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How to match a sub

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
How do you match a sub to your speakers?

I am considering buying a sub for my second system and am not sure what would be the best fit. My current speakers are the Dali Mentor 5.

It is powered by a NAD C372. (150 watts)

This is just a 2 channel set up so it would be a 2.1.
What do I look for?

Should the sub be the same wattage? Should it be double or more?

Sticking just to this page for now

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

Which of these is best suited to compliment my Dali Mentor 5 speakers?
post #2 of 85
Thread Starter 
no one?
post #3 of 85
I never had trouble matching a sub to any of my speakers it was a matter of getting the crossover right mains vs sub. According to the spec sheet on your NAD it has per- out 2 which can be used for sub out and in that case almost all subs have a left and right sub in from a pre-amp what I can't see if you have the ability to limit your bass out on pre-1 in order to steer all bass from say 60 or 70 Hz down.
post #4 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I never had trouble matching a sub to any of my speakers it was a matter of getting the crossover right mains vs sub.

So watts and size are of no importance?

Is that your feedback?

As to "getting the crossover right" mains vs sub I assume you mean maximizing the potential of the sub by filtering all the low end to the sub and the highs to the left and right speakers?
post #5 of 85
Yes watts and size make a difference but I rely on ID subs to match their driver,amp and box to work as stated and they usually do.
To make your selection you need to decide on sealed or ported and how loud you plan to play it also what size room will this be in.
As for the crossover since your amp is very capable of delivering and the speakers can be flat to 50 Hz make the crossover start at 60Hz and play with it since almost all subs will do a better job of 60Hz down than most mains.
post #6 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

So watts and size are of no importance?

Is that your feedback?

As to "getting the crossover right" mains vs sub I assume you mean maximizing the potential of the sub by filtering all the low end to the sub and the highs to the left and right speakers?


Watts and size has more to do with your room volume and bass extension. If you are looking for a sub that integrates well with your speakers, try finding one that is linear, meaning that it offers a wide flat frequency response. It will also be faithful to music as well as video sources. Tell us your budget, what type of audio material you listen to and your room size. The more specific you are, the easier it will be to help you.


Ian
post #7 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Watts and size has more to do with your room volume and bass extension. If you are looking for a sub that integrates well with your speakers, try finding one that is linear, meaning that it offers a wide flat frequency response. It will also be faithful to music as well as video sources. Tell us your budget, what type of audio material you listen to and your room size. The more specific you are, the easier it will be to help you.


Ian

Room 19X24, music all but acoustic, blues, rock based.

From the link I posted which would be a best choice for me?

Budget, $3000 or so but would be happier at $1,000-$2,000 as the speakers were only $3,500.
post #8 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I never had trouble matching a sub to any of my speakers it was a matter of getting the crossover right mains vs sub. According to the spec sheet on your NAD it has per- out 2 which can be used for sub out and in that case almost all subs have a left and right sub in from a pre-amp what I can't see if you have the ability to limit your bass out on pre-1 in order to steer all bass from say 60 or 70 Hz down.

He doesn't have any kind of crossover in the amp. He would need a sub that can take L/R input signal from the pre-out and filter out the bass before sending it back to the amp.
post #9 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

He doesn't have any kind of crossover in the amp. He would need a sub that can take L/R input signal from the pre-out and filter out the bass before sending it back to the amp.

I was referring to the NAD website for their sub hookup for his model and yes I agree with you it needs to be crossed over or filtered since I did not read all of the manual I would not know all of the settings.
post #10 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Room 19X24, music all but acoustic, blues, rock based.

From the link I posted which would be a best choice for me?

Budget, $3000 or so but would be happier at $1,000-$2,000 as the speakers were only $3,500.

If you want to stick to th $3k budget, then I would suggest 2 Rythmik FV15's. My 1 FV15 is amazing! I sent the link for the FV15HP because the FV15 doesn't have a picture..

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

Jeff
post #11 of 85
The sub should naturally take over from your mains without any perceivable holes/gaps in the sound. Essentially your crossover point is very important.
post #12 of 85
Thread Starter 
Best one from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

Thanks very much.
post #13 of 85
The subs by speaker manufacturers are in general very expensive. They add all the overheads to the consumer just like they do for their speakers. They may be good. Sure when you pay a couple of grant for a sub it better be good :-) You get a lot more value from an ID (Internet Direct) sub. You wont see a lot of subs by speaker manufacturers recommended here.

If my budget were like $2000, I would get a nice AVR with pre-outs so that I can use that as a pre-pro with the amp and get an ID sub. This way I dont have to worry about bass management.
post #14 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

If you want to stick to th $3k budget, then I would suggest 2 Rythmik FV15's. My 1 FV15 is amazing! I sent the link for the FV15HP because the FV15 doesn't have a picture..

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

Jeff

I think 2 Rythmiks for a 2 channel music only system is overkill.
post #15 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I think 2 Rythmiks for a 2 channel music only system is overkill.

I agree, I myself would look at a Seaton Sub. Great Sub for music. It is in your budget. Depending on what veneer and model you go with, it would be in the $2K to $2.5 range.

http://www.seatonsound.net/
post #16 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I think 2 Rythmiks for a 2 channel music only system is overkill.

Thanks but what do you think is
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?
post #17 of 85
There is no point in spending $2k on subs that go down to the teens for 2ch music where there is generally not much content at all even in the 20's. There are always exceptions.

For 2ch music, the OP would be fine with a ported 12" sub like SVS PB12 or a sealed 12" sub like SVS SB12 or Epik Legend. Save the money and get a nice AVR/pre-pro like Onkyo 818 (MSRP $1200) which has Audyssey XT32 or Denon 33XX if you dont care about XT32. You will still have money left to add a sub only correction like Antimode 8033B or 8033C
post #18 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but what do you think is
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

Nothing on that page is worth the money. Like I said before, speaker manufacturers dont make the best subs. They just add the cost to the consumer. Unless you are getting some deal like 50% off, the recommendations you will get here would be mostly for ID subs as they have a better value.

For example the Klipsch RW-12D is listed for some $700 (or $900 at some places) but who is going to buy that for $700 or $900 when there are many cheaper better ID options, unless the consumer is not very well informed. People buy that Klipsch sub when it goes on sale for $299 shipped as it is not worth more than that.
post #19 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I agree, I myself would look at a Seaton Sub. Great Sub for music. It is in your budget. Depending on what veneer and model you go with, it would be in the $2K to $2.5 range.

http://www.seatonsound.net/

Thanks but what do you think is
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?
post #20 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Nothing on that page is worth the money. Like I said before, speaker manufacturers dont make the best subs. They just add the cost to the consumer. Unless you are getting some deal like 50% off, the recommendations you will get here would be mostly for ID subs as they have a better value.

For example the Klipsch RW-12D is listed for some $700 (or $900 at some places) but who is going to buy that for $700 or $900 when there are many cheaper better ID options, unless the consumer is not very well informed. People buy that Klipsch sub when it goes on sale for $299 shipped as it is not worth more than that.

Thanks but what do you think is
"best" sub from this page for my needs in spite of the fact that you believe I would be over paying?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers
post #21 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but what do you think is
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

I like many others found the ID subs to offer more bang for the buck so unless there is a particular reason you want one from that mfg it can be beat both performance and cost wise especially with the budget you allocated.
post #22 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I like many others found the ID subs to offer more bang for the buck so unless there is a particular reason you want one from that mfg it can be beat both performance and cost wise especially with the budget you allocated.

Thanks but what do you think is the
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?


There are many factors that got me down to this page and at this point I only need to know what I ask.

The feedback is appreciated but if you are not familiar enough with these products and specs and how they would relate to my room size and listening needs just say so.

I am starting to wonder if anyone really knows anything about subs. It sounds like each poster has a personal mantra that they cannot step out of.
post #23 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I am starting to wonder if anyone really knows anything about subs. It sounds like each poster has a personal mantra that they cannot step out of.

Then perhaps another forum will give you the answers you're looking for.
post #24 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but what do you think is the
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?


There are many factors that got me down to this page and at this point I only need to know what I ask.

The feedback is appreciated but if you are not familiar enough with these products and specs and how they would relate to my room size and listening needs just say so.

I am starting to wonder if anyone really knows anything about subs. It sounds like each poster has a personal mantra that they cannot step out of.

I have been an installer and tech for years and if you want to drop your money on a particular brand or product thats your choice and I defend it.
The knowledge base on this forum exceeds any audio store I have been in for the last 40 years and people devote their time and knowledge free of charge and stand to make no gains other than keeping others from making the mistakes most of us have already made.
As for your particular subs no I have not but rest assured if they were the great end all for the money they would have a thread such as the Paradigm Sub 2 etc etc. because there are forum members that have deep pockets and will purchase all in order to evaluate and eliminate products based on performance alone or performance per dollar. Good luck.
post #25 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but what do you think is the
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?


There are many factors that got me down to this page and at this point I only need to know what I ask.

The feedback is appreciated but if you are not familiar enough with these products and specs and how they would relate to my room size and listening needs just say so.

I am starting to wonder if anyone really knows anything about subs. It sounds like each poster has a personal mantra that they cannot step out of.

That kind of attitude is not going to help.

On what basis did you narrow down to PSB subs out of all the subs on this planet. I cant imagine any research/home work/reading that would steer you towards PSB subs. PSB speakers may be but PSB subs? PSB subs are just not the best value period. You are not going to get any feedback about them here. The unanimous suggestion here would be to go for ID subs. So dont ask that question here again.

If you are bent upon getting a PSB sub for whatever reason, you might want to go to the PSB speaker owners thread and ask. I bet even a die hard PSB speaker fan is not going to buy a PSB sub for the obvious reason that they are not the best value for the $ spent unless you get a major deal like the Klipsch RW-12D
post #26 of 85
Yea I don't even think commys would recommend a psb sub :/
post #27 of 85
Your question has already been implicitly answered. None of those PSB subs are suitable to go with your Dali Mentor 5s. They are not of sufficient sound quality to match up with them. Indeed, I would bet that the Dali Mentors produce much more articulate bass down to their low frequency roll off than the PSB subs, which would negate your reason for buying those particular subs because you wouldn't need the high pass filters. I have a 10" ported sub in that class (price/performance range), and I found that even the B&W 601 bookshelves that I used to have produced more detailed midbass (and they are bass shy) over the 10" sub (I now use that sub in a computer desktop 2.1 system). No one here is every going to recommend one of those subs to use with your setup. It would be a crime (lol).

Your problem is electronics, not the subs. If you get the Emotiva USP-1, you would have a pre-amp that would allow you to run any good sub. It has built in high pass filters. You could either run it as your main preamp with all of your components plugged into it, and then just use NAD as a power amp (plug it into the main amp inputs), or insert it into the processing audio chain on the NAD between pre out 1 and the main amp inputs.

If you have that, then the Rythmik F15HP would be an excellent choice. You need a high output sub given your room size, and the Rythmik subs are acknowledged to be some of the best sound quality in their price range, way better than what you would get out of the PSBs.

If you don't want to deal with an extra piece of electronics, it looks like the SVS PB13-Ultra has low and high pass filters like the PSB subs (verify this by calling SVS). But once again, the SVS is in a class that matches better with your Dali Mentors.
post #28 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Your question has already been implicitly answered.

No, my question has not been answered which is why I keep asking it.



Quote:


None of those PSB subs are suitable to go with your Dali Mentor 5s. They are not of sufficient sound quality to match up with them. Indeed, I would bet that the Dali Mentors produce much more articulate bass down to their low frequency roll off than the PSB subs, which would negate your reason for buying those particular subs because you wouldn't need the high pass filters. I have a 10" ported sub in that class (price/performance range), and I found that even the B&W 601 bookshelves that I used to have produced more detailed midbass (and they are bass shy) over the 10" sub (I now use that sub in a computer desktop 2.1 system). No one here is every going to recommend one of those subs to use with your setup. It would be a crime (lol).

Your problem is electronics, not the subs. If you get the Emotiva USP-1, you would have a pre-amp that would allow you to run any good sub. It has built in high pass filters. You could either run it as your main preamp with all of your components plugged into it, and then just use NAD as a power amp (plug it into the main amp inputs), or insert it into the processing audio chain on the NAD between pre out 1 and the main amp inputs.

If you have that, then the Rythmik F15HP would be an excellent choice. You need a high output sub given your room size, and the Rythmik subs are acknowledged to be some of the best sound quality in their price range, way better than what you would get out of the PSBs.

If you don't want to deal with an extra piece of electronics, it looks like the SVS PB13-Ultra has low and high pass filters like the PSB subs (verify this by calling SVS). But once again, the SVS is in a class that matches better with your Dali Mentors.

Thank you. Although this still does not answer my question it is great info and makes me reconsider.

Let me ask you this as a result of your post, putting aside connection issues for now, which sub here http://www.dali.com.au/categories/subwoofers.asp would compliment the Dali Mentor 5 best in your opinion and why?
post #29 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

Then perhaps another forum will give you the answers you're looking for.

sadly that is what I was thinking.
post #30 of 85
I'm curious to how you narrowed it down to dali or psb?
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