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A still camera with better image stabiilzation than the Panasonic TM900

post #1 of 22
4/28/12 at 7:38pm
Thread Starter 
I did very brief hand held video tests today comparing my new Olympus OM-D still camera with my TM900 camcorder. As you can see, the 5 axis image stablization system of the Olympus eliminated jerky movements that are apparent in the TM900 video. The video of the OM-D was also much brighter and more vividly colorful.

Panasonic TM900:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5snMGtyMuZs

Olympus OM-D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev4YdQuTd3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iarvjzc2Ufk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC7eeF5LcsY
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post #2 of 22
4/29/12 at 3:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

I did very brief hand held video tests today comparing my new Olympus OM-D still camera with my TM900 camcorder. As you can see, the 5 axis image stablization system of the Olympus eliminated jerky movements that are apparent in the TM900 video. The video of the OM-D was also much brighter and more vividly colorful.

Panasonic TM900:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5snMGtyMuZs

Olympus OM-D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev4YdQuTd3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iarvjzc2Ufk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC7eeF5LcsY

Nice. I would want one if it had 1080p output, recorded for more than 30 minutes of continuous video, and had a standard 3.5mm external mic jack (or even the non-standard, but easily adaptable, 2.5mm Panasonic jack).

It's a great still camera, though.
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post #3 of 22
4/29/12 at 6:35am
I would think a still camera that would be good for what you want would be the Sony NEX-5N. The stills look amazing and it does 1080/60p
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post #4 of 22
4/29/12 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

I did very brief hand held video tests today comparing my new Olympus OM-D still camera with my TM900 camcorder. As you can see, the 5 axis image stablization system of the Olympus eliminated jerky movements that are apparent in the TM900 video. The video of the OM-D was also much brighter and more vividly colorful.

Panasonic TM900:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5snMGtyMuZs

Olympus OM-D:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev4YdQuTd3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iarvjzc2Ufk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC7eeF5LcsY

Looks to me on my display like the OM-D is clipping peak whites. Like contrast is set too high thus it looks brighter. Also the colors look too bright to me in the flower shot. The TM900 looks more natural to me.
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post #5 of 22
4/29/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Looks to me on my display like the OM-D is clipping peak whites. Like contrast is set too high thus it looks brighter. Also the colors look too bright to me in the flower shot. The TM900 looks more natural to me.

Agreed.
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post #6 of 22
4/29/12 at 8:20am
I'd like to see a comparison like that with one of the new Sony "Balanced Optical Steady Shot" cameras where, in addition to electronic stabilization, the optics are stabilized. The lens actually moves. A video was done with a pair of camcorders on a wiggle platform as a product demo. It looks like it could be good.

Watch the video screens and viewfinders:

Sony Balanced Optical Steady Shot (Ignore the first 12 seconds.)

Maybe I need to go to the Sony store!
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post #7 of 22
4/29/12 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

I'd like to see a comparison like that with one of the new Sony "Balanced Optical Steady Shot" cameras where, in addition to electronic stabilization, the optics are stabilized. The lens actually moves. A video was done with a pair of camcorders on a wiggle platform as a product demo. It looks like it could be good.

Watch the video screens and viewfinders:

Sony Balanced Optical Steady Shot (Ignore the first 12 seconds.)

Maybe I need to go to the Sony store!

The new Panasonic video cameras have 5 axis ois too!
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post #8 of 22
4/29/12 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

The new Panasonic video cameras have 5 axis ois too!

Isn't that electronic stabilization? In the product videos I've seen, the Sony lens moves mechanically like it is gyro stabilized. I'm not promoting it, but it seems to be such a major departure from the established methods of stabilization that I am fascinated. There was an Italian with a European model shooting street shots while walking in Venice who posted here. The shots were rock steady.

Bill
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post #9 of 22
4/29/12 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

I'd like to see a comparison like that with one of the new Sony "Balanced Optical Steady Shot" cameras where, in addition to electronic stabilization, the optics are stabilized. The lens actually moves. A video was done with a pair of camcorders on a wiggle platform as a product demo. It looks like it could be good.

Watch the video screens and viewfinders:

Sony Balanced Optical Steady Shot (Ignore the first 12 seconds.)

Maybe I need to go to the Sony store!

Wow, impressive with Balanced Optical Steady Shot. This makes me want to trade in my XR550 for the CX7xx series.
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post #10 of 22
4/29/12 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post

Wow, impressive with Balanced Optical Steady Shot. This makes me want to trade in my XR550 for the CX7xx series.

I've not found reviews from real users yet. It may look better in demonstrations than real life use.

Bill
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post #11 of 22
4/29/12 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Isn't that electronic stabilization? In the product videos I've seen, the Sony lens moves mechanically like it is gyro stabilized. I'm not promoting it, but it seems to be such a major departure from the established methods of stabilization that I am fascinated. There was an Italian with a European model shooting street shots while walking in Venice who posted here. The shots were rock steady.

Bill

The Panasonic camcorders use both optical and electronic IS. If you turn off hybrid its optical only and works quite well too. The Sony does the same thing. Notice in the two videos that the stable video looks zoomed in. It crops the image and that is the electronic portion of the IS. The panny lens that moves is internal so you don't see it moving.

There was a YouTube video of the new Panasonic camcorders that looks just like the Sony demo.

Ron
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post #12 of 22
4/29/12 at 6:31pm
Don't get me wrong the new Sony might be even better than the 2012 Panasonic cameras with 5 axis IS. Would really have to test them side by side. I am still amazed by my TM90 with its 4 axis hybrid IS. I took some video while in a car and people always ask me how I made it look so smooth. I had one shot where my wife hit a bump in the road and I hit the roof of the car with my camcorder hand. You can hear me say damn that isn't going to look good on the video and I can't really tell on the video. Its still very smooth.
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post #13 of 22
4/29/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I would think a still camera that would be good for what you want would be the Sony NEX-5N. The stills look amazing and it does 1080/60p


Thanks, Steve. Sadly, that's another absolutely fantastic still camera that doesn't meet my needs for video. It has no standard mic jack and it stops recording after 30 minutes, assuming no overheating.

Best,

Bill
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post #14 of 22
4/30/12 at 6:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

Thanks, Steve. Sadly, that's another absolutely fantastic still camera that doesn't meet my needs for video. It has no standard mic jack and it stops recording after 30 minutes, assuming no overheating.

Best,

Bill


Yeah it's more of a semi-pocketable still camera that does good video rather than a video camera that does stills.
I wasn't aware that it didn't have a mic input, but I think it is Sony proprietary, like so many things are today.
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post #15 of 22
4/30/12 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Looks to me on my display like the OM-D is clipping peak whites. Like contrast is set too high thus it looks brighter. Also the colors look too bright to me in the flower shot. The TM900 looks more natural to me.

I am more familiar with the OM-D now and was able to set the contrast lower. The OM-D video now looks gorgeous to me (even though it's only 1080i) - brighter and with alot more "pop" than the relatively dull and bland Panasonic camcorder video. And the OM-D is the only still camera that can shoot hand held video this steady (and my hands are not as steady as the average person due to a recent minor injury):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86NV6VPbh4
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post #16 of 22
4/30/12 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

I am more familiar with the OM-D now and was able to set the contrast lower. The OM-D video now looks gorgeous to me (even though it's only 1080i) - brighter and with alot more "pop" than the relatively dull and bland Panasonic camcorder video. And the OM-D is the only still camera that can shoot hand held video this steady (and my hands are not as steady as the average person due to a recent minor injury):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86NV6VPbh4

Ah you have vivid mode turned on...thus higher saturated color. 5200k? It doesn't look like 5200k color balance to me. It does look better in that scene but colors will probably be too bright and saturated when you have a lot of color in the scene. If that's what you like that's fine. The still camera also uses a different gamma setting and that's probably what you like.

The brilliant red around that gas station doesn't look that bright a red in real life.

I don't mined 1080i video either. I convert my 1080p recordings to 1080i using my Panny camcorder to convert and it looks about as good as the 1080p video when you pass it through a high end deinterlacer.
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post #17 of 22
4/30/12 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronomy View Post

Ah you have vivid mode turned on...thus higher saturated color. The brilliant red around that gas station doesn't look that bright a red in real life.

Here's the same scene shot in Natural picture mode with realistic colors. Still looks brighter and more lively than camcorder video does IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rNGgPBy9M
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post #18 of 22
4/30/12 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Here's the same scene shot in Natural picture mode with realistic colors. Still looks brighter and more lively than camcorder video does IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rNGgPBy9M

Don't get me wrong the scene looks good and you have great still scenes too with a camera like that. I bet gamma is different. That will make images look brighter or darker depending on which direction gamma is adjusted. I would think the camcorder is true to a 2.2 gamma on a calibrated screen.

The camcorder has settings for greater contrast/brightness and color. It also has the expanded color mode that is only active when you turn it on in Manual mode.

Try turning on spot light mode and dynamic contrast on the camcorder. Then increase color.
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post #19 of 22
5/1/12 at 7:48pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions, but I've tried them before on the TM900, and also on my formerly owned SD90 and yet I still can't get those camcorders to produce bright images with bright colors like I can with still cameras that shoot video such as the Canon T3i and Olympus OM-D. Also, on Vimeo and Youtube, all the 2011 model Panasonic camcorder video samples I have seen look comparatively dull as compared to still camera video.

Example: here are screen shots of two Olympus OM-D videos vs two Panasonic TM90 videos:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...w/omd_tm90.jpg

Until the OM-D arrived, there were no still cameras that had camcorder like image stabilization so it was very awkward to shoot hand held video with them. And few had silent focusing and zoom capability or auto focus tracking combined with auto exposure compensation. The OM-D has all that, plus image stabilization that's substantially better than the TM90 and TM900 stabilization. Here's another hand held example of OM-D video I shot today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4dlB0xVRA

I mention all this not to put down the camcorders, but only to inform others that even though the 1080p video that's commonly available on camcorders may technically be superior (twice as much data in their files), in other ways the 1080i video of many still cameras can sometimes produce video that more closely mimics the brightness and colors of what the human eye sees. And one still camera (Olympus OM-D) offers cutting edge image stabilization.
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post #20 of 22
5/1/12 at 8:39pm
This is why I like my HF G10 so much. The colors are vibrant although I make certain the colors mimic what my eyes see.
Plus I don't lose those colors in low light like some other cameras do.
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post #21 of 22
5/2/12 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've tried them before on the TM900, and also on my formerly owned SD90 and yet I still can't get those camcorders to produce bright images with bright colors like I can with still cameras that shoot video such as the Canon T3i and Olympus OM-D. Also, on Vimeo and Youtube, all the 2011 model Panasonic camcorder video samples I have seen look comparatively dull as compared to still camera video.

Example: here are screen shots of two Olympus OM-D videos vs two Panasonic TM90 videos:
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/u...w/omd_tm90.jpg

Until the OM-D arrived, there were no still cameras that had camcorder like image stabilization so it was very awkward to shoot hand held video with them. And few had silent focusing and zoom capability or auto focus tracking combined with auto exposure compensation. The OM-D has all that, plus image stabilization that's substantially better than the TM90 and TM900 stabilization. Here's another hand held example of OM-D video I shot today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4dlB0xVRA

I mention all this not to put down the camcorders, but only to inform others that even though the 1080p video that's commonly available on camcorders may technically be superior (twice as much data in their files), in other ways the 1080i video of many still cameras can sometimes produce video that more closely mimics the brightness and colors of what the human eye sees. And one still camera (Olympus OM-D) offers cutting edge image stabilization.

Thats funny! When I use spotlight mode and intelligent contrast I find it looks too bright sometimes. LOL

I do like some of thos shots you took. Will look at this camera as i would like a good still camera too.
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post #22 of 22
5/4/12 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Here's the same scene shot in Natural picture mode with realistic colors. Still looks brighter and more lively than camcorder video does IMHO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rNGgPBy9M

It does actually look pretty good. Much better than my Canon HF20 (I think that's the right model). I'm still concerned that it clips highlights abruptly with stills like all past 4/3rds and m4/3rds have done, but I'm hopeful. Still waiting for a few more in-depth tests before I order one up to try. Do you have any other video samples that you can post?
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