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Hawaii Home Theater Construction - Page 16

post #451 of 755
I was JUST going to say the exact same thing...rolleyes.gif
post #452 of 755
Thread Starter 
Wow Jim..... lots of great info. Diagrams are awesome!!!!! Are you taking a Hawaii vacation anytime soon???? I could lesson the pain of the cost with some side consulting time biggrin.gif

I read it once but I'll need to read it about 5 more times tonight and do some research to soak it all in. I can't wait to figure it all out. A big MAHALO from out in the middle of the Pacific ocean!
post #453 of 755
Thread Starter 
I thought I would add your diagrams for easy viewing for all...

post #454 of 755
Another thought. If the Sapele ply joint doesn't get hidden, a section of ply could be cut out, with the saw cuts behind where the stiles are actually placed and replaced with a solid piece of ply. ...Figure out what panel sizes look best and have some consistency around the room and then worry about the joints. This is where you tell me that each piece of ply is held by 3 tubes of liquid nails!biggrin.gif

Stile - as in a paneled door, the vertical frame pieces that run the height of the door (that the hinges and hand set are in). In your case applied on top of the Sapele ply.
Rail - as in the door, the horizontal frame pieces that fit between the stiles at the top and bottom and between any multiple panels. Again, on top of the Sapele ply.
Panel - the inset flat or raised thinner piece that fits into the dado cut in the edge of the stile and rail. In your case the existing Sapele ply

The script for medicating my wife so that I could get a dog AND be in the house would be enough. biggrin.gif As it stands, if I got the dog, WE'D be living in the garage. frown.gif

Glad to help. Collectively working through your problems helps all of us theater builder want-to-be's. You might say we are vicariously living through your build, without the pinch on our wallet! biggrin.gif
post #455 of 755
Jim , would living in the garage really be that bad ? You'd have a great roll up or swing up projector screen built in with nothing blocking it , easy to wire in your power for equipment , and don't need to bother with soundproofing . For me that would be a " please don't throw me in the briar patch" situation . Sitting on the couch , rebuilding a motorcycle head watching a big screen with the dog chewing on his leg next to me. Oh , wait , I do that now in my livingroom , just have to go down to the garage for some tools.cool.gif
I like the suggestion of taking the stile and rail approach if the joints need to be hidden , more integrated into the sapele panels that are there rather than sitting on top . With this wood I just have a hard time visualizing styles that have traditionally used North American and European woods .
Psych , are there any Polynesian or tropical builds around you that have interesting woodwork that you could sample? Lodges , temples , cultural centers that might open up some ideas?
post #456 of 755
Thread Starter 
Jim, great reading once again!! I Didn't use liquid nails but I did use an adhesive to ensure no rattles when the subs were firing off. It adds a lot of fun when trying modifications after the fact. biggrin.gif

A little mixture of Haldol and Ativan and your wife won't mind you getting a horse, never mind a well trained dog (of course she will be asleep most of the day but nothing is perfect, right? wink.gif I'll be reading your posts again tonight and then consider all options for hopefully an improved molding plan.

Today, I've been working on my staircase... my very first staircase (like everything else in this entire project). Many of you would think this is no big deal, but I'll be impressed if no one becomes paralyzed within a week of completion. wink.gif Seriously though, I'm pretty happy with it but it is taking life at a snail's pace.
post #457 of 755
Thread Starter 

The only thing out here that is a big deal is Hawaiian Koa wood and the things they do with it. I've seen a couple of places that went wild with it; the church at Kamehameha (my wife is part Hawaiian and she went to school there so I've been there a few times) and the Bishop Museum. I'm sure there are others but I haven't seen them. I've been told that a simple table made from the solid Koa runs around 20-40K, likely one reason wood work isn't huge out here. rolleyes.gif I guess that is the real problem, I'm trying to come up with a solution but I've really never seen many complete room examples.
post #458 of 755
Acras, you haven't seen my garage. eek.gif It's FULL of stuff. It's 20 x 32 and I can't even keep my bicycle in there any more. She who must be obeyed has suggested that I'm pack rat...

There are areas of Toronto that did use Mahogany for stile and rail paneled walls in dining rooms, studies and foyers. I hear what you are saying about integrating the stiles and rails into the panels rather than applying it on top, but by the time the cove is installed as a panel mould, you'd never tell the difference. The panels wouldn't be book matched, but the grain is consistent enough that it wouldn't be noticed. Just don't point it out to Psychdoc or it'll be the only thing he sees.wink.gif
post #459 of 755
Thread Starter 
Here are some more updates. And yes, there are a lot of outlets. They will be directly behind my Fortress seating which will make them out of sight and are for the convenience of anyone with a laptop or other powered device, to power my motorized Fortress seating, and for LED trim lighting on the stairs. smile.gif

post #460 of 755
I have used Koa before and it looks beautiful. Most of the stuff I have seen builders make from Koa was small. Outside of Hawaii I have seen some very large tables made with it.
post #461 of 755
Thread Starter 
Hi Chrapladm.... yes, Hawaiian Koa is beautiful! Hard to come by from what I hear. Those large tables you saw must have cost a pretty penny I'm guessing.

Some more photos (I'm done for the day) smile.gif This staircase is rattle proof and tornado proof, not that we get any tornadoes out here but it has been overbuilt to withstand four Aerial Acoustic SW12 Subs rumbling at high levels. biggrin.gif

post #462 of 755
Coming along well. In regards to your design choices if you are interested I did a board and batten style wainscot with dark stained poplar and red fabric above. (Typically board and batten is closer and taller but I'm not sure what you'd call mine). Outside the theater I did a more traditional paneling which include base cap for a more traditional look. Pics are in my thread.

You could always cut a bit of your sapele to get an idea and see if you like it. I did that with some left over wood when I was trying to decide if I wanted to continue the wainscot onto the screen wall.
post #463 of 755
Thread Starter 
Thanks Design! By the way, you are a brilliant man with the finest taste in carpets!!! Simply top notch, second to none, a leader among men (I'm using what appears to be the same carpet biggrin.gif ).

As far as the molding goes, the more examples I can scrape together, more I am able to put a plan together. It's amazing how much is out there, the more I learn the more I realize I don't know... I guess that makes me competently incompetent as far as molding is concerned. Hopefully I can improve upon that as I proceed....... Thanks again for another valuable data point!
post #464 of 755
Thread Starter 
Electrical is now done (and working biggrin.gif) and ready for carpet. My first staircase completed! I want a lip off of the front of the top step (concrete) so I can hide my LED lights under it. Not quite sure how to do that but I'll make something up I guess. I'll probably drill a wooden plate on the front face of the concrete solely on the two large step sections. We'll see I guess....

Edited by psychdoc - 6/26/13 at 12:34pm
post #465 of 755
So I guess we're looking at stained concrete on the top deck and not OSB? Assuming the concrete is dry and cured, you can glue a 1" nosing profile onto the concrete and reinforce it with 3 or 4 concrete screws/ step (and not so closely space between the steps). The concrete screws should extend about 1 1/2" into the concrete. Use something like PL Premium from LePages which works specifically with wood and concrete. http://lepageproducts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=84

What I'm "going to be" doing (I also have a poured step, 2' high) is facing the concrete with plywood held on with concrete screws to provide a nailing/tacking (for carpeting) backer. The nosing could be attached with carpenter's glue and screws through the back of the 3/4" ply. You are putting the nosing right across the landing for ease of carpeting...right? biggrin.gif
post #466 of 755
Thread Starter 
Um……. Um…….. Of course I was going to take care of the carpet guy. wink.gif I was actually going to do something like you mentioned but only on the large landing sections and not all the way across the stair. I figured the carpet guy would have some sort of do-hickee tool that I’ve never seen that would allow him to put carpet anywhere, including over concrete. Better to hear it now then later….. another VERY helpful tip from Jim! Do you take credit card, or cash only? Seriously though, thank you. smile.gif

On to your suggestion…. I did a little scribble session and came up with these two variations. It seems you are suggesting version “B” (bottom). Wouldn’t the top, version “A” be stronger, or what you are doing in your version (placing the lip on the plywood and drilling it from behind)? It will naturally shrink my step by at least ¾” but it is currently 13” if you count the lip so it is a pretty big step and could lose a little length.

And yes, I’ve spilled every known substance on the concrete. I often worry that if my small children walk around in the room with their bare feet they’d be stuck like a rat on one of those sticky traps eek.gif . It was poured 15 months ago so I am assuming it can be drilled into (I have already without any difficulties so far).

Edited by psychdoc - 6/25/13 at 12:20pm
post #467 of 755
One of my first summer jobs back when I was 16 was working with a carpet layer. They hate concrete. Wait a minute... no that was me. I had to fight to get the gripper board nailed to the concrete floors. Sometimes they had to be contact cemented. If the nosing didn't go right across, there would be an awkward corner as they tried to transition from the nose to the "straight down". Where will the carpet end? Under the nosing or does it extend down to the next step and beyond?

Your sketch "B" was my first idea. It would normally only extend out 1" and be 1" high, basically like a half dowel (found in the moulding department as a "Bull Nose"). You want to put LED's under it, so extend it out to what you need and increase the height a bit to make it more stable. But it should be the same projection as the lower step. Make it out of 1 1/2" material and run a 3/4"round-over bit over top and bottom, to make your own bull nose with more width. Your "A" would actually act like a lever and split the plywood with time (...couple of weeks, I hear one of the patrons is a pretty big guy!). It would be stronger to apply the nose to the front face of the ply with glue and screws. It wouldn't hurt to use some glue to hold the plywood to the concrete as well as the screws.

The carpet could get attached in one of two styles. Tucked under the nose and tacked and cut with a separate piece applied on the riser, glued if on concrete or tacked if plywood, which extends down the riser and across the next step and repeats the process over the next nosing. This makes the cleanest, tightest fit around the nose. An alternative method is to simply tack the carpet under the nose and bend it down the riser and on... This is not as tight under the nose and gets mooshier the thicker (and therefore stiffer) the carpet is. These are two variations on the first style. If he uses gripper board at the bottom, the plywood would keep you from being the subject of a voodoo doll or the like. If you used Sapele as the riser, you could stop the carpet under the nose. But then the lower step would need a Sapele riser...

The second style is to let the carpet come off the nose, and "cascade", pulled tight down to the next tread and tacked in the corner of the tread and riser (preferably with gripper board). This is difficult if you don't have the thickness of the ply because the staples will be trying to hold on the edge of the tread where it hits the concrete. And not well. and usually they would want to throw a few staples into the bottom of the riser. You can't use this style because the bottom step has an outside corner that would be a problem.

The 13" tread is not actually a step but a filler under the back slope of the chair back to put the outlets in...yes? Does it matter if it is 3/4" narrower? I guess it would be 3/4" plus the nose...

15 months is very good. Concrete should reach 95% of rated strength in 28 days. I'm still babying mine after 2 years...I've got plastic down in the area that I am staining balusters right now. I currently plan to green glue plywood down over the concrete floors.

Ha! You think this free? cool.gif I'll let you and a few others know when I get going on mine and I'll be whimpering for advice on the complicated stuff like acoustical/optical layout and design and your experience on what seems to works and what doesn't. biggrin.gif Yes, I have the shell, 16' x 26' x 11' stepping to 9' (makes a great shop since I ran out of room in my garage!), but I don't have a snappy name. And how can I start without a theater name? So you are safe for now! smile.gif (oh yes, and the spousal unit said I had to go make some more money before I can start...frown.gif We've just "finished" an addition with "my" dream kitchen (OK, guess who does the cooking). So, I've been working mostly at home for three years now. Yup it's time!redface.gif)
post #468 of 755
Looking closely at the lower step. It is only 3/4" thick. That is pretty tight to get carpet wrapped around without a lot of words your kids shouldn't hear yet. You might add a strip of ply to the under side to beef it up to 1 1/2".
post #469 of 755
Thread Starter 
Thanks again Jim!!!!! Geez, it sounds like you don't need to do much prepping other than some reading on acoustics. I had to read about everything and still bug people like you, my dad, local friends, and anyone else that has ever done any carpentry/construction. If you have the space, start working on your theater now.... you won't regret it. As far as the wife factor is concerned.... tell her you have a deal to make with her. You will give up the dog if you can start on the theater. It’s a done deal! I can say with 100% confidence that when I started out with this dream of making my theater the wife was only passively going along with it in the hope that I would never ask for a transfer to a different Army medical center (she is part Hawaiian and grew up here..... those folks are like ticks dug in on this island.... they NEVER leave eek.gif !!!!). Yesterday, for the first time ever, she told me to get to work on the theater (instead of help her with the kids). I suspect she wants to have a regular girl’s night in the theater. I don’t know how many times she and her friends can watch “Magic Mike” but I’m sure it will be more than 20. Hopefully it won’t be too often. When you do tackle your theater if I can help at all, please count me in. smile.gif

You are correct; the 13” tread has two purposes…. primarily to house the outlets and for safety if anyone were to fall off of that concrete edge (even though it’s only a 1 ft drop, it still sucks to fall off of it). As such, it can be easily reduced a little bit (the 13” stair looked rather large anyway but it was very comfortable to walk on it).

The lever action of the screw into the wood in version ”A” actually makes sense especially with my big body walking on it constantly. I’ve already cut the wood so for a version “A” so I guess I will do version “A” with additional screws via version “B”. That should be pretty darn strong. I’ll also be using a very thick pad under the carpet that I’m guessing will assist greatly if there are any turns that are too tight.
Edited by psychdoc - 6/26/13 at 11:59pm
post #470 of 755
OY! Your moving too fast for me to get my responses in AND get some sleep. Since you have gone with (sigh) plan "A" put some concrete screws through the nose, into the concrete as in your plan "B" sketch. Don't skimp on the glue! I hope the nose is at least solid wood and not plywood.
post #471 of 755
Thread Starter 
Sleep? Who needs sleep when a theater needs to be made? Thanks again for the input.

I spent today's construction time today buying the necessary supplies to finish the step and install my two doors. I've been watching every youtube video on installing a non-prehung door.... first time for me doing this as well. This will be a piece of cake. rolleyes.gif I'll take lots of photos as I go for all the new guys out there like me. Hopefully some can learn from my ongoing struggle and the great advice given by the experienced forum members here. More to follow as always smile.gif
post #472 of 755
I forgot my painter was coming yesterday and I also didn't realize it was 5 when I went to bed, so it was a very short night...maybe I should be called Nightlord II! biggrin.gif

I've seen a number of doors hung on here...eek.gif Just remember 7/11. The top hinge starts at 7" down and the bottom hinge top is 11" up from the bottom of the door, assuming a 4" hinge, which is what you should using for a 1 3/4" door. Yes, the two hinges end up being 7 inches from the ends of the door! The middle hinge should be centered between the two... Or are you going with the four hinges? Then mark the centres and they should be equally spaced. Assuming you don't have access to a door jig, set the hinges on the door first. After setting the tops of all the hinges, mark it with a sharp knife like an Olfa knife. Use a hinge to mark the length, with the hinge bent to 90 degrees, it will sit square on the door. Use a combination square set to the back set of the hinge (4" hinge would be 1 1/2") and slide it down 4" scoring a light line with the knife. If you try to go too heavy on the first pass, the knife may follow the grain. Now score a second and third time getting harder and harder, then go to your 1 1/2" chisel and go down the length of the hinge mortise going in to about the thickness of the hinge. This will make it easier to chip out the material. When all four door leafs are set with 2 screws (pre-drill the screws, they will hold better), put the door in the 'open position", shimmed to the right height (3/32" down!!!) and transfer the 3 or 4 hinge tops to the corner of the jamb. This takes away the guess work and measure'n mistakes. smile.gif Always use an actual hinge to mark the length of the hinge...they are often not what they should be. Oh yes, until you have hung a "few" doors you should also mark a line for the depth of the hinge thickness on the edge of the door or jamb. biggrin.gif Easy peesy.

I want to see those hinges fitting tight and flush soldier! smile.gif
post #473 of 755
Are the door stops going on separately? Or does the door fit in a rebate like an exterior door? If the stop is separate then it gets positioned, along with any rubber seals after the door is installed; looser on the hinge side than the latch side. If it is going into a rebate, you need to pay special attention to how much space you need for the rubber seals. And position the hinge rebates in or out accordingly.
post #474 of 755
"Door rebate" is the same as "door rabbet" I had to Google that one, too...
post #475 of 755
Thread Starter 
I'm glad I wasn't the only one.

I spent the whole night just on the threshold ...... Ridiculous.

Great advice Jim (as always). I have a weird variation question regarding my door for you.... I'll post that tomorrow. Good night all. smile.gif
post #476 of 755
Thread Starter 
Ok, Jim (or anyone else out there with construction experience)…… here it is: top view looking down at my door. The door jamb is a full 12” wide. I’ll have a heavy ETO Mahogany door on each side. Each side will open into that proximal room. Any problems???? Any suggestions when putting this together? This type of door probably shouldn’t be my first attempt at a door but, heck, it’s par for the course so far….

post #477 of 755
For starters you would need to split the full jamb in two, keeping a minimum of 1/8" of separation as not to ruin your double wall decoupling.

A second solid door with all the proper seals will help, but you could also be making investment in more mass by beefing up the door thickness with 1/2" MDF on both sides, adding Green Glue between the layers.

Zero international seals all around on both doors and you'll be good to go.
post #478 of 755
Thread Starter 
Hi TMcG. Good to hear from you again. smile.gif I totally agree with you regarding the seals. I already have a kit for each door that I purchased from Zero. They each will be on the jamb side of the door (facing each other on the inside). I'm more worried about any unknown construction building code regarding my setup (for example: I want the doors to open as shown in the diagram, or do I need to have them both open from the left side or the right side.... stuff like that). I don't know what I don't know. Also, with two doors on the same jamb, are there any tricks that builders use to avoid pitfalls of this particular door example. Right now I plan on copying what I've seen in youtube videos and what Jim wrote above but do it twice, once for each side. One obvious problem is when I hear advice like.... "always shim the hinge side first". Both sides of the jamb are hinge sides in my setup. rolleyes.gif

I plan on using solid Sapele for the door jamb which could look spectacular if this goes as planned so I'm hoping not to cut it up into two different sections. With these two heavy doors and two door seal kits, any sound that escapes should be minimal at most and the way the house is arranged, it really won't bother anyone.
post #479 of 755
LIke some of your previous questions on the steps, the electrical in the riser, etc. . . . I would ask your local building inspector first because they will ultimately be telling you what to do. This falls into one of those "non-standard" areas where it will then be left to the inspector for interpretation.

The whole point of the double wall is decoupling, of course. Having the jamb firmly attached to both sets of walls essentially recouples the assembly. If you split the jamb, each would then be mounted independently. The gap can be covered by affixing a molding on just one side and having it extend past the gap. THe choice is yours, of course...and to your point there is not that much energy coming through just one jamb. However, you've gone through what I would call extreme efforts to make this theater a soundproof bunker, including double doors. I wouldn't let a split jamb deter you from achieving the ultimate in soundproofing, especially at the weakest part of the sound envelope. That's just me, though.

I'll be interested to see how it all comes together. Have a good weekend! And by the way, I'll be starting back on my own project next week!
post #480 of 755
I agree that you should split the jamb so the the doors are decoupled.
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