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Denon 1712, the right purchase?

post #1 of 16
4/27/12 at 7:19pm
Thread Starter 
I have purchased a denon 1712 from amazon but it hasn't shipped yet. I was just talking to a friend of mine and I want to make sure I made the right purchase.

I have Klipsch VF-36 speakers and my main concern is that they aren't getting enough power. RMS is 150w but the tweeters are extremely efficient.

I don't know how to get higher wattage then this 1712 without spending $1k or more on a reciever and thats a waste when I only spent $400 on the pair of towers.

What options would I really have available? Is bridging a possibility? a power amplifier down the road? What about ohms?

Is there any way to get more power to these speakers under $500? or to future proof myself?
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post #2 of 16
4/27/12 at 7:31pm
You'll be just fine. Don't worry about the numbers until you at least know what they mean. Klipsch are very efficient speakers (not just the tweeter, but rather the speaker as a whole), and from a quick google these are no exception apparently (97.5 db, without spec but assuming 1W). Just because they can handle 150w continuous doesn't mean you need to feed them that much. They'll get plenty loud with that AVR. If you're going to turn the bass to 11 and have no sub, then maybe you need to think about alternatives...
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post #3 of 16
4/27/12 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 
ok thanks, I knew the tweeters were very efficient but with the 150w rms and 600w peak I figured the woofers were very in-efficient.

My friend just keeps telling me all this stuff about how i'm going to underpower my speakers and blow them, and I've posted here to find out clipping is the real enemy. So my assumption is that if I don't push my reciever to far then my speakers won't get distortion.

Also my concern isn't total volume but quality at lower levels (occasionaly higher volumes but not often)
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post #4 of 16
4/27/12 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

ok thanks, I knew the tweeters were very efficient but with the 150w rms and 600w peak I figured the woofers were very in-efficient.

My friend just keeps telling me all this stuff about how i'm going to underpower my speakers and blow them, and I've posted here to find out clipping is the real enemy. So my assumption is that if I don't push my reciever to far then my speakers won't get distortion.

Also my concern isn't total volume but quality at lower levels (occasionaly higher volumes but not often)

150W is the maximum amount of continuous power your speaker can take. 600W is the peak power (the definition of "peak" is really vague and varies heavily between manufacturers) your speaker can take. It does not mean you need that big of an amplifier.

A speaker's sensitivity is the number you should watch out for to determine a speaker's efficiency. With a sensitivity of 97.5dB/watt, you'll be blowing out your eardrums before the speakers use 1W of power.

I used to have a 1712 driving some speakers about 45 times less efficient than yours (no joke, they were 81dB/watt sensitivity), and it drove them to very loud levels without any problems.
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post #5 of 16
4/27/12 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

ok thanks, I knew the tweeters were very efficient but with the 150w rms and 600w peak I figured the woofers were very in-efficient.

My friend just keeps telling me all this stuff about how i'm going to underpower my speakers and blow them, and I've posted here to find out clipping is the real enemy. So my assumption is that if I don't push my reciever to far then my speakers won't get distortion.

Also my concern isn't total volume but quality at lower levels (occasionaly higher volumes but not often)

So your idea to interpret the rms and peak as separate for each driver? Where'd you get that? Your own or your friend

Clipping isn't good but you're not likely going to clip the amp with those speakers without painful spl imho.

If you're concerned with lower levels don't be...it's not like your speakers stop operating unless you've got a minimum amount of power on tap (97.5 is quite loud by the way so with 1W you're doing just fine). Consider it takes about double the wattage to raise your spl by 3db, too...
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post #6 of 16
4/27/12 at 10:42pm
Thread Starter 
I was personally assuming that the sensitivity was only for the tweeters since they only take a few watts to run. I thought the woofers all together were far less sensitive.
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post #7 of 16
4/28/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

I have purchased a denon 1712 from amazon but it hasn't shipped yet. I was just talking to a friend of mine and I want to make sure I made the right purchase.

I have Klipsch VF-36 speakers and my main concern is that they aren't getting enough power. RMS is 150w but the tweeters are extremely efficient.

I don't know how to get higher wattage then this 1712 without spending $1k or more on a reciever and thats a waste when I only spent $400 on the pair of towers.

What options would I really have available? Is bridging a possibility? a power amplifier down the road? What about ohms?

Is there any way to get more power to these speakers under $500? or to future proof myself?

efficiency is the entire speaker not just the tweeter. It's a very efficient speaker meaning you don't need much power at all.

150 watts is the most you could put into it of clean power, it has nothing to do with it's efficiency, it could be 1000 watts but still be very efficient. Considering it's efficiency you would never want to put in that much power since it would be soooo loud. With a speaker that efficient you don't need much power at all and you will be using less than a watt during most listening.
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post #8 of 16
4/28/12 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

ok thanks, I knew the tweeters were very efficient but with the 150w rms and 600w peak I figured the woofers were very in-efficient.

My friend just keeps telling me all this stuff about how i'm going to underpower my speakers and blow them, and I've posted here to find out clipping is the real enemy. So my assumption is that if I don't push my reciever to far then my speakers won't get distortion.

Also my concern isn't total volume but quality at lower levels (occasionaly higher volumes but not often)

Under powering is only a problem if you push your amp to clipping. You would have this same problem no matter how strong the amp was.

You will most likely only be using a couple watts if that even at very high volume. You will be listening using less than 1 watt most of the time even when it is loud.
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post #9 of 16
4/28/12 at 8:09am
And yes stick with the 1712 use Audyssey MultEQ XT and you should get some great sound.
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post #10 of 16
4/28/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

I was personally assuming that the sensitivity was only for the tweeters since they only take a few watts to run. I thought the woofers all together were far less sensitive.

Are you planning on doing something like running the speakers bi-amped? It really doesn't matter what the drivers do on their own unless you separate them. The larger driver does likely need more power, nature of size.
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post #11 of 16
4/28/12 at 10:17pm
Thread Starter 
I was going to make a post about bi-amping, my speakers are capable of it and 2 channels on the 1712 are "assignable". I think that means what 7.1 config you want or the option for 5.1 and another zone, but if it's possible to put those two channels as front left and right I might bi-amp.

If bi-amping is possible, how would multiEQ handle that? would it test the tweet and the woofer on each speaker seperate? I like that idea if possible because it sounds like an easier way to get the proper sound out of my towers.
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post #12 of 16
4/29/12 at 1:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

I was going to make a post about bi-amping, my speakers are capable of it and 2 channels on the 1712 are "assignable". I think that means what 7.1 config you want or the option for 5.1 and another zone, but if it's possible to put those two channels as front left and right I might bi-amp.

If bi-amping is possible, how would multiEQ handle that? would it test the tweet and the woofer on each speaker seperate? I like that idea if possible because it sounds like an easier way to get the proper sound out of my towers.

Oh my AVR shipped today, should be here thursday, took them a few days to get it out the door ><

Don't bi-amp, at least that way. If you are going to bi-amp a speaker you want to get an active crossover, which is a crossover that comes before the amplifiers. So don't worry about it.

So just hook up your speakers to the front left and right binding posts.
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post #13 of 16
4/29/12 at 3:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

I was going to make a post about bi-amping, my speakers are capable of it and 2 channels on the 1712 are "assignable". I think that means what 7.1 config you want or the option for 5.1 and another zone, but if it's possible to put those two channels as front left and right I might bi-amp.

If bi-amping is possible, how would multiEQ handle that? would it test the tweet and the woofer on each speaker seperate? I like that idea if possible because it sounds like an easier way to get the proper sound out of my towers.

Oh my AVR shipped today, should be here thursday, took them a few days to get it out the door ><

As darkhorror notes, using an AVR to "passive" bi-amp is a waste of time. A full range signal is passed to each of the separate posts on the speaker just as it would when single wiring so there is no benefit in either additional power or audio fidelity.
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post #14 of 16
4/29/12 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

ok thanks, I knew the tweeters were very efficient but with the 150w rms and 600w peak I figured the woofers were very in-efficient.

My friend just keeps telling me all this stuff about how i'm going to underpower my speakers and blow them, and I've posted here to find out clipping is the real enemy. So my assumption is that if I don't push my reciever to far then my speakers won't get distortion.

Also my concern isn't total volume but quality at lower levels (occasionaly higher volumes but not often)

the person who designed the xover for your speakers took care of the "individual drivers" for you... don't even think about that...

your friend, while he has a point in certain circumstances, is causing you needless worry for your circumstance... see paragraph 1...

at "lower levels", the amplifier is essentially irrelevant when it comes to "contributing to sound quality"*... it is all about your speakers and your room...

don't bi-amp, it doesn't work the way you think it does...

* if someone tries to tell you differently, ask for controlled test results...
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post #15 of 16
4/29/12 at 6:34pm
Thread Starter 
awsome thanks for all the constructive input, it has helped me a ton.

The reciever will come in on thursday with any luck so i'll be making another post on best way to set up my system.

ex: I was unaware that my sub was set to high (over 40) and it was overlapping my speakers and ruining my mids, that has greatly improved since then and I'd like to make sure I have no mistakes like that with the new AVR
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post #16 of 16
4/29/12 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petriebird View Post

awsome thanks for all the constructive input, it has helped me a ton.

The reciever will come in on thursday with any luck so i'll be making another post on best way to set up my system.

ex: I was unaware that my sub was set to high (over 40) and it was overlapping my speakers and ruining my mids, that has greatly improved since then and I'd like to make sure I have no mistakes like that with the new AVR

Like the others said about "bi-amping" (kinda thought you might have that in mind). Just run Audyssey and make tweaks from there. There's a guide to using Audyssey here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=14456895
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