or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Tech Talk › Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 6

post #151 of 584
can the 2 X 3d-xl, automatically switch between 2d and 3d content???
do both the 3d-xl simultaneously project for a brighter 2d ??

i am reading that the geobox 501 will do both the above!

what projector and curved silver screen ( approx 140 inches) would motorman recommend to go with geobox 501.
post #152 of 584
Thread Starter 
i do not have any 3d-xl's tp test but from what i understand you need to switch one of the boxes to match the others L/R selection to see 2d, but the image may not look good if the two projectors are even slightly missaligned. the geobx has a switch on the box and the remote to switch between 2d and 3d and with the alignment tool built in you will get great aligment to where 2d looks good with both projectors on. see some of the photos i posted in this thread a little ways back on this exact issue.
if your going with a curved screen you will get the most of it with an alignment system. i do not have any reccomendations for a silver screen as i dont use them, our 3d filter system dose not need a silver screen to funtion and you get hot spotting with the silver coating.
post #153 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by drlushan View Post

can the 2 X 3d-xl, automatically switch between 2d and 3d content???
do both the 3d-xl simultaneously project for a brighter 2d ??

i am reading that the geobox 501 will do both the above!

what projector and curved silver screen ( approx 140 inches) would motorman recommend to go with geobox 501.


The point of running two projectors is to achieve passive 3D, why would you want two projectors for 2D? A higher electric bill?

If one projector is not bright enough relative to it's postion away from the screen, it will not work in 3D due to the inherent loss of lumens passing through both filters before reaching the eye.

So are we to assume that you plan on watching 2D with the filters in place?

What the GeoBox does exceptionally well is edge blending and warpalization, the 3D-Xl simply does not have it and most people do not need it. That is, unless you are using a curved screen, then it's a must.


.
post #154 of 584
thanks rugrash for your response.

that brings up some questions that have been popping up in my mind.

we would still watch 80 % of time 2d content, even though i would like to setup for passive 3D--what do you all recommend??

1) a different screen and projector--i would really want to avoid that
2) spend money on a screen like vutec silverstar curved?? blackdiamond 2.7 gain ?? silver lite??
3) should i just switch on 1 projector??--does geobox automatically use one projector only for 2d content??
4) what is effect of polarizing filters--do they have to manually removed each time you want to view 2d--that would be a big pain!!???

i would really appreciate everyones help on this.
i am looking at 130 to 150 inch screen with 2 rows of seating. first row will be at 10-11 feet and 2nd row about 15-16 feet away.

if i go for geobox-- what screen, and projecotors and filters would you guys recommend??
thanks in advance for all the help
post #155 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drlushan View Post

thanks rugrash for your response.

that brings up some questions that have been popping up in my mind.

we would still watch 80 % of time 2d content, even though i would like to setup for passive 3D--what do you all recommend??

1) a different screen and projector--i would really want to avoid that
2) spend money on a screen like vutec silverstar curved?? blackdiamond 2.7 gain ?? silver lite??
3) should i just switch on 1 projector??--does geobox automatically use one projector only for 2d content??
4) what is effect of polarizing filters--do they have to manually removed each time you want to view 2d--that would be a big pain!!???

i would really appreciate everyones help on this.
i am looking at 130 to 150 inch screen with 2 rows of seating. first row will be at 10-11 feet and 2nd row about 15-16 feet away.

if i go for geobox-- what screen, and projecotors and filters would you guys recommend??
thanks in advance for all the help

i think your in a similar situation to most with a home theater where you will be watching 2D most of the time. any high gain silver screen will not provide as good of a 2D image as a matt white non silver screen curved or not.
1) do you have to buy a screen a screen now? and another projector ?
2) i would not go with silver high gain unless you plan on using polarizing
3) the geobox dose not control the projector power but can select 2d or 3d from the remote and with the alignment ability 2d looks great with filters in place
4) you can leave any 3d filter set in place if running both together for 2d or have a flip mount and run one projector with its filter moved out . it all depends on what is easiest for your mounting.

personally i reccomend my own 3d system so you dont need a silver screen but polarizers are fine for a lot of peoples choice. its really dependant on what projector you really want and what you want to get out of it.
post #156 of 584
I would recommend the Omega system over the others from the information that I have gleaned from user posts as well as those from motorman45.

You could simply hinge the filtering lens on one projector and flip it up or down, using bumpstops to retain alignment.

If the projectors are not optomized, there is a slight color loss that is easily/willingly sacrificed for the 3D effect.

So if the projectors are optomized, using both for 2D with the GeoBox alignment would be OK.

If the projectors are not optomized, you'd most likely want to use a single projector and position the filtering lens out of the way so that no color is lost.

Keep in mind that when I talk about color loss, it's with non-optimal projectors. Users have reported very good results with non-optomized projectors.

But to get full color or there abouts, both projectors must be used at the same time in 2D with the Omega filter system, unless a lens is positioned out of the way for 2D viewing.
post #157 of 584
Thread Starter 
post #158 of 584
I was just wondering, i read from somewhere the omega glasses have small lenses ?
that if you wanna watch really big picture from close you are gonna see the edges of glassed ?
im watching 133 inch (diagonal) picture from a distance of 165 inch
post #159 of 584
Thread Starter 
the lenses in the omega glasses are not really that small. they provide a good field of view. one dose not "see" 3d in your periferal vision only in the center of your eye. even without glasses you would have to move your eyes around or even head to see all of an image that size from as close as you are to the screen. from calculation ive made of my glasses if you have an average inter ocular distance between your eyes of 65mm the outer field of view is 80 deg so from 165" away you should be able to theoretically see 260 " wide image. if your interocular is smaller say 63mm apart and you take into account obstruction from the nose bridge you still have a fov of 67 deg making for a 200+" image at 165" distance...
with all that i have to say the projection filters will not work well on ultra short throw projectors, so as long as your throw ratio is 1.5:1 min or best closer to 2:1 you will get good performance.. that is not connected to the viewing distance.
post #160 of 584
so you are telling me that if i wanna project the same 133 inch diagonally, picture it would be optimal to be thrown from 266 inch ? luckyly i can move my projectors at 216 inch away from the screen.
post #161 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

so you are telling me that if i wanna project the same 133 inch diagonally, picture it would be optimal to be thrown from 266 inch ? luckyly i can move my projectors at 216 inch away from the screen.

yes at least for a dielectric filter system like ours it is best at a 2:1 throw but will work fine at the 1.6:1 throw. its just the 1:1 and shorter throw projectors give rise to issues with a system like this.
post #162 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

G-201 Quick User Manual-draft.pdf 484k .pdf file

Motorman, do you have any information about the price range of the G-201 yet? If it's surely over $1,000, then I will not waste any time waiting for it and go ahead buy 2 3D-XL plus a switcher. Please do let me know. Thanks.
post #163 of 584
@ Vann Janne
The omega glasses lenses are small compared to other types of glasses on the market. It doesn't mean they're tiny, it just means they're just not big. (compared to polarised glasses like RealD cinema glasses for example)

The glasses should be large enough considering your screen and viewing distance to be able to see the whole picture but only with small margins. Keep in mind that the lenses edges are within your eyes field of view as if you were wearing reading glasses (they are far from the size of sun glasses)
Regarding projection ratio, I would not recommend projection ratios as low as 1.5:1, I'd say you should target a ratio as high as your projectors allow, my setup is 1.8:1, there are small colour shifts near the edges of the screen, not a major problem but visible if you look at it. If you leave the lenses on the projector while doing computer stuff, you will see Windows start menu or the windows frames being the wrong colour in the corners of the screen. So I do recommend a 2:1 projection ratio or more.
(small note : projection ratio is measured relative to the screen width, not diagonal).
Edited by BlackShark - 2/6/13 at 3:00pm
post #164 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankwang90 View Post

Motorman, do you have any information about the price range of the G-201 yet? If it's surely over $1,000, then I will not waste any time waiting for it and go ahead buy 2 3D-XL plus a switcher. Please do let me know. Thanks.

$700 for the 201. not bad considering 2 3d-xls, a splitter and cables will run you almost 600. i will have a few in another week.
post #165 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

@ Vann Janne
The omega glasses lenses are small compared to other types of glasses on the market. It doesn't mean they're tiny, it just means they're just not big. (compared to polarised glasses like RealD cinema glasses for example)

The glasses should be large enough considering your screen and viewing distance to be able to see the whole picture but only with small margins. Keep in mind that the lenses edges are within your eyes field of view as if you were wearing reading glasses (they are far from the size of sun glasses)
Regarding projection ratio, I would not recommend projection ratios as low as 1.5:1, I'd say you should target a ratio as high as your projectors allow, my setup is 1.8:1, there are small colour shifts near the edges of the screen, not a major problem but visible if you look at it. If you leave the lenses on the projector while doing computer stuff, you will see Windows start menu or the windows frames being the wrong colour in the corners of the screen. So I do recommend a 2:1 projection ratio or more.
(small note : projection ratio is measured relative to the screen width, not diagonal).

i agree that the omega filters will function better with throw ratios over 1.8:1 but the color change toward the corners you mention are somewhat dependant on the projector output spectrum as well as filter / angle functions. i do not see but only the faintest color variation at 1.5:1 throw on my hd20's. now its a different story with a pair of LCD's i had where i could see more of an issue complicated by the shorter throw as well as the spectral profile of the projector.
post #166 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

$700 for the 201. not bad considering 2 3d-xls, a splitter and cables will run you almost 600. i will have a few in another week.

Good to know, now the price is more justifiable considering getting a single device solution for just a couple hundreds more.

Also have you been testing with your G-201? is there any issue or limitation?
post #167 of 584
Can you tell me what are the measures in mm of your filters so i can start building my filter holder. length, hight, width ? 35 X 47 mm, with mounting border. ? hows the thicknes ?

is bjomejag selling your product ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-by-Omega-Complete-Kit-for-Dual-Projectors-including-5-pairs-of-Glasses-/150955452736?pt=US_Projector_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2325a56940
is it lcd or dlp version ?
post #168 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

Can you tell me what are the measures in mm of your filters so i can start building my filter holder. length, hight, width ? 35 X 47 mm, with mounting border. ? hows the thicknes ?

is bjomejag selling your product ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3D-by-Omega-Complete-Kit-for-Dual-Projectors-including-5-pairs-of-Glasses-/150955452736?pt=US_Projector_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2325a56940
is it lcd or dlp version ?

the usable area of the small filter is 55mmx 35mm and the boarder is aluminum with 3mm holes on two sides. i dont have the dimmentions for the overall with the mount here but i will post it. bjomega is the owner of the company and its his ebay account. they are also listed on amazon and another ebay listing. all the same product. you can specify DLP or LCD projection filters when you order.
post #169 of 584
@motorman,
can you tell me the light loss in % of your system (filters and glasses) by using DLP /UHP based projectors?

thank you
post #170 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz* View Post

@motorman,
can you tell me the light loss in % of your system (filters and glasses) by using DLP /UHP based projectors?

thank you

this was covered extensively in the ultame passive 3d thread. its best to understand 3d in general and compare efficiency relative to other 3d systems. in cinema testing durring development of this 3d system the calibrated dci numbers are as follows, ReaD Z = 15% efficent, Dolby 3d = 12% efficient, Xpand = 17%, RealD XL = 28%, omega 3D / Panavision 3d= 18-20%.

now that was all a former version of of my filters and since the version we have is a little better but it all is dependant on the actual spectrum from a given projector and the state of calibration. LCD projectors have far less spectral range due to deep filter notches in cyan and yellow as well as a blue / violet blocking filter to protect the LCD/LCoS matrix. DLP dose not have the deep cuts in spectrum in most small DLP units.

UHP ( mercury ) lamps have poor color rendering due to spikes in output in green and they lack red performance. every maker has their own method of filtering in the color wheels that vary the kind of performance one gets with a spectral filtering method like ours. for the most part conferance room projectors have the most spectral range and the least spectral filtering and hence are more efficient with this method, but the color is not as good as a home theater DLP.
my last tests of a DLP/UHP home theater projector using optoma HD20's shows far better than 25% efficiency . infitec claims they are better than the older dolby version of their chomatic filter tech but its a lot of hype. people get too cought up in numbers

the method and equipment needed to actually test this is very specific as one needs to make measurements thru the glasses of energy reflected from a screen being innuminated by the filtered light. the measurment device needs to have spectral resolution of 1nm or so to make any accurate measure of whats going on. ive built my own device for doing this as well as spent a few years refining the system and the tools needed to quantify performance.

one important thign to keep in mind is the % efficiency is not a good measure by itself of a 3d system . its also the level of extiction of the other eye's energy. it dose one no good to have a high throughput if there is crosstalk / ghosting. we get 1000:1 s/n on center while getting out % efficency, polarizing mostly retains ~80:1 at best and 45-50:1 in a lot of setups. the dolby i get to test in LA had ten times the ghosting of our system while getting less % light and terrible color balance without the color correction server setup just right.

dose that help ??
post #171 of 584
yes it helps so far,
did you compare your actual Omega flter with Infitec excellent filter series?
excellent+ series?

If yes, can you report the differences?

thank you
Edited by Fritz* - 2/16/13 at 2:42pm
post #172 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz* View Post

yes it helps so far,
did you compare your actual Omega flter with Infitec excellent filter series?
excellent+ series?

If yes, can you report the differences?

thank you

no one can buy infitec projection filters but people involved in cinema instalations. the glasses on the other hand i have seen and they have poor extiction, at least the ones with the coatings on mylar. you sound connected to infitec. the projector filters in the new 3-4 design are different enough from their glasses like the older dolby system that one cannot evaluate the system without having the entire system and the color correction server. i wouldnt refer to it as exellent, maybe decent.
from the way they split the spectrum it wold not function well for color balance between eyes in a uhp lamp based system without digital color correction. if you are part of them and want to talk further private message me.
Cheers
post #173 of 584
i am a customer and heard about Infitec´s actual filter series called "Excellent" and the brandnew series "Excellent+" coming this year.
Also an new Filter-wheel system for using in front of a single projector. Shown on ISE two weeks ago in Amsterdam.
This is anounced in a price range between 1200 - 2000.-€



infitec is not for "professional only" . They offers and sell their products and implementation service to everybody who want´s it and pay it.
Edited by Fritz* - 2/17/13 at 2:08pm
post #174 of 584
Why spend $2000 and have to deal with a filter wheel spinning in front of your projector.
It seems the Omega Passive 3D System goes in front of the two projector lenses and each eye gets max throughput with no spinning parts, for $400, and you can watch 2D if you want without removing anything.
post #175 of 584
A 2000$ wheel may not make sense for us who use <2000$ projectors, but it may make a big difference for theatres where projectors cost significantly more. I think cinemas believe the cost of the second projector isn't worth the the price and complexity.
post #176 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

A 2000$ wheel may not make sense for us who use <2000$ projectors, but it may make a big difference for theatres where projectors cost significantly more. I think cinemas believe the cost of the second projector isn't worth the the price and complexity.

i agree, we looked at making a wheel for in front of a small projector but its costly when you include the control and mounts. cinema already uses these wheels in fact the wheels in the picture are cinema products, one is a 96mm wheel for barco and christie projectors and the other is i believe a 122mm wheel for older 2k systems. we make these as well with our tech in them and beat Dolby at extiction, efficiency and no need for the color gamut correction server rack system.
post #177 of 584
Thread Starter 
this also brings up a question, if the image is switching for a wheel with the 40% dark time for image change and all is it not an active system ? the flicker is created in the projector and not the glasses but its the same thing isnt it ? true passive 3D must be done with two projectors.
post #178 of 584
I was searching the internet for full HD 3d projector solutions, and found this.

Read the whole thread and saw all the videos, and it looks good.

Motorman45: I read in the beginning of the thread that you built a rig with 2 x Optoma HD20 projectors. Did it work well?
I ask because I have one of them already and can get another one for a good price. I also noticed that these projectors dont have lens shift, how did you correctly overlap the picture without it?

If it works well with these projectors I'm buying smile.gif
post #179 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aVertigo View Post

I was searching the internet for full HD 3d projector solutions, and found this.

Read the whole thread and saw all the videos, and it looks good.

Motorman45: I read in the beginning of the thread that you built a rig with 2 x Optoma HD20 projectors. Did it work well?
I ask because I have one of them already and can get another one for a good price. I also noticed that these projectors dont have lens shift, how did you correctly overlap the picture without it?

If it works well with these projectors I'm buying smile.gif

im glad you found this thread. it will give you the best 3D you have seen. the Optoma HD20 is one of the best projectors for our 3D filter sysem i have tested to date for home theater. you can see some images i posted here that i took using these hd20's and the filters on a 14' screen.
i do not need lens shift as i can place the projectors where i need them to be. the rack i made has adjustment to one shelf to tilt the top projector a little to get the images close enough for 3d. as one eye dose not see the others image the small missalignments are not seen. the images i posted though were perfectly aligned using the geobox G-501 demultiplexer and its image warp/alignment tools to get the two images so well aligned that 2D with both units on and filters left in place looks great. i can just switch between 2d and 3d with a remote. the box takes hdmi in and automatically splits a 3d image to the two projectors.

the other method is to use an htpc and a good dual output video card and the stereoscopic player to demultiplex the 3d,

any other questions i can help with just ask.
post #180 of 584
Thats good to hear.

Does the range from the projector to the screen matter? The distance is about 11-12 feet.
I will also have to mount the projectors upside down at this distance for the picture to be where I want it to be, is this a problem with the mounting of the filters?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 3D Tech Talk
AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Tech Talk › Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread