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Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 8

post #211 of 584
Hi. I've got question regarding this two-projector-setup.
Commercial 3D blu rays are composed to display the 3D image on standard 3D TVs. The disparity of "far points" must not exceed 6,5cm (the average eye distance) in order to not force the eyes to diverge. This is normally not a problem with standard size TVs but with large screens. I've seen the Epson TW 6000 which handles this issue by just shifting L nad R images against each other in 3D mode (or shifting he image towards the viewer), so that far points do not cause problems.
How do you handle this issue with this DIY two projectors - system (without physically shifting them)? Does the "cheapest" demultiplexer geobox G-201 support horizontal alignment of left and right images for this 3D distance adjustment? Iv'e seen a few 3D blu ray players supporting an adjustment of the screen size for 3D but I'm not sure, if this really does effect this issue. Has anyone experience/recommendations on that? THX
post #212 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philiwahnilli View Post

Hi. I've got question regarding this two-projector-setup.
Commercial 3D blu rays are composed to display the 3D image on standard 3D TVs. The disparity of "far points" must not exceed 6,5cm (the average eye distance) in order to not force the eyes to diverge. This is normally not a problem with standard size TVs but with large screens. I've seen the Epson TW 6000 which handles this issue by just shifting L nad R images against each other in 3D mode (or shifting he image towards the viewer), so that far points do not cause problems.
How do you handle this issue with this DIY two projectors - system (without physically shifting them)? Does the "cheapest" demultiplexer geobox G-201 support horizontal alignment of left and right images for this 3D distance adjustment? Iv'e seen a few 3D blu ray players supporting an adjustment of the screen size for 3D but I'm not sure, if this really does effect this issue. Has anyone experience/recommendations on that? THX

in 3d images there is a wide range of image separation all depending on the distance to each object in a frame and how the 3d was created, there is no one distance, in fact when making a real and not simulated 3d image the separation between the two cameras varies depending on the distance to an object and the effect the cinemaphotgrapher wants to create.

there is no issue at all with content matching up in any 3d capable display. the edjustment you may be seeing is a paralax adjustment that is used to adjust the ammount of 3d depth. in most cases this is not needed at all.

there is nothing one needs to do in a dual projector setup other than align the two projectors on the screen. the geobox's in general do not have a paralax adjustment as its not needed, some software like stereoscopic player has this in it.

in the DIY dual projector rigs one just needs two projectors, a method of demultiplexing a 3d image and a filter / glasses set, oh and a wall or screen. the advantages of this kind of rig is that both eyes "see" a full constant image for a true passive 3d experiance you dont even get in a cinema. even realD 3d in a cinema the image is flickering back and forth from left to right eye image by means of a filter wheel or pannel inside or in front of the projector. only high end theaters that use two projectors offer a true passive viewing experiance.

so a dual rig is the ultimate in 3d and i have to say our filters combined with the right projectors is of the highers 3d image quality..
post #213 of 584
So after a very long hiatus I have decided to revisit this technology to see if it is suitable for my project. The first time I encountered it I left a thought provoking post in RDJAM's "Ultimate 3D projection system" discussion thread here on page 64 with the hope that if motorman could provide the missing perspective that I referred to, then everyone would be able to realize the full potential of the omega system.

Apparently this "missing perspective" existed all along mainly in the form of this review which I only discovered from reading this thread. The information there is VERY empowering
if you understand its implications.

Since the very first time I read about the omega system I couldn't understand why it did not and still has not become the de facto standard for home theater systems with dual projectors. Now that I've read the review and seen the test results and done some calculations of my own I realize the reason is simple.
For the optimum viewing experience of 3D content using the omega system you would need projectors capable of outputting somewhere between 8000 lumens to 16, 000 lumens (depending on screen size).

That right there is the main reason why people have not gotten the best out of this system. Issues like throw distance and color balance/uniformity are secondary to the issue of projector output. Furthermore the types of projectors capable of the output required to make the best use of the omega system are also less prone to color balance and uniformity issues since these are the type of projectors the system was originally designed to be used with. These types of projectors also have throw distance ratios that are perfect for the omega system. If you can find a pair of dlp or xenon projectors that are capable of this output range I believe that 95% of all problems with the system will be gone.
For example if you are intent on a 16FL screen brightness when viewing 3d content on a high contrast (0.8 gain) large screen 16ft x 9ft (220" diagonal) then based on the test results of that review you will need 16, 000 lumen light canons to achieve such a goal. Not impossible but certainly not in the domain of cheap sub $5000 consumer home theater projectors.
post #214 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttview View Post

So after a very long hiatus I have decided to revisit this technology to see if it is suitable for my project. The first time I encountered it I left a thought provoking post in RDJAM's "Ultimate 3D projection system" discussion thread here on page 64 with the hope that if motorman could provide the missing perspective that I referred to, then everyone would be able to realize the full potential of the omega system.

Apparently this "missing perspective" existed all along mainly in the form of this review which I only discovered from reading this thread. The information there is VERY empowering
if you understand its implications.

Since the very first time I read about the omega system I couldn't understand why it did not and still has not become the de facto standard for home theater systems with dual projectors. Now that I've read the review and seen the test results and done some calculations of my own I realize the reason is simple.
For the optimum viewing experience of 3D content using the omega system you would need projectors capable of outputting somewhere between 8000 lumens to 16, 000 lumens (depending on screen size).

That right there is the main reason why people have not gotten the best out of this system. Issues like throw distance and color balance/uniformity are secondary to the issue of projector output. Furthermore the types of projectors capable of the output required to make the best use of the omega system are also less prone to color balance and uniformity issues since these are the type of projectors the system was originally designed to be used with. These types of projectors also have throw distance ratios that are perfect for the omega system. If you can find a pair of dlp or xenon projectors that are capable of this output range I believe that 95% of all problems with the system will be gone.
For example if you are intent on a 16FL screen brightness when viewing 3d content on a high contrast (0.8 gain) large screen 16ft x 9ft (220" diagonal) then based on the test results of that review you will need 16, 000 lumen light canons to achieve such a goal. Not impossible but certainly not in the domain of cheap sub $5000 consumer home theater projectors.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about why Motorman's Omega system hasn't caught on. Let's ignore 3D for a moment, if you want to get 16FL on a high contrast (.8 gain) 16X9 screen (220" diagonal), you aren't going to be able to do that with a $5,000 home theater projector. In fact, I don't think there are any projectors under $30,000 that could do that.

So discounting the Omega system because you need very bright projectors for a 220" screen doesn't seem to be a fair argument. I think most people that would be spending 2 - 3K on a projector realize they will probably need to be in the 100" - 150" range for screen size, and I think having two projectors (rather than one) compensates for much of the loss of light from the filters and glasses. Accordingly, I think whatever your screen size for a 2D projector can stay relatively the same for a passive 3D setup if you go with two projectors.

One possible candidate would be the Benq W7000, it streets for about $1,700 and seems to put out quite a bit of light to be a good match with the Omega system.
post #215 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttview View Post

So after a very long hiatus I have decided to revisit this technology to see if it is suitable for my project. The first time I encountered it I left a thought provoking post in RDJAM's "Ultimate 3D projection system" discussion thread here on page 64 with the hope that if motorman could provide the missing perspective that I referred to, then everyone would be able to realize the full potential of the omega system.

Apparently this "missing perspective" existed all along mainly in the form of this review which I only discovered from reading this thread. The information there is VERY empowering
if you understand its implications.

Since the very first time I read about the omega system I couldn't understand why it did not and still has not become the de facto standard for home theater systems with dual projectors. Now that I've read the review and seen the test results and done some calculations of my own I realize the reason is simple.
For the optimum viewing experience of 3D content using the omega system you would need projectors capable of outputting somewhere between 8000 lumens to 16, 000 lumens (depending on screen size).

That right there is the main reason why people have not gotten the best out of this system. Issues like throw distance and color balance/uniformity are secondary to the issue of projector output. Furthermore the types of projectors capable of the output required to make the best use of the omega system are also less prone to color balance and uniformity issues since these are the type of projectors the system was originally designed to be used with. These types of projectors also have throw distance ratios that are perfect for the omega system. If you can find a pair of dlp or xenon projectors that are capable of this output range I believe that 95% of all problems with the system will be gone.
For example if you are intent on a 16FL screen brightness when viewing 3d content on a high contrast (0.8 gain) large screen 16ft x 9ft (220" diagonal) then based on the test results of that review you will need 16, 000 lumen light canons to achieve such a goal. Not impossible but certainly not in the domain of cheap sub $5000 consumer home theater projectors.

i would respectfully dissagree with the statment about lumens needed. ive run several dual stacks with 2000 to 2700 lumen projectors on my 170" screen with very bright results. throw ratio is not a problem for most home theater units , anyting between 1.5:1 and up work perfectly. color uniformity is spot on at 1.7:1 and up.
color imbalance is an issue with LCD projectors and our LCD optomized filters work great for %95 of LCD users. most home theaters are 120" screens and under. not 220" . i had developed this system for cinema and 16 Fl is high for even the best cinemas. the target for theaters that Panavision installed our system in was 12 Fl and that is better than a lot of other 3D tech out there.

with hundreds of kits sold the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. with respect to that review you posted i have a lot of respect for him but the testing and measurements were not accurate. i had to build a special custom spectroradiomter in order to effectiveley measure crostal and color balance of a chromatic 3d system and the ghosing is so low it is nearly impossible to measure it is actually 0.05%. the color imbalance was discussed a lot in this thread and the ultimate thread. look at the photos posted where i used no color adjustemnts and a good color chart. i admit that some projectors especially JVC and Sony can have greater L to R imbalance, but it worked so well that Sony themselves approved the system and installed it using their 4k SXRD projectors.
post #216 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post



with hundreds of kits sold the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. with respect to that review you posted i have a lot of respect for him but the testing and measurements were not accurate. i had to build a special custom spectroradiomter in order to effectiveley measure crostal and color balance of a chromatic 3d system and the ghosing is so low it is nearly impossible to measure it is actually 0.05%. the color imbalance was discussed a lot in this thread and the ultimate thread. look at the photos posted where i used no color adjustemnts and a good color chart. i admit that some projectors especially JVC and Sony can have greater L to R imbalance, but it worked so well that Sony themselves approved the system and installed it using their 4k SXRD projectors.

If you have sold hundreds of kits, do you have a website or just the various offerings on ebay? Perhaps I've overlooked in this thread, but do you have any sort of FAQ about the system? Some questions I have are:

1. How do the omega filters work when watching 2D content, do they need to be removed?
2. Do you have a list of recommended projectors at certain price points?
3. Do you have any packages with the Geobox as that seems to really complete the system?
4. Do you have any accessories for mounting the filters in front of the projectors?
5. Are there any issues with using the Omega filters and an anamorphic lens?
post #217 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

If you have sold hundreds of kits, do you have a website or just the various offerings on ebay? Perhaps I've overlooked in this thread, but do you have any sort of FAQ about the system? Some questions I have are:

1. How do the omega filters work when watching 2D content, do they need to be removed?
2. Do you have a list of recommended projectors at certain price points?
3. Do you have any packages with the Geobox as that seems to really complete the system?
4. Do you have any accessories for mounting the filters in front of the projectors?
5. Are there any issues with using the Omega filters and an anamorphic lens?


You make some good points. we do need a better website. but the kits we sell were initially spare parts from our cinema installations we decided to let DIY fans have access to. 3D is a side line to what our company really makes, high end aerospace, astronomy and biomedical imaging optics.
but to respond to youre points
1. they work perfectly for 2D left in place on a dual stack if you have the image alignment of say the geobox 501
2. i do have a list of known ideal projectors in the threads but it would be good to post these on a website
3. yes i offer the geobox 501 with warp/alignment alone and in a bundle ( pm for price for the 501) and the 201 that is the same but without warp for $699 alone or $999 with the optics.
4. the filters come in a mounting frame but i do not have mounts as every install is custom and inteded to be DIY
5. no issue with an anamorphic as long as the filter is behind the anemographic lens. i have a user doing this now.


i will talk to my marketing group to see if they could add this to our page on our compnay site

http://www.omegafilters.com/Capabilities/3-D_Glasses_and_Projector_Filters/

thanks ..
post #218 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning about why Motorman's Omega system hasn't caught on. Let's ignore 3D for a moment, if you want to get 16FL on a high contrast (.8 gain) 16X9 screen (220" diagonal), you aren't going to be able to do that with a $5,000 home theater projector. In fact, I don't think there are any projectors under $30,000 that could do that.

So discounting the Omega system because you need very bright projectors for a 220" screen doesn't seem to be a fair argument. I think most people that would be spending 2 - 3K on a projector realize they will probably need to be in the 100" - 150" range for screen size, and I think having two projectors (rather than one) compensates for much of the loss of light from the filters and glasses. Accordingly, I think whatever your screen size for a 2D projector can stay relatively the same for a passive 3D setup if you go with two projectors.

One possible candidate would be the Benq W7000, it streets for about $1,700 and seems to put out quite a bit of light to be a good match with the Omega system.

I know 220" diagonal isn't an average situation and thus not necessarily a fair argument but that's the screen size of my current project and I used it as an extreme example because until now I never realized what lumen output would be required for such a screen size using omega filters. Also you say no $5000 projector for 2D only content could produce 16 FL on a screen that size but we're talking about dual stacked projectors not single projector use and I'm sure that dual stacked projectors in the $5000 consumer price range can produce enough light to reproduce 2D at 16FL on a screen of this size but I could be wrong.

The one point I wanted to drive home is that after I read that review and realized that actual test results with the omega filters and glasses show only between 16% to 22% of light was really reaching the eyes, for optimum 3D content viewing, the omega filter system would require projectors to be 4 to 5 times brighter than for 2D. I understand that there were measurement errors now that I've read motorman's response but I made my assumptions based on the test results of the review, my calculator and nothing but those 2 things.
post #219 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

i would respectfully dissagree with the statment about lumens needed. ive run several dual stacks with 2000 to 2700 lumen projectors on my 170" screen with very bright results. throw ratio is not a problem for most home theater units , anyting between 1.5:1 and up work perfectly. color uniformity is spot on at 1.7:1 and up.
color imbalance is an issue with LCD projectors and our LCD optomized filters work great for %95 of LCD users. most home theaters are 120" screens and under. not 220" . i had developed this system for cinema and 16 Fl is high for even the best cinemas. the target for theaters that Panavision installed our system in was 12 Fl and that is better than a lot of other 3D tech out there.

with hundreds of kits sold the feedback is overwhelmingly positive. with respect to that review you posted i have a lot of respect for him but the testing and measurements were not accurate. i had to build a special custom spectroradiomter in order to effectiveley measure crostal and color balance of a chromatic 3d system and the ghosing is so low it is nearly impossible to measure it is actually 0.05%. the color imbalance was discussed a lot in this thread and the ultimate thread. look at the photos posted where i used no color adjustemnts and a good color chart. i admit that some projectors especially JVC and Sony can have greater L to R imbalance, but it worked so well that Sony themselves approved the system and installed it using their 4k SXRD projectors.

you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.

Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.

So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.
post #220 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttview View Post

you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.

Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.

So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.

one problem with measuring or stating a value for brightness is the subjectiveness of ones rig, room, stray light and tool used to measure with. also state of calibration of a projector vs the rated output care very different. Foot Lamberts are used in cinema mostly and in home theater realm people refer to lumens. but the real issue is efficiency of a 3D system, that is independant of what projectors or screen size one uses.
there was a long discussion of this earlier in the ultimate 3d thread.
our system beat out Dolby, RealD Z and Xpand as far as %eff goes.

if you would like to see our system in person i invite you to southern Vermont and will show you a private demo on two different rigs in my matt white 170" screen anytime. in fact anyone who wants to come to Brattleboro Vermont and see a demo of the omega 3D system just let me know.
post #221 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttview View Post

you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.

Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.

So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.


You say you have not seen any 3D better than IMAX and you are not willing to compromise, but have you ever seen any passive 3D like the Omega system, or just polarizer 3D?
Speaking from experience, The Passive 3D from the Omega system makes the polarizer systems that you see in the theaters look like a joke.
You shouldn't question the FL issue at this point.
If you are so in need of massive FL's go buy some $10,000-$20,000 projectors and put them in your basement and rock on!
post #222 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

You make some good points. we do need a better website. but the kits we sell were initially spare parts from our cinema installations we decided to let DIY fans have access to. 3D is a side line to what our company really makes, high end aerospace, astronomy and biomedical imaging optics.
but to respond to youre points
1. they work perfectly for 2D left in place on a dual stack if you have the image alignment of say the geobox 501
2. i do have a list of known ideal projectors in the threads but it would be good to post these on a website
3. yes i offer the geobox 501 with warp/alignment alone and in a bundle ( pm for price for the 501) and the 201 that is the same but without warp for $699 alone or $999 with the optics.
4. the filters come in a mounting frame but i do not have mounts as every install is custom and inteded to be DIY
5. no issue with an anamorphic as long as the filter is behind the anemographic lens. i have a user doing this now.


i will talk to my marketing group to see if they could add this to our page on our compnay site

http://www.omegafilters.com/Capabilities/3-D_Glasses_and_Projector_Filters/

thanks ..

Thanks, that was very helpful and yes, I think having a website to cover these types of questions would be very helpful for your business. Two other quick follow-up questions.

1. For 2D watching with a Geobox 501, I assume you don't need to still watch with the glasses on correct? Instead, is it correct you would still have two projectors on (for increased brightness) with the filters in place, but just a standard 2D image.
2. A while back someone asked about dual-play, I don't see that you replied. Here is a quick video explaining how this works on LG Tv's, and I think Sony has this to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbRG-KfWyVc Is that something that could work with the Geobox 501?
post #223 of 584
it´s the glasses that do dual play. if you ment 2 people playing full screen 2D.
other glasses with 2 left and other with 2 right lenses. Common sense
post #224 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Thanks, that was very helpful and yes, I think having a website to cover these types of questions would be very helpful for your business. Two other quick follow-up questions.

1. For 2D watching with a Geobox 501, I assume you don't need to still watch with the glasses on correct? Instead, is it correct you would still have two projectors on (for increased brightness) with the filters in place, but just a standard 2D image.
2. A while back someone asked about dual-play, I don't see that you replied. Here is a quick video explaining how this works on LG Tv's, and I think Sony has this to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbRG-KfWyVc Is that something that could work with the Geobox 501?

yes you can watch 2D just fine with the 501 box, both projectors on and filters in place with no glasses. when the alignment is spot on the way the 501 can make it 2D looks great. here is a photo of my 170" screen both projectors on and filters in place



Vaan is correct it is in the glasses. i have done with with an Xbox and CoD black ops. i tool the lenses out of two frames and made a left pair and right pair of glasses. each person can see their own full screen 2D image without seeing the other players screen, all on the same screen. its pretty cool and better than the over under split screen dual play. the geobox 501 dose this fine. the 201 also will for less money but dose not have alignment.
post #225 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttview View Post

you say you used up to 2700 lumen projectors with very bright results but what you don't understand is that because ron took the time to post actual figures it's easier to accept his review as factual.
Instead of saying you had "very bright results" on your 170" screen why not just do measurements and record your findings? Some people are ok with ball park performance but I prefer to know exactly what i'm dealing with so that's why I prefer to do tests and measure things to ensure quality and consistency and eliminate disappointment. I wish it was you writing that same review in almost exactly that format just posting accurate measurement results.

Even though the target in theaters was 12 FL I have information from a VERY reliable source that the reason why IMAX digital cinemas produce such amazing 3D content is not only because of screen sizes but also because they aim for 22 FL of screen brightness. Since IMAX quality is the best quality i've seen I aim to be as close to their standard as possible on a smaller scale. To get that effect i'm sure 12 FL is going to disappoint. Also I have never once experienced 3D in any environment outside of IMAX digital that I have been entirely pleased with so i'm sure that 16 FL or higher is very necessary for the best 3D experience.

So I believe that you may have been done somewhat of an injustice with that review's results but my concerns weren't really cross talk or color balance in the first place. Just actual image brightness reaching the eyes.

If you really need the extra lumens, I'm wondering if you could possibly go to four projectors, Airflex seems to indicate that you can, see info here: http://www.airflex5d.com/af5d30.html

Motorman - Is it possible to still do passive 3d with four projectors, with two being for the left eye, and two for the right eye? I see the Airflex 5d has an HDMI loop output, so it seems that you could bridge in more projectors if needed. Or is the 4 projector scenario only for increased brightness for 2D images?
post #226 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

If you really need the extra lumens, I'm wondering if you could possibly go to four projectors, Airflex seems to indicate that you can, see info here: http://www.airflex5d.com/af5d30.html

Motorman - Is it possible to still do passive 3d with four projectors, with two being for the left eye, and two for the right eye? I see the Airflex 5d has an HDMI loop output, so it seems that you could bridge in more projectors if needed. Or is the 4 projector scenario only for increased brightness for 2D images?

you can do 4 projector 3d easily, you will need 2 demultiplexers like the geobox or airflex or VIP evolver. maybe one could do it with a single demux and two splitters but i think there are issues with that.
post #227 of 584
Thread Starter 
We have the Geobox's in now. the 201 is now the Omega 201-D video demultiplexer. i will post an image soon. $699
post #228 of 584
I own a w6000 with 1500hrs on the bulb and love the brightness and picture quality in 2d. To buy another w6000 and the kit will cost us around $2500...
So to get the wife onboard I took her out to see Startrek in RealD 3d at the local theater. In short she was not impressed. The next day it looked like she had welders flash in her eyes.
And the brightness contrast... The faces and lights in the picture are nice and bright but everything els is really dim...
Is that normal for 3d or is the omega system better than RealD in terms of brightness?
Edited by Venom09 - 5/22/13 at 4:59am
post #229 of 584
Sorry for the noob question but is it possible to use band pass filters from omega glasses on the front of projectors?
Has anybody tried this?
I saw a similiar solution in thread about dolby3d passive projection.

6 pairs of omega 3d glasses costs only 100$ on ebay...
post #230 of 584
i will be using two optoma hd600x dlp projectors with 2 3D-XL,S ,ordered the omega 5 glasses kit a few days ago,its great to know if the 3D-XLs fail i can buy an inexpensive demultiplexer,cant wait for the kit,ive been using active glasses and find them quite dark.
post #231 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrokis View Post

Sorry for the noob question but is it possible to use band pass filters from omega glasses on the front of projectors?
Has anybody tried this?
I saw a similiar solution in thread about dolby3d passive projection.

6 pairs of omega 3d glasses costs only 100$ on ebay...


It wont work very well at all. the eye glasses lens coating is not the same. you will get ghosting and color variation that defeats the design and performance the system is known for. the guys that tried this with dolby lenses did not like it too much and that system is similar in that the projection filter is not the same coating as the glasses, and you cannot buy dolby projection filters. you can buy ours...
post #232 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom09 View Post

I own a w6000 with 1500hrs on the bulb and love the brightness and picture quality in 2d. To buy another w6000 and the kit will cost us around $2500...
So to get the wife onboard I took her out to see Startrek in RealD 3d at the local theater. In short she was not impressed. The next day it looked like she had welders flash in her eyes.
And the brightness contrast... The faces and lights in the picture are nice and bright but everything els is really dim...
Is that normal for 3d or is the omega system better than RealD in terms of brightness?

the omega system is higher efficiency than realD but all 3d loses lumens. some theater 3D systems are not well installed or calibrated. it really depends on the theater as much as the 3d system. a dual projector setup with look far better in your home than what you see in theaters.
post #233 of 584
Well, I promised give a short review on my new OMEGA 3D projector system. I turned out to be a DIY lesson, but maybe it's interesting for some freaks like me.

My Hardware:
- Geobox 201
- 2x Benq W1070 (1920x1080 DLP, 2000 lumens, 10%(of image height) vertical lensshift, 1,15-1,5 throw)
- Omega DLP small 3D kit

Firt of all I tried to place the filters in front of the lenses, but the filters only work fine with a throw larger than 1.5. So i just abdicated the projectors warranty and placed the filters inside the projectors. The result is a performance, which is slightly better than for the 1.5 throw and filters in front of the lens, but within the entire zoom range. Sounds easy, but, well, let's see.
first of all i opened the projector:

First try: place the filtes directly behind the lamp -> negative result, as the light is highly focussed onto the DLP roation wheel (area approx. 1,5cm square), and the numerical apertur (the angular spread) is to large, so you get a lot of partial color shift and lots of crosstalk - a pity, it could have been so easy...

Seconf try: Only way to get inside the 'optics', demount the zoom lens. The next image shows the DLP-optics box from the front (omega filter inside are already inside, but not yet within the light path).

To get a better overview of how the optics inside work:

And the red box is where I placed my filters. How did I do this?
For some reason (maybe maintainance & repair) there is a little hole/slot in the top, covered by a small plate:

And as I wanted to watch movies in 2D using only one projector the challenge was to remove the filter occasionally. So i 'designed' a aluminium block, cut out 16x16mm pieces out ot the filters and mountet them to some wire using epoxy (i know, pretty much quick & dirty, but it works):

I placed the alu box inside the slot (from the top), bend the wire monted at the filters by 90degree to fit in a little hole inside the box, so i could fasten teh filters from the top using a standard screw. DONE.
now there's the filter in front of the lens that collimates the outer light (coming from the ratation wheel) into the chamber with al the other optics:

And the good thing, I can easy remove the filters by pulling the alu block from the top though the top slot (the filter won't fit through the top slot but the lift is just enough to clear the lens).
I realized the lift from outside the projector by another wire i can easily push or pull (and up to know fasten it by duct tape occasionally ;-) ).
Any questions?

OK the performance:
Virtually NO crosstalk. The lamp has not a pretty FULL color spectrum, so you get some color error. The Benq W1070 has a fine tuning Hue/Gain/Offset adjustment for 6 colors (RGB & CMY). you can compensate most of the color error, but thanks to mother nature and our own built in white balance, the rest is done by your own eyes (this assumes that you dont have other white light in your flat). I only see a noticable luminance difference at really deep red and cyan tones, but you won't notice in a movie, and it's a litlle drawback I can live with respect to the rest of the performance.

I have the geobox 201, so alignment has to be done manually. Even with lens shift (which is just enough with the BENQ W1070) image alignment is a nightmare, but once you got it, you really have FULL HD, no Flicker or crosstalk and a really great picture. In my opinion, it's much better and brighter than the commercial cinemas. I'm enjoying it a lot.

I've got a general recommendation for this DIY two projector system. The depth in recently published 3D BDs is much more professional in terms of far field points. So you newer get problems on large screen, however, in older IMAX 3D movies sometimes the far-field disparity is so huge on a large screen, that the eyes have to diverge and the 3D effect is decomposed or really uncofortable. Since the geobox 201 is not able to do a hotizontal alignment (adjustment of depth) I recommend a very good bluray player: Panasonic DMP-BDT234EG. It's able to adjust the depth (shift the 3D image towards you) so that this problem is minimized. It also plays 3D MPO files and AVCHD 3D, so it's a good investment, especially for people who produce their own 3D content.
Edited by philiwahnilli - 6/4/13 at 10:21am
post #234 of 584
Question for Motorman, using your filters with 2 x BenQ W7000 projectors with fantastic results. While moving one of the lens, I put my oily finger on the lens and smudged it a little. What should I use to clean the lens, if I should? thanks
post #235 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymaxbirt View Post

Question for Motorman, using your filters with 2 x BenQ W7000 projectors with fantastic results. While moving one of the lens, I put my oily finger on the lens and smudged it a little. What should I use to clean the lens, if I should? thanks

anhydrous alcohol is best, but most any glass cleaner that dose not leave a residue is ok. even soap and hot water in the sink will clean them. you wont hurt the coating with these. glad to hear your having great results with my optics. the BenQ W7000 is an ideal projector for this system.
Edited by motorman45 - 6/8/13 at 4:45am
post #236 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by philiwahnilli View Post

Well, I promised give a short review on my new OMEGA 3D projector system. I turned out to be a DIY lesson, but maybe it's interesting for some freaks like me.


Fantastic write up, thanks for showing us how you installed the filters internally. this is the best way to use the filters and how they were orriginally used in cinema systems. i wish i could find a real interested partner to build a projector ( single unit ) around my filter tech without wanting to just take the IP.
Edited by motorman45 - 6/8/13 at 4:45am
post #237 of 584
Thread Starter 
Sorry this is a little late for some but we will be lisitng a 3D experimenters kit for $125. it will have 2 pairs of glasses and a pair of unmounted small end cuts from the manufacture of the 3D projection filters. it is intended to be used byt those wanting to do a test instal of internal filter mounting inside the projector like in the post above. the projector filters will have at least a 25mm squre good area and most are 30mm of usable filter for each projector. the glass is 1mm thick fused silica that is eaily cut by score and break or a diamond wet saw.
the most accurate way to cut thin glass is to bond the filter to a backing plate of window glass by melting how wax between the two and then using a wet or cooled diamond saw. then after cutting to the shape you want melt the wax on a hot plate and remove the filter from the backing and clean it up using solvents.
the kit should be listed soon on ebay.
post #238 of 584
I have been looking for the Geoboc G-501. Earlier in the thread you said it would sell for $1299.00. Is that price still good and where can I locate one to purchase. Thanks.
post #239 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

I have been looking for the Geoboc G-501. Earlier in the thread you said it would sell for $1299.00. Is that price still good and where can I locate one to purchase. Thanks.

i have some 501's to sell but that price was not confirmed at the time. since then the costs went up to us. PM me for a price. it will be the best price you will find on one.
post #240 of 584
Thread Starter 
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