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Official Sharp LC-90LE745U Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] d - Page 8

post #211 of 1108
6/22/12 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

Don't worry guys...remember not that long ago Sony's 007 Lcos 70" came out with at the time was the biggest with a 12K msrp. So like everything else, what comes up must come down this will be around 4k or less in 3-4 yrs.
Also I disagree strongly you need to sit back like 15-16ft. I have 100" at 10-11 FT right now and I want more...esp if you watch BD/dvd movies with 2.35 aspect ratios with the black bars your 90" reduced quite a bit and is not that big.

i agree after Sharp ramps up the production on these they will be priced cheaper & WHEN the "Other" Jumbo Models are released prices will fall across the board on all 80 & 90" ers ,But right now the best deal is the 80" 632 hands down that display has the least issues with PQ biggrin.gif
i'll get a 90"er but not @ 10K .............. typing this on my 80" desktop in W7 smile.gif
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post #212 of 1108
6/22/12 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

i agree after Sharp ramps up the production on these they will be priced cheaper & WHEN the "Other" Jumbo Models are released prices will fall across the board on all 80 & 90" ers ,But right now the best deal is the 80" 632 hands down that display has the least issues with PQ biggrin.gif
i'll get a 90"er but not @ 10K .............. typing this on my 80" desktop in W7 smile.gif

Some would argue 844u is the best deal especially if you were able to get them for lower end of $4000 with 3d glasses like some did.

For ~$500 more 3D, 240hz, Quattron quad pixel technology, Quad Pixel Plus II and 10,000,000:1 contrast ratio may be worth the upgrade.
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post #213 of 1108
6/22/12 at 5:33pm
The 80" is a good buy, but a 90" is sweet !
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post #214 of 1108
6/22/12 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonyHome View Post

Some would argue 844u is the best deal especially if you were able to get them for lower end of $4000 with 3d glasses like some did.
For ~$500 more 3D, 240hz, Quattron quad pixel technology, Quad Pixel Plus II and 10,000,000:1 contrast ratio may be worth the upgrade.

What is 10,000:1 contrast ratio?

What is quad pixel plus II?

tongue.gif
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post #215 of 1108
6/23/12 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

What is 10,000:1 contrast ratio?
What is quad pixel plus II?
tongue.gif

Active Contrast ratio tells you the range of black to white that the display is capable of over all time. 632u has 6,000,000:1 ratio, new 90" has 8,000,000:1 ratio and 844u has 10,000,000:1 ratio.

Quad Pixel Plus II provides more precise control of the LED pixels, further reducing jagged edges and delivering smoother transitions.
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post #216 of 1108
6/23/12 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

The 80" is a good buy, but a 90" is sweet !

so does that mean you will sell them for 5k? 10 inches is only sweet when its priced reasonably !!!!!!!!!!!!! the 90 is the white elephant right now and everyone knows it
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post #217 of 1108
6/23/12 at 7:20am
For those interested Fillion on Sherbrooke street in Montreal have the 90 on display. It seem's they are the only one in Quebec to have it on display.

So I saw the 90 incher yesterday. I don't know in which picture mode it was but I can say that the picture was pretty darn good, a lot better than I expected at that size and also, to my surprise, better than the two 80" (that last comment is subjective!wink.gif). I expected to see pixels at that size but even at 6 feets close it was not an issue yet the picture looked very sharp an detailed. Colors also looked good but it was perceived contrast that impressed me the most! Tintin was playing and again the picture contrast looked very good. The picture had a lot of pop in it! Interpolation was engaged and was not too good and created a lot of image artefacts. I was unable to turn it off as the salesman could not find the remote. I would like to watch that set in a dark room to see how black it can get. In a fairly bright environment the blacks were very good but then all LED blacks look in a bright light environment.

I think that at 7k I would have bought it in a heart beat but it was 10k + all the taxes we have up here...So, I'm going to wait as I'm also curious to see how the upcoming 4k 84" LG looks like and those rumored upcoming 2nd gen (80"?) Elites...

One thing is for sure, I now want a big screen, bigger than my 65VT25!eek.gif
Edited by dhan - 6/23/12 at 8:55am
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post #218 of 1108
6/23/12 at 11:03am
What is 10,000:1 contrast ratio?

10,000,000:1 is a MEANINGLESS number meant to represent the dynamic contrast ratio. Every LCD set that can turn off all the pixels in the absence of a signal could proudly proclaim contrast ratios in the millions.
The true contrast for the big Sharp's is around 4,000:1 which is REALLY good for an LCD set without local zone dimming.
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post #219 of 1108
6/23/12 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

What is 10,000:1 contrast ratio?
10,000,000:1 is a MEANINGLESS number meant to represent the dynamic contrast ratio. Every LCD set that can turn off all the pixels in the absence of a signal could proudly proclaim contrast ratios in the millions.
The true contrast for the big Sharp's is around 4,000:1 which is REALLY good for an LCD set without local zone dimming.

I wouldn't say meaningless.

Dynamic contrast ratio is the range of light and dark scenes your display is capable of over all scenes. For example you come to a very dark scene, the backlight level could be turned down considerably from what it would be when a brightly-lit scene is displayed. This makes the dark areas of such a scene even darker than they would be with the backlight fixed at its peak level. But in bright scenes, the backlight returns to its full level, making for the usual bright whites. So higher the dynamic ratio brighter whites and darker blacks your display is capable.

Contrast ratio you are referring to is ratio of light and dark area in single scene.
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post #220 of 1108
6/24/12 at 7:25am
I wouldn't expect a drop soon - just have two things in mind: a) There is no competition - Sharp is the only player in that size, and as there is no factory in construction, they will be for the next years. b) This beast is expensive in production. To bring that in perspective - Sharp can cut out 6 panels with 70", 4 panels with 80" or 2 panels with 90" (funny enough, that 2 panels with 100" would be possible as well) - so production cost of the panel are more than three times higher (due to some drop outs in production, as there is still some failure rate).
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post #221 of 1108
6/24/12 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonyHome View Post

I wouldn't say meaningless.
Dynamic contrast ratio is the range of light and dark scenes your display is capable of over all scenes. For example you come to a very dark scene, the backlight level could be turned down considerably from what it would be when a brightly-lit scene is displayed. This makes the dark areas of such a scene even darker than they would be with the backlight fixed at its peak level. But in bright scenes, the backlight returns to its full level, making for the usual bright whites. So higher the dynamic ratio brighter whites and darker blacks your display is capable.
Contrast ratio you are referring to is ratio of light and dark area in single scene.
I didn't say dynamic contrast was meaningless (it's not) but that the ratios in the millions are meaningless. My Epson 1080UB projector had a dynamic rating of 50,000:1 which was superb and fairly accurate. There is also a downside to dynamic lighting. When the screen is largely dark but has a small amount of brightness somewhere (say a car driving down a dark road with headlights on), the dynamic lighting tends to reduce the impact of the bright lights considerably. Now, with my 80-632U (dynamic contrast turned OFF), when there is a dark scene but some bright highlights in there somewhere, that picture really pops........and that is impressive!!
Local zone dimming, of course, works around that problem and can give you the best of both worlds. I have yet to see dynamic contrast implemented really well on an LCD set so far (local zone dimming excluded). I have it turned off on my set and find that with Sharp's great black floor level, I don't remotely need it. A little ambient light also goes a long way to subjectively increase the apparent contrast ratio.
Edited by billdag - 6/24/12 at 12:35pm
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post #222 of 1108
6/25/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreaux View Post

I would think the first step for Sharp on the Elite line would be to announce an 80 inch Elite. I sure hope they do.
I may drive over to Manassas and see the 90 inch.

The BB at Bailey's Crossroads in Falls Church has it on display.
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post #223 of 1108
6/25/12 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzook View Post

so does that mean you will sell them for 5k? 10 inches is only sweet when its priced reasonably !!!!!!!!!!!!! the 90 is the white elephant right now and everyone knows it

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. It is sweet but 2x the price for only 10" more...
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post #224 of 1108
6/25/12 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aorbeta11 View Post

The BB at Bailey's Crossroads in Falls Church has it on display.
\
saw it at BB this weekend, was not that impressed. Not worth close to $6k more than what I paid for the 80" 844
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post #225 of 1108
6/25/12 at 5:32pm
As a retailer in completely different industry I wouldn't be surprised if BB pays within 5% of, say, Cleveland Plasma. Big companies such as Sharp have to be careful due to FTC laws which require them to offer the same pricing structure to everyone regardless if the vendor is 100% not able to buy at the higher levels which grant automatic price breaks. It was interesting to me that about a decade ago I received, by error, about four or five invoices for Academy Sports for Wolverine Boot Company merchandise. Since I carried several of the same SKUs (stock keeping units, i.e., styles) I naturally had to compare the price Wolverine World Wide was selling to Academy versus my price. The difference was about $4 per pair which was about 5%. The Academy invoice was due in 60 days at the net price, whereas if I let the salesman enter my order (instead of calling it in direct to Wolverine's headquarters) I would get 80-days and 3% off if I paid inside of 80-days. That made the difference only about 2%. Really, this surprised me, but I've since learned where there is room for play and it is hard for the FTC to nail down. That is "dealer promotional allowances" which are implemented by the territory manager out of a regional advertising budget. If I had to guess Sharp doesn't give Cleveland Plasma rebates, merchandise credit, or even free goods to help defray the cost of promotion of Sharp products, but I would bet, if the truth be known, BB gets a generous benefit package that is aimed at not just in-store promotion, but shoring up the actual bottom-line for Sharp products. These things are usually far from transparent and hard for outside parties to stitch together into anything that can be used in court against them. Now, these things can come out and make criminal cases sometimes. Back in the "Just For Feet" days when that chain crumbled it was revealed one of the major sports footwear vendors was manipulating the assets by granting ficticious credits which were counted, incorrectly since they weren't actually real, as assets in order to make the balance sheet appear much better. This came out and people were indicted and there were convictions. This was on the rare side as usually large respectable vendors do not engage in outright fraudulent documents, but it shows that no matter how respectable the company may appear there are lots of things going on behind the scenes that only involve large retailers. Things normally that never are uncovered in the light of day. At the end of the day the big lumbering BB likely eats up so much of the margin they gain that the smaller fleet-footed retailer can still compete in price and actually win due to more personalized service. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that many times powerful vendors ration their best products...Nike wouldn't let my account receive Air Jordans until the time so few people wanted them that they actually were no longer consistently selling at full retail...Suddenly, I could get Air Jordans - all I wanted even. Ever wonder why independent Apple retailers absolutley only advertise all Apple merchandise at exactly the same price as every other retail channel? In fact, most Apple dealers will not even discount when you have cash in hand waving it in their face. The reason is they only get so many and the supply can be curtailed, or shut off completely, at any time if the territorial management desire. Dealers have so few rights and what rights they do have they must take a cost-prohibitive chance of going to court to defend. Goods have to be such commodities as to be almost worthless since the market can be flooded with them before the consumer gets true pricing based on absolutely no price fixing. Remember what happened to GM & Chrysler? The goverment made sure to eliminate the glut of product and went further to eliminate the competition of dealerships. Sorry to drone on but this pricing stuff cranks my boat. The days of the independent being able to procure the most wanted products in any market are practically over. Now, and even more in the future, only the large tightly regulated pricing companies will be able to offer you a Tory Burch purse, a pair of Oakley sunglasses, an Automobile of any make, or a much awaited piece of home entertainment nirvana like a 90"+ HDTV. The manufacturers have the retailers sewn up and it seems to get worse and cover more and more products/industries every year. I'm done, thankfully.
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post #226 of 1108
6/25/12 at 5:41pm
Its a fact of life, BB is way more than 5%. I won't get into specifics but it is..like any supply chain, quantity discounts etc etc etc come into play. What cp has that Bob does not, no retail presence, huge staff, weekly advertising etc. Sharp just doesn't get placement in the.stores for free or in their ads you know. There is a whole set of financial at play here. OK so back to our local news and sorry for talking price again (sort of)
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post #227 of 1108
6/25/12 at 7:31pm
I went back to the store today with my brother and a bunch of blu-ray demo disks to audition the 90"...

I was able to play with the remote this time around and with the help of my Disney WOW disc I did a quick calibration of the 90 in Movie mode.

My brother and I agreed that the 90" has a better overall picture than the two 80" beside it and the salesman agreed. The picture had a "veloute" look to it with none of the graininess I sometimes see on the two 80" especially in the red areas of the picture yet it was very detailed and had very good sharpness.

Colors looked generaly good but skin tones were plagged with a very strong yellow cast in many of the movie scenes I used which is not present on my VT25 or my other panny plasma in the living room. The yellow cast was present on all color temps and I was not able to get rid of it using the color management menu (saturation, tint, etc for 6 colors) even with extreme slider settings. This menu seemed to have very little effect on how the picture looked. There seems to be a color decoding issue similar to the one I had with 72 Toshiba RPTV. But I'm no calibrator and maybe a guy like Chad B would be able to fix this. When I switched to game mode the yellow cast disapeared but overall picture looked dull and washed out. I didn't have time to tweak that game mode to see how good it could get as the store was closing and I also didn't have time to try other picture modes.

Perceived contrast was good but not has good as mentioned in my previous post. Full screen blacks had a bit of a blue tint into them and where nowhere near the blacks produced by the Elite just beside it. So while some scenes had good contrast, others lacked the punch I get on my VT25 on the same scenes. Boosting the contrast helped a little but at the expense of clipping whites resulting in a loss of details in white areas. Dark scenes were not as black as I would have wanted them to be even in fairly bright light. Maybe a lower backlight setting in a low light environment could've helped a little to make those blacks appear more dark.

Frame interpolation (Cinema mode) had a 10 step gradation which helped panning smoothness adjustment in relation to SOE. I prefer interpolation off but it's interresting to be able to smoothen the movement for those who like it without introducing a too strong SOE effet and also with a little less artefacts on lower settings.

So I guess I'm really going to have to wait for a 80" Elite but boy do I wish I could get my hand on a 90" with local dimming and good color decoding cause that 90" screen is really a perfect size for an immersive cinema feel.

Looking forward to read some expert (Chad B?) review of a calibrated 90 cause despite the things that I don't like in it that big screen impressed me (and my bro) a lot!eek.gif
Edited by dhan - 6/25/12 at 11:06pm
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post #228 of 1108
6/25/12 at 7:42pm
Thanks.for the good review!!!
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post #229 of 1108
6/26/12 at 10:23am
Someone has seen one at last! I went looking on Saturday and they weren't available in my area yet.
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post #230 of 1108
6/26/12 at 4:46pm
Sorry, wrong thread. Post removed.
Edited by vinhsynd - 6/26/12 at 9:52pm
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post #231 of 1108
6/26/12 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdchrgrboy View Post

\
saw it at BB this weekend, was not that impressed. Not worth close to $6k more than what I paid for the 80" 844

Agreed, watched one over the weekend at a BB/Mag location and I found the image to be just OK, it was very grainy unless the view distance was 'way' back (in this particular case out of the demo room that the display was in).

I know people will buy it simply due to the real estate and that they can have 0% interest for 3 years from BB (CapOne) but seriously make sure you have substantial view distance.

I was waiting to see if this would possibly be my next step and leave front projection but after seeing it I have to honestly say I would not spend the $10k. wink.gif

Jason
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post #232 of 1108
6/26/12 at 8:37pm
I came across this article today and found it quite interesting. It says that the 90" set will be manufactured in Japan. My 80-632U comes from Mexico. Not sure but I would guess that the 80-844U is also made in Mexico (can someone confirm?). So - except for a slight increase in potential shipping damage I would say that this is a good thing and hopefully the majority of sets will have no defects.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nb20120622a3.html#.T-p-QvWJ6mA
Also noteworthy was that according to the article, Sharp owns 70% of the big TV market (60"+)
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post #233 of 1108
6/26/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhan View Post

Colors looked generaly good but skin tones were plagged with a very strong yellow cast in many of the movie scenes I used which is not present on my VT25 or my other panny plasma in the living room

All of my TVs have yellow cast in movie mode. I never use that mode because of that
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post #234 of 1108
6/26/12 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioFileZ View Post

As a retailer in completely different industry I wouldn't be surprised if BB pays within 5% of, say, Cleveland Plasma. Big companies such as Sharp have to be careful due to FTC laws which require them to offer the same pricing structure to everyone regardless if the vendor is 100% not able to buy at the higher levels which grant automatic price breaks. It was interesting to me that about a decade ago I received, by error, about four or five invoices for Academy Sports for Wolverine Boot Company merchandise. Since I carried several of the same SKUs (stock keeping units, i.e., styles) I naturally had to compare the price Wolverine World Wide was selling to Academy versus my price. The difference was about $4 per pair which was about 5%. The Academy invoice was due in 60 days at the net price, whereas if I let the salesman enter my order (instead of calling it in direct to Wolverine's headquarters) I would get 80-days and 3% off if I paid inside of 80-days. That made the difference only about 2%. Really, this surprised me, but I've since learned where there is room for play and it is hard for the FTC to nail down. That is "dealer promotional allowances" which are implemented by the territory manager out of a regional advertising budget. If I had to guess Sharp doesn't give Cleveland Plasma rebates, merchandise credit, or even free goods to help defray the cost of promotion of Sharp products, but I would bet, if the truth be known, BB gets a generous benefit package that is aimed at not just in-store promotion, but shoring up the actual bottom-line for Sharp products. These things are usually far from transparent and hard for outside parties to stitch together into anything that can be used in court against them. Now, these things can come out and make criminal cases sometimes. Back in the "Just For Feet" days when that chain crumbled it was revealed one of the major sports footwear vendors was manipulating the assets by granting ficticious credits which were counted, incorrectly since they weren't actually real, as assets in order to make the balance sheet appear much better. This came out and people were indicted and there were convictions. This was on the rare side as usually large respectable vendors do not engage in outright fraudulent documents, but it shows that no matter how respectable the company may appear there are lots of things going on behind the scenes that only involve large retailers. Things normally that never are uncovered in the light of day. At the end of the day the big lumbering BB likely eats up so much of the margin they gain that the smaller fleet-footed retailer can still compete in price and actually win due to more personalized service. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that many times powerful vendors ration their best products...Nike wouldn't let my account receive Air Jordans until the time so few people wanted them that they actually were no longer consistently selling at full retail...Suddenly, I could get Air Jordans - all I wanted even. Ever wonder why independent Apple retailers absolutley only advertise all Apple merchandise at exactly the same price as every other retail channel? In fact, most Apple dealers will not even discount when you have cash in hand waving it in their face. The reason is they only get so many and the supply can be curtailed, or shut off completely, at any time if the territorial management desire. Dealers have so few rights and what rights they do have they must take a cost-prohibitive chance of going to court to defend. Goods have to be such commodities as to be almost worthless since the market can be flooded with them before the consumer gets true pricing based on absolutely no price fixing. Remember what happened to GM & Chrysler? The goverment made sure to eliminate the glut of product and went further to eliminate the competition of dealerships. Sorry to drone on but this pricing stuff cranks my boat. The days of the independent being able to procure the most wanted products in any market are practically over. Now, and even more in the future, only the large tightly regulated pricing companies will be able to offer you a Tory Burch purse, a pair of Oakley sunglasses, an Automobile of any make, or a much awaited piece of home entertainment nirvana like a 90"+ HDTV. The manufacturers have the retailers sewn up and it seems to get worse and cover more and more products/industries every year. I'm done, thankfully.

Very interesting.
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post #235 of 1108
6/27/12 at 12:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

I came across this article today and found it quite interesting. It says that the 90" set will be manufactured in Japan. My 80-632U comes from Mexico. Not sure but I would guess that the 80-844U is also made in Mexico (can someone confirm?). So - except for a slight increase in potential shipping damage I would say that this is a good thing and hopefully the majority of sets will have no defects.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nb20120622a3.html#.T-p-QvWJ6mA
Also noteworthy was that according to the article, Sharp owns 70% of the big TV market (60"+)
the displays for North America are assembled in Mexico , the LCD panels are all made in Japan ( the 10G panels are all made in the same plant ) my 632 80" was assembled in Mexico & the LCD panel was made in Japan just as yours was .
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post #236 of 1108
6/27/12 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NO1B4ME View Post

LOL, I was thinking the same thing. It is sweet but 2x the price for only 10" more...
However, you can go back ten years and if you examined the largest panels with ltd availability this is actually typical - that extra size has ALWAYS been at such a premium - this is not new it's following the pattern for ten years now with the largest panels - often that extra screen reality has retailed for about $500 - $1K per inch in the past.

The good news is that yesteryears 60" that retailed for over $10K and at one time $20K+ is now less than $2K and a 70" in several variations below $3K when it wasn't long ago it was $10K>. A 65" Sharp when it debuted originally when it was the largest LCD was MSRP'd at $15-$20K about 6 yrs ago and the 90" will eventually follow the same pattern as long as Sharp can make a profit to keep this game going for us.

When Sharp had the largest LCD at 45" about 8-9 yrs ago it MSRP'd for $7500 and you can see a timeline evolving to a panel four times the size for a little more and with a PQ, Internet features, social networking, streaming that would blow away that original LCD that had Clayface issues.

My Goal is to get an 80" Elite if it becomes available this fall and a refined version of the current Elite (I hope).
Edited by westa6969 - 6/27/12 at 8:43am
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post #237 of 1108
6/27/12 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

the displays for North America are assembled in Mexico , the LCD panels are all made in Japan ( the 10G panels are all made in the same plant ) my 632 80" was assembled in Mexico & the LCD panel was made in Japan just as yours was .
Thanks Fastslappy. Yes, I was aware of that but thought that maybe some of the clouding issues were the result of less than perfect assembly. Having been an avid consumer for over 40 Yrs. I have come to trust most items that are completely manufactured in Japan. Rarely have had any problems with them.
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post #238 of 1108
6/27/12 at 1:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billdag View Post

Thanks Fastslappy. Yes, I was aware of that but thought that maybe some of the clouding issues were the result of less than perfect assembly. Having been an avid consumer for over 40 Yrs. I have come to trust most items that are completely manufactured in Japan. Rarely have had any problems with them.
the shipping is the reason for the Mexico assembly it's far cheaper &/Or less damage risk for panels to ship the panels to Mexico to then be assembled into finished Displays , actually this saves a a lot of over head on shipping, to send just parts & then have the assembly close to the distribution areas , look at the manufacturing model for cars ,Toyota's,Honda's & BMW's are all assembled here in the US & Mexico while the parts are made way offshore .
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post #239 of 1108
6/27/12 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

it was very grainy unless the view distance was 'way' back (in this particular case out of the demo room that the display was in).

I had a different experience, graininess was not an issue with all the m2ts clips (ripped from blu-ray disks) that I watched on the 90 even at just 6 feet away.confused.gif The LC-90LE745U I watched was in movie mode (with some tweaks), some other video modes like Dynamic looked just plain horrendous (and very grainy).
Edited by dhan - 6/27/12 at 4:00pm
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post #240 of 1108
6/27/12 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

My Goal is to get an 80" Elite if it becomes available this fall and a refined version of the current Elite (I hope).

Now that I've seen the 90 this has become my goal too!smile.gif

A 90 Elite would be Nirvana!eek.gif but probably priced too high for my wallet.frown.gif
Edited by dhan - 6/27/12 at 4:05pm
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Official Sharp LC-90LE745U Discussion Thread [No Price Talk] d