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RW-12D vs PL-150

post #1 of 31
4/28/12 at 8:55pm
Thread Starter 
I have a 400 dollar spending limit. And after a few days of doing research. I came down with with the klipsch RW-12D and the PL-150 subwoofer. I never seen these two talked about on any forum. Can you guys help me out. I also looked into the LAVA 12, polk psw-505, pl-120 and pl-200 please help a brother out.
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post #2 of 31
4/29/12 at 6:47am
You can check Josh Ricci's excellent reviews of the PA-150 and PL-200 at www.data-bass.com.

Archea did a very nice review of a pair of the the Klipsch RW-12d subwoofers. The RW-12d is not necessarily recommended at its regular price but is recommended at its (rarely offered) sale price of $299.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi...t-1390563.html
On sale at Newegg through today
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882780078

At slightly less than $400, the Hsu STF-2 is recommended (but it seems unlikely to play as loud as the PA-150.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...r-4-2005.html- Ed Mullen review of 505, little output below 30-35 Hz but still may be reasonable for music and some HT situations. Polk sub amps have generally been quite reliable. “As expected, room gain helped considerably to improve deep extension, with the Polk holding flat to about 25 Hz, and then dropping to –10 dB at 20 Hz.”
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post #3 of 31
4/29/12 at 7:07am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your input, but I'm a rookie in all this . But which sub would you go with.
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post #4 of 31
4/29/12 at 8:07am
Here's some discussion on the klipsch measurements in my room
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1394073

Given the pl200 measurements at databass, I would buy the klipsch. The pl200 falls off 20db at 20hz.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=47&mset=45


Note that in 2005 the klipsch was in a roundup with svs, hsu, outlaw, velodyne etc and it wasn't last place in that lineup. Most of the competitors were $500 to $800. At 300 to 350 its about the best deal going.
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post #5 of 31
4/29/12 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworld5000 View Post

Thanks for your input, but I'm a rookie in all this . But which sub would you go with.

Hello Mac, I thought I would give experiance is all. I have the PA-150 as its an excellent sub for the price! I use to have dual Bic Pl-200's as I thought they were quite well until I got the PA-150. THe PA domanated over the dual Pl-200's. I also have an Outlaw EX in whcih is a fantastic sub, it plays much deeper than the PA but when the LF starts to climb a bit the PA still will sometimes overpower the EX... esp in the upper LF anyhow.
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post #6 of 31
4/29/12 at 9:17am
Depends on what frequencies you most value I guess. Here's a video showing what lower frequencies do. Keep in mind none of these subs discussed would come anywhere near to what the Caps are doing...but the lower frequencies sure are a lot fun!


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post #7 of 31
4/29/12 at 9:17am
It definitely sounds like the PA-150 might have more output than the Klipsch.

And here's a lengthy dicussion thread on the RW-12d that you might find useful: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1303085
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post #8 of 31
4/29/12 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Depends on what frequencies you most value I guess. Here's a video showing what lower frequencies do. Keep in mind none of these subs discussed would come anywhere near to what the Caps are doing...but the lower frequencies sure are a lot fun!

In case you didn't know, you are inspirational. I showed your video to one of my students who is a film major. And it inspired him to start thinking about low frequency bass content in his films
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post #9 of 31
4/29/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

In case you didn't know, you are inspirational. I showed your video to one of my students who is a film major. And it inspired him to start thinking about low frequency bass content in his films

fantastic! Hope he makes it big and makes this hobby even more enjoyable for the rest of us. More movies on LFE man's five star bass list sounds good to me!
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post #10 of 31
4/29/12 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

fantastic! Hope he makes it big and makes this hobby even more enjoyable for the rest of us. More movies on LFE man's five star bass list sounds good to me!

Thank you very much for the video Arch.... well worth the info!! I will have to save up for the JTR Caps . But to be fair the PA-150 can be had for around $380 as aposed to $1,300 or so for the Caps so the Caps are def. in the top ball park.
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post #11 of 31
4/29/12 at 4:35pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks a lot guys it look like I'm going to go with the pl-150. I have five infinity primus all around with no damn subwoofer. It's driving me nuts.
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post #12 of 31
4/30/12 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworld5000 View Post

Thanks a lot guys it look like I'm going to go with the pl-150. I have five infinity primus all around with no damn subwoofer. It's driving me nuts.

You have good speakers and you should get the best subwoofer in your price range. The PL-150 can get louder in the mid-bass but this is at the loss of accuracy in frequency response. The Klipsch is a more accurate sub and less of an entry level sub than the PL-150. When the Klipsch has been available for $300 it was widely held to be the best deal going at that price point.
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post #13 of 31
5/1/12 at 3:27pm
Thread Starter 
What about the csx 15 mark II, this sub stats look real nice, nice enough for me to spend a extra $100 for it, any thoughts guys
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post #14 of 31
5/1/12 at 6:19pm
If you are willing to spend for the CSX-15, then the best deal would be the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus, on sale for the next few days for $499 shipped. While it won't have quite the overall output of the Cadence and the PA-150, it has a much flatter frequency response, which means you'll be able to better hear/feel the lower frequencies in HT usage.
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post #15 of 31
5/1/12 at 6:46pm
^^^
can't argue with that.
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post #16 of 31
5/1/12 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 
So the outlaw is the best subwoofer in the 500 range. My living room is 20x12. I'm looking fofor the best in my range. Any more idea's. Friday is the day when I plan on ordering my sub
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post #17 of 31
5/2/12 at 4:28am
I believe the Outlaw plus would be your best bet at $500 ( includes free shipping). I have both the Outlaw EX ( just a lightly bigger cabinet is all) and a PA-150. For movies that offer the LF the Outlaw dominates over the PA by far, its not until around 30hz and above to where the PA starts to shine.
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post #18 of 31
5/2/12 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

I believe the Outlaw plus would be your best bet at $500 ( includes free shipping). I have both the Outlaw EX ( just a lightly bigger cabinet is all) and a PA-150. For movies that offer the LF the Outlaw dominates over the PA by far, its not until around 30hz and above to where the PA starts to shine.


What do you mean by LF? Im a rookie to this new world of HT. Just last year I had a sony with 3x3 cubed speakers and a 8inch woofer i thought my system was the **** lol. But I see the stats on the outlaw and it seems like the EX and the +1 was some serous subs. but can you put it in laymen speak how the outlaw smashes the pl-150?
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post #19 of 31
5/2/12 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworld5000 View Post

What do you mean by LF? Im a rookie to this new world of HT. Just last year I had a sony with 3x3 cubed speakers and a 8inch woofer i thought my system was the **** lol. But I see the stats on the outlaw and it seems like the EX and the +1 was some serous subs. but can you put it in laymen speak how the outlaw smashes the pl-150?

You keep typing "PL" is that the same as the "PA"150?

If so the Outlaw won't "smash" it but will provide significant output below 30hz. The PA 150 has very little output below 30hz.

Above 30hz the PA 150 might actually have an advantage by 40 or 50hz. Check out the link that I believe was already provided to data-bass.
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post #20 of 31
5/2/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworld5000 View Post

What do you mean by LF?

I imagine he means "low frequencies."
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post #21 of 31
5/2/12 at 7:00pm
I believe LF is referring Low Frequencies.

I can't speak for skally or Cel4145 but I'll try to explain it for you. Over 30Hz, the PA-150 will have the ability to play louder. 30hz is fairly low and will make your picture frame vibrate depending on how loud your volume is of course. But when movie contents sends signals under 30Hz, the PA will still play them, but the volume (output) will start to decrease as the "sound waves" gets lower (lower Hz) until it doesn't have the ability to play them anymore which is around 25Hz.

The Outlaw, will still play very loud but not as loud over app. 30Hz because the PA a bigger driver. BUT the Outlaw has a better driver. When playing content under 30Hz, it's volume will decrease a lot less faster then the PA. Also, it will play content (extend) below 25Hz (very deep bass). As a matter of fact, it will play all the way down to 20Hz.

At reference level, you may not find the very deep bass (20Hz) to be "loud" but you will feel it. You feel it in your skin, your chest, your couch...it's just plain fun.

More and more movies are including sub 25Hz content in their audio track so that's why most ppl will strongly recommend subs like the Outlaw. When you watch your favorite Transformers or War of the World, you will smile uncontrollably and never look back

When Skally and Cel chimes back in, they probably will give you a better explanation as their technical background are greater then mine but in the meantime, I hope it help you understand a little better.

cheers

Edit: kini and cel already beat me to it
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post #22 of 31
5/3/12 at 4:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

I believe LF is referring Low Frequencies.

I can't speak for skally or Cel4145 but I'll try to explain it for you. Over 30Hz, the PA-150 will have the ability to play louder. 30hz is fairly low and will make your picture frame vibrate depending on how loud your volume is of course. But when movie contents sends signals under 30Hz, the PA will still play them, but the volume (output) will start to decrease as the "sound waves" gets lower (lower Hz) until it doesn't have the ability to play them anymore which is around 25Hz.

The Outlaw, will still play very loud but not as loud over app. 30Hz because the PA a bigger driver. BUT the Outlaw has a better driver. When playing content under 30Hz, it's volume will decrease a lot less faster then the PA. Also, it will play content (extend) below 25Hz (very deep bass). As a matter of fact, it will play all the way down to 20Hz.

At reference level, you may not find the very deep bass (20Hz) to be "loud" but you will feel it. You feel it in your skin, your chest, your couch...it's just plain fun.

More and more movies are including sub 25Hz content in their audio track so that's why most ppl will strongly recommend subs like the Outlaw. When you watch your favorite Transformers or War of the World, you will smile uncontrollably and never look back

When Skally and Cel chimes back in, they probably will give you a better explanation as their technical background are greater then mine but in the meantime, I hope it help you understand a little better.

cheers

Edit: kini and cel already beat me to it


Thx alot I understand totally now. But now the question now is which. Outlaw to get the plus or the ex. Its about a 150 dollar difference. Is the ex even that much better?
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post #23 of 31
5/3/12 at 5:37am
I should of just said Low Frequencies instead of just using abbreviations as "LF" but yes that is what I ment by LF... my bad .

Jproy13 said it best is his post as I really couldnt add anthing to that, he pretty much nailed it.

From my understanding the only real differnace bewteen the Outlaw plus & EX is the cabinet size, the Plus is just a tad bit smaller but I could be wrong? The outlaw is a fantastic sub so either would be a great choice IMO.
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post #24 of 31
5/3/12 at 5:48am
Jproy13,

That's a fantastic explanation in layman terms.
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post #25 of 31
5/3/12 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Jproy13,

That's a fantastic explanation in layman terms.

I know... that was quite good huh??

Archaea Thanks for the video BTW I do have a question for you thou as to the JTR & HSU VT15. I was just reading up on the links you had for the shhot outs and such. ITs hard to tell as I only breifly looked around but did the HSU have better results over the JTR? In maybe a year I would like to upgrade to a bigger sub ( when funds allow that is) as I am curious on your opinion of the two. I have never had the chance to see them in person so I thought I would ask is all. Thanks

Jeff
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post #26 of 31
5/3/12 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jproy13 View Post

When Skally and Cel chimes back in, they probably will give you a better explanation as their technical background are greater then mine but in the meantime, I hope it help you understand a little better.

Yeah. That was an awesome explanation
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post #27 of 31
5/3/12 at 2:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

I should of just said Low Frequencies instead of just using abbreviations as "LF" but yes that is what I ment by LF... my bad .

Jproy13 said it best is his post as I really couldnt add anthing to that, he pretty much nailed it.

From my understanding the only real differnace bewteen the Outlaw plus & EX is the cabinet size, the Plus is just a tad bit smaller but I could be wrong? The outlaw is a fantastic sub so either would be a great choice IMO.

So the bigger cabinet makes for better sound?
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post #28 of 31
5/3/12 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

I know... that was quite good huh??

Archaea Thanks for the video BTW I do have a question for you thou as to the JTR & HSU VT15. I was just reading up on the links you had for the shhot outs and such. ITs hard to tell as I only breifly looked around but did the HSU have better results over the JTR? In maybe a year I would like to upgrade to a bigger sub ( when funds allow that is) as I am curious on your opinion of the two. I have never had the chance to see them in person so I thought I would ask is all. Thanks

Jeff

Jeff where did you see the HSU beats the JTR? The popular HSU sub might feasibly beat the JTR subs in looks and certainly in price but as to performance I'd put the JTRs a category or two above. That's not to say anything negative about the HSU. It's a great sub. I like it quite a bit.
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post #29 of 31
5/3/12 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworld5000 View Post

So the bigger cabinet makes for better sound?

Better not necessarily. All else being equal a bigger box will have greater low frequency output (if it's tuned to do so).

Better is also subjective. For some boomy, distorted "bass" sounds better than clean accurate bass.

Subs pretty much come down to three things-

cabinet size
driver size
amp size
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post #30 of 31
5/4/12 at 4:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Jeff where did you see the HSU beats the JTR? The popular HSU sub might feasibly beat the JTR subs in looks and certainly in price but as to performance I'd put the JTRs a category or two above. That's not to say anything negative about the HSU. It's a great sub. I like it quite a bit.

Oh my... very sorry, my bad! I had a bit more time to look over the links with the charts, graphs & so on I as previous just glanced over it. I now see the JTR was quite the machine .
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