or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › Dolby Atmos Theatre System
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Dolby Atmos Theatre System - Page 9

post #241 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

For the first time, I noted a "Dolby Atmos" logo in the screen credits for a movie last night (Men In Black III). Is there any information about which movies have this encoding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

"Brave" is the first, and only, film to be mixed in Atmos... MIB 3 was not.
There will probably be two more films this year mixed in the format.. IIRC, Dolby expects the real rollout to be springtime 2013.

I was about to say "weird" on the MIB3 thing because when I saw it (I always sit through the credits) and didn't see any additional logos other than the DOLBY DIGITAL - SDDS - DATASAT credit at the end.

Is it possible they did tests on it like with Dolby Digital and STAR TREK VI/NEWSIES where those films only ran in 1 or 2 test locations and the first "official" film was BATMAN RETURNS?
post #242 of 921
I'm taking my wife and 2 girls to see Brave tonight at the Kansas City Mo dolby atmos theater. Man, it's not cheap - 14.50 per ticket! Normal ticket prices here in KC are usually around 10 bucks for reference. It will be about a half hour drive but I'm hoping it will be worth it. I'll post my impressions, I'm looking forward to it.
post #243 of 921
I watched the premier of Brave at the Atmos auditorium at AMC Downtown Disney 24 earlier today. There are two rows of speakers in the ceiling roughly 50' above the stadium seating with a total of 72 speakers in the auditorium to include more side wall and rear wall speakers. This particular auditorium already had about 2x as many speakers as their regular auditoriums (likely the side wall and rear wall) and was labeled as their ETX auditorium (now also Atmos). Although there were some scenes where the audio washed all around you due to the overhead speakers, I think that (just as with 3D) some movie audio tracks will be better suited for the explosion of additional speakers. For the same money, I'd prefer going to a real IMAX movie instead which fortunately Orlando has 2 auditoriums in the area, one fairly close to the Disney theater.
post #244 of 921
Couple of reviews copied from the local home theatre meets thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpino View Post

Saw Brave at the Burbank AMC 16 in Dolby Atmos this morining. As I mentioned before this has been my favorite theatre for some time now before Atmos. The complaint I had the last time I was there was that the bass was too strong and caused rattling that was distracting. I am happy to say that with Atmos this problem was not present, and the bass was just as good as it was with the ETX or maybe even better. Before the movie started they played the Dolby Atmos trailer which was just spectacular. I have never heard such presise panning around the listener and so much phantom imaging all around. The trailer alone was worth the trip. This trailer alone has me excited of what Atmos is capable of. Now on to how it performed on Brave. First let me just say that there was a Dolby rep who made a small presentation before the movie started. He told us how lucky we were to have Atmos as there are only 14 theaters in the Country set up for it. He also told us Brave is a test for Atmos and they would be doing a survey after the movie. After the Dolby trailer my expectaitons wrere very high and I'm sad to say they were not fully met, but having said that I still think this is the Best possible way to experience Brave if sound is a concern to you. In my opinion this has to do with the mix more than what Atmos is capable of. Pixiar usually doesn't have aggressive surround mixes. When there was surround panning it was excelent. I could hear sounds more presise than ever before as the went from my left shoulder to behind me to my right shoulder. I also noticed a few instances were a pan would dissapear slowly as it felt to go farther and farther making it feel I was in a huge space in this case a huge forest. All in all I think it was worth making the trip over for the experience and I would highly highly recommed anyone who is interested in seeing Brave and to see it at this location if sound and video is important to them. I can't wait till they fully mix a movie with Atmos in mind for the begining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

To add to Ivan's post (except with paragraph breaks)...

First, the movie itself is nice, with some lump-in-your-throad moments at the end (though nowhere near as emotional as 'Toy Story 3' or 'Up' - both of which had me bawling like a little girl). Movie-wise, 'Brave' falls in the middle of the Pixar catalogue for me: better than most but not as incredible as their best movies (pun intended). Pixar's animation is always top notch, but the scenerey here (compared to, say Andy's room in the Toy Story movies) makes the CG absolutely gorgeous too look at. Pure eye candy. Well worth seeing, in 3D, on a big BIG screen.

As for Dolby Atmos: this is the real deal for next gen movie sound. Pixar's mixes have always been tastefully done, without the type of agressive surround sound gimickry that makes for handy demo material. To that end, I agree with Ivan that the mix didn't specifically highlight Atmos, but then neither did the 'Toy Story 3' mix highlight the fact that it was the first theatrical 7.1 mix nor did the 'Red Tails' mix call attention to the Auro-3D height speakers.

The Atmos trailer really set the bar high. The theatre played it about 25 minutes early (probably testing) and then played it again right before the movie. Not too agressive, but it lets you clearly hear height effects and pin-point imaging. In fact, after the first run of the trailer, Ivan was pointing out locations where there were no speakers but we both clearly heard localization. I have only heard phantom imaging like this at home; never, ever in a commercial movie theatre. Until now. Weird to hear sounds float between the sides speakers and height speakers. Both the trailer and the movie kept the height effects atmospheric rather than distracting. There was a scene in the movie that takes place during a rain storm, which was the only time the height effect was obvious.

Whether it was the Atmos trailer or the movie, if there was one aspect of Atmos that was the easiest to notice, it was the pan-throughs. Movements were so smooth around the room that I simply didn't notice channels or speakers; pans felt seamless and precise. Again, being a Pixar mix, this was never over-used and occurred only when tied to specific actions in the film (e.g., arrow flying by your face). Still, it was so different from the very generalized left-vs-right-vs-back directionality in the surround field that we typically hear at movie theatres, that there's no missing it. Like I said, I found the pan-throughs to be the most striking improvement of Atmos.

Worth seeing (hearing) the movie in Atmos? Absolutely! Historic moment in cinema sound, not to be missed. Especially with the multiple choices of theatres we have here in Southern California.
post #245 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Man, it's not cheap - 14.50 per ticket! Normal ticket prices here in KC are usually around 10 bucks for reference.

Sounds like it needs to be about 45% better. biggrin.gif
post #246 of 921
I've just noticed this thread and im curious when would we see dolby atmos for home?
post #247 of 921
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I've just noticed this thread and im curious when would we see dolby atmos for home?
I'd guesstimate 5 ±2 years, give or take. tongue.gif
post #248 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I'd guesstimate 5 ±2 years, give or take. tongue.gif

Great, that would give us enough time to save some money for installing a couple of new speakers. I was thinking about 37 speakers installed every 30° around and above the main listening position.
post #249 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I was thinking about 37 speakers installed every 30° around and above the main listening position.
You put the zero in the wrong place; should be more like 370 speakers installed every 3 degrees. But seriously...

I was thinking about the comment by Harvey Fletcher (known as the father of stereophonic sound) that is mentioned at the begining of Atmos intro video: 'it doesn't matter how many channels there are so long as there is the illusion of there being an infinite number'.

Not being wealthy, the challenge for me when it comes to home audio is finding the point of diminishing returns: at what point will adding more speakers to my system result in minimal to negligible improvements in localization and imaging stability? In other words, how few speakers will let me get away with the illusion of there being a dome of speakers around me?

With a 7-speaker layout, I feel that I have left/right and front/back reasonably covered. Maybe a pair of wides or a 5-speaker front soundstage would make for greater stability in the front hemisphere, but I don't know if the benefit is tangible enough to be worth the cost. So the only direction left to go is up. But how many height speakers?

I'd start with grid of at least 4 overhead, spread away from the median plane (listener's centre line) to minimize imaging reversals and create phantom imaging above with some directionality. Angle-wise, the 4 speakers can split the difference between the fronts and sides and between the sides and rears. It should also allow for some phantom imaging between the surrounds and heights.

After that, I'm not sure which other speaker locations would make the most noticeable difference. Considering we already have receivers supporting 11 channels (Denon 4311), seems like a workable starting point.
post #250 of 921
Technically speaking, it is actually just a 62.2 surround sound system that has much finer granularity of manipulating the sound than existing 5.1 and 7.1 systems.
post #251 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by valley_nomad View Post

Technically speaking, it is actually just a 62.2 surround sound system
The only time it is a 62.2 system is when using all 64 outputs. Otherwise the number of channels is based on the number of outputs/speakers. It's not like mixers do a 62.2 mix which then gets downmixed for fewer speakers.
post #252 of 921
Seen Brave at the KC Mo AMC24 BarryWood today with my wife in Dolby Atmos. We were very impressed but I wanted more ceiling sound. What was there was fantastic though. Pans where ultra smooth and little wisps of sounds where lightly placed throughout the soundfield that floated effortlessly around the theater. Atmos has tons of potential.
Edited by Reddig - 6/23/12 at 11:03pm
post #253 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

the point of diminishing returns

I believe that wides are the most important addition to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup. They can add a tremendous amount of spaciousness (and therefore realism) if the recording is done right. Beyond that I'm not sure which speakers would be most effective in adding "height" to the sound stage around the listener.
post #254 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

"Brave" is the first, and only, film to be mixed in Atmos... MIB 3 was not.
There will probably be two more films this year mixed in the format.. IIRC, Dolby expects the real rollout to be springtime 2013.

The really strange thing: I had never heard of Dolby Atmos until I saw it in the screen credits for MIB3. This led me to the "Dolby Atmos Cinema Sound Platform" thread in the "DVD Movie, Concerts, and Music Discussion" forum, which had a link to this thread in this Forum. The Dolby Atmos logo was one of approximately eight sound system logos near the end of the credits. I'm not saying I was in a Dolby Atmos theater, or that I was seeing a Dolby Atmos encoded movie - only that I saw a digital print with that logo. It was on a 2D movie version, specificly the 7:25PM show at the Century 20 Oakridge and XD in San Jose, CA on Friday night, June 22nd.

I don't think I'm wrong. I never heard of the system before that night.
post #255 of 921
I recently posted this review in a different thread. We saw Brave in 3D at a 2:10 PM showing. Ticket prices were $13.50 for adults.

Attended the ICON Theater showing of Brave with my oldest daughter on Saturday. It was my first visit to the South Loop of Chicago in many years and it's experiencing quite a transformation - changing from an old manufacturing area to an upscale yuppie neighborhood complete with condos, apartments and new retail stores. The Roosevelt Collection cineplex opened in December 2009 and has 16 theaters, the Atmos sound was located in Auditorium 14. The auditorium had 284 seats, for some reason I had expected the theater to be larger. Although I didn't do an actual speaker count there are supposedly 64 separate channels with 2 arrays of overhead speakers. The sound-field was immersive but I'm not sure that Brave was the type of film that best showcased this new sound platform. The 3D and animation were very well done and get high grades but the story itself was lacking and the princess was particularly irritating until the final act which was not enough of a pay-off for me. However I came away with the feeling that Atmos is the future of sound although I'm not sure how many theater owners will buy into an expensive retro-fit. Definitely recommend you experience this if you have a nearby theater.

post #256 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The only time it is a 62.2 system is when using all 64 outputs. Otherwise the number of channels is based on the number of outputs/speakers. It's not like mixers do a 62.2 mix which then gets downmixed for fewer speakers.

good pont... It ponts out the general misconception of.the fundamental difference from purely channel based and now object based mixing.

5.1, 7.1, 62.2..... That's irrelevant now...

It allows us to mix with out much concern for the exact number of channels in the playback venue.

This is the first scalable system that has actually made it to market....
post #257 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

Seen Brave at the KC Mo AMC24 BarryWood today with my wife in Dolby Atmos. We were very impressed but I wanted more ceiling sound. What was there was fantastic though. Pans where ultra smooth and little wisps of sounds where lightly placed throughout the soundfield that floated effortlessly around the theater. Atmos has tons of potential.

Can't comment on Brave yet... But if the sound several the story I think the potential has been me..

I would imagine the real ear opener would be for people to be able to heat the Atmos against the 7.1... I expect the difference would be far less subtle than people would think.
post #258 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

The really strange thing: I had never heard of Dolby Atmos until I saw it in the screen credits for MIB3. This led me to the "Dolby Atmos Cinema Sound Platform" thread in the "DVD Movie, Concerts, and Music Discussion" forum, which had a link to this thread in this Forum. The Dolby Atmos logo was one of approximately eight sound system logos near the end of the credits. I'm not saying I was in a Dolby Atmos theater, or that I was seeing a Dolby Atmos encoded movie - only that I saw a digital print with that logo. It was on a 2D movie version, specificly the 7:25PM show at the Century 20 Oakridge and XD in San Jose, CA on Friday night, June 22nd.
I don't think I'm wrong. I never heard of the system before that night.

there are only five sound formats for film... Dolby SRD, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby 7.1, Datasat and SDDS... Even if Datasat is ES, I don't think they logoed it...

Regardless.. If you saw more than there there was maybe a mistake on the part of the optisal house when rendering the end credits.
post #259 of 921
I believe there are only between one and two hundred "3D audio" theatrical screens of all types combined worldwide right now; that's more about experimenting with the medium and 'theater configuration' than commercial exploitation. We'll probably have to wait for a year or so until some BIG MOVIE (e.g., Avatar 2) is given an aggressive object oriented sound mix, and then rendered for 2 or 3 of the competing 3D audio sound systems . . . so that there can be a serious comparison of the strengths and weaknesses of the several theatrical 3D audio technologies now in 'pilot testing'...?! cool.gif
post #260 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

there are only five sound formats for film... Dolby SRD, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby 7.1, Datasat and SDDS... Even if Datasat is ES, I don't think they logoed it...
Regardless.. If you saw more than there there was maybe a mistake on the part of the optisal house when rendering the end credits.
Does anyone recall what sound format logos appeared on the prints of Red Tails actually screened in Auro-3D 11.1...?
post #261 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

5.1, 7.1, 62.2..... That's irrelevant now...

Beds? tongue.gif
post #262 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

The auditorium had 284 seats, for some reason I had expected the theater to be larger. Although I didn't do an actual speaker count there are supposedly 64 separate channels with 2 arrays of overhead speakers.
I doubt it was 64 separate channels, since the number of channels would be based mostly on the number of speakers, and it doesn't seem likely that the small theatre you describe had 64 total speakers. For example, the ETX theatre in Burbank where I went to see 'Brave' had a little over 40 speakers for a theatre that seated almost 500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

The sound-field was immersive but I'm not sure that Brave was the type of film that best showcased this new sound platform.
I think 'Brave' could have been a more agressive demo for Atmos had it been mixed differently. This type of movie, what with all its fantasy elements, would have been appropriate to show off enhanced surround capabilities. It was Pixar's typically tasteful mixing that kept the Atmos improvements subtle rather than obvious.
post #263 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I believe that wides are the most important addition to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup. They can add a tremendous amount of spaciousness (and therefore realism) if the recording is done right.
How many speakers are you using in your set-up? The reason I ask is because I hear so much phantom imaging between fronts and sides that wide speakers seem the least important addition, based on how little difference they make (at least compared to other speaker locations). But that's based on my experience with several 7.1 (not 5.1) speaker set-ups. Also, the designer of DTS Neo:X envisioned an 11-speaker set-up using the standard 7-speaker layout with 4 height speakers (no wides). Likewise, the new Harman surround processing uses upto 12 speakers: standard 7.1 plus 5 heights (no wides).
post #264 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I doubt it was 64 separate channels, since the number of channels would be based mostly on the number of speakers, and it doesn't seem likely that the small theatre you describe had 64 total speakers. For example, the ETX theatre in Burbank where I went to see 'Brave' had a little over 40 speakers for a theatre that seated almost 500.

You're right now that I think about it. I seem to remember 7 speakers down each side of the theater and across the back, didn't count the speakers overhead. It would seem similar to the typical array shown on the Dolby website. I pulled the 64 channels from a write-up on a Chicago website which was likely quoting something they had read...

dolby_atmos_layout.jpg 36k .jpg file
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I think 'Brave' could have been a more aggressive demo for Atmos had it been mixed differently. This type of movie, what with all its fantasy elements, would have been appropriate to show off enhanced surround capabilities. It was Pixar's typically tasteful mixing that kept the Atmos improvements subtle rather than obvious.

Exactly. smile.gif
post #265 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

I seem to remember 7 speakers down each side of the theater and across the back, didn't count the speakers overhead.
That's pretty much what it was like at my local Atmos theatre: 7 speakers down each side, 9 across the back (including a pair in the corners) and 8 in each of the overhead columns; for a total of 39 'surrounds'. Don't know if there were 3 or 5 speakers behind the screen, but that puts the full count in the low 40s. I'd be curious if there is a theatre that uses all the channels.
post #266 of 921
I saw Brave tonight at the Cinemark XD Plano West
we counted 11-12 speakers in each of 2 arrays on the ceiling, 12-14 on the sides, 6 rears, and I assume the 5 front channels behind the screen. It totaled somewhere around 60 from our hasty counting inside the theater. Was hard to count due to darkness and other things in the ceiling as well. The trailer with the falling seed/leaf blew us away. Could definitely tell a huge improvement over typical 5.1/7.1 theater setups. Pans across the front were much more continuous, and there were definitely a nice share of surround and overhead effects. It seemed to be off balance a little in the front, seemed to be heavy on the left side with the music. I wonder if there arent a few issues to still work out, I know the theater had this particular auditorium closed for the week leading up to Brave for sound system updates.
post #267 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by applemachome View Post

The trailer with the falling seed/leaf blew us away.
Wasn't that awesome! I wish Dolby would put that on some sort of demo disc, encoded in PLIIz to get at least some of the height effect.
post #268 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

How many speakers are you using in your set-up? The reason I ask is because I hear so much phantom imaging between fronts and sides that wide speakers seem the least important addition, based on how little difference they make (at least compared to other speaker locations). But that's based on my experience with several 7.1 (not 5.1) speaker set-ups. Also, the designer of DTS Neo:X envisioned an 11-speaker set-up using the standard 7-speaker layout with 4 height speakers (no wides). Likewise, the new Harman surround processing uses upto 12 speakers: standard 7.1 plus 5 heights (no wides).

It's not so much about phantom imaging but about spaciousness. I did some tests with artificial reverberation and found wides at 60° most effective.

For good localization I would think that more speakers near the frontal plane would be benificial. This is where phantom imaging works very badly.
post #269 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddig View Post

We were very impressed but I wanted more ceiling sound.

I don't know about you, but I thought it needed more cowbell. rolleyes.gifcool.gif
post #270 of 921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I'd guesstimate 5 ±2 years, give or take. tongue.gif
Excellent im curious to see how many will add extra speakers.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: D-cinema Equipment and Theaters
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › D-cinema Equipment and Theaters › Dolby Atmos Theatre System