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Official Panasonic UT50 Series Discussion Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 2596
The flicker your seeing is normal on plasmas. I can see it in clouds, white backgrounds, white clothes etc if I look hard enough. This means your sensitive to flicker and it's probably best suited for 60hz. There's nothing wrong with that..it's what your comfortable with. The reason I choose 24p is to get frame rate the film was shot at. I've become all but immune to seeing it now that I've forced it all these years. The next time you go to the cinema pay attention to what your seeing at home and you'll see flicker there too. Especially in the preview screens (white or green) it's pretty obvious.

On a side note I'm surprised you see flicker set this way. The UT has shown me much less flicker at 60hz with my player set to 24p than in the past. Others like pcgeek doesn't see flicker at all even with the tv set to 48hz which is amazing.

Your probably best asking questions in the blu-ray player threads about specific features of your player. Ask about your model and I'm sure someone will help. Unless someone here can help you. Anyone?
post #302 of 2596
Between the time I've spent fiddling with ST/VT50s and what I've gathered on the VT50 thread, I've made a quick list of things thus far of problems that the VT50 is having that we will never have.

- DSE (dirty screen effect)
- Rainbow efffect (similar to dlp)
- less natural crispness/vibrancy
- overall darker (despite the contrary)
- poor vertical viewing angle

That's a lot of problems right there. You know what's causing it? The louvre filter. That new and improved, every so wonderful filter will always be the Achilles' heel of the ST/GT/VT50.

The Kuro has DSE since it uses a similar filter, although not as aggressive. It's naturally less crisp because it's like having a layer of paste on the screen...something I don't want to separate me from the picture. Now the filter does block light from above and absorb for maximum contrast during the day so it will keep relatively good blacks during this time. But it will also have an overall darker appearance pound for pound.

Why does it have a rainbow effect? The answer to this is simple. Because the vertical viewing angle is absolutely horrible. You literally have to center yourself right in the middle of the screen to obtain all the information. If you move up or down then you will see a dark line rise or drop. This is that filter in action. Keep moving up/down and you'll see nothing but a black screen. It's like a line that has a shifting effect wherever it moves (according to your eyes) and that's why I call it 'the wave'. No I'm not kidding. Granted nobody's going to watch standing up like this but it does impact the experience because even a slight shift starts the 'wave' as I wanna call it. It's like a ripple effect that I thought was gone ages ago with DLP, and to a degree LCDs today. Very out of character for plasma.

Who does this impact? Well everyone unless you've plopped down a huge chunk o' change then I guess 'your not effected' now are you? I can see those that use Kinect for Xbox 360 effected by this. You stand/jump/dance/play in front of the screen and you'll be be riding the wave. On the opposite end of the spectrum.. what about those who mount it above a fireplace? Smothered under the wave.

I didn't stress this enough in my review but if your now on the fence with the UT/ST/VT then take a good long look (I mean inspect) the filter in the stores. Doesn't matter the lighting as you'll see what I'm talking about. Now that I've described the symptoms you know what to look for. I feel like I've done my duty to educate the masses on this filter and it's up to you now.

I feel okay with this rant because if your reading this then it means something compelled you to enter the UT50 thread. Maybe out of curiosity? Whatever the case I wish you well on your hunt for your ultimate display. Your always welcome to copy down the settings I provided and plug em in wherever you demo the sets. Still feel like the UT50 isn't for you? Then the joke's on me.
post #303 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

The flicker your seeing is normal on plasmas. I can see it in clouds, white backgrounds, white clothes etc if I look hard enough. This means your sensitive to flicker and it's probably best suited for 60hz. There's nothing wrong with that..it's what your comfortable with. The reason I choose 24p is to get frame rate the film was shot at. I've become all but immune to seeing it now that I've forced it all these years. The next time you go to the cinema pay attention to what your seeing at home and you'll see flicker there too. Especially in the preview screens (white or green) it's pretty obvious.

On a side note I'm surprised you see flicker set this way. The UT has shown me much less flicker at 60hz with my player set to 24p than in the past. Others like pcgeek doesn't see flicker at all even with the tv set to 48hz which is amazing.

Your probably best asking questions in the blu-ray player threads about specific features of your player. Ask about your model and I'm sure someone will help. Unless someone here can help you. Anyone?

I guess I'm just sensitive to it. I don't see how you could not see the flicker with the TV set to 48hz. It's really obvious. Motion does seem smoother with 24p and I think I just have to get used to it is all. It's only noticeable on very small things. I'll try it out for awhile. I'm sure I'll get used to it. I'm using a Sony S380 for BD's. I have a PS3 that I will have to try out 24p BD's on and see if I notice the same thing. Thanks for all of the help and information.
post #304 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post


I get what your saying. To me I hardly see crosstalk so I think it's more user than tv. But reviews are saying Samsung has better 3D so you have a point. I guess I just don't want one to 'overlook' this set because of what others (including Cnet) have to say about this tv. For example they claim the ST got darker but that's not quite true as they both have a similar MLL (nod to UT even). Get em in a dark room and you'll see. The same goes for 3D. I have to question their setup, how they set up the player/tv, and also I mentioned in my 3D review to separate left/right eye using 3D adjustment. Only those that are OCD are going to spend extra time dialing this in...but once done so expect better performance than factory defaults. That's all I'm trying to say.

I do see the flicker in 2d and 3d but in 3d it's much less pronounced to the point where I almost can't notice it or it's not a problem. My eyes have also adjusted to the flicker in 2d from watching so much 3d at 48hz as I tried avatar 2d@48hz last night and it was the first thing I tried at 48 and it looked like a slide show but is now somewhat acceptable. What amazed me was that you stated you can hardly see crosstalk with flicker sensitive eyes. The CT at 60hz for 3d is everywhere in almost everything,I still enjoy it but it's bad. My eyes are very sensitive. I can't use a 60hz LCD computer monitor and for years I've always noticed when mine would default back to 60hz after a driver update and I would have to change it to 72hz for it to be acceptable.I was a pro pcgamer for years and was a starter on the 2nd best quake 3 and 4 team in the country. I was even called upon to represent and play on the USA Q4 tdm team in the q4 world cup even though the game and community had pretty much died. My vision is probably more sensitive than yours. I'm honestly not trying to be an ******* even though i might come off as one at times, i'm just voicing my opinions and letting you guys know a bit more about me.
post #305 of 2596
@ PathofNeo

You were dead on about amazon dropping the price soon on the 60 inch. It's sitting at a very attractive price currently.
post #306 of 2596
Are you pulling the trigger Sonyboy?
post #307 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Are you pulling the trigger Sonyboy?

Not sure yet! I'm thinking about it!
post #308 of 2596
Would the settings be the same for the U50 and The UT50? Also how many people have gotten the U50? I'm looking for information on the PQ etc.
post #309 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by louie760 View Post

Would the settings be the same for the U50 and The UT50? Also how many people have gotten the U50? I'm looking for information on the PQ etc.

PQ is killer on my U54(costco/sams version of the U50). There's an owners' thread around here somewhere.
post #310 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

PQ is killer on my U54(costco/sams version of the U50). There's an owners' thread around here somewhere.

Wish the U54 came in a 60''. I know the UT does, but I really like how the U54 looks... the simple and plain bezel, almost nothing of tacky silver trims or cheap-looking transparent plastic borders, and that wide pedestal stand that looks really professional. It's a beauty in my eyes and the VT50 design takes a back seat to it in terms of appearance.

Panasonic seems to have gotton many important things right this year, and several smaller issues wrong. Wish they had included a less agressive filter on all thier models including the low-end ones.
post #311 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by louie760 View Post

Would the settings be the same for the U50 and The UT50?

I'm going to say no. I've never seen 2 different models (even slight variation) having the same settings. Although I'm sure it'll be similar. If you plugged the settings in listed in this thread it'll most likely look at least 'good'.

There is an owner's thread here. If I get a hold of a U model and calibrate the settings will be posted there.
post #312 of 2596
Thanks for the info. I'm still debating which one I should get. The U50 or the UT50. This is my first Plasma buy so I'm taking my time doing research. I'm gonna look into the 54 model as well.
post #313 of 2596
For those wondering how much crosstalk your display is showing there's a test I found on the 3D Display board that can be found here.

I've been asking on the VT50 thread how crosstalk compares to the UT/ST but no luck getting answers. This was until jbug stepped up to the plate and provided the experience (and results from test) of his VT50 here. It's not a positive review.

So if you think your set has too much crosstalk then I wouldn't expect less with higher end models. But how will you know for sure? Read the instructions and take the test from the link I provided then post your results here for us all to see. This is about the only way I know to get some REAL WORLD numbers and not mumbo jumbo jargon from 'highly paid' website reviews.

I encourage those here interested in 3D to share your results so we can get a baseline. In the test thread there are a number of different displays for comparison.
post #314 of 2596
PathofNeo, what NC market are you in, and do you use cable, sat, or OTA antenna? I live in Asheville-Greenville-Spartanburg market, and use attic antenna for reception, and I also receive Charlotte channels. Pic quality is excellent OTA on my 50UT50, which has a very good tuner. Only I wish Panasonic would provide complete program info and channel list like Samsung and LG plasmas do. But couldn't be happier with the UT which I got on sale for $799. One of the best choices out there, IMO, and competes very well with the top tier models. And I actually prefer the lack of filter, as images are very sharp and colors truly pop. My primary viewing is 2D, so I haven't even gotten around to purchasing the 3D glasses yet. Going to get a Wifi adapter first. Also, Panasonic soundbars work very well with this TV using HDMI/ARC connection, allowing the use of the main TV remote.
post #315 of 2596
RDU area and I use newsgroups/Dune Player 3.0 as my source for tv and PS3 for everything else.
post #316 of 2596
Alot of people are liking the 48hz for 3d with very minimal crosstalk. He would have had great results if he could have run the test at 48hz. I'm praying we get a fw update to fix the 3d@60 and its possible seeing how good this years panny's are.Keep your fingers crossed You can also point a digital camera at your TV and view it if you want to get a better view and idea of the difference in refresh rates. Give it a try,it's pretty interesting. You need to use a tripod or keep your camera very still lol.
post #317 of 2596
@PathofNeo great points. Panasonic should give people the option to have a filter or not, especially on the VT50. When you buy a flagship anything you should be getting the best that company can do.

Another annoying and stupid decision panasonic made was adding a non-defeatable edge-correction to VT50 (did they do this with other models aswell?). They should include a 'zero post-processing' mode like Kuro's have, it's not like it would cost them any money to do this. *sigh* Maybe they wouldn't have to use edge-correction if they got rid of that stupid filter that robs the TV of some crispiness!

Oh, and just a quick Q: does the UT50 have a built-in microphone? or camera for that matter?
post #318 of 2596
Condering that most people have been blown away by the picture quality of the VT50 i'm thinking they are doing plenty right with the filter and the 2500 FFD adding slight edge enhancement.

I haven't yet seen the VT50 in person but I have now seen the GT50 with its filter and the set is just jaw dropping in my opinion, not that I haven't been impressed by the UT50 but it was a noticeable difference in my opinion.
post #319 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millott View Post

Condering that most people have been blown away by the picture quality of the VT50 i'm thinking they are doing plenty right with the filter and the 2500 FFD adding slight edge enhancement.

I'm not saying the filter is all bad. There will always be those that prefer a filter, and in this case the filter is so good that I'm sure daylight users and/or ppl that just want filters will be extra pleased!

I'm just not convinced personally that the higher end models are as big of a leap in a dark room this time around. For those on a budget and/or have controlled lighting will be hands down satisfied with the UT. If I had to explain..I'd say Panasonic packed the biggest punch in every model and I'm here going "woops did you mean to do that?".

But by all means if your a fan of filters then you can't ask for more than the VT50. It looks like they may even overtake lcds with lights/sun in mind.
post #320 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post


I'm not saying the filter is all bad. There will always be those that prefer a filter, and in this case the filter is so good that I'm sure daylight users and/or ppl that just want filters will be extra pleased!

I'm just not convinced personally that the higher end models are as big of a leap in a dark room this time around. For those on a budget and/or have controlled lighting will be hands down satisfied with the UT. If I had to explain..I'd say Panasonic packed the biggest punch in every model and I'm here going "woops did you mean to do that?".

But by all means if your a fan of filters then you can't ask for more than the VT50. It looks like they may even overtake lcds with lights/sun in mind.

I had a Pioneer 500m and now a ST50 but I agree with you that the UT50 is a serious bang for the buck TV in a light controlled room. Kudos to Panasonic this year for stepping up to the plate across all model lines. Finally seeing the Kuro tech being utilized after several years of having it.
post #321 of 2596
Maybe someone could clarify here, but it is my understanding that the FFD and the edge-correction really have nothing to do with eachother. The edge-correction is a post-process applied to the image, part of the "smart viera engine pro", whereas the FFD system is a real improvement to the drive system...correct?
post #322 of 2596
So to clarify the st,gt and vt models really have poor veritcle viewing angles and the ut50 does not???
post #323 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackjack22 View Post

So to clarify the st,gt and vt models really have poor veritcle viewing angles and the ut50 does not???

That's correct. The U/UT models are not effected since they don't have the louvre filter.
post #324 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackjack22 View Post

So to clarify the st,gt and vt models really have poor veritcle viewing angles and the ut50 does not???

I wouldn't call them bad, I don't even think it is LCD bad, but yes the filter does affect vertical viewing. If you are real close to the screen you need to be very near center, but it opens up greatly as you move back to proper viewing distances.

If you are mounting one of them really high I would recommend a vertical swivel mount just in case so you can angle the TV down a bit (probably a good idea with any TV mounted high anyway).

The U(T) lacks a AR filter so this is obviously a non issue.
post #325 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

If you are real close to the screen you need to be very near center, but it opens up greatly as you move back to proper viewing distances.

I'm gonna take it one step further..because it needs addressing. It's true the further you are away then the less effected the vertical viewing will be. However, it's still a problem as I've noted that even at 10ft with just raising your head there is a shift. The picture darkens somewhat and it reminds me of a DLP. I'm just too nit picky for this. This is the exact reason why I wouldn't buy the HX929 as much as I liked it. Unless your front and center you won't get the 'full lit' picture.

Having said that, the side to side angles are really good and on par for plasma. So your friends/family sitting on the end of the couch or to the side of the room will still see what your seeing. So I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion, but there will be a certain group of ppl effected including those looking for optimal 3D playback. Can you imagine dark shifts in an already darker signal?
post #326 of 2596
I think you're greatly overblowing the negative impact of the filters, I admit that it has an impact from a high vertical point of view but nobody is going to watch tv from such an angle. You prefer what you prefer and nobody is going to change that but me thinks its just your brain trying to justify not wanting to spend more.

I also think the UT50 is a fantastic set and i'm inclined to agree that it looked better to me in person then the ST50 did but I felt the GT50 was clearly superior to both when I saw it and many trusted opinions have stated the VT50 is also a notable step up from even the GT50.

Now everything i've been hearing is that out of the box the ST50 isn't too hot but that once dialed in via custom mode with the pro menu that it can be coaxed to look fantastic. I think Panny simply did a better job calibrating the UT50 for out of the box cinema mode.
post #327 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millott View Post

me thinks its just your brain trying to justify not wanting to spend more.

Not the case. I've been eyeballing the Sharp Elite very hard and have come oh so close to pulling the trigger. I have OCD with high standards so the slightest thing bothers me. In the case of the Elite it's the color issue and viewing angles that lcds are known for. But I do know the viewing angles on the Elite is the best in it's category, almost to the point of being moot. So this leaves the cyan issue and once that's corrected I may have a new set. The HX929 is out due to excessive blooming, or I'd have that set.

See, I'm not fixed on plasma or a price tag. The UT50 just happens to offer me lesser of the evils and a price tag I didn't have to think about. That is..until something better comes along. The Value Electronics Shootout vids should be posted on youtube soon and I plan to get my popcorn and watch.
post #328 of 2596
New member and soon to be first time plasma tv owner. Just placed an order for the 55" UT50.

I've been reading so many threads here and I'm really hoping that this turns out to be a good match for me. I'm coming from about a 6 year old 32" lcd hand me down from my bro. So I figure this has to be a step up.

Any advice for breaking in the TV or should I just watch mixed content in a certain mode and enjoy it out of the box?
post #329 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by boushh2187 View Post

New member and soon to be first time plasma tv owner. Just placed an order for the 55" UT50.

Any advice for breaking in the TV or should I just watch mixed content in a certain mode and enjoy it out of the box?

Buddy your in for a treat. That 55UT50 is going to suit you well. For a first plasma, you should have a very positive experience. The settings I provided are meant for straight out of the box. Burn-in has been greatly reduced in modern plasmas and to tell you the truth I never do anything special to prevent it. I never even broke in my Kuro properly, as I went straight to playing games and 4:3 content. The only thing I had on my Kuro and Panny plasmas was a hint of image retention which goes away after watching 16:9 full screen video for like an hour. It really goes away.

The most important thing to do is take it out of Standard and/or Vivid mode. Vivid mode is not good for a new plasma, and standard gives the worst picture. Use settings provided in this thread as a starting point, and if you don't like it you can always adjust from there. Also to be safe you can avoid 4:3 or any letterboxing for the first 100 hours. If you do feel the need to watch something with anamorphic bars then just mix it up afterward. Enjoy it!
post #330 of 2596
Quote:
Originally Posted by boushh2187 View Post

New member and soon to be first time plasma tv owner. Just placed an order for the 55" UT50.

I've been reading so many threads here and I'm really hoping that this turns out to be a good match for me. I'm coming from about a 6 year old 32" lcd hand me down from my bro. So I figure this has to be a step up.

Any advice for breaking in the TV or should I just watch mixed content in a certain mode and enjoy it out of the box?

All of the break in/calibration talk is mostly for extreme users who want to tweak every last bit of performance from their TV. If you just want turn on your TV and watch normally, you'll be perfectly fine.
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