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Hawaii Home Theater Construction - Page 5

post #121 of 336
Sorry if you mentioned this but what town in Hawaii do you live?

I lived there for 3 years and eventually will move back. Great build so far.
post #122 of 336
Thread Starter 
Hi Chrap. Thanks for the comment on the build so far. It's in its infancy but hopefully it will go smoothly. I live in central O'ahu near the Mililani area.

As much as I'm sooooooo tired of construction on the house, getting into the theater and getting things going has been quite rejuvenating.

Here is a pic (although not the best quality pic) of the carpet going in:

carpet.png

The deep red is a bit traditional for a theater but the light center marks will match well with my Birds-eye Maple Aerial Acoustics speakers going in. smile.gif
Edited by psychdoc - 10/11/12 at 1:54pm
post #123 of 336
Thread Starter 
Hi Dennis,

Beautiful theater! I agree 100% regarding the ceiling. I am very concerned about weight there and will be utilizing every joist evenly. After all this work the last thing I want to worry about is having it crash down on my family.
post #124 of 336
Thread Starter 
Just for those out there doing the same thing…. Ted and Big’s suggestion of using a Chop Saw worked incredibly well-- thanks guys! In fact, the 22 gauge stood up quite well to the cutting and didn’t deform at all. As stated in their posts there is quite a spark shower so protective eyewear and clothing is a must (as well as hearing protection). eek.gif I’ve used a chop saw many times but never to cut metal but I was impressed with how easily and smoothly the correct blade cuts through the hat channel.

Thank you all for the interesting remarks regarding noise reduction. This type of discussion I find both interesting and helpful. For the sake of furthering that discussion with a final piece of information, I will share some helpful nuggets I just received in an email from the very helpful folks at Kinetics. I don’t wish to spark a big debate and I don’t wish to have this thread potentially sidetracked but I think it’s important to voice all sides of this controversial issue for those reading this down the road. More information can only help those with their own projects.

On the question of using more than the minimum IsoMax clips the response was:
“Adding clips in areas where weight is being added beyond the normal 1 or 2 layers of drywall is the correct thing to do and will not adversely affect sound control. The clips have limitations on capacity based on the gauge of furring channel so clips must be added where weights exceed maximum ratings.”

On the issue of 22 gauge vs 25 gauge furring channel the response was:
“Gauge of metal channels or studs is not acoustically important when using IsoMax clips.”

Again, I don’t bring this up as anything other than as an informative item that others may find helpful down the road. I also don’t bring this up to imply any other method is wrong. The one truth to this hobby is that there are many ways to skin a cat that ultimately yields a fantastic product. I still think, however, that this would be an easy research project if there were some peer reviewed journal of acoustics that deals with this type of issue as the field of medicine does with all their medically related questions. Until then I suspect the debate will live on…… Good luck to all. smile.gif
Edited by psychdoc - 10/11/12 at 2:17pm
post #125 of 336
Well, I've already commented on the topic.
post #126 of 336
Doc,

Ted, Dennis, and BIG are some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to soundproofing, home theater design, and home theater construction. As has already been stated, many tests have been done in certified laboratories regarding channel gauge. The 25 gauge is certainly the right product. The "research project" has already been done.

If you are already using the 22 gauge then there's no changing it, but other people that read this need to have the correct information.
post #127 of 336
He'll be fine and have a fantastic theater. Looking forward to the progress!
post #128 of 336
Oh, can you imagine? First, living in Hawaii and then having a gorgeous home theater to boot. If Spam was $8 a can, I'd call that heaven.
post #129 of 336
Thread Starter 
Hi BllDO,

It is paradise unless you have to get on the H-1 in the morning or afternoon (which I have to do). We have the worst traffic in the nation by a recent study I heard about on the radio. Other than that (and the exorbitant cost of living which is insane here in Hawaii), it is pretty darn good out here. As an officer in the Army I thankfully have lots of price breaks from shopping on base. I honestly don't know how the average joe can afford to live out here.
post #130 of 336
Thank you for your service.
post #131 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

It's Funny you say that, Last week they were filming in a house down the street.

We're visiting Hawaii in January ... will definitely be taking a photo in front of Five-O headquarters ! rolleyes.gif

Cheers,
post #132 of 336
Thread Starter 
Think nothing of it BllDo. I truly enjoy the life and teaching young military doctors at the large military medical center out here has been quite an honor although deployments are difficult on the family.

Peter… I saw signs up again recently so I know they were filming again in my area. I don’t watch much of the show but I’ve seen a few episodes due to the wife (she loves it). Enjoy your trip in January. If it's your first time make sure you get out of the Waikiki tourist trap area. The waves on the North shore should be HUGE! It’s quite the site if you haven’t seen that sort of thing before. Here are some other quick recommendations… easy hike to the top of Diamond Head, Windward side of the island… Kailua beach is a favorite of some (beautiful beach but no waves), Hanauma Bay (winter time snorkeling to see some amazing sights), Shark’s cove (summer version of Hanauma Bay and my favorite to get away from the crowds and see some amazing underwater wildlife just feet from the shore), and if you like live shows then the PCC (Polynesian Cultural Center) is good for a visit. Lots of other things to do depending on your age and fitness level (surfing, scuba diving, hiking) but if you can swing it…. hit some other islands. My favorites are Kauai and the Big Island followed by Lanai then probably Maui. Good luck and have fun (be mindful that the surf is deadly if you go into the big waves and you’re not an expert). Take care.
post #133 of 336
Wow! What an awesome build! I'm trying to find inspiration my parents to do something like this when they rebuild their house in the spring. I'll definitely be showing them this.

A couple questions, though, and I apologize if it's already been asked.

First, are your speakers going to be behind the screen? For such a high budget and seemingly audio/videophile setup, I would like to recommend other speakers. I've never heard the Aerial Acoustics, but one look at their specs tells me that there are likely significantly better speakers, especially for the money. In home theaters, speaker sensitivity is everything. Believe me, I was coming off some DIY speakers with about 90dB sensitivity and recently built some using JBL professional parts with a 99dB sensitivity. The difference is really incredible. Dynamics, clarity, soundstage, everything blows the less sensitive ones out of the water, both for music and movies. For a room that size, I'd suggest you look at JBL professional cinema speakers and an AT (acoustically transparent) screen. This will give you the ultimate audio experience. Another benefit is that the center channel is identical to the left and right. Centers turned sideways have loads of problems compared to their vertical counterparts. Here's the link to JBL pro's series. You can buy them pretty much from any JBL rep, but I've found Performance Audio has the best prices.

JBL Pro, Performance Audio

Whatever you get, if you get any of these (I'd recommend the 3732 for your size theater and budget. They're about $2500 a piece if I recall), buy three of them for the LCR and hid them behind the screen or behind some pretty looking cloth in the wall.

As for surrounds, just use the JBL cinema 8340 or 8350. You may have a look at Klipsch's pro offerings, but I don't know much about them.

Subwoofers with your budget, no brainer. Get a few JBL 4645C's (I have one - it is the best sub I've ever heard in a home theater) and then go rotary with the Thigpen TRW-17 crossed at 20Hz. Even with how expensive that rotary woofer is, you should still come out SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper, albeit MUCH better performing, than the Aerial Acoustics setup you have.

If you're stuck on why I would recommend more sensitive speakers over the Aerial Acoustics, just let me know. I'd be happy to explain why they're recommended.

Just my 2c! Good luck with the theater. I'm subscribed and really looking forward to seeing your progress. That Sony VW1000 looks incredible. I'm unbelievably jealous. biggrin.gif
post #134 of 336
Thank you for your service, Sir!

Congrats on your theater.
post #135 of 336
Thread Starter 
Hi Superleo. My pleasure thank you for the shoutout. Seriously though, I think it's the young 11B (Infantry) Soldier that has it the hardest.....any kudos to me should really go to them.

Hi to Frosteh as well. Aerial Acoustics are easy to read about on the web. There are plenty of reviews. I have their flagship speakers (20T) as well as their best center channel. The 20T's are very much overkill for a theater and are considered among some of the very best two channel speakers in the world. Of course, the value of speakers is subjective (sort of like beauty in the eye of the beholder). At the end of the day it's about what makes you happy.... nothing more. I have four Aerial SW12 subs going near each corner of the room as well as other Aerials that will eventually make a 11.4 system but I'm still waiting for a pre/pro that does all 11 channels. Until then I'll be running a 9.4 system. Oh, almost forgot..... my screen is not AT. The room is big enough not to need it (although that might be pretty cool to try down the road). Take care. More to follow......
Edited by psychdoc - 10/14/12 at 8:09pm
post #136 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Peter… I saw signs up again recently so I know they were filming again in my area. I don’t watch much of the show but I’ve seen a few episodes due to the wife (she loves it). Enjoy your trip in January. If it's your first time make sure you get out of the Waikiki tourist trap area. The waves on the North shore should be HUGE! It’s quite the site if you haven’t seen that sort of thing before. Here are some other quick recommendations… easy hike to the top of Diamond Head, Windward side of the island… Kailua beach is a favorite of some (beautiful beach but no waves), Hanauma Bay (winter time snorkeling to see some amazing sights), Shark’s cove (summer version of Hanauma Bay and my favorite to get away from the crowds and see some amazing underwater wildlife just feet from the shore), and if you like live shows then the PCC (Polynesian Cultural Center) is good for a visit. Lots of other things to do depending on your age and fitness level (surfing, scuba diving, hiking) but if you can swing it…. hit some other islands. My favorites are Kauai and the Big Island followed by Lanai then probably Maui. Good luck and have fun (be mindful that the surf is deadly if you go into the big waves and you’re not an expert). Take care.

Doc,

Many thanks for the info. My wife and I were in Hawaii about 20 years ago, but this is our first visit with the kids. Both boys and I are surf life savers here in Sydney so we're really looking forward to the surf !! Our first couple of nights are on Oahu and then it's off to the Big Island. Will probably rent a car to drive around Oahu.

Cheers,
post #137 of 336
Thread Starter 
Sounds like you one of the few that can go into that crazy surf on the North Shore during winter time and not die. Good luck and enjoy!!!!
post #138 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Hi Superleo. My pleasure thank you for the shoutout. Seriously though, I think it's the young 11B (Infantry) Soldier that has it the hardest.....any kudos to me should really go to them.
Hi to Frosteh as well. Aerial Acoustics are easy to read about on the web. There are plenty of reviews. I have their flagship speakers (20T) as well as their best center channel. The 20T's are very much overkill for a theater and are considered among some of the very best two channel speakers in the world. Of course, the value of speakers is subjective (sort of like beauty in the eye of the beholder). At the end of the day it's about what makes you happy.... nothing more. I have four Aerial SW12 subs going near each corner of the room as well as other Aerials that will eventually make a 11.4 system but I'm still waiting for a pre/pro that does all 11 channels. Until then I'll be running a 9.4 system. Oh, almost forgot..... my screen is not AT. The room is big enough not to need it (although that might be pretty cool to try down the road). Take care. More to follow......

I couldn't agree with you more. I've never heard the Aerials so I will believe you that they're worth their high price. As long as you've heard them and you're happy, that's what matters! I just assumed you hadn't heard them which is why I recommended the JBL's.

The Aerials will be even better since your screen isn't AT. Big JBL speakers are ugly as all hell, even though they sound good. The veneer on those will look great!
post #139 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

This pattern

is carrying this load ...



(Same climate).
We've done much higher loads including an old school plaster ceiling. The keys are:
(1) evenly distribute the load across all the structural members;
(2) calculate the weight per square foot and don't exceed the manufacturer's load bearing specifications.
In this case, I'd stagger those clips on the ceiling regardless of the Kinetics instructions to the cont 

        Mr Erskine, is their a link with more pictures of this home theater? And if so may i have it, i just love the look of that HT. Sorry if this is off topic but i feel i must ask, Your HT design and build are phenomal. Thank you sir!

post #140 of 336
Thread Starter 
As the hometheater continues to progress the rest of the house also progresses. Here is an update on the kitchen. It isn't complete as the builtin microwave hasn't gone in yet (our old tabletop is sitting in its place):
kitchengranite.jpg
post #141 of 336
Thread Starter 
More updates;
Here is a wall just about complete with insulation. Notice all the outlets have been coated with a red clay:
htinsulation2.jpg

That red clay is part of the package from kinetics. It's like a sticky play-doh that surrounds the thin gangbox and makes it airtight and provides a helpful layer of soundproofing that will assist in minimizing the noise that would otherwise come spraying through every outlet. Here is an upclose pic
htoutletclay.jpg

Finally, here is the stack of MDF that will be going on to all the walls and ceiling. It will provide easy attachment points everywhere for speakers, soffit, projector, etc. The stuff is heavy.... real heavy. It was a great back and arm workout moving that stack of monster wood.
htmdfstack.jpg

The plan is to fill in the ceiling with insulation and begin putting on the MDF this weekend. I'm going to be very tired I suspect......
post #142 of 336
Ah, yes. Clips, channel, putty pads... Seems like a long time ago for me, and I'm still not done. I would NOT have liked to move that stack of MDF. One thing's for sure. Your room will have mass! biggrin.gif

Can't wait to see how it turns out!
post #143 of 336
Thread Starter 
GWCR- how long have you been working on yours? I'm hoping there is some light at the end of the tunnel for me. I'm REALLY hoping that my project will be completed by the SuperBowl so I can see my Patriots (hopefully) battle it out again but that will only happen if they somehow fix their secondary .

So you live in CR? I had a great time living in Iowa for college and medical school. And yes, my undergrad was Iowa State...... (we gotcha this year). Unfortunately, all the years I was actually there to see the games in person - late 80's and early 90's- ISU was pretty bad. Still, the entire state of Iowa will always have a warm place in my heart. Take care.
post #144 of 336
n00b questions.

are you using the MDF instead of drywall or am I missing something? If that is the case, what's the benefit?
post #145 of 336
Thread Starter 
I'm using both. The lower layer will be MDF and the top surface will be regular drywall. Each one will be offset to ensure seams are covered up and the most sound possible is trapped. Ordinarily Kinetics suggests using two layers of drywall. In my situation I need lots of points of contact in the room for a large wall mounted tv behind the projection screen, hard points for the projector, speakers on walls, a star ceiling, soffit around the edge of the room, etc. Having a hard board underneath the drywall allows for an infinite number of attachment points and also reduces large holes into the lower studs that would leak sound. This wasn't my idea. I read a recent article in Home Theater just a month or so ago and it made great sense to me and I went with it. The article actually suggested plywood and I ran that part of the idea by the folks at Kinetics Noise Control. They suggested using MDF instead due to better resonance profile of MDF when compared to plywood. One problem is that MDF weighs a LOT! It's a little under 100 lbs per sheet which is a lot more than plywood. This might be a problem with ceilings that can't take the extra weight. It should be less of a problem on walls as the weight of the MDF and Drywall sits on a special insulation strip that then sits directly on the floor when it is then attached to the wall. In effect, much less of the weight should actually be on the wall. The ceiling is a different story. There is no way around that one, all the weight will be pulling straight down.

Oh, I almost forgot.... one last benefit; it will add mass to the wall. When everything is done the walls will be VERY thick and heavy. That, coupled with detached walls and ceiling, should really reduce the sound. I don't know how much more STC rating it will add but my original plans via Kinetics Noise Control come out to 61 STC. So maybe I get one or more points....maybe 62+ STC, who knows.
Edited by psychdoc - 11/1/12 at 6:44pm
post #146 of 336
thank you for the thorough answer. That really cleared up my question and makes perfect sense. I am used to seeing the DD and have read quite a bit on it, but in my limited AVS exposure had yet to see this method. Now my curiosity has been piqued, and will now do what all real AVS'ers would do... go spend obsessive amounts of time try to find and read more about the potential advantages/disadvantages of this method, lol.

Can't wait to continue to watch this build!
post #147 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

GWCR- how long have you been working on yours? I'm hoping there is some light at the end of the tunnel for me. I'm REALLY hoping that my project will be completed by the SuperBowl so I can see my Patriots (hopefully) battle it out again but that will only happen if they somehow fix their secondary .
So you live in CR? I had a great time living in Iowa for college and medical school. And yes, my undergrad was Iowa State...... (we gotcha this year). Unfortunately, all the years I was actually there to see the games in person - late 80's and early 90's- ISU was pretty bad. Still, the entire state of Iowa will always have a warm place in my heart. Take care.
I've been at it off and on since February 2012. There have been 2-3 week stretches in there where I haven't been able to get anything done, but I'm at a point now where everything I do shows visual progress. I've accepted that I won't have it done by Thanksgiving, but hopefully soon after.
Always good hearing from people who have actually spent a good deal of time in Iowa. Glad you enjoyed your time here (even if it was in Ames tongue.gif). From the looks of your pics, Hawaii might be almost as nice as it is here...rolleyes.gif
Keep the progress rolling!
post #148 of 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Finally, here is the stack of MDF that will be going on to all the walls and ceiling. It will provide easy attachment points everywhere for speakers, soffit, projector, etc. The stuff is heavy.... real heavy. It was a great back and arm workout moving that stack of monster wood.
htmdfstack.jpg
The plan is to fill in the ceiling with insulation and begin putting on the MDF this weekend. I'm going to be very tired I suspect......

That is one expensive stack of supplies. eek.gif What made you go with MDF instead of cheaper OSB?
post #149 of 336
Thread Starter 
Here is some progress. I thought I was going to be fatigued but I am totally exhausted! Lifting and moving 3/4" MDF by myself has not been enjoyable. I still have a lot more to do frown.gif
IMG_0816.jpg
post #150 of 336
Good god that's a lot of MDF. I thought moving a couple sheets to build some speakers was bad. Why did you go with MDF instead of some form of sound insulating drywall, such as the stuff green glue offers? I'll be building a theater in my parents' new home next year and I'm trying to figure out how to best soundproof it.
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