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My Challenge: Is it possible to design a high WAF home theatre computer set up? Need

post #1 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:02pm
Thread Starter 
I want to create a kick ass 3 room home theatre computer set up. I have been thinking about this for a LONG time and doing lots of research on the internet and have assembled some components over the last few months. But there are SO MANY options and devices I'm having a hard time sorting what components, platform, set up I should go with.
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post #2 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:03pm
You might want to start with what components you already have and what you're trying to achieve. I don't really see a specific question here that can be answered.
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post #3 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:05pm
Thread Starter 
I am in a 2 BR apartment and have 3 TV locations (living room, 2 bedrooms).

Looks like this (attached)
LL
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post #4 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:06pm
Thread Starter 
My over all goals:
- Reduce my cable bill
- Local media sharing (TV, movies, music, photos)
- DVR'ing Cable TV
- Streaming Service Options (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Roku, Apple, Others)
- Internet browsing on each TV
- Remote access to My Media when not at Home
- Easy to operate for wife, kids
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post #5 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
So far I have these components (but plan to buy more)
- Cat 5 wiring to each location
- Roku (1st Gen)
- 2 Apple TVs (1st Gen)
- HDHomerun Prime
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post #6 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Items I am considering
- New Home PC purchase (maybe Lenovo Idea Center A720)
- Thin Clients or Compact Desktop (Lenovo Idea Center Q180)
- Hacking Apple TV 1
- Newer Roku or Apple TV 3
- External Storage for Media
- Remote Controls via iPhone, iPad, Android Phone or Tablet
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post #7 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
I got the HD HomeRun Prime because I want to be able to record nice quality TV on on my Home Computer and share throught out the house on TVs. But it looks like I will need to get a Thin Client or Compact Desktop (like a Lenovo Idea Center Q180) for each TV.

I see that Thin Clients don't seem to have HDMI but some Compact units do. I would like to stick with HDMI since I already have 3 HDMI cables run thru the wall at each TV.

WHat are the other PROS and CONS of Thin Clients or Compact Desktop that I should evaluate for that I'm looking to do?

Share Media, Streaming Online Services, Remote Controls?

Thanks
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post #8 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
What Windows 7 version and features should I have for my needs?

TV Tunner,
DVR Live TV,
Save my DVDs, Blu-Ray
Share Media in house,
Streaming Online Services,
Remote Controls,
Remote Access to Media outside home
?

What specs does my Windows 7 PC need to have to successfully power all these options?
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post #9 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:25pm
I would recommend starting by looking at assassins guides linked at the top of the page. You may also want to consider a storage server solution to feed all your computers.
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post #10 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:31pm
Thread Starter 
What should I do this these old Apple TVs?

Should I hack them using ATV Flash to get more features?

Can I used them as Storage of Files on my Network?

What Streaming Online Services can I get after ATV Flash?

Can I save non_apple file formats on them for playback after ATV Flash?

How many items on my list could I complete with after using ATV Flash?
Save my DVDs, Blu-Ray
Share Media in house,
Streaming Online Services,
Remote Controls,
Remote Access to Media outside home


Would I be better getting Apple TV 3?
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post #11 of 40
4/22/12 at 3:43pm
It kinda depends on your budget. If I were you I'd have a single storage server that runs WHS and FlexRaid and store all my media on there. Then build 3 HTPC's. A main one that's connected to your main TV, and 2 smaller ones for the other TV's. The smaller ones can be built for relatively cheap, you could use a mini-atx mobo, an intel G630 processor, 4 gigs of RAM and a small SSD for the OS. All are completely customizable and capable of playing all of your media.

Since you seem like an Apple guy you can install Plex for movies and also give yourself access to remote media. I'm not sure if Plex can do live TV but everybody uses WMC for it and loves it.
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post #12 of 40
4/22/12 at 4:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

If I were you I'd have a single storage server that runs WHS and FlexRaid and store all my media on there. Then build 3 HTPC's. A main one that's connected to your main TV, and 2 smaller ones for the other TV's.

General Question: I understand a stand alone custom built Server would be nice. But would a new Windows 7 PC desktop (with proper internals) running WMC do a good job of "serving" my other TVs?

Trying to better understand the trade offs between having a main server or using the media boxes (Roku, Apple TV) to pull media from a Windows 7 desktop PC?

It is performance? Other things I need to be aware of?

Thanks
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post #13 of 40
4/22/12 at 4:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars99 View Post

I would recommend starting by looking at assassins guides linked at the top of the page. You may also want to consider a storage server solution to feed all your computers.


Ok I'll take a look. I am fairly technical competent, but after taking a quick peek, I'm over whelmed but the available options / solutions in those guides. And I looking to get input on the right direction and finding the right mix of solutions that would work best for me. THen sink in to a solution in a guide.
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post #14 of 40
4/22/12 at 5:07pm
One thing you do not want to overlook when making your decision...who is your content provider? That will have a huge impact on your overall TV architecture.
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post #15 of 40
4/22/12 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

.who is your content provider? That will have a huge impact on your overall TV architecture.

I'm in NYC and Currently have Time Warner Cable and 30 mbps wideband internet
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post #16 of 40
4/22/12 at 5:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHomeNet View Post


I'm in NYC and Currently have Time Warner Cable and 30 mbps wideband internet

TWC will greatly hamper your content portability as they flag all content, other than the local channels, as Copy Once, meaning that:
Any Copy Once recording will only be playable on the machine on which it was recorded or attached media center extenders (xbox).
Any Copy Once recording cannot be processed by automatic commercial skipping application.
Any Copy Once recording cannot be burned onto a DVD or other portable playback device.
TWC generally uses SDV requiring external tuning adapters. They use Cisco TAs which, YMMV, have a reputation for being problematic.

Welceome to the wonderful world of DRM...the turd in the punchbowl that is HTPCs.
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post #17 of 40
4/22/12 at 5:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

TWC will greatly hamper your content portability as they flag all content, other than the local channels, as Copy Once, meaning that:
Any Copy Once recording will only be playable on the machine on which it was recorded or attached media center extenders (xbox).
Any Copy Once recording cannot be processed by automatic commercial skipping application.
Any Copy Once recording cannot be burned onto a DVD or other portable playback device.
TWC generally uses SDV requiring external tuning adapters. They use Cisco TAs which, YMMV, have a reputation for being problematic.

Welceome to the wonderful world of DRM...the turd in the punchbowl that is HTPCs.

If you use extenders, the DRM problem mostly goes away. Obviously this means adding more devices. In your case, you might want to consider waiting until the Ceton Echo comes out. It will act as a extender, playback all of your media, and most likely also have Netflix and other content streaming services.
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post #18 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post


You might want to consider waiting until the Ceton Echo comes out. It will act as a extender, playback all of your media, and most likely also have Netflix and other content streaming services.

That Ceton Gear looks nice. But yet another device / set up to think about. Geeze. Any ideas on price of Ceton stuff?
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post #19 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

Welcome to the wonderful world of DRM...the turd in the punchbowl that is HTPCs.

Ha. DRM is the Party pooper perhaps.
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post #20 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHomeNet View Post

That Ceton Gear looks nice. But yet another device / set up to think about. Geeze. Any ideas on price of Ceton stuff?

I believe Ceton has said it's suppose to compete with the Xbox 360, so probably $200 or less. It will definitely be cheaper than an HTPC. HTPC's are great, but once you get into Cablecard, copy once protection, multiple TVs, etc., things get much more complicated and frustrating. The Ceton Echo could solve all of these problems and do almost everything an HTPC is meant to do, but in a much more stable fashion with less maintenance and setup. We won't know for sure until it's released, but if you plan on revamping your entire house, it can't hurt much to wait.
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post #21 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

TWC will greatly hamper your content portability as they flag all content, other than the local channels, as Copy Once, meaning that:
Any Copy Once recording will only be playable on the machine on which it was recorded or attached media center extenders (xbox).

If the Apple TVs runs WMC would that function as a Media Center Extender and allow me to view the content on other TVs?

I guess there are Media Center Extender "channels" on the Roku?
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post #22 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHomeNet View Post

If the Apple TVs runs WMC would that function as a Media Center Extender and allow me to view the content on other TVs?

I guess there are Media Center Extender "channels" on the Roku?

The only windows media center extender right now is the Xbox 360. The Ceton Echo will be the 2nd when it comes out.
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post #23 of 40
4/22/12 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHomeNet View Post


If the Apple TVs runs WMC would that function as a Media Center Extender and allow me to view the content on other TVs?

I guess there are Media Center Extender "channels" on the Roku?

Nope and nope
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post #24 of 40
4/22/12 at 10:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFHomeNet View Post

General Question: I understand a stand alone custom built Server would be nice. But would a new Windows 7 PC desktop (with proper internals) running WMC do a good job of "serving" my other TVs?

Yes.

In fact, after you've gone around and danced with all the other girls, acknowledge that this is the one you'll end up taking home to mother. There is no other realistic choice to serve your needs.

7MC box centrally located doing all the recording, with extenders--right now that is XBox 360, the current 4GB diskless base model is all you need--serving the 7MC experience to remote TVs.

You could save yourself a bunch of time and heartache by simply embracing this now and avoiding the running around to try to twist twelventy different pieces of hardware into some sort of system that will never work, but I know you'll try to exhaust that route first anyway.

What you will not get with 7MC, out of the box: Netflix on the extenders. There are ways around that, or you can just go XBox Live Gold on each XBox to get your Netflix that way, or just add a Roku or AppleTV or whatever as an extra box on the remote TVs and call it a day.

What you will get when you embrace 7MC with extenders: a functioning system that works and will make your wife happy.

Start simple and clean, without any add-ons. Get it all working and get everyone happy with it. Then you can start customizing it to your heart's content.

Yes, many people simply stick a boatload of storage onto the 7MC machine and serve their media out that way. It's not rocket science and doesn't require a separate server of any kind. But you are more than welcome to set up any server you want and make your various media available to the network that way. What sort of things are you looking to store? Photos? Music? DVD or BD stuff? Video, that can take huge amounts of storage if you have a lot of movies; some people have hundreds, and that's where you'll find mega-storage servers set up.

7MC is highly customizable, so poke around and start gathering links. But start with it bone stock and work with it that way first.

Also, head over to thegreenbutton.tv for tons of this type of information.
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post #25 of 40
4/23/12 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post

Yes.

In fact, after you've gone around and danced with all the other girls, acknowledge that this is the one you'll end up taking home to mother. There is no other realistic choice to serve your needs.

7MC box centrally located doing all the recording, with extenders--right now that is XBox 360, the current 4GB diskless base model is all you need--serving the 7MC experience to remote TVs.

You could save yourself a bunch of time and heartache by simply embracing this now and avoiding the running around to try to twist twelventy different pieces of hardware into some sort of system that will never work, but I know you'll try to exhaust that route first anyway.

What you will not get with 7MC, out of the box: Netflix on the extenders. There are ways around that, or you can just go XBox Live Gold on each XBox to get your Netflix that way, or just add a Roku or AppleTV or whatever as an extra box on the remote TVs and call it a day.

What you will get when you embrace 7MC with extenders: a functioning system that works and will make your wife happy.

Start simple and clean, without any add-ons. Get it all working and get everyone happy with it. Then you can start customizing it to your heart's content.

Yes, many people simply stick a boatload of storage onto the 7MC machine and serve their media out that way. It's not rocket science and doesn't require a separate server of any kind. But you are more than welcome to set up any server you want and make your various media available to the network that way. What sort of things are you looking to store? Photos? Music? DVD or BD stuff? Video, that can take huge amounts of storage if you have a lot of movies; some people have hundreds, and that's where you'll find mega-storage servers set up.

7MC is highly customizable, so poke around and start gathering links. But start with it bone stock and work with it that way first.

Also, head over to thegreenbutton.tv for tons of this type of information.

The problem with the Xbox 360 is that it's video support is very limited. It can't support many codecs, file formats, or really high bit rate movies at all. Hence, why you should wait for the Ceton. The Ceton will also likely include Netflix without a subscription fee.
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post #26 of 40
4/23/12 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

The Ceton will also likely include Netflix without a subscription fee.

Where does this come from? Since Netflix has to pay ever increasing license fees, how is it going to provide content for free?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

The Ceton Echo could solve all of these problems and do almost everything an HTPC is meant to do, but in a much more stable fashion with less maintenance and setup.

These are the kinds of comments that are really easy to make while a device is nothing but vaporware. It's sort of like expecting Ceton to solve the mystery of the universe and cure cancer while it's at it.

Color me skeptical about this magical device doing "almost everything an HTPC is meant to do, but in a much more stable fashion with less maintenance and setup."
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post #27 of 40
4/23/12 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Where does this come from? Since Netflix has to pay ever increasing license fees, how is it going to provide content for free?



These are the kinds of comments that are really easy to make while a device is nothing but vaporware. It's sort of like expecting Ceton to solve the mystery of the universe and cure cancer while it's at it.

Color me skeptical about this magical device doing "almost everything an HTPC is meant to do, but in a much more stable fashion with less maintenance and setup."

Maybe it won't have Netflix, although I'd be surprised if it completely lacked content streaming services. That would definitely be a big bust for a device coming out in 2012.

Also, why would you call it vaporware? Ceton has already established itself as a reputable company, and they've showed off prototypes a number of times. We already know what extenders do, and Ceton has made things like MKV support explicit. If the Echo can at the very least do what the Xbox 360 does (in extender mode) plus support more file formats, it will be a great HTPC replacement for many people. And why wouldn't it be more stable with less maintenance? It's going to run Windows embedded, which is just Windows with the superfluous elements stripped out (Edit: that might be the Q, but it doesn't matter either way; it should require less maintenance than an HTPC).
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post #28 of 40
4/23/12 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Maybe it won't have Netflix, although I'd be surprised if it completely lacked content streaming services. That would definitely be a big bust for a device coming out in 2012.

Also, why would you call it vaporware? Ceton has already established itself as a reputable company, and they've showed off prototypes a number of times. We already know what extenders do, and Ceton has made things like MKV support explicit. If the Echo can at the very least do what the Xbox 360 does (in extender mode) plus support more file formats, it will be a great HTPC replacement for many people. And why wouldn't it be more stable with less maintenance? It's going to run Windows embedded, which is just Windows with the superfluous elements stripped out.

I didn't say it wouldn't do Netflix. EVERYTHING does Netflix these days. Big whoop. You said it would "include Netflix without a subscription fee" I asked you how that was supposed to happen. Still wating to hear.

And if what you're now saying is that it will just do what an XBox does plus add some file formats and some streaming apps that are also included in virtually every TV and BD player sold today, that is a very far cry from "doing almost everything an HTPC is meant to do." But if that's all it does (which sounds like little more than "combines an XBox and Roku into a single unit") it probably will and certainly should require less maintainance than an HTPC. But that's a big reach to call it a "great HTPC replacement."

And I called it vaporware because that's what it is when a product is being hyped for months while actual availability is nonexistant. You can claim it will do anything as long as it doesn't actually exist and those claims can't be put to the test.

This thing has produced long threads already of people dreaming over what it might do. I look forward to the inevitable hundred-page threads about the incompatibilities and limitations whenever it finally actually exists. Somehow I doubt that all of the problems of digital media are going to be solved overnight. Indeed I think it does a disservice to Ceton to create unrealistic expectations for it.
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post #29 of 40
4/23/12 at 8:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

I didn't say it wouldn't do Netflix. EVERYTHING does Netflix these days. Big whoop. You said it would "include Netflix without a subscription fee" I asked you how that was supposed to happen. Still wating to hear.

I think he met without having to pay for xbox live gold to use netflix
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post #30 of 40
4/23/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

I didn't say it wouldn't do Netflix. EVERYTHING does Netflix these days. Big whoop. You said it would "include Netflix without a subscription fee" I asked you how that was supposed to happen. Still wating to hear.

And if what you're now saying is that it will just do what an XBox does plus add some file formats and some streaming apps that are also included in virtually every TV and BD player sold today, that is a very far cry from "doing almost everything an HTPC is meant to do." But if that's all it does (which sounds like little more than "combines an XBox and Roku into a single unit") it probably will and certainly should require less maintainance than an HTPC. But that's a big reach to call it a "great HTPC replacement."

And I called it vaporware because that's what it is when a product is being hyped for months while actual availability is nonexistant. You can claim it will do anything as long as it doesn't actually exist and those claims can't be put to the test.

This thing has produced long threads already of people dreaming over what it might do. I look forward to the inevitable hundred-page threads about the incompatibilities and limitations whenever it finally actually exists. Somehow I doubt that all of the problems of digital media are going to be solved overnight. Indeed I think it does a disservice to Ceton to create unrealistic expectations for it.

Fine, maybe it won't have Netflix. Not the end of the world. HTPC are awful for Netflix anyway, so you're going to need 2 devices regardless.

Vaporware usually refers to a product that has been announced but is never actually released. The Ceton Echo is simply an announced but unreleased product (when a new iPhone is announced, does everyone called it vaporware? Um no). Also, the entire goal of WMC extender was to replicate the WMC experience in a less expensive and more stable package. Most people use their HTPC's to watch movies, tv shows, and listen to music. Sure, some people like doing more fancy stuff like launching game emulators, but I have a tough time believing that's the majority of the HTPC crowd.

If I'm not mistaken, Assassin's survey a couple months back showed that most HTPC users use WMC. So if the Ceton can do a good job replicating WMC, which is the entire goal of WMC extenders, then I bet it satisfy many of the current HTPC users' needs.

Also, why assume now it's going to have all sorts of compatibility problems? Why not just assume it's going to do what it advertises? I never said that the Echo was going to replace HTPCs. I simply suggested that the OP wait until the Echo is released because it might accomplish everything he wants to do.

Moreover, another option now is to build an HTPC for the main room in the house now and then wait on the Echo for the other rooms. This way you still avoid all the copy once problems. I just think going through the trouble of building and maintaining 3 HTPCs while also dealing with the annoyances of copy once protection is a ridiculous proposition. I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemies.
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