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Building the Dream

post #1 of 43
4/21/12 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
Hi All

It finally my turn to put my hat into the forum and try to contirbute to such an awesome community! My progress like most will be based on the necessary evils: Time and Money.

Some may remember my post on framing where it looked like something straight from Holmes on Holmes. Well, some tear down, cutting, and a couple boxes of contractor bags later. I have had everything fixed and looking ok.

Before:



After



Details:

Current Room Dimensions - 16' 1" X 21.5' X 8' 7"
Estimated room dimensions after drywall/room treatments - 15' 8"X21'3"X8'2"

Planning on clips/hat channel on ceiling and all walls DD/GG

Screen Size - Planning on 10' wide 2.35 AT screen
Speakers - 7.2 (Currently have all Definitive Tech and will use until I can change)
Audio - Need a new PreAmp (Currently Lexicon DC-1) and have a Gemstone 7x200 amp

Seating two rows possible two rows of 4 or one 4 and one 3.


Open layout - I know this is a huge issue for some, but my house is an open floor plan and want to maintain the concept. Also, I think for social occasions it will be better.

Current Shot of Theater Area



This is my current concept:



Done so far:

HVAC - lines run using flexible ductwork that is insulated to help reduce sound transmission.

Backup Sump - Water Powered does not need battery

Moved outside water from gutters pushed out at least 15' from the house.

I still need to build the partial wall and put in a couple of studs up to replace two pieces that bowed. Waiting on quote from electrician and then can work on insulation and drywall!

Hope to have more progress soon, but I know I will have questions as I go along. Thanks for looking and question and ideas are welcome...
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post #2 of 43
4/23/12 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
Ok I am looking at the theater area and looking at the next step of installing clips on the ceiling and I see this (Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic)



My question is how far away from the side wall can I have a clip? I've got a quote to move the water lines ($300) but then there is the gas line. I can put a clip between the two water lines, but I would have to use the lower performance (IE not whisper clips) becuase the width between the two is less the 4".

Second question is can I drywall the wall in the picture as is? There is going to be a gap between the steel beam and the ceiling. Soffit maybe?

I'm jealous of those that have a simple area free of obstacles!
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post #3 of 43
4/23/12 at 4:47pm
Steel beam, I have heard of guys shooting power activated fasteners into steel beams, I've never had the opportunity. Basically you would put some wood on the face of the steel beam bringing it out flush with the edge and use that in conjunction with the wall below the beam for hanging your drywall. In my basement the beam had a couple of holes and I used some bolts and nuts (countersunk) to hold the filler wood.

There are probably other ways and if you Google Adding wood to face of steel beam you might find some ideas how to attach it.

That clip could be 6-8 inches from the side wall. Put the ceiling layer up first and snug the walls up tight to help support the ends from the edge. I don't see any reason to move the gas pipe, move the others if you can't get a clip in the right position.
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post #4 of 43
4/24/12 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Steel beam, I have heard of guys shooting power activated fasteners into steel beams, I've never had the opportunity. Basically you would put some wood on the face of the steel beam bringing it out flush with the edge and use that in conjunction with the wall below the beam for hanging your drywall.

That's what I did! I used yellow loads for the nail gun. It worked really well. MMMKAM drilled a bunch of holes into his beam and it took him quite a while to do and more than a few drill bits. Nailing worked really, really well. Just remember hearing protection...firing the nail gun next to a steel beam made my ears ring the one time I forgot my hearing protection!
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post #5 of 43
4/24/12 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

That clip could be 6-8 inches from the side wall. Put the ceiling layer up first and snug the walls up tight to help support the ends from the edge. I don't see any reason to move the gas pipe, move the others if you can't get a clip in the right position.

Agreed. The clip + channel offers 1 5/8" of clearance for pipes. That comes in handy
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post #6 of 43
4/29/12 at 7:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Steel beam, I have heard of guys shooting power activated fasteners into steel beams, I've never had the opportunity. Basically you would put some wood on the face of the steel beam bringing it out flush with the edge and use that in conjunction with the wall below the beam for hanging your drywall. In my basement the beam had a couple of holes and I used some bolts and nuts (countersunk) to hold the filler wood.

I thought about the powder actuator tool but couldn't get past gas, water, and electric lines running right above the beam. I went ahead and got a hammer drill and three drill bits. Worked surprisingly well and only took about 20 minutes



Also got most of the bar wall done this weekend as well.



Should have the rest finished by the end of this week.
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post #7 of 43
5/5/12 at 4:30am
Thread Starter 
Had the electrician come out for final walk through. We struggled with recessed lighting for the other side of the basement because with the ductwork it was hard to fit cans.



I even found lights with only 2.5" height but my electrician did not like how they had to be wired (won't meet code). So crisis averted talked to HVAC guy and he will move the flex duct which will allow an even row of lighting on both sides of the main truck line.

New worry, the new ceiling looks great, but will it hold dd/gg? I'm thinking about going with quietrock. I know it's not the popular choice, but this might be a good application.
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post #8 of 43
5/5/12 at 5:22am
A lightweight ceiling won't hold the bass. You're looking for isolation. The finished ceiling will be about 5 pounds per square foot with DD and GG.

Also, thin drywall will sag on a ceiling, which is why in residential construction 5/8" is common on ceilings, and 1/2" on the walls. 5/8" makes a nice smooth ceiling.
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post #9 of 43
5/5/12 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I'm thinking about going with quietrock. I know it's not the popular choice, but this might be a good application.

I can't see a good application for that junk in the sound management world (except for the manufacturer who charges a lot for it). This game is all about mass. Take the advice from the experts on this forum and do the double drywall/green glue.

CJ
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post #10 of 43
5/5/12 at 6:31am
Thread Starter 
Ouch that what I was expecting to hear. There is a 5/8" version of quietrock under a different name but I am sure the comment will be the same.

I do understand the concept of mass, but my concern is if the ceiling can support the weight. I can hang from each span, but not sure if that is a definitive test for dd/gg...

While isolating sound is a primary goal, safety and long term integrity comes first.
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post #11 of 43
5/5/12 at 9:48am
Since you installed your 2x's flat, you can always add blocking between the 2x's and the floor joists above to provide mid-span support. That would effectively reduce the span that the 2x's need to support by transferring the weight to the floor joists above.

This is assuming you are still planning to use clips and channel and not trying to do a room within a room.
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post #12 of 43
5/5/12 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I can hang from each span, but not sure if that is a definitive test for dd/gg...

OK, easy problem...if you hang from the span in the middle, you can find out the lbs/sf by dividing the load (your weight) by the surface area of your hands (assuming you are hanging from your hands...this is your square footage). If there is no deflection, you have your weight rating in lbs/sf. Do this test in the middle of a span and you should be OK.

Look at how many of us hang our ceilings using clips and channel. There are very few points that are actually attached to the joists above.

Good luck!
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post #13 of 43
6/2/12 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 
Not much happened for a while. The electrician hurt his hand and set back progress a bit. He should be done though in a day or so then working on drywall quotes.

I still need to reinforce the ceiling, order soundproofing materials from Ted and put the clips and run speaker/cat6/HDMI up before drywall.

I did get a new tool though! I got a miter saw which I had my eye on when I get to the trim. While at Sears last weekend, I saw they had it on close out for $130! It retails for $250 and I usually saw it for $199 saw wife saw I wanted it and bam Happy Fathers day to me.



It comes with a tool that helps with the corners when doing trim so I am hoping it will make it easy for me.

I am really in a push to get the walls up. It's a kind of mental landmark where I feel it will make it seem the end is possible and within reach. I realize there is a lot to go at that point but it just seems like I can start seeing the goal line at that point...
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post #14 of 43
6/2/12 at 6:02pm
Back to your ceiling strength questions.

Multiply the distance from the center support to the end support. Then multiply that by the center-to-center spacing between the flat 2x4's. Looks like about an 8' span on 2' centers, so each flat 2x4 supports about 16 square feet of ceiling.

Ted says to figure about 5 lbs per square foot, multiplied by 16 square feet gives you about 80 pounds of ceiling, evenly distributed.

If you can hang that much weight from the 2x4 and not get much deflection, you should be good to go. Keep in mind that the ceiling weight is evenly distributed, whereas your weight hanging on the 2x4 is concentrated at one point. Distributed load will cause less deflection than a concentrated load.

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post #15 of 43
6/3/12 at 12:05pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, Ted is stating 5lbs per square foot. 5/8" drywall is 70lbs. Standard drywall is 4'x8' which is 32 square feet. 70 lbs/32 sq ft = 2.2 lbs/sq ft (rounded up). Double that and you have 4.4 lbs/sq ft (two layers of drywall). Ted is estimating a little over half a pound of GG per square foot = 5lbs/sq ft

I have 12' span 2x4s with a single center support holding them up. Each half span is holding 2 double sheets of drywall/GG. That is each 4 x 8 span is 160 lbs. each 6ft x 4 ft span is holding (160 x .75) 120 lbs. Divide it by 3 (16" on center spacing)supports and that's 40 lbs per half span load.

That seems much lower than my weight but not sure if I am missing something in the math...
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post #16 of 43
9/8/12 at 5:11am
Thread Starter 
Not much happened worth posting for a while but it's finally worth posting electrical roughing in, insulation up, low voltage routed, and >400 clips and >900 ft of hat channel up (that my friends was some work!) and ready for drywall!cool.gif




646b6018f0526ef0e0866df5d673d996.jpg
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post #17 of 43
9/8/12 at 5:13am
Thread Starter 
Side wall of theater channel runs length of basement side into the lounge area.
The entire ceiling of the basement has clips and hat channel as well. Logan also did the side walls but I followed Ted's suggestion.

bd0af3b2a0923d342b065e1d76c12375.jpg
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post #18 of 43
9/8/12 at 6:58am
Thread Starter 
I almost forgot to include the AVS traditional shot of green glue tongue.gif

utf-8BSU1HMDAxNTktMjAxMjA5MDgtMDg1MC5qcGc.jpg
just spoke to drywall guys and drywall is on its way
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post #19 of 43
9/8/12 at 12:10pm
Let me implore to you - fix those ceiling joists. Do them properly with 2x6s vertically. With 8' of room height to work with, you will never,ever,ever notice the extra 3" you took to do it right.
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post #20 of 43
9/8/12 at 1:22pm
Thread Starter 
Code:
Hi kromkamp

Which ceiling joists are you referring to?

Are you suggesting a ceiling in the theater room to use separate 2 x 6 s for the ceiling?


Jeff
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post #21 of 43
9/8/12 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post


Agreed. The clip + channel offers 1 5/8" of clearance for pipes. That comes in handy

He's got some sag in one of the flex duct lines (and so do I). Is extra support needed for flex duct to keep it away from the ceiling? Or will the channel brace the ducts and is that ok?
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post #22 of 43
9/10/12 at 7:30am
Those flat 2x4's - they are going to sag over time 100% if you add any kind of drywall
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post #23 of 43
9/10/12 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

Code:
Hi kromkamp
Which ceiling joists are you referring to?
Are you suggesting a ceiling in the theater room to use separate 2 x 6 s for the ceiling?
Jeff

I think he is looking at that picture showing flat boards spanning the ceiling. Your pic in post number 7.
Edited by BIGmouthinDC - 9/10/12 at 9:21am
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post #24 of 43
9/11/12 at 3:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I think he is looking at that picture showing flat boards spanning the ceiling. Your pic in post number 7

Ah I see, thanks Big. Well that side should be about 7'3" now with drywall installed. The carpenter did almost 5' from center beam lengths of the 2x4's on its side. It seems strong as I hung from every one of them to check.

Drywall is up and they finished taping and mudding today. They will be back to sand, mud, repeat in a day. I'm travelling so I will post pics when I get back.

It is a huge milestone and I am really excited moving forward. I know many of you will remind me I have not reached the summit and only have made it to base camp, but its a big hurdle mentally.
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post #25 of 43
9/16/12 at 6:34am
Thread Starter 
Not much to update, drwall is up and they are in the middle sanding and mudding.

I have been looking in the forum for how to deal with thicker walls when installing a door. Do prehung doors come with wide enough trim? My wall thickness is about 5 1/2".
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post #26 of 43
9/17/12 at 9:17am
Thread Starter 
Quick update of pictures of drywall up. It's great to see walls up!

Shot of Theater Room from Lounge area

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Looking in from opening

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Still wondering what people do about doors. I have looked but can't find how people are finding prehung doors with 6-7" width jambs...

I double checked this weekend where the channel is that I put up for the soffit so I can put up 2x2s ala Big and the Making the Bacon Theater construction. Hopefully I can get that done this weekend and maybe the stage.
Edited by LexMan - 9/17/12 at 11:58am
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post #27 of 43
9/17/12 at 10:25am
You can either build your own frame and hang the door yourself or check with your local lumber yard. They will special order doors from various manufacturers with the specs your looking for. Mine are Masonite doors with a 7 7/16" jamb and exterior door weatherstripping.
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post #28 of 43
10/3/12 at 4:10am
Thread Starter 
Update

Started on soffit and got the 2x2s up, MDF, and ladders.

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screen wall

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Looking through entry to room

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post #29 of 43
10/3/12 at 4:15am
Thread Starter 
I also started the blocking for the light tray borrowing heavily from Big. It took a bit of assembly work, but they are ready to go!

a0cc47f18262b4059e3c24745d4ced2b.jpg

I also called around yesterday and was able to find Benjamin Moore Black F215 80 Interior acrylic latex paint to use on the soffit. it is no longer in production it seems but I got lucky and found some.
Edited by LexMan - 10/3/12 at 3:16pm
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post #30 of 43
10/3/12 at 4:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexMan View Post

I also started the blocking for the light tray borrowing heavily from Big.

Borrow as much as you want. I've been inspired by many other projects myself. Just be sure they are short enough to be well hidden when standing on the riser. I think at the Bacon Race they were an inch or more shorter than the face of the light tray. If you are going to pull in a rope light, drill some holes now before the blocking goes up.
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