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How to match a sub - Page 2

post #31 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

That kind of attitude is not going to help.

On what basis did you narrow down to PSB subs out of all the subs on this planet. I cant imagine any research/home work/reading that would steer you towards PSB subs. PSB speakers may be but PSB subs? PSB subs are just not the best value period. You are not going to get any feedback about them here. The unanimous suggestion here would be to go for ID subs. So dont ask that question here again.

If you are bent upon getting a PSB sub for whatever reason, you might want to go to the PSB speaker owners thread and ask. I bet even a die hard PSB speaker fan is not going to buy a PSB sub for the obvious reason that they are not the best value for the $ spent unless you get a major deal like the Klipsch RW-12D

God bless but for the record I would not buy a Klipsch anything.

Also note I never anywhere asked for the best value, just an FYI.
post #32 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Let me ask you this as a result of your post, putting aside connection issues for now, which sub here http://www.dali.com.au/categories/subwoofers.asp would compliment the Dali Mentor 5 best in your opinion and why?

You have a very big room. If you hope to play your speakers at serious volume with your NAD amp, you need a sub with high output. An 8" or 10" sub will definitely not cut it. A 12" ported or a 15" sealed sub should work.

The Rythmik sealed subs have the best reputation for SQ in this under $1500 range for sounding musical and producing articulate, detailed bass. They use direct servo technology which self corrects the signal to eliminate distortion. The best sealed subs in this price range will also typically have better sounding bass than the best ported subs (thus the choice for music), whereas the ported subs are a better price/performance option for more SPL output (thus usually the choice for HT).

Thus, my recommendation above of the Rythmik F15HP. I think you need at least a 15" in one of the Rythmik sealed subs for that size room. If you don't listen to it at loud volumes, then the Rythmik F15 might be fine. If you call Rythmik and ask, Brian Ding, the owner and designer of the subs can advise you.

BTW: the PSB subwoofers might not be that much better than the Klipsch subwoofers in the same price range.
post #33 of 85
Also, here's a review of the Rythmik F12SE. You would get similar quality with more volume output from the 15" Rythmik sealed subs. And here's a review of the Rythmik FV15HP, which, as a ported sub, has more ouput than the 15" Rythmik sealed subs, whereas the sealed subs should have a little better SQ.
post #34 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


BTW: the PSB subwoofers might not be that much better than the Klipsch subwoofers in the same price range.

that is scary!

Quote:


You have a very big room. If you hope to play your speakers at serious volume with your NAD amp, you need a sub with high output. An 8" or 10" sub will definitely not cut it. A 12" ported or a 15" sealed sub should work.

So, the room size is more important to consider when buying a sub than is matching it with main speakers outputs and specs?

I don't need it real loud as this is a second system. I generally throw on the main system for more serious listening.
post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post


that is scary!

So, the room size is more important to consider when buying a sub than is matching it with main speakers outputs and specs?

I don't need it real loud as this is a second system. I generally throw on the main system for more serious listening.

Yes! Placement is also something to consider too! You don't need to match subs to speakers.
post #36 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

You don't need to match subs to speakers.

not at all?

I would need the same sub if I only used my PSB Alpha B1 bookshelves?
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

So, the room size is more important to consider when buying a sub than is matching it with main speakers outputs and specs?

I don't need it real loud as this is a second system. I generally throw on the main system for more serious listening.

Yes and no. You have to have enough sub output for the room or you won't be able to feel the bass. But once you have determined how much sub you need in terms of SPL, then you can think about which has the best SQ to match up with your system.

If you aren't going to run it super loud, then you might also could consider dual SVS SB12-NSDs. They are considered very good for music (the Rythmiks might be a little better), and I believe (confirm this by calling SVS) that they have the built in high pass. What you could do is run y adapters to split the RCA L/R out from the main pre out on the amp to the two subs, and then run the output from one of the subs back to the main in on the NAD amp after it has filtered the high end for the speakers.
post #38 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post


not at all?

I would need the same sub if I only used my PSB Alpha B1 bookshelves?

Don't need to match at all
post #39 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

Don't need to match at all

Thanks but my question was I need the same sub for $300 bookshelf speakers as for $9,000 3 way speakers fired by 550 watts per channel speakers?

Because it's all about the room?
post #40 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Yes and no. You have to have enough sub output for the room or you won't be able to feel the bass. But once you have determined how much sub you need in terms of SPL, then you can think about which has the best SQ to match up with your system.

.

That makes sense, thanks.
post #41 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but my question was I need the same sub for $300 bookshelf speakers as for $9,000 3 way speakers fired by 550 watts per channel speakers?

Because it's all about the room?

Oh yea sorry didn't read the question right. Well if you are just doing a stereo system I'm sure those $9,000 3 ways can probably go low enough and loud enough to do justice for that recording. *IMHO*. $300 bookshelfs like my RC-10s can go low but not "loud" enough for some of my songs but for the majority of my collection they do just fine
post #42 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Thanks but what do you think is
best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

I looked that list and was trying to see the prices and specs on those subs. What type of music do you listen to and how loud do you like listen?
post #43 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I looked that list and was trying to see the prices and specs on those subs. What type of music do you listen to and how loud do you like listen?

not too loud generally but it is a big room
post #44 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

sadly that is what I was thinking.

Good then go! You came here for opinions and people are trying to help you get the best sub for you money and listing needs and you are being completely rude! I mean why?
post #45 of 85
Get a matching sub for your DALI! Less headache for you and others as neither money or performance isn't your objective.

As for my experience, I purchased my first serious sub to go with my system (paradigm studio 60v5 + Integra DTR 40.3) not too long ago. I didn't research enough and got a paradigm sub12. Despite being very happy with the performance, I wish I found this forum sooner to save me a few bucks. One of SVS or Rythmic sub would surely give me the same performance out of my sub12 with less money.
post #46 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Good then go!



Quote:


You came here for opinions and people are trying to help you get the best sub for you money

That is not what I asked for. I was very clear and very specific with my questions.

Quote:


and listing needs and you are being completely rude! I mean why?

I was not rude I was very appreciative to those that helped and strongly disinterested in those who were agenda driven. I guess those with an agenda took my strong disinterest as rude. That is because I ignored their thread altering posts which was the responsible thing for me to do.

When someone asks a question and you respond with a sales pitch for your agenda and disregard what the thread and poster are asking that is rude. Very rude.

Tell me why people do this.

If I am from out of town and ask where the best pizza in town is and you tell me over and over again where I should be getting hamburgers because they are on sale that is rude. That is what you did.

Be well and if you can tell me who has the best pizza in town I'd be appreciative to you also.
post #47 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Get a matching sub for your DALI! Less headache for you and others as neither money or performance isn't your objective.

Money is not too important performance is, hence my question.

Quote:


As for my experience, I purchased my first serious sub to go with my system (paradigm studio 60v5 + Integra DTR 40.3) not too long ago. I didn't research enough and got a paradigm sub12. Despite being very happy with the performance, I wish I found this forum sooner to save me a few bucks. One of SVS or Rythmic sub would surely give me the same performance out of my sub12 with less money.

Thanks for your story but I'd prefer you answered my question (if you can).

best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

thanks
post #48 of 85
Go with the Sub Series 500. Why? That's a very good question. Since it is clear that you are hell bent on going with a sub brand that no one in their right mind would recommend, why not? You don't care about money and have to have PSB, may as well buy the best they have.

Shan
post #49 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

Money is not too important performance is, hence my question.



Thanks for your story but I'd prefer you answered my question (if you can).

best sub from this page for my needs?

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers

and why?

thanks


For your room size and strictly from your psb page, only 2 subwoofers that I'd consider - subseries 500 and 300, mainly for their 12" drivers. Anything smaller might sound suffocating/inadequate in your room. Apparently 500 is the winner here because of its higher power and lower frequency extension.
post #50 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

not too loud generally but it is a big room


I would recommend the PSB SubSeries HD10. Its small but powerful. Not of a lot of bass below 30hz according to some reviews and specs but I know that's what you're after. The sub should be fine for a 2 channel music only system. They are definately nice looking units, should look good togther with your Mentors. At $1500, it is on the pricey side.
post #51 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I would recommend the PSB SubSeries HD10. Its small but powerful. Not of a lot of bass below 30hz according to some reviews and specs but I know that's what you're after. The sub should be fine for a 2 channel music only system. They are definately nice looking units, should look good togther with your Mentors. At $1500, it is on the pricey side.

It also appears from the manual for the HD10 that the high pass filter for filtering content back to the speakers through the line out is set fixed at 80hz. Not adjustable.
post #52 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

For your room size and strictly from your psb page, only 2 subwoofers that I'd consider - subseries 500 and 300, mainly for their 12" drivers. Anything smaller might sound suffocating/inadequate in your room. Apparently 500 is the winner here because of its higher power and lower frequency extension.

Thanks very much, I appreciate it.
post #53 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I would recommend the PSB SubSeries HD10. Its small but powerful. Not of a lot of bass below 30hz according to some reviews and specs but I know that's what you're after. The sub should be fine for a 2 channel music only system. They are definately nice looking units, should look good togther with your Mentors. At $1500, it is on the pricey side.

Thank you very much.
post #54 of 85
OP: People are trying to steer you away from the pizza because even the best pizza in town tastes like crap and it is a lot more expensive than an average hamburger in town. For the same money you could get the best hamburger in town. If you still insist on eating that pizza (in case you are a veggie), suit yourself. Even an average cheese burger in town would taste a lot better than that pizza you are going after.
post #55 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

OP: People are trying to steer you away from the pizza because even the best pizza in town tastes like crap and it is a lot more expensive than an average hamburger in town. For the same money you could get the best hamburger in town. If you still insist on eating that pizza (in case you are a veggie), suit yourself. Even an average cheese burger in town would taste a lot better than that pizza you are going after.

I got that but for health reasons I have to eat pizza.

One well meaning poster suggested I eat hamburger with rancid lettuce on top (Emotiva)

Enough said.
post #56 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I got that but for health reasons I have to eat pizza.

One well meaning poster suggested I eat hamburger with rancid lettuce on top (Emotiva)

Enough said.

Even that hamburger with rancid lettuce is not bad at all compared to that pizza! What kind of health reasons you have to so badly want to eat that pizza which everyone is asking you not to eat? Dont you realize that you are going to get sick eating that pizza?
post #57 of 85
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Even that hamburger with rancid lettuce is not bad at all compared to that pizza! What kind of health reasons you have to so badly want to eat that pizza which everyone is asking you not to eat? Dont you realize that you are going to get sick eating that pizza?

I have had food poisoning so many times from hamburger that was just not ready to serve that rather than go through all that again I'd rather eat safe even if I over pay.

If you know anything about subs I really would appreciate your input.

Here is my very specific question to you.

From this page

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers
Is the sub series 300 adequate for my needs or do I need the 500?

A serious answer with reasoning would be greatly appreciated.

A second question after that is answered would be, can you suggest a better sub for my needs that has a low level in from preamp and a low level out to amp.

No variations.

Thank you in advance for just answering the questions I asked.
post #58 of 85
Quote:


It sounds like each poster has a personal mantra that they cannot step out of.

That's funny. I get that same feeling from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post



If I am from out of town and ask where the best pizza in town is and you tell me over and over again where I should be getting hamburgers because they are on sale that is rude. That is what you did.

Be well and if you can tell me who has the best pizza in town I'd be appreciative to you also.

Ummm, no, no, YOU are the rude one as you have been constant about your pizza and have refused to even consider all the other pizza's in town. Very rude for an out of towner to alienate the locals, just because that out of towner is agenda driven. Now sir, THAT is rude and precisely what you have done thruout this thread.

Now, to this thread and to answer your quite specific topic starting question as to which sub from the PSB link you provided, then your 2nd very specific question as to which sub from the Dali link you provided. The answer is NONE. And you want to know why? Because they are ALL inferior subs, both in price and sound quality when compared to what has been suggested over and over again already, internet direct subwoofer companies.

Since money appears to be no concern, and sound quality is for you,
Quote:


Money is not too important performance is,

then why are you so adamant on saying everyone who has tried to help you is being rude?

You say there are many reasons that lead you to that PSB link, well it is obvious it wasn't due to research, or those subs would never have been on your radar. So if you are so hellbent on throwing away perfectly good money on an inferior product, why don't you try to explain HOW & WHY you reached the conclusion that your choice is only doable by going the PSB/Dali route? Answer that and you might get more responces geared toward teaching you the proper etiquette of subwoofers. The first thing learned you is that a subwoofer does not, and cannot, be 'matched' to main speakers, regardless of the brand or price.

And here is lesson #2...The only "matching" a subwoofer needs, is with another subwoofer, in which case, just as with the front speakers, they need to be the same for the best possible sound. And yes, this applies even if level matching is attempted.

Now please, you asked for help with very little info on the problem, please relax and accept the help being offered. You do not have to accept that help, but broaden your horizons and least look into other/better options available to you. Otherwise you are the one being "rude".
post #59 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

I got that but for health reasons I have to eat pizza.

One well meaning poster suggested I eat hamburger with rancid lettuce on top (Emotiva)

Enough said.

It appears you are fixed on a solution that nobody can recommend.

IAW your posts, money is irrelevant and the best performer from a specific product line is your desire. Go get the top of the line they offer.

You painted the response into a corner where nobody here wants to be.

NOW...there were some polite folks that asked what drove you to PSB as your brand of choice. I think everyone here is pretty curious why or how you chose that brand. If people understood your reason for choosing PSB, some of the good and knowledgeable folks here might be able to provide some better insight.
post #60 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/subwoofers
Is the sub series 300 adequate for my needs or do I need the 500?

But you haven't well explained your needs.

If you'll recall, in your previous thread, in the second post in that thread, I recommended that you

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

read this post and then seek recommendations on the AVS subwoofer forum. Would also help to let them know the information you specified here, and maybe even what kind of music you listen to.

But you didn't do that in your first post in this thread and have seemed hesitant to answer questions in favor of ordering people to answer yours. Sometimes the answer to a question requires information gathering.

My point is not to make this a personal attack on you, but to encourage you to provide much more information and answer any questions that seek to understand your particular situation and needs. Be more forthcoming. That way you can get the help that you want.

For instance, it might be slightly helpful to know what kind of music you primarily listen to instead of the music you do not,

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljr View Post

. . . all but acoustic, blues, rock based.
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