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a dose of reality... - Page 2

post #31 of 57
4/23/12 at 12:22pm
I have the EX and would recommend the EX over the plus if you do go Outlaw. I myself am outgrowing the single EX. I am planning on adding another or going with a seaton very soon
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post #32 of 57
4/23/12 at 12:36pm
Quote:


Your room is really clean eljay and I bet those Craigsub's ROCK being so close to the action. I've heard good things about them.

Thanks! And, yup, I'm really happy with these subs.
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post #33 of 57
4/23/12 at 12:54pm
Quote:


An example would be the movie 10,000 BC. Dreadful as that flick is there are two scenes associated to a mammoth stampede which highlight the physical perception aspect

Not to veer to far off topic, but I would like know why you consider that movie to be dreadful.
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post #34 of 57
4/23/12 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I have the EX and would recommend the EX over the plus if you do go Outlaw. I myself am outgrowing the single EX. I am planning on adding another or going with a seaton very soon

How can you outgrow a single EX unless you room has grown?
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post #35 of 57
4/23/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

How can you outgrow a single EX unless you room has grown?

Maybe he wants a more consistent FR across the room. Hopefully he's not looking for more output lol
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post #36 of 57
4/23/12 at 1:04pm
Quote:


I was kind of in the same train of thoughts as Auditor55. But when I read the "The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts" and I see posters talking about stuff in movies I own that I never heard of felt before, it got me thinking about what I'm missing.

I think you have to spend a lot of money to get what those folks are claiming that you missed.
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post #37 of 57
4/23/12 at 1:14pm
That Outlaw sale mentioned earlier was on January 20th of this year. There was one last year on 6/2 also. I have copied that sale here. They seem to do these sales every year, but at different times. I strongly suggest you get on their mailing list. Oh, and FWIW, I have an EX and love it. I bought at the price below, but in August of 2010. $552 shipped.

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post #38 of 57
4/23/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

How can you outgrow a single EX unless you room has grown?

You just answered your question!
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post #39 of 57
4/23/12 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
I'm leaning towards SVS right now. Aside from what you get, geographical convenience is a factor.

I still sent an inquiry with Outlaw to see their policy on warranty issues for cross border customers.
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post #40 of 57
4/23/12 at 10:21pm
Different people definately have the capacity to hear to differing limits of low frequency.. I can hear pretty clearly down to 16 or 17 hz without turning up the volume with generic 1hz incremental test tones. When I've done some tests with friends in the past - some of my friends hearing drops off in the low 20hz, others I've read on this forum have said they can't hear anything below mid 20hz. The generic 20hz to 20,000hz human ear hearing range is a generic estimate for all humans - some hear lower, some hear not quite as low. I don't hear all the way up to 20,000hz, but I do hear lower than 20hz. It won't be the same for everybody reading this thread. In my experience with subwoofers it seems that around 15-20hz is where most rooms I've been in start activating and absorbing this accoustic energy to the point of vibration and room noise. From my perspective anything under about 16-18hz is not really nearly as important as some seem to promote around here. While you 'might' pick up the tactile feel in test tones played very loudly at inaudible frequencies you'll not have that situation in a movie or other realworld material. Should you try - with a movie like WOTW, or Flight of the Phoenix, or Hulk, or Master and Commander which does have some subsonic ultra low frequencies they will be masked by all the higher frequencies that you can hear and that also provide their own tactile feedback. If you tried to turn the subs up enough to hear the ultra low subsonic frequencies you'd drive yourself out of the room with the frequencies you can hear. I've watched the infamous black hawk down clip with JTR Orbit Shifters in a pair at above reference volume (+4 on AVR and the subs running hot), I've watched the same scene on a pair of submersive HPs, heck I even watched this scene on set of five submersive HPs. I can't, for the life of me, detect anything magical in that BHD scene with the ultra low frequencies supposeldly noticable over my pair of JTR Captivator pros (ported subs) capable of playing only down to 15hz or 20hz (depending on port plug configuration) Even through the entire point of that clip is that there isn't much else going on and it's just helicopter rotors so you should be able to make out those Ultra low frequencies. Despite repeated attempts in multiple setups, in multiple rooms, on multiple ocassions. I sense no magic in the clip. In fact comparing the BHD helicopter clip to a recent movie "Drive"'s helicopter clip I much preferred the Drive movie's helicopter sound and nobody has raved about that particular clip being exceptionally low frequency oriented. Therefore - - from what I've experienced - - I suggest getting a sub that plays flat down to 16-18-or 20hz and has the strong ability to play these lower 'audible' frequencies as loud as you'd like. I believe the 5, 10, 12hz frequency discussions are more about show than people would like to admit and would be very difficult indeed to detect in any real world material.
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post #41 of 57
4/23/12 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Different people definately have the capacity to hear to differing limits of low frequency.. I can hear pretty clearly down to 16 or 17 hz without turning up the volume with generic 1hz incremental test tones. When I've done some tests with friends in the past - some of my friends hearing drops off in the low 20hz, others I've read on this forum have said they can't hear anything below mid 20hz. The generic 20hz to 20,000hz human ear hearing range is a generic estimate for all humans - some hear lower, some hear not quite as low. I don't hear all the way up to 20,000hz, but I do hear lower than 20hz. It won't be the same for everybody reading this thread. In my experience with subwoofers it seems that around 15-20hz is where most rooms I've been in start activating and absorbing this accoustic energy to the point of vibration and room noise. From my perspective anything under about 16-18hz is not really nearly as important as some seem to promote around here. While you 'might' pick up the tactile feel in test tones played very loudly at inaudible frequencies you'll not have that situation in a movie or other realworld material. Should you try - with a movie like WOTW, or Flight of the Phoenix, or Hulk, or Master and Commander which does have some subsonic ultra low frequencies they will be masked by all the higher frequencies that you can hear and that also provide their own tactile feedback. If you tried to turn the subs up enough to hear the ultra low subsonic frequencies you'd drive yourself out of the room with the frequencies you can hear. I've watched the infamous black hawk down clip with JTR Orbit Shifters in a pair at above reference volume (+4 on AVR and the subs running hot), I've watched the same scene on a pair of submersive HPs, heck I even watched this scene on set of five submersive HPs. I can't, for the life of me, detect anything magical in that BHD scene with the ultra low frequencies supposeldly noticable over my pair of JTR Captivator pros (ported subs) capable of playing only down to 15hz or 20hz (depending on port plug configuration) Even through the entire point of that clip is that there isn't much else going on and it's just helicopter rotors so you should be able to make out those Ultra low frequencies. Despite repeated attempts in multiple setups, in multiple rooms, on multiple ocassions. I sense no magic in the clip. In fact comparing the BHD helicopter clip to a recent movie "Drive"'s helicopter clip I much preferred the Drive movie's helicopter sound and nobody has raved about that particular clip being exceptionally low frequency oriented. Therefore - - from what I've experienced - - I suggest getting a sub that plays flat down to 16-18-or 20hz and has the strong ability to play these lower 'audible' frequencies as loud as you'd like. I believe the 5, 10, 12hz frequency discussions are more about show than people would like to admit and would be very difficult indeed to detect in any real world material.

Very well said.

When I comment that investing on a sub that can do ultra low frequencies isnt really worth the money, I was always snubbed telling me that those ultra low frequencies are tactile and that completes the movie watching experience.

There was a "you tube" video showing the sub playing very low frequencies. I wondered how I was able to listen to that through my tiny PC speakers. I was later told that that sound was not the sub but instead the doors and windows in the room rattling. LOL. When I run my Antimode 8033 to do the automatic correction, I can also hear my door rattling. I just dont like that. I am sure I would be more worried about the doors and windows rattling during a movie if there are ultra low frequencies and will not enjoy it even if I could feel the tactile sound of the low frequency.

Unless we can all hear and feel low frequencies like an elephant, there is no need to invest on something that the manufacturer claims would go down to 5, 10 or 12 Hz. A sub that can do flat down to 20Hz should be more than adequate, except for a few people who like their sub to be as large as their fridge :-) A movie has content in other frequencies too :-)
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post #42 of 57
4/24/12 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Not to veer to far off topic, but I would like know why you consider that movie to be dreadful.

Then use the PM instead of taking the thread off topic, please.
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post #43 of 57
4/24/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

\\Unless we can all hear and feel low frequencies like an elephant, there is no need to invest on something that the manufacturer claims would go down to 5, 10 or 12 Hz. A sub that can do flat down to 20Hz should be more than adequate, except for a few people who like their sub to be as large as their fridge :-) A movie has content in other frequencies too :-)

Yes, chasing after usable response in the mid teens starts to get expensive, and most people are better off concentrating on getting *accurate* frequency response rather than looking for high output at 15Hz. So in this case, it would be probably better to get two PB12NSD or two Outlaw EX rather than one FV15HP or PB13. You still get bass that you can feel @20Hz, and the inherent benefit of dual subs.

The way I've always seen it, buy all the extension you need first, and then add a second if you need more output.
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post #44 of 57
4/24/12 at 7:45am
^^^^+1
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post #45 of 57
4/24/12 at 3:40pm
Thread Starter 
whooo, this thread got some activity since I was here last

Thanks for everybody's input.

I got an answer from Outlaw about crossborder customers and it was what I suspected. Thanks to eljaycanuck and warpdrive for reminding me of this.

Looks like it's going to be SVS PB12-NSD...x 2

Thanks for your post Archea and Mupi, what you said makes sense. I can't afford to chase mid teen Hz, but I want to be able to recreate at least 20Hz. My current subs, as good as I think they are for the money, can't. They will do mid 20s but you can tell that they are at their limit. Like I said in a previous post, I also want more headroom. I think that the PB12-NSD will give me what I'm looking for.

DIY, is not for me. I usually hire a contractor to hang pictures

When I get it, I hope I can make it play nice with my PA-120s until I get the other one.
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post #46 of 57
4/24/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Looks like it's going to be SVS PB12-NSD...x 2

Sweet!

Quote:


I can't afford to [chase] mid teen Hz, but I want to be able to recreate at least 20Hz.

If the current PB12 is anything like my old BASH-powered PB12 - both rated rated down to 18Hz @ -3dB - it will deliver 18Hz no problem. Your room is larger than mine, so you may not find it to have as much authority as I got out of mine in my space, but with two of them, you will get plenty of authority.

Quote:


Like I said in a previous post, I also want more headroom. I think that the PB12-NSD will give me what I'm looking for.

Yes, it will. And, most definitely, they will. I have no doubt that you will NOT be disappointed.

Congratulations!
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post #47 of 57
4/24/12 at 4:25pm
Remember also.....room gain ! Placement could yield huge returns, hope you have some options. In most living spaces its tough, good luck. I'm sure Ed Mullen over at SVS could get you all the input you need...good luck
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post #48 of 57
4/24/12 at 4:36pm
You may likely find a single svs more entertaining for movie watching than the svs combined with the two pa-120s. With the pa-120s engaged the phase will inverse below port tuning and likely cancel out the lower frequencies the svs is working to produce! It'll be louder with all three but ill bet you find you'll like only the svs engaged when you watch particularly low clips like war of the worlds, incredible hulk, master and commander, how to train your dragon, etc.
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post #49 of 57
5/12/12 at 10:26am
Thread Starter 
Well, it's done. I couldn't bring myself to order only 1, so... Should get them by next Thursday.

I feel like a kid
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post #50 of 57
5/12/12 at 12:10pm
Congrats man! Sounds like you're going to have a killer setup.
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post #51 of 57
5/12/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

So you're going buy a sub to listen to frequency sweeps or are you more concerned with real world content.

No, he's doing the smart thing and measuring the room response and making changes that are data driven.

What's your approach?
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post #52 of 57
5/12/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

No, he's doing the smart thing and measuring the room response and making changes that are data driven.

What's your approach?

My approach is to get several selections from my smooth jazz collection, play them and then evaluate how my sub is doing.
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post #53 of 57
5/12/12 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

Well, it's done. I couldn't bring myself to order only 1, so... Should get them by next Thursday.

I feel like a kid

super dirty, super clean, pow

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post #54 of 57
5/12/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

I feel like a kid

You should. You will soon achieve bass nirvana
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post #55 of 57
5/16/12 at 4:52pm
Thread Starter 
holly batman cowboy!!!
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post #56 of 57
5/16/12 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

holly batman cowboy!!!

So, you just received them and saw how big they were?
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post #57 of 57
5/17/12 at 7:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

So, you just received them and saw how big they were?

yup, that they are.

I was just watching Cars 2 on tv. I went upstairs to cook me supper. During some scenes, I could feel the vibrations in my hand while holding the frying pan handle. I've got the gain dial at 11:00 position and trimmed at -5.5 and the volume was at -12.

I've bought the Underworld Awakening last week and haven't watched it yet waiting for this moment. Probably going to rewatch Terminator Salvation (one of my fav for LFE and overall surround) and WOTW and Cloverfield and etc...
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