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Which type of Can Light

post #1 of 27
4/25/12 at 7:44am
Thread Starter 
I'm planning to add 3 can lights in front of my screen. But I have a few questions:
  • What size cans are most people using in front of their screens?
  • Is one brand that is better than another?
  • What type of lamp and what wattage should I use?
  • Should I direct the lamp at the screen, or should I point it straight down?

Also, I've already dry walled the room but decided to add these after the fact. Since I've spent so much time (and money) sound proofing everything, I'm hesitant to just cut holes in the dry wall and pop these in. Does anyone have any ideas? Before it is suggested, I do not want to use track lighting, I'm going to make Cans work, but I'm just not sure how yet.
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post #2 of 27
4/25/12 at 9:54am
3 inch Utilitech recessed halogen cans (Lowe's) with 50 watt bulbs. $10 each
http://www.lowes.com/pd_16059-47842-...fle&facetInfo=

Paint the trims with spray primer and paint. Using high heat primer and paint is good insurance. But you really should have backer boxes. In these pictures the lights are in soffits inside the room so no sound leakage issures.



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post #3 of 27
4/25/12 at 10:03am
There are boxes you can buy I don't remember the website but they are cheap like $30 each that u place between the floor joists and the light inside and butt your drywall up to the mouth of it that will retain your decoupled ness.
Wow that was a jumbled mess just search "soundproof can lights" and it should pop up.
Hope this helps
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post #4 of 27
4/25/12 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your replies. I went to home depot and found these for $30 (for all 6):



I sure wish I had installed them before the dry wall went up! Guess my only choice is to create backer boxes, cut out a large rectange, install the boxes and then patch the dry wall. Unless anyone has a better idea... please have a better idea...
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post #5 of 27
4/25/12 at 12:52pm
Take up the sub-floor and put the boxes in from above. Don't laugh there are basement projects where contractors remove a 4x8 sheet of sub-floor (Under the carpet) in order to have a method of bringing supplies to the basement for a project.
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post #6 of 27
4/25/12 at 1:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Take up the sub-floor and put the boxes in from above. Don't laugh there are basement projects where contractors remove a 4x8 sheet of sub-floor (Under the carpet) in order to have a method of bringing supplies to the basement for a project.

The scary thing is I just went through the pros and cons of re-attaching my carpet in the room above vs doing more mudding/taping/sanding... I'm actually considering it. The biggest con right now is Wife Will Kill Me!
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post #7 of 27
4/25/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandak View Post

.........The biggest con right now is Wife Will Kill Me!

That could make getting the carpet back down difficult
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post #8 of 27
4/25/12 at 1:19pm
The sub floor may be glued, Just a heads up.
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post #9 of 27
4/25/12 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandak View Post

Thanks for your replies. I went to home depot and found these for $30 (for all 6):



I sure wish I had installed them before the dry wall went up! Guess my only choice is to create backer boxes, cut out a large rectange, install the boxes and then patch the dry wall. Unless anyone has a better idea... please have a better idea...

I'm installing these this week. Except I paid $13 each for mine. They didn't have the pack when I was there.

I haven't closed up my soffit yet, so I'm leaving the recommended spacing (3" for insulation, 1/2" for combustibles like wood).
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post #10 of 27
4/25/12 at 5:29pm
Hey Big, those lights are not IC-rated, so does this mean you don't need insulation in the soffit, suggest putting them in a homemade box or using some other method to keep the insulation from getting within 3 inches of the light? I'll be building my soffit, with lighting soon and have been looking at IC rated cans...definitely more expensive so this might be a good route to save some much needed $$.

Shan
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post #11 of 27
4/25/12 at 5:50pm
I like to put them in an open top light tray attached to the front of a soffit. you are correct you can not have them in contact with insulation. But for what it is worth they really don't get very hot.
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post #12 of 27
4/25/12 at 5:52pm
That's a great idea. I had not planned on a light tray at the front of the soffit, but that would also allow for rope light to glow on the ceiling. Boy, do I have a lot to learn. Everytime I come on this forum my theater plans change. lol

Thanks,

Shan
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post #13 of 27
4/25/12 at 9:25pm
I had considered putting them into the light tray in front of the soffit, too.

Do they bleed light out of the top? I don't want little specs of light leaking up to the ceiling where my rope lights are supposed to be shining.
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post #14 of 27
4/26/12 at 6:13am
No bleed, if you find bleed just put on a dab of high temp metallic duct tape.

What you see above the light tray is a red rope light in this picture from the Bacon Race.

This room is lit by a ring of those lights around the perimeter, over the screen and the rope light. No ceiling penetrations. No sconces.

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post #15 of 27
4/26/12 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

No bleed, if you find bleed just put on a dab of high temp metallic duct tape.

What you see above the light tray is a red rope light in this picture from the Bacon Race.

This room is lit by a ring of those lights around the perimeter, over the screen and the rope light. No ceiling penetrations. No sconces.


Do you get enough light with just those cans and rope, or do you wish there was more? How many cans are in there? I'm trying to decide if it is worth putting sconces on the walls, or just going with the soffit and screen lights.
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post #16 of 27
4/26/12 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

Do you get enough light with just those cans and rope, or do you wish there was more? How many cans are in there? I'm trying to decide if it is worth putting sconces on the walls, or just going with the soffit and screen lights.

This was asked and answered in Damelon's thread but you might want to ask him again. The picture you see was taken without any additional lighting or flash.

It is not light enough to do needle point sewing or open heart surgery But it is fine for a dedicated theater room. Be sure the lights at the front are on a separate circuit.
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post #17 of 27
4/26/12 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

Do you get enough light with just those cans and rope, or do you wish there was more? How many cans are in there? I'm trying to decide if it is worth putting sconces on the walls, or just going with the soffit and screen lights.

Personally, I'm a fan of having "house lights" that really light up the room (with a dark ceiling and walls you really need a lot of light) for when you want to clean or pickup stuff or any "non-sanctioned" activities (my wife is a grade school teacher and once a month she uses the floor of the theater to sort the kids' book orders) and then a set of lights for use during movie time.

In our theater we have 4 sconces with 100 watt equv. CFLs when we want to really light up the room (and it could still be brighter) and a set of can lights on a remote dimmer for use before/after movies or during intermission.

I didn't want to have to bring in lamps or other plugin lights everytime I wanted to be able to see well inside the room.

-Suntan
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post #18 of 27
4/26/12 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

This was asked and answered in Damelon's thread but you might want to ask him again. The picture you see was taken without any additional lighting or flash.

It is not light enough to do needle point sewing or open heart surgery But it is fine for a dedicated theater room. Be sure the lights at the front are on a separate circuit.

No biggie. Thought you might know of the top of your head. Will search through that thread later. I'm mostly thinking about the amount of light for cleaning, etc, since the majority of time that people are in there, it will be dark for the movies. I will have 5-6 seperate zones on a GE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Personally, I'm a fan of having "house lights" that really light up the room (with a dark ceiling and walls you really need a lot of light) for when you want to clean or pickup stuff or any "non-sanctioned" activities (my wife is a grade school teacher and once a month she uses the floor of the theater to sort the kids' book orders) and then a set of lights for use during movie time.

In our theater we have 4 sconces with 100 watt equv. CFLs when we want to really light up the room (and it could still be brighter) and a set of can lights on a remote dimmer for use before/after movies or during intermission.

I didn't want to have to bring in lamps or other plugin lights everytime I wanted to be able to see well inside the room.

-Suntan

Good points Suntan. My ceiling will be black, walls will be black and gold (Steelers/Iowa Hawkeyes), and black/dark grey carpet. Will have to keep this decision open for a bit longer...
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post #19 of 27
4/26/12 at 9:07am
Thread Starter 
After much debate, I decided to open up the ceiling in the room rather than try to come in from above. If I start messing with our formal living room, who knows where I'll stop or when I'll have it all back together.

So I'll create a 45"deep x 3.5"tall soffit in front of the screen. Here is a crude drawing. The black lines show the existing room. The red lines are the added soffit above/in front of the screen.:


Obviously 3.5"s isnt enough for the can lights, so I will have to cut a hole in the ceiling above. What I'm going to do is build three 11.75"x11.75"x8"tall boxes out of 5/8" High Density Particle board and line them with GG + 1/2" dry wall and acoustical caulk. Then I'm going to cut an 11.75" square hole in finished ceiling and recess the boxes such that they are just flush with the face of the soffit. Then I'll acoustical calk the crap out of them, add some insulation and put another layer of 1/2" drywall on the face of the sofit then install the lights.
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post #20 of 27
4/26/12 at 9:33am
Would some sort of puck light give you the same effect without all the depth?
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post #21 of 27
4/26/12 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by advertguy2 View Post

Would some sort of puck light give you the same effect without all the depth?

I considered Puck Lights but decided against them as I didn't want to have exposed wiring and/or a bulky surface mount. To hide the wiring and recess the pucks, I'd still have to make a bulk head, not 3.5 inches, but something. Also, I'd have to leave access to the inside of the bulkhead as in my area you aren't allowed to cover up the transformers for the pucks (at least not the pucks I've looked at). So if I'm going to go to all that trouble, I figured I might as well use actual cans.

Of course if anybody knows more about using pucks, I'm open to suggestions.
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post #22 of 27
4/26/12 at 1:12pm
I've never used puck lights, but if you google "line voltage puck lights" some results come up. I didn't get into the details, but it looks like they're out there. The ones on Amazon are even black in colour... Anyways, you would still need to build something, but the shallower depth would eliminate the requirement to mess up your soundproofing. Worth looking into.
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post #23 of 27
4/26/12 at 2:16pm
Thanks to the OP for asking this question. I had been wondering the same things myself and couldn't figure out the correct search terms.

As far as using Puck lights, I considered the same thing and looked into dimmable transformers. They are not expensive and could be mounted in a central location then broken out from there to the individual lights. You're only talking 12 volts for the lights, so in a lot of cases one wouldn't need a box or conduit.

I've also seen snap in, recessed puck lights. But the six pack of lights mentioned above is an excellent solution for me (at least). I'm lucky to have a generous amount of space I can reach between my basement ceiling and first floor but am limited by only a 7 foot ceiling in my HT room.
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post #24 of 27
4/26/12 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
I'm glad my questions have generated a good discussion and that others are benefiting from it.

I'll be sure to take some pictures as I move forward with this and post them here. I hope to have this done by tomorrow night or Saturday evening at the latest so stay tuned.
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post #25 of 27
4/26/12 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

My ceiling will be black, walls will be black and gold (Steelers/Iowa Hawkeyes),

Well for the tastes of the average Hawkeye fan, these should be more than adiquate...



(Sorry, Iowa State grad here )

Anyway, if you do go with sconces on the walls, be aware that you should look for ones with translucent covers that project light directly into the room, as opposed to sconces with opaque covers that work by bouncing light off the ceiling.

The type that bounce light off the ceiling work well when your ceiling is white, but you lose a massive amount of room illumination when your ceiling is painted black.

-Suntan
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post #26 of 27
4/27/12 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suntan View Post

Well for the tastes of the average Hawkeye fan, these should be more than adiquate...



(Sorry, Iowa State grad here )

Anyway, if you do go with sconces on the walls, be aware that you should look for ones with translucent covers that project light directly into the room, as opposed to sconces with opaque covers that work by bouncing light off the ceiling.

The type that bounce light off the ceiling work well when your ceiling is white, but you lose a massive amount of room illumination when your ceiling is painted black.

-Suntan

Ouch. A clone living in gopher country...seems about right.

Thanks for the tip on the sconce type. Doubt I would have thought about that.
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post #27 of 27
5/2/12 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
For those of you who are interested, here is what I came up with over the weekend:

The sound deadening boxes:


These are 11.75x11.75 (exterior dimensions) 5/8" Particle board lined with green glue and 5/8" dry wall (one layer). I then filled all of the seems with acoustical caulking.

The ceiling:


These holes were a PITA to cut. The ceiling was already up and I had no indication of where the joists were, i only knew which way they ran. My stud finder didn't like the 2 layers of 5/8" drywall w/ GG and kept giving me false positives. Eventually I just jammed a drywall saw in and sawed until i hit the joist. Then I followed it 11.75" one way, then the other... until I cut a square. I did the same for the other two. In retrospect I would have made the holes a bit bigger because I had a really hard time getting the boxes in with them fitting so tightly. I also put acoustical caulking all around the boxes.

The boxes installed + the bulk head built around them:


Here I've framed a bullkhead around the boxes and the wiring already run. The edge of the box sits flush with the frame, that way once I drywall everything will be nice and tight.


I finished drywalling too, but forgot to take a Pic. I'll take a pick tonight and post it later.
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