Alexandria, MN: HDTV Antenna for travel trailer

First thing you need to do is post a link to your TV Fool chart (address hidden), & it'll pull up all the stations that can be picked up with an outdoor antenna. Now when I ran a general TV Fool chart for your area, I see you're primarily served by translators. Post a TV Fool link for us to see what you get exactly. You might be able to get away with just a UHF antenna.

I don't see KSAX 42 (ABC) or KCCO 7 (CBS) having translators available in Alexandria. For those 2 stations, you'll need a VHF-HI/UHF antenna pointed at 125º or 126º. If you want to go with 2 antennas, either the Antennacraft HBU33 or Winegard HD7694 ponted at KCCO & KSAX, with either a 2 or 4 bay whisker antenna pointed at all the translators in the 347º direction. If you want to go with separate VHF & UHF antennas, the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 for just KCCO in a fixed position, & a 4 bay antenna either on a rotator, or move the UHF antenna around to be able to get a sweet spot for KSAX & the translators (preferably the 2 or 4 bay pointed more at KSAX, as the translators are strong enough to pick up on the back side of the UHF antenna. I wouldn't even worry about trying to get KAWB & KWCM's native signal, as they're available on translators K36KH-D & K27KN-D, & much closer to you than the native signals.

I only wish you could just use a UHF only antenna, but KCCO chose a VHF channel, & it's close enough that they're not offering a translator Alexandria (same with KSAX, though they're UHF).

I hesitate to ask an obvious question, but just in case you are not familiar with travel trailers, are you sure there is not already an antenna on the roof? Back in the 1990's when I was in the market for a camper, they seemed to be standard equipment. Most were a flat bat-wing design with a built-in amplifier inside the unit next to the outlet. Some did have a switch for a cable hook-up also. There would be a crank on the ceiling that raises the antenna and will also rotate it by hand.
Then again, you may have what was termed a park model home, that is more like a mini mobile home and has no self contained water, batteries, etc.

Winegard makes TV antennas for RV/travel trailers, although the previously mentioned HBU33 or 7694/96 would offer more gain if needed for longer distance reception.

I would not recommend a pre-amp at all, as nearly all your stations are less than 15 miles, & it would overload the already strong stations. As for a 2 or 4 bay antenna, anything from Antennas Direct would be good. Antennas Direct makes some great antennas, & usually made to last. They're expensive, but worth the money. Solidsignal.com & Summitsource.com are 2 places you can order from, along with Amazon.com. For where I live, once I get some money saved up, I plan to get the Antennas Direct 91XG for a few stations. I have the Winegard HD9032 & works good, but the 91XG is built to pick up distant stations a bit better. You won't need this antenna, as your stations are close, while mine are a bit farther. I have in my antenna array are: Antennacraft CS600 for VHF (got it for WOCK-CD (RF 4) 13.4 America One, or I would have bought the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 antenna) & Winegard HD9032 for UHF pointed at Chicago, & a Winegard HD-1080 for just WYIN. My VHF & UHF antennas pointed at Chicago are combined into an RCA TVPRAMP1R pre-amplifier, then that, along with Winegard HD-1080 antenna are combined into the Winegard CC7870 coupler. Here's my TV fool chart.

I didn't even realize that Antennas Direct now has DB2e & DB4e, & discontinued both the regular DB2 & DB4. My preference would be the DB4e, but since all your stations are under 20 miles, you could probably get away with the DB2e for UHF. If space on the mast is an issue, then go with the DB2e. Remember, you still have 1 VHF station (KCCO on RF 7), & either one of these antennas most likely won't pick it up (especially if the 75 ohm balun is filtered to only pick up UHF signals). Are you thinking about getting a separate VHF antenna? If so, then the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 is needed for KCCO. If you go that route of going with separate VHF & UHF antennas, you'll need a VHF/UHF combiner, & I personally recommend the Antennas Direct VHF/UHF combiner, since it has a case that encloses the connections to the combiner.

I would try the setup you already have in your trailer before buying an antenna.An antenna from the 60's will pick up hdtv signals but you need a tv with a digital tuner to get a picture.

RVs with factory-installed antennas usually have the Winegard Sensar installed.

The Sensar is a decent VHF antenna but is lousy on UHF. Winegard has an add-on called the Wingman that attaches to the front of the Sensar that helps a lot, but it still isn't all that great on UHF. If you have the Sensar installed with no Wingman, adding one would be a good thing to test before buying a new antenna system.

If you're looking at antennas from Antennas Direct, the C2V is probably the best compromise. UHF performance will be about the same as a DB2e plus it includes a VHF element that should pick up that single VHF-7 signal. It can also be modified to make it bi-directional on UHF (it's already that way on high-VHF) by removing the reflector, a simple task since it's just held together with screws and nuts. The C2V is also a lot more compact than the new bowties, handy to have if you have to keep the antenna portable.

I don't know about everyone else... but I'd give it a shot.

I had the exact described Winegard antenna on my RV back in the 1990's. I was trying to remember some of the places I used it and settled on where my Parents used to live in Alamogordo, NM. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...de652ce5f16925 That was back in the analog days of course, but I would get very clear reception of all of those UHF translators plus could rotate the antenna around towards El Paso and get at least the stronger VHF's. KTSM RF 9 is the only one still on the air with their same frequency.
That was without any add on for UHF performance. Also, in it's original configuration, the Batwing is bidirectional, which would be great for the Minnesota location. I would try pointing it towards the translators and the two full power stations will probably come in on the other side.
The only drawback to this Batwing was that it is amplified and like most amplified antennas it does not do much with the amplifier turned off. The only time I remember that being a problem was in Palm Springs, CA. They had two full power UHF channels plus several translators. With the amplifier turned on I got interference on the translators so would choose to turn the amp off and settle for a snowy picture. With digital, it may have been enough for a lock even with the amp off.
So, yes, I would certainly try what you already have and work from there if it is not satisfactory.

When I looked back at the postings that you already have another antenna on your home, that maybe you should see how well that works first. If it gets your sole VHF station & all your UHF stations, then no new antenna is needed. If it gets your sole VHF (KCCO), but not all your UHF stations, then the DB2e or DB4e will help with those stations. With both of them having wide beams, it would help a bit at aiming that antenna in a way that you can get KSAX & all the translators. Now if you decide you want to get the Antennacraft HBU33 or Winegard HD7694p antenna & just 1 antenna, then it must be rotated to properly get all stations, as those are much more directional than the DB2e & DB4e.Your TV Fool chart isn't as complicated as mine is at getting certain stations. At least you could use a DB4e or DB2e, & aim it in a way to get all your UHF stations. I, however, must use a second antenna, just because 1 station is in a direction that it doesn't get picked up properly on the backside of my UHF antenna, & a second antenna is need, or that station goes in & out on me.

Definitely try what you already have. Just connect it to the TV, aim it and run a scan for digital antenna channels.

TV antennas work the same for both analog and digital broadcasts.

I've tried the Sensar with and without Wingman, and it's poor either way.

Location added to thread title.

I have never used a wingman antenna, & not sure how those would be aimed. Someone who has used one would be able to help you with that one. But if that doesn't work at all, or doesn't work too well for UHF, then I would get the DB2e or DB4e for UHF, & aim it toward the translators in the 347° direction, as it looks like KSAX is the strongest of your UHF stations, despite being twice the distance of the translators. If necessary, turn it a little bit away from the translators to aim it just right for KSAX to get picked up on the back side. Hope it works at least for KCCO, that if you need a UHF antenna, then you can get one that works. Otherwise, the Antennacraft Y5-7-13 is needed.

One antenna I forgot that I could recommend would give you VHF-HI/UHF on the same antenna. Since I have an RF 7 broadcasting in my area, I have tried the Winegard HD-1080 antenna for Chicago VHF & UHF stations. I got 7 with no trouble, & I got all my full power UHF stations with it. It works great for my local RF 7, but I lost RF 12 with the same antenna. Since I bought it for the free shipping in 2009, & for getting my local PBS station, WYIN, due to that station transmitting south of my home, while Chicago stations are NW. It's something to consider. On that antenna, the VHF elements are between the bowties, or whiskers as some would call them.

In Chicago, WLS simulcasts on RF7 and RF44. Unless you were able to uniquely able to identify the broadcast channel as RF7, you might have been receiving the UHF signal.

When I tried my Winegard HD-1080 antenna out with my Magnavox DTV box (model#TB100MW9), I had all channel 7's removed, & entered 7 for the RF 7, & got it with a reading around 90 - 95%. Removed 7, & 44 (virtual channel 44), & entered 44 for RF 44, & I got that too as 7.1 - 7.3, but I got a weaker signal of around 60%. This still holds true with my Winegard HD9032 UHF only antenna. In my case, the UHF WLS-TV currently isn't as strong as the VHF WLS-TV. Even worse when they tried what was supposed to be their new channel 44 antenna on the Sears Tower, WLS-TV on RF 44 was going in & out a lot for me. Since that time, I've stayed with the VHF WLS-TV until the problem gets resolved (if ever).

Regardless, from my experience with the Winegard HD-1080 antenna & RF 7, it works. If it had worked better for WBBM-TV on RF 12, then I would have bought a second one to use for Chicago stations, instead of dedicating the one I bought for just WYIN. Since the OP has just 1 VHF station in the Alexandria, MN area (KCCO on RF 7), this is an antenna worth looking into, & all stations are less than 20 miles away, with the translators under 10 miles away.

Signal strength "numbers" vary widely from tuner to tuner. And a signal strength number (or percent) that is strong enough for a lock on one TV, may be unusable on another. So the numbers posted are really meaningless.

If your signals is strong enough for the TV tuner to consitently lock onto the signal without breaking up and causing pixelization, freezing or audio dropouts, that's all the signal you need. If that's the case, I would leave the antenna in its current position.

RF (aka "real") channel numbers are more meaningful.


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Since unfortunately TV Fool does not list virtual channel numbers or network affiliation for translators, I used Rabbitears.com to match your results with the TV Fool chart we have been using. It appears that you are getting all of the major networks in HD as well as a couple of smaller affiliations. Also, it is not necessary to list each sub-channel separately, they are all the same data stream.
If you are getting a lock and steady signal on 9.1 (rf38) and 10.1 (rf27) that would leave the only problem as 42.1 the local ABC station.
Were you unable to get a higher reading on that channel with the antenna rotated in any direction? It may just be that you will have to rotate the antenna towards it's transmitter when viewing ABC.
I am surprised that all of the analog translators are fuzzy. Do they provide any programming that is not available digitally? Are these results with the antenna amplifier switched on or off?
That large tree does complicate matters. If you did go with a separate antenna, could you get around it within the confines of your RV lot?
Myself, being facinated with this type of thing, I would probably go for separate antennas for the translators and full power stations. The casual viewer on the other hand, would probably be content with your results with the exception of any problems you may have holding a steady signal on the above mention lower strength channels.

The reason I ask about the reception of channel 42.1 is that with a signal meter reading of 39, on most receivers that would mean at least occasional break-ups. Being that it is at the top of the TV Fool list, I certainly suspect that the antenna is just in a null for that channel at almost 90 degrees to the transmitter.
A little on-line research seems to indicate that analog 18 is just another NBC transmitter, and 44 is another religious broadcaster. However in a very unique situation channel 50 is the Weather Channel and 51 is C-SPAN, both of which are normally available only with cable or satellite.
If it were me, I would put a Winegard HD-4400 over where you have a clear shot to the translators. I would not worry about a run of 50 feet with good RG6 cable. I personally do not care much for amplifiers and would try first without one. My 4400 is fairly good about picking up from the back side and at other angles, so I would hope that it could get your channel 42 off of the back side. Otherwise, to add two UHF antennas together ( with a second dedicated to channel 42 ) gets complicated. I would also see if the 4400 will pick up channel 7 although it is not actually designed to do so. If a separate channel 7 antenna is needed I would get http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...u=716079000987 connected to the UHF antenna with one of these. http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp...-Antenna-(UVSJ)
Best of luck.

I haven't been to Alexandria for a few months to know for sure, but the last I heard, the channel 18 translator there was relaying KSAX (channel 42). Of course, being in analog, this translator won't give you HD, but neither will the originating signal on 42.1 since KSTP (which owns KSAX) doesn't have the capability to broadcast KSAX in anything other than 480i at the present time.

Yes, I now see wikipedia lists K18DG as a translator of KSAX, although I came across an on-line TV guide that had it as showing KARE. If the OP could get a good analog picture on 18 that would simplify matters as it would not be worth going to extremes to get the digital but SD version on 42.
It is a shame that the broadcasters could not coordinate and have both transmitters to the southeast of Alexandria on VHF so viewers could have a UHF antenna pointed to the northwest and VHF antenna towards the southeast combined with a simple UVSJ.