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non rainbow effect PJ wanted. Suggestions?

post #1 of 29
4/24/12 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
Hi I'm looking into getting a PJ for the first time. I've owned a DLP rear projection tv in the past and had to return it because I could see the rainbow effect all day long so getting a DLP PJ scares me. That said from what I've read I think an epson model would be what I would want to get. I am looking to mostly watch bluray movies and play games(xbox) . My budget is 1.5k-2k and I would like to get the most bang for my buck at this price range. I would like it to be 1080p w/ 3D and putting it on a 100" screen. The room I am putting it in is approx 18' long and 10'6" feet wide with a smaller space of 8'6" which I am thinking of mounting the screen in front of. It will be used mostly at night.I will attach a photo and the room layout so you have an idea where its going. I know there are tons of these threads and I have read threw a lot of posts looking for answers but i'm a noob to this game but am very excited to start shopping. I would appreciate any info or suggestions you may have. Thanks


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post #2 of 29
4/24/12 at 12:15pm
Your best bet in your price range for a 1080p 3D projector that doesn't run the risk of seeing rainbows is the 3LCD Epson 3010.

There are tons of threads about this projector here in the forums. You can also read the reviews for this projector at projectorreviews.com and projectorcentral.com
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post #3 of 29
4/24/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Your best bet in your price range for a 1080p 3D projector that doesn't run the risk of seeing rainbows is the 3LCD Epson 3010.

There are tons of threads about this projector here in the forums. You can also read the reviews for this projector at projectorreviews.com and projectorcentral.com

+1!

Very pleased 3010 owner here. I have a 14 1/2' throw to a 120" 16:9, 1.3 gain white screen and we sit about 18' from the screen. Should work great for you even with ambient light. JMHO Hope this helps.

Ed
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post #4 of 29
4/24/12 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Yea i've read up on the epsons, not sure which model to go with and I've been reading forums like crazy trying to figure out which way i want to go. Being new to all this makes it tough sledding when trying to narrow down a projector, they all have there pro's and cons. I just am hoping someone with experience with projectors could steer me in the right direction. Thanks for your input
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post #5 of 29
4/24/12 at 12:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by old corps View Post

+1!

Very pleased 3010 owner here. I have a 14 1/2' throw to a 120" 16:9, 1.3 gain white screen and we sit about 18' from the screen. Should work great for you even with ambient light. JMHO Hope this helps.

Ed

Thanks Ed. I think epson is the way i'll go. I been checking out youtube vids and pictures on here its just never the same as seeing it in person and unfortunately in my area there are no home theatre stores with projectors set up. I'll read through the epson 3010 thread and see what i can get out of it. Thanks again!
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post #6 of 29
4/24/12 at 1:04pm
Are you guys CRAZY recommending the epson 3010 for him.
Don't get me wrong, the epson 3010 is a great 3D PJ.
But the first poster says he plays xbox 360 games on it, and the 3010 has BAD, BAD lag.
If you don't want to play games on it, get it, but if you are a gamer don't get it.
Now if epson can come up with FIX for the game lag, then yeah, put it back on the SHORT LIST.
So you need something that can be 3d and gaming and BEST Bang for buck , I'll let others figure it out for you. We got lots of guys here that can offer suggestions.
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post #7 of 29
4/24/12 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Are you guys CRAZY recommending the epson 3010 for him.
Don't get me wrong, the epson 3010 is a great 3D PJ.
But the first poster says he plays xbox 360 games on it, and the 3010 has BAD, BAD lag.
If you don't want to play games on it, get it, but if you are a gamer don't get it.
Now if epson can come up with FIX for the game lag, then yeah, put it back on the SHORT LIST.
So you need something that can be 3d and gaming and BEST Bang for buck , I'll let others figure it out for you. We got lots of guys here that can offer suggestions.

There aren't any other 3D projectors in his price range that aren't single chip DLP based. So no, we aren't crazy. It's his only option.
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post #8 of 29
4/24/12 at 2:12pm
Here are you options:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

Only four. The BenQ and the Acer are DLP based and have a high of enough brightness that you're going to see rainbows during 2D viewing. I put in a max price tag of $2500 msrp because anything around that price has a street price lower than $2000. 3D is killing your choices. There just aren't many lower budget 1080p models out there yet.
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post #9 of 29
4/24/12 at 3:24pm
i'd buy an optoma hd33 from a retailer with a good return policy and try it out. i'm pretty sensitive to RBE and i do notice them sometimes on my hd33, but it's not nearly as bad as most DLPs i've seen. i'm very happy with the projector overall.

if you're a gamer, i'd avoid LCD projectors at all costs. occasional RBE is better than constant input lag any day of the week.

like i said, buy something and try it out. return it if you don't like it.
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post #10 of 29
4/24/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

There aren't any other 3D projectors in his price range that aren't single chip DLP based. So no, we aren't crazy. It's his only option.

Like I mentioned before, the epson 3010 is a great 3D projector, but it's not a Gaming PJ because of the LAG.
You didn't mention that if he got the 3010 he wouldn't be able to do xbox 360 on it.
He wrote: I am looking to mostly watch bluray movies and play games(xbox) .

I just pointed that out in my other post, that is all. If he doesn't Game, the epson 3010 is an option.
Do you GAME on your epson 3010. It has a terrible lag, compared to other PJ's that you can GAME on. Why didn't you respond to the Gaming point, since if you go back to what he wrote in FIRST POST he mentioned, 3d and xbox 360 gaming.
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post #11 of 29
4/24/12 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Like I mentioned before, the epson 3010 is a great 3D projector, but it's not a Gaming PJ because of the LAG.
You didn't mention that if he got the 3010 he wouldn't be able to do xbox 360 on it.
He wrote: I am looking to mostly watch bluray movies and play games(xbox) .

I just pointed that out in my other post, that is all. If he doesn't Game, the epson 3010 is an option.
Do you GAME on your epson 3010. It has a terrible lag, compared to other PJ's that you can GAME on. Why didn't you respond to the Gaming point, since if you go back to what he wrote in FIRST POST he mentioned, 3d and xbox 360 gaming.

Did you miss the post where I said that other than the 3010 there isn't anything in his price range besides that that isn't DLP? He states that he doesn't want to deal with rainbows and that it should be 1080p w/ 3D and putting it on a 100" screen.

It depends on whether or not he wants to deal with the lag or rainbows. A lot of people actually don't notice lag when gaming or they get used to it. For all we know his old HDTV had just as much input lag as the Epson.
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post #12 of 29
4/24/12 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Are you guys CRAZY recommending the epson 3010 for him.
Don't get me wrong, the epson 3010 is a great 3D PJ.
But the first poster says he plays xbox 360 games on it, and the 3010 has BAD, BAD lag.
If you don't want to play games on it, get it, but if you are a gamer don't get it.
Now if epson can come up with FIX for the game lag, then yeah, put it back on the SHORT LIST.
So you need something that can be 3d and gaming and BEST Bang for buck , I'll let others figure it out for you. We got lots of guys here that can offer suggestions.

Are you speaking from experience or lag numbers measured?
I ask because some 3010 owners have reported the lag is not noticeable.
The lag "might" only be an issue with specific games.
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post #13 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J3553 View Post

i'd buy an optoma hd33 from a retailer with a good return policy and try it out. i'm pretty sensitive to RBE and i do notice them sometimes on my hd33, but it's not nearly as bad as most DLPs i've seen. i'm very happy with the projector overall.

if you're a gamer, i'd avoid LCD projectors at all costs. occasional RBE is better than constant input lag any day of the week.

like i said, buy something and try it out. return it if you don't like it.

I've read reviews that said that same as you suggested about the hd33 being great even though there is some rbe it didn't happen enough to dislike it. I'll have to look into the return policy on the stores i am looking to purchase from. I haven't even looked at a dlp in about 5 yrs so maybe they fixed the rbe or at least maybe I won't notice it as much. I think I also read a review on the hd3300 saying the rbe is less noticeable. But yea i think to be safe just make sure where ever I purchase the PJ it has a good return policy.
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post #14 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:06pm
I do not own an epson 3010. So I don't speak about gaming lag from personal experience. I also didn't recommend a PJ for him.

My advice is check in the forums because I have read many posts where people reported gaming lag on the epson 3010. Look at coderguys PJ picks and look in "scientific study of lag thread in the forums here".

I guess the best advice for him is to research it, reading the reviews on amazon and in the threads here to get how much of a problem it would be. My understanding from reading the AVS threads is that the epson 3010 has a 99ms lag and other PJ that are good at Gaming have 15-30ms lag. So just research it. I guess you guys own the epson 3010 and as I said , it's a great PJ, I just have read on this site and elsewhere it was NOT a GAMER PJ. Sound fair?
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post #15 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Did you miss the post where I said that other than the 3010 there isn't anything in his price range besides that that isn't DLP? He states that he doesn't want to deal with rainbows and that it should be 1080p w/ 3D and putting it on a 100" screen.

It depends on whether or not he wants to deal with the lag or rainbows. A lot of people actually don't notice lag when gaming or they get used to it. For all we know his old HDTV had just as much input lag as the Epson.

I guess its all based on the individual.. I might be ok with lag over the rbe or vice versa. I haven't experienced lag first hand or if i have i didn't know that's what i was dealing with. The rbe on the other hand gave me headaches and i couldnt watch anything without seeing it but that was 5yrs ago on a samsung dlp tv so maybe its not as bad in projectors now a days.
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post #16 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

I do not own an epson 3010. So I don't speak about gaming lag from personal experience. I also didn't recommend a PJ for him.

My advice is check in the forums because I have read many posts where people reported gaming lag on the epson 3010. Look at coderguys PJ picks and look in "scientific study of lag thread in the forums here".

I guess the best advice for him is to research it, reading the reviews on amazon and in the threads here to get how much of a problem it would be. My understanding from reading the AVS threads is that the epson 3010 has a 99ms lag and other PJ that are good at Gaming have 15-30ms lag. So just research it. I guess you guys own the epson 3010 and as I said , it's a great PJ, I just have read on this site and elsewhere it was NOT a GAMER PJ. Sound fair?

I understand what your saying and I appreciate your info. I will continue to read the forums as the more info I have the better. Like a user earlier stated I just need to make sure I get the PJ from a place that has a good return policy.
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post #17 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneycb View Post

I guess its all based on the individual.. I might be ok with lag over the rbe or vice versa. I haven't experienced lag first hand or if i have i didn't know that's what i was dealing with. The rbe on the other hand gave me headaches and i couldnt watch anything without seeing it but that was 5yrs ago on a samsung dlp tv so maybe its not as bad in projectors now a days.

Well, that solves that problem. Bro, DLP has come along way from 5 years ago!

Hopefully, Coderguy will come in this room and offer his input. He is very sensitive to RBE and he can steer you to a PJ that will have low RBE. He has discussed it in other threads. I have the viewsonic pro8200 and I haven't noticed RBE, but it's not 3D, so I didn't recommend it for you. The pro8200 is a GAMER PJ, that is one of the reasons I bought it. But if you need 3D, others might be able to help you narrow it down.
5 years ago in TECH can make a big difference. Yeah , some new PJ's are more prone to RBE, so say away from those and find ones that people who are sensitive to RBE recommend.
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post #18 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sydneycb View Post

I guess its all based on the individual.. I might be ok with lag over the rbe or vice versa. I haven't experienced lag first hand or if i have i didn't know that's what i was dealing with. The rbe on the other hand gave me headaches and i couldnt watch anything without seeing it but that was 5yrs ago on a samsung dlp tv so maybe its not as bad in projectors now a days.

I played Skyrim (a single player game) back-to-back on a projector with almost ZERO lag (Viewsonic Pro8200 < 20ms) vs. a JVC with 80ms+ lag.

Basically, the controls feel very slightly less responsive, but it's not ALL that noticeable in a single player game. It sort of feels like there is mud on your horse and he weighs more, since when you turn there is a 1/10th of a second longer delay .... However, if you never compared the two, then it would be very hard to tell. I am not sure how it might affect a game that requires precision timing (maybe a tiny bit). Definitely the game did feel slightly smoother on the DLP, but that was partly just the smoothing of the DLP's motion more than the lag-timing.

1/10th of a second is basically nothing in MOST single player games, but you can still feel it on occassion.

In multiplayer games is where it becomes a bigger problem.
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post #19 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtaa View Post

Well, that solves that problem. Bro, DLP has come along way from 5 years ago!

Hopefully, Coderguy will come in this room and offer his input. He is very sensitive to RBE and he can steer you to a PJ that will have low RBE. He has discussed it in other threads. I have the viewsonic pro8200 and I haven't noticed RBE, but it's not 3D, so I didn't recommend it for you. The pro8200 is a GAMER PJ, that is one of the reasons I bought it. But if you need 3D, others might be able to help you narrow it down.
5 years ago in TECH can make a big difference. Yeah , some new PJ's are more prone to RBE, so say away from those and find ones that people who are sensitive to RBE recommend.

hahaha yea 5 yrs ago is a long time in tech thats for sure... Is there a 3D box you can plug into a PJ .. i thought i read something about that somewhere on here .. an adapter or something.. maybe I could entertain that as a 3D option.. I don't use 3D all that much but I would like to have the option if ever i want to watch 3D content.. just a thought
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post #20 of 29
4/24/12 at 5:57pm
What you need to remember about the 3D DLPs is how bright they are. This is going to be one of the biggest reasons you're going to see rainbows. These are especially bright because they are marketed for their 3D capabilities which will spill over into the projectors 2D side. There are plenty of places, like Best Buy, that will have these cheaper DLPs on display so you can see for yourself if the rainbows are present enough to cause you to become sick.

But like Coderguy was saying. The 3010 is a great choice and the lag isn't really too much to be concerned about and is a projector that should only be avoided by the pickiest/hardcore of gamers. (ie blaming all their deaths on lag )
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post #21 of 29
4/24/12 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I played Skyrim (a single player game) back-to-back on a projector with almost ZERO lag (Viewsonic Pro8200 < 20ms) vs. a JVC with 80ms+ lag.

Basically, the controls feel very slightly less responsive, but it's not ALL that noticeable in a single player game. It sort of feels like there is mud on your horse and he weighs more, since when you turn there is a 1/10th of a second longer delay .... However, if you never compared the two, then it would be very hard to tell. I am not sure how it might affect a game that requires precision timing (maybe a tiny bit). Definitely the game did feel slightly smoother on the DLP, but that was partly just the smoothing of the DLP's motion more than the lag-timing.

1/10th of a second is basically nothing in MOST single player games, but you can still feel it on occassion.

In multiplayer games is where it becomes a bigger problem.

Hey thanks for your reply.. I read some of your top PJ list and its quite a list hahaha . theres just so many choices and I cant figure out which way i want to go.. i play a lot of multiplayer so that changes things .. i could sacrifice good 3d quality for better overall 2d quality, at this point i could deal without 3d if it meant i can get a much better performer in 2d quality at my price budget.. and if i can get a 3d adapter or something would attach to the PJ to get me 3d i would be ok with that.. i know this won;t be my last PJ i just want to get into this with something decent then i can which it up down the road.. I've changed my tv 3 times in the last 3 yrs as i keep seeing the new models and have to get them lol
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post #22 of 29
4/25/12 at 9:02am
I don't think the swiss army knife approach works. Get a pj for movies, and get a flat screen for gaming. That's how I deal with those two.

Get a 3-chip pj to absolutely guarantee no rbe. It's possible to see rbe with any segmented color implementation and it doesn't matter how fast the color wheel is or even if it uses LED. If you're sensitive to it, you'll see it, or just as bad, it'll drive you nuts thinking you might see it. A 3-chip puts that issue to rest.
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post #23 of 29
4/25/12 at 11:36am
3-chip DLP's still cost $10,000+. If you dont want any RBE your only choice is a 3 LCD projector. And yes, LCD projectors have also come a long way in the past 5 years, so don't believe all the LCD negativity from DLP owners. LCD projectors can deliver stunning looking images.
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post #24 of 29
4/25/12 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by taffman View Post

3-chip DLP's still cost $10,000+. If you dont want any RBE your only choice is a 3 LCD projector. And yes, LCD projectors have also come a long way in the past 5 years, so don't believe all the LCD negativity from DLP owners. LCD projectors can deliver stunning looking images.

I don't think is a question LCD image quality. It's about lag with folks who are serious gamers, especially with multiplayer. If the technology adversely affects the gameplay of certain individuals, it will be shunned by them no matter how pretty the picture is.
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post #25 of 29
4/25/12 at 1:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

I don't think the swiss army knife approach works. Get a pj for movies, and get a flat screen for gaming. That's how I deal with those two.

Get a 3-chip pj to absolutely guarantee no rbe. It's possible to see rbe with any segmented color implementation and it doesn't matter how fast the color wheel is or even if it uses LED. If you're sensitive to it, you'll see it, or just as bad, it'll drive you nuts thinking you might see it. A 3-chip puts that issue to rest.

Well I currently game on a plasma and can continue to do so after I get a PJ I was just hoping i could find a PJ that would work well with both gaming and movies. I do a lot of multiplayer gaming and watch a lot of movies. My tv is 3D but rarely use the 3d I just like having the option to have 3d if I ever wanted to watch it. Decisions , decisions...I am leaning away from having to have a PJ that is 3D.. I think I can go without it if that gets me a better PJ at my price range..
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post #26 of 29
4/25/12 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

I don't think is a question LCD image quality. It's about lag with folks who are serious gamers, especially with multiplayer. If the technology adversely affects the gameplay of certain individuals, it will be shunned by them no matter how pretty the picture is.

If 3D is not required, the Epson 8350 has low lag for an LCD and is within his price range.
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post #27 of 29
4/25/12 at 8:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post

If 3D is not required, the Epson 8350 has low lag for an LCD and is within his price range.

Yes i've read some good reviews on the 8350 and i found a place that has one set up about an hr from me, going to take a drive there this weekend to see it, they have the 3010 set up as well so i'll check that out too
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post #28 of 29
4/25/12 at 9:19pm
Maybe bring your 360 to see if you can tell a difference? I'm not sure how much access you have with tinkering around with the projectors themselves. Call ahead and ask if it's okay. The 3D feature of the 3010 makes it worth the extra price and is mostly future proof.
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post #29 of 29
4/30/12 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Hi thanks for every ones input, I went with an epson 8350. I decided that 3D isnt that big a deal and with this unit there is no worries of RBE. I've hooked it up over the weekend and its pretty damn nice. I haven't bought a screen yet, I am projecting it onto a yellow wall to which i thought might look weird but it doesn't look all that bad. As far as gaming lag I haven't noticed any.. gaming, movies and tv all looked good in the room its currently set up. My room is fairly bright and it still looked decent. When its at night the quality is great. 100% happy with this so far.
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