors and speakers sound differently.

So I bet Peter Aczel would frown upon a $5,000 400wpc Cherry digital stereo amp when you could buy a fantastic solid 300wpc ATI amp for $1900.

VERY GOOD POINT

BUT

The Cherry is good for the environment!
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