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Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread - Page 2

post #31 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

by the way BlackShark great post with the pictures ! i think the test pattern showing color differance side by side is good. i would like to try that type of pattern as well so i can take some shots of the different projectors i can get my hands on. where did you get that?

I made the central pattern myself using Microsoft Paint, I put my projectors in a side by side spanned desktop, maximized Microsoft Paint across the dual-desktop and painted some colour by hand approximately next to each other. It is as far as you can imagine from a proper professional pattern (you can see in the picture that most stuff doesn't even line up)
On the sides are some random colour wheels I found using google images, there are plenty of them to choose from, I didn't even edit them into the picture : you can see the FireFox browser window around them.
At the bottom are some windows explorer windows : they're there to make the picture brighter, my phone"s crappy camera would over-expose the patterns without these additional windows.

Just to make my previous post clearer : the Omega system is far from being bad, it's currently my favourite system and the one I've decided to keep using for a while (I still have my polarising filters and silverscreen, I can switch systems any time I want). The colour differences are definitely there but they're low enough to not be a major issue.
I just wanted to say it isn't perfect like some might imagine.

Motorman, when I read you, I wish I had chosen DLP projectors a few years ago, (my next projector purchase is still a few years away), I keep hearing people saying they don't have colour issues with DLP, I'm curious : can you take some pictures through the left and right lenses (like I did in my previous post), so that everyone can see how small the differences are ?
(you can do a colour chart like mine, but actual pictures of movies/games would be interesting to see the effects in a real usage situation)
post #32 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

I made the central pattern myself using Microsoft Paint, I put my projectors in a side by side spanned desktop, maximized Microsoft Paint across the dual-desktop and painted some colour by hand approximately next to each other. It is as far as you can imagine from a proper professional pattern (you can see in the picture that most stuff doesn't even line up)
On the sides are some random colour wheels I found using google images, there are plenty of them to choose from, I didn't even edit them into the picture : you can see the FireFox browser window around them.
At the bottom are some windows explorer windows : they're there to make the picture brighter, my phone"s crappy camera would over-expose the patterns without these additional windows.

Just to make my previous post clearer : the Omega system is far from being bad, it's currently my favourite system and the one I've decided to keep using for a while (I still have my polarising filters and silverscreen, I can switch systems any time I want). The colour differences are definitely there but they're low enough to not be a major issue.
I just wanted to say it isn't perfect like some might imagine.

Motorman, when I read you, I wish I had chosen DLP projectors a few years ago, (my next projector purchase is still a few years away), I keep hearing people saying they don't have colour issues with DLP, I'm curious : can you take some pictures through the left and right lenses (like I did in my previous post), so that everyone can see how small the differences are ?
(you can do a colour chart like mine, but actual pictures of movies/games would be interesting to see the effects in a real usage situation)

I appriciate the detailed description of how you made the chart. i actually made some simple ones pth ms paint but not as good as i should. i have found some patterns that help me adjust color but ive got some really good graphics programs i will make something in and share on here for color testing.
im glad you find it a good choice still with its flaws, it is not perfect for all home theater units. the variation in spectral output of the different projectors is not something i knew untill talking to all of you here. i was able to make this system perfect on cinema and meet DCI spec and got Disney to approve. it took moving the band locations and tweaking the band widths over a 3 year R&D trial. from all i learend i know i can balance things for a given type of projector. Barco, NEC,Christie and Sony as well as 35mm film all are different and the only major correction needed for them all to be fantastic on screen was the Sony sxrd correction. the others all used the same filtering system once optmized.
as far as DLP. i like them for the high output and more full spectrum. i know the non home theater types i used initially or conferance room types have nearly full spectrum but not the color, contrast and resolution needed for high end home theater. the Optoma HD20's do have a notch in the yellow i would prefer not to see but they perform far better than the infocus in104's i had in all respects but for lumens, still the pair of Optomas fill my ~170" screen well in 3D. i think the BenQ W6000 may be the ideal DLP with lens shift 2500 lumens, but i really would like to see the output spectrum before i say that. and its an affordable unit with good contrast and 1080p. i only can say the HD20 seems pretty good, best for ~110-120" screen in 3D even though im messing around with 150-179" image with the set.
i demo the system in an old church here in our town with the large screen and the crappy infocus in104's. it looks better than our local theater's 3D and has impressed many that come to watch my demo loops. i know all those that attend are not AV fans like all here but it is fun at least to show stuff.
i actually have a lot of fun creating the content for the demos with my vegas pro software.
post #33 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by maintman View Post

Cool! Let's hear more details. What equipment are you using with it?

Well folks don't make the things complicated. i already had a 5D theater which was set up by Chinese using polarization filters and silver screen. when I developed my own 3D home theater using Omega kit the results were amazing. I simply used two sony lcd projectors 1500 Lumens each. Nvidia Geforce 240 graphic card with a normal pc (duo core). Omega kit does not involve rocket science. Just align the projectors, put the filters infront and there you go. Its indeed simple. Do not confuse your self with color loss, brightness loss and other high tech trivial details. be simple and get the best.

CIAO
post #34 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arshad0312 View Post

Well folks don't make the things complicated. i already had a 5D theater which was set up by Chinese using polarization filters and silver screen. when I developed my own 3D home theater using Omega kit the results were amazing. I simply used two sony lcd projectors 1500 Lumens each. Nvidia Geforce 240 graphic card with a normal pc (duo core). Omega kit does not involve rocket science. Just align the projectors, put the filters infront and there you go. Its indeed simple. Do not confuse your self with color loss, brightness loss and other high tech trivial details. be simple and get the best.

CIAO

Thanks, im very glad it works so well for you. great feedback
post #35 of 584
Thread Starter 
Here is a test pattern i made. hae not had a chance to try it on my projector stack so sorry if its alignment is not perfect. it should be but i will refine it.
i mainly made it to make a color test for the two projectors for adjustment like the one BlackShark had shown.
i also have this as an mp4 video with some animation in it but i cannot upload it here
LL
post #36 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

Thanks, im very glad it works so well for you. great feedback

Hi Motorman.

Where can I get GEO501 from?
post #37 of 584
Motorman45 and BlackShark especially, Great Thread.
post #38 of 584
I was recently enthusiastic about the potential for the Brytewerks Model 1 projector for an Omega setup... until I got talking to their head honcho and he insulted me for no reason. If you're interested the full story is here.

I no longer have much confidence in their product ... of course I'd like to be wrong.
post #39 of 584
Thread Starter 
I cant belive his tone. it dose make one question the product. i have seen other projectors with large color lcd pannels and they dont work very well. you may be able to measure a large gamut but the quality of the color and black levels are another story. the intergrated HTPC is not a feature that draws me to it, and the lumens claimed ? well half that claimed is more than enough for most home theaters.
I have been looking at a lot of projectors and what i see i feel would be an ideal unit for our filter system in a dual stack is the BenQ W6000. i know its older than the W7000 but the 6000 has claimed higher lumens as well as all the other features of the 7000, and it has lens shift as well as being DLP and its affordable.
post #40 of 584
Isn't the Omega method basically just a multi-spectral version of anaglyph? If so, is there anything corresponding to the retinal rivalry seen with red/cyan coding when one color is predominantly red?

For example, suppose a large area of the image has a color which falls entirely within the (admittedly narrow) band of some color? How would this be seen by the other eye? Is this a concern that is not important in practice? If it is not important, my inquiring mind wants to know why.
post #41 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tiede View Post

Isn't the Omega method basically just a multi-spectral version of anaglyph? If so, is there anything corresponding to the retinal rivalry seen with red/cyan coding when one color is predominantly red?
For example, suppose a large area of the image has a color which falls entirely within the (admittedly narrow) band of some color? How would this be seen by the other eye? Is this a concern that is not important in practice? If it is not important, my inquiring mind wants to know why.

in some ways yes to the first part. this is a spectral S3D method but it is a miltispectral one not a binary one like anaglyph. dolby is also a spectral type but uses the idea of splitting RGB into two bands each. the omega system parses the whole visible output of the projector into two interlaced sets of bands that are closely spaced, ten in the current version. the way projectors work there is never a narrow spectral feature to a color coming from the light engine. its usually only as fine as the RGB bands made by the wheel of dichroics.
the eye is also like this in that it is a broad band spectral sensor and color is a fine differance between what the cones "see" that being said there are subtle color differances in some colors duw to the type of spectral output that UHP lams have in combination with the RGB filtering method used in a given projector. I tent to reccomend DLP technology as the output spectrum of these is usually more complete than the dips and notches to the spectrum of LCD units. not that this is a flaw in any way in my mind with LCD mearly the develpoed approach to making color from RGB that has been chosen and it fairs less well with a spectral parsing S3D system. not that many are using the omega filters with LCD and loving it.
on xenon lamped systems we developed this on ( and sold as Panavision 3D ) there were virtually no issues with color to where we gained the approval of Disney and met DCI spec and all this wihout the use of a color procssing server ( ala Dolby) or even a LUT. we were also higher efficiency than Technicolor 3D, RealDz, Dolby and XpanD in a DCI calibrated theater, and on a matt white screen.
post #42 of 584
Hi,

I'm a new user of the LCD omega 3D kit and just want to provide some inputs. This kit is amazing. The picture quality is so clear and 3D effect is awsome. The only minor problem I experienced is the left eye brightness. On certain dark scenes, sometimes it's dark with a little bit of brightness and sometimes it's completely black. Anybody experiences this problem? My system spec is below.

Omega 3d LCD
2xPanasonic Ar100u
ATI Radeon HD 7770 (2x mini DP to HDMI passive adapter)
post #43 of 584
I have optoma hd33 , if i like to try passive 3d using this kit, what i have to do,
my optoma hd33 can be modified to output L/R signal so i can choose L image from my optoma , so i will have to buy another optoma hd 33 or it is cheaper to buy another projector but in that case i have to buy L/R Separator ? i have already white screen as i know it is worikng well with white screen no need for silver screen,
is the glasses of this kit is comfortable because from the photo it is not look so, and how much if i like to buy more glasses, and is it sold out separate?
Thanks for all of you.
post #44 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsamy View Post

I have optoma hd33 , if i like to try passive 3d using this kit, what i have to do,
my optoma hd33 can be modified to output L/R signal so i can choose L image from my optoma , so i will have to buy another optoma hd 33 or it is cheaper to buy another projector but in that case i have to buy L/R Separator ? i have already white screen as i know it is worikng well with white screen no need for silver screen,
is the glasses of this kit is comfortable because from the photo it is not look so, and how much if i like to buy more glasses, and is it sold out separate?
Thanks for all of you.
sounds lik a great idea. the hd33 is a very nice projecto.i have hears others talk about using an hd33 to do this but i hve never tried it. if you can split the signal to the two and they can each select R ad L then youve got a simple setup. all you would need i the filter kit and a way to mount the projectors and adjust them for alighment. a lot of users have used two Optoma 3Dxl boxed to split the signal. or use a dual output video card in a PC along wth a program like the Stereoscopic player to split the movie to the two projectors.
i recently got a VNS G-501 demultiplexor and i works great . HDMI or DVI in ad two hdmi out to the projector pair. the box also has screen warping/ alignmen capablity that simplifies aligment as wellas demultiplexing. i found that ican play sideby side 3D using Real plyer on a pc and the box dose th rest.
your idea sunds really good though. the glasses are ok, i would like to chnge the frames but i cannot at the moment. you can by as many extra as you want. there is a listing for 6 pairs alone fo 100 on ebay or 20 each for less than that. i have also sold packs or 25 and 50 glasses at a decent price.
post #45 of 584
So I've got a weird question, has anyone tried this with different projectors? I'm seemingly perpetually curious about 3D (but yet to be "sold" on it). My current projector is a Planar 8150, but I still have the projector it replaced (a BenQ W5000), both are 1080p DLPs, though the Planar is definitely better in a number of ways. But I'm wondering how it would work if I ran this system with a combo of Planar and BenQ?
post #46 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So I've got a weird question, has anyone tried this with different projectors? I'm seemingly perpetually curious about 3D (but yet to be "sold" on it). My current projector is a Planar 8150, but I still have the projector it replaced (a BenQ W5000), both are 1080p DLPs, though the Planar is definitely better in a number of ways. But I'm wondering how it would work if I ran this system with a combo of Planar and BenQ?

I think this could work but the placement of the projectors may be an issue. as long as the lens throw is similar and the two images can be aligned well i dont see why there would be issues. you would need a demulitplexor to split the 3D signal or use a HTPC with the right program. a set of filters and glasses and your on your way..
post #47 of 584
Yeah, I was thinking it would be "cheap" to try, until I started thinking about it and realized that I'd need the demultiplexer, and well then there's the anamorphic lens issue too.
post #48 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Yeah, I was thinking it would be "cheap" to try, until I started thinking about it and realized that I'd need the demultiplexer, and well then there's the anamorphic lens issue too.

do you have a PC you can use a dual head video card and the stereoscopic player program. why would you need an anamorphic lens ? if you have one now just dont use it for the dual setup. ?
post #49 of 584
I don't like using PCs for playback, and I've got a lens, but not two, and not using it sort of defeats the whole purpose of a CIH setup.
post #50 of 584
Thread Starter 
you would need a demultiplexor then. a pair of optoma 3DXL's and a splitter is a common setup. not having a second anamorphic lens dose complicate it to get the CIH. but investing in a dual projector passive 3D system gives the most impressive 3D. imho better than in most theaters. we will be offering a quality demultiplexor soon that is a single box and has image warp bilt in. thjis aids in aligning or for fitting the image to a curved screen. it will not be as cheap as the two 3DXL's
post #51 of 584
Thread Starter 
post #52 of 584
Hi all,

Has anybody tried Omega filters with typical LED projectors ? I think, that common dual-optic 3D LED projectors, intended for polarized glasses, should work well also with Omega filters. We just need to change polarization filters inside the projector to Omega filters. What type of the Omega filter would work better with LED source - DLP or LCD/LCOS ?

I am thinking of the following projectors:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector-blu-ray-3D-3DTV-supported/206255_436831972.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-Theater-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector/206255_429639521.html
post #53 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avlad View Post

Hi all,
Has anybody tried Omega filters with typical LED projectors ? I think, that common dual-optic 3D LED projectors, intended for polarized glasses, should work well also with Omega filters. We just need to change polarization filters inside the projector to Omega filters. What type of the Omega filter would work better with LED source - DLP or LCD/LCOS ?
I am thinking of the following projectors:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector-blu-ray-3D-3DTV-supported/206255_436831972.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Lido-3D-projection-TV-Theater-projection-TV-polarized-3D-projector/206255_429639521.html

very interesting projectors. i would say the DLP filters to start as its hard to know the spectrum of the LED system. one issue with LED illuminated projectors is the lack of full spectral output that may cause issues with a filtering system like ours, but it is a very good way to go if the LED's are chosen well.
i would love to test out one of these with my filters. if anyone can get a spectral output curve i would love to see what i can do to make this work.
post #54 of 584
Thread Starter 
Here is our latest offering with the kits. the GeoBox G-501 video processor, 3D demultiplexor with screen warping ability as well as many other functions in one box. perfect match for the Omega DD3D passive system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0OWvLBOYZM

7844329744_df7c7b4882_b.jpg

7844347882_53ec8e8242_b.jpg
post #55 of 584
Can you take filters from the omega glasses and ask your local eye glasses maker to put the filters into same frame with your perscription glasses ?
or should one mount perscription glasses into omega glasses right after the omega filters in the inside of the glasses ?
post #56 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

Can you take filters from the omega glasses and ask your local eye glasses maker to put the filters into same frame with your perscription glasses ?
or should one mount perscription glasses into omega glasses right after the omega filters in the inside of the glasses ?

the omega glasses are meant to be fit overs for eye glasses but one could take the 3d lenses out i suppose and see if they could be mated to a perscription lens, BUT there is important geometry arrangement in the existing frames that are part of the function of the lenses like the angle between the lenses needs to be near zero, or in other words the front is flat across the face plate. that is important to the correct function. there is some room for alteration and i posted some frame mods before in a post. light shielding is important as well to think about.
post #57 of 584
I love 3D but the current selection of 720p 3d projectors are too low of resolution for my tastes and all of the TRUE 1080p 3D lcd monitors have terrible crosstalk. So I am interested in doing dual 1080p DLP projectors for 3D gaming and have a few questions.

I am considering buying two projectors from the following list:

Mitsubishi HC4000
Optoma HD33
Acer H6500
ViewSonic Pro8200

Which projector would be the best for use with the Omega system? Or are there any better DLP choices in the $1,000-$1,500 price range?

Also does the kit come with a mounting setup for both projectors or do we have to build or buy that seperate? If the kit does not come with a mounting setup, what is the best way to setup two DLP projectors that dont have lens shift?

Also what software do we use for 3D gaming with AMD & Nvidia GPUs? Is Tridef DDD the only option? I have an AMD 7970 in one computer and a 680gtx in another computer.
Edited by l88bastard - 9/2/12 at 2:15am
post #58 of 584
I'd like to possible try the Omega system for computer gaming. What software could I use to send every other frame to the separate video card outputs to two different projectors?
post #59 of 584
There are tho methods for sending the pictures to a dual projector setup from a PC, from connecting the projectors directly at the back of the PC (usually, one DVI plug per projector, but Hdmi or Display Ports also works. You can plug directly or through adapters but you should avoid mixing different types of outputs or it can cause driver bugs not being able to sync the displays properly (use either dual DVI or dual Display ports with identical adapters if needed).

-The Traditional method from the professional world : (Nvidia Quadro or ATi Firepro recommended)
-The 2x1 single large surface method "Eyefinity hack" : (the method I use)

The Traditional method from the professional world :
Set your projectors as extended desktops, you absolutely must have only 2 displays active at the same time (if you use a tertiary monitor you need to disable it before starting stereo3D applications or you will get conflicts in some software)
The application you are using must be designed to support dual-projectors this way, all you need to do is to tell the application to use the dual projectors mode and it will automatically send the left eye to one of the projectors and the right eye to the other projector (usually display #1 and #2) If the left and right eye views are reversed, most applications provide a way to switch them, otherwise, you can still switch the plugs at the back of your PC.
This system is GPU agnostic, it works on both ATi and Nvidia, however it uses independent outputs which causes sync lags. The only way to avoid this is to lock the outputs using frame locking : a feature only available on professional cards like Nvidia Quadro and ATi Firepro.
You can still use consumer cards but without frame locking, I find the sync lags too much of a pain to be able to play games in this mode (nicknamed "the 1-frame lag")
For videos you can use Stereoscopic player
For games both DDD Tridef and iZ3D (rip) support it.
Some games also natively support it like Avatar the game (it's right there in the graphics menu) and Crysis 2 (has to be activated manually in the config file)

The 2x1 single large surface method "Eyefinity hack" :
I found this method while trying to avoid the 1-frame lag caused by the traditional way of doing dual-projectors.
Set your desktop as a horizontal spanned single large surface with the two displays side by side. Don't use extended desktops : Windows and DirectX must believe you have only one single giant screen. Since Windows believes you have only one screen, it will refresh both projectors as one and the projectors will be perfectly synchronized.
Then all you need to do is to provide a full screened side by side picture. In essence, this mode is very close to the side by side mode used by 3DTVs, except it's full-resolution and full aspect ratio, ie 3840x1080 for 1080p projectors).
If connecting the projectors directly to the PC, the only Graphics cards that allow this method is ATI using their Eyefinity feature. Nvidia could technically make it work but for some reason, nVidia mandates the use of triple screens to enable their surround mode so you cannot do a 2x1 single large surface desktop. In theory there should be a GPU agnostic way to make it work using Matrox Dualhead2go or Triplehead2go to create the single spanned desktop, but so far I haven't found any report of people testing it, so i do not know if it works or not.
Be extra careful to provide absolutely identical settings for both projectors, the ATi drivers are very picky about it : if it finds a single difference between the outputs it will either break V-sync or will de-synchronize them (resolution, framerate, bit depth, AND, output plug, converter, projector model). ATi claims they have fixed this problem in a recent driver update, I haven't tested it, but even if it worked It's a very sensitive thing that might break at the next driver version/ next card model. So I'll just stick to identical outputs all the way through.
For videos you can use Stereoscopic player, if your video is stored as a side by side video you can also use any 2D video player with the ability to ignore the aspect ratio and stretch the picture to full screen (example: MPC-HC)
For games DDD Tridef supports it using side by side mode, just enable the spanned desktop before launching the Tridef control panel so that Tridef detects the spanned desktop resolution
iZ3D had support in alpha stage, you had to activate it by tweaking the config files : see this page at iZ3D forums for details
Some games also natively support this mode like Trine 2, Sonic Generations (although that's an accident from the 3DTV Side by Side mode forcing 16:9 rendering aspect ratio), Trackmania Nations (FREE) (lots of bugs, hide the interface with the keypad * key), Trackmania² Canyon (still lots of menu bugs but the latest version fixes many issues so the game is playable and looks really good with the interface on)

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

Here is our latest offering with the kits. the GeoBox G-501 video processor, 3D demultiplexor with screen warping ability as well as many other functions in one box. perfect match for the Omega DD3D passive system.
Hello Motorman,
I am still looking for an answer to my critical question.
I havee been waiting for a very long time for a demultiplexor box that can do frame-packing 1080p 60Hz at full resolution. (using DisplayPort's 3D mode or Hdmi 1.4a full 3GHz bandwidth instead of the usual 1080p24 minimum spec).
The specs don't claim it but there's a DisplayPort input on it so I'm really curious.
Is the Geobox my dream box ?
Edited by BlackShark - 9/2/12 at 8:50am
post #60 of 584
That is what I was afraid of. The frame-syncing disparity between the two outputs for computer gaming sounds like a deal breaker. And $2k-$4k video cards that can do frame locking and are slower than their $500 mainstream counterparts in gaming is unreasonable. mad.gif
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