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(EDID issues) Receiver + HDMI splitter/matrix switch?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone!

I'm planning a new setup for my apartment. 3 rooms: Bedroom with a medium sized 3D LCD, kitchen with a small LCD and living room with a 55" 3D LCD & 3D projector.

I will have 5 HDMI sources: HTPC, gaming PC, PS3, XBOX and Apple TV.

I'm thinking about the best way to connect this to maintain a certain flexibility.

One possibility would be the Onkyo NR616, where I would connect all my sources. HDMI Output #1 would go to the 55" 3D LCD. Output #2 would go to a 4xHDMI splitter and to the 2TVs & Projector.

Like this:

Should I expect any trouble with HDCP handshake or 3D?

(there was a review of the Onkyo NR515 on amazon that states, that you have to connect 3D capable devices to BOTH HDMI outputs to get 3D on the secondary output... Any experience with this?)

Sorry if my questions sound naive, but I don't have that much experience with this, since my current receiver is an old Yamaha with no digital video processing.
post #2 of 15
The review is correct ... an HDMI switch will work based on the lowest common denominator of the display devices (ie. if a 2D and 3D display is connected, only 2D video will display).
post #3 of 15
You might be able force the use of 3D, but it won't work automatically unless all your displays are capable of it. The HDMI splitter and the AV receiver will merge the capabilities of all the displays to the least common denominator. This applies to other capabilities as well, it one of your displays doesn't supports resolutions higher than 720p then you'll be limited to 720p unless you force a higher resolution.

There's no fundamental reason why HDCP should be a problem.

Note that the AV receiver, regardless model or manufacturer, won't be able to output two different sources at the same time over HDMI. You'll need to run additional connections if you want to be using more than one of those five sources at the same time.
post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Oh, now that's bad! That means I have to do it completely differently, since at least the TV in the kitchen (probably Samsung UE22D5010) won't be 3D capable.

I will have to rethink this, find another solution, maybe with HDMI matrix switches... I'm thinking about omitting the kitchen TV from all this, to make it more simple.

Any ideas?

Aren't there issues with matrix switches (say 4x4) and 3D passthrough? I guess the same rules apply? (everything must be 1080p and 3D capable)
Another problem might be, that a 4x4 HDMI 1.4 matrix switch might be out of my budget...

Regarding the 2 HDMI outputs on a reciever: Is it really impossible to have two different sources routed to this outputs? Even as passthrough, when the reciever is off?
post #5 of 15
Originally Posted by MMhardKy View Post

Aren't there issues with matrix switches (say 4x4) and 3D passthrough? I guess the same rules apply? (everything must be 1080p and 3D capable)

In theory a matrix switch could dynamically generate a set of capabilities (EDID) based on only the set of displays that are connected to a given source at one time. It would be easier though just to merge all displays regardless, but in practice I don't know what matrix switches actually do.


Regarding the 2 HDMI outputs on a reciever: Is it really impossible to have two different sources routed to this outputs? Even as passthrough, when the reciever is off?

AV receivers with two HDMI outputs are effectively Nx1 HDMI switches connected to a 1:2 HDMI splitter so the two outputs must always be the same thing. Some AV receivers will allow their analogue video and HDMI video outputs to show two different things. This would require running analogue video from your sources and to your TV(s).
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks for clarification. I always thought those 8/2 Recievers worked as a matrix switch. It's a real downer, that it's just a single switch connected to a simple splitter.

Regarding true Matrix Switches and EDID... well, I don't have any expertise in this, but I just browsed some manufacturers websites, and there were no warnings about this.

I find it strange, that you buy a $500+ 4x4 3D compatible matrix switch, where a single connected 720p display will mess the whole setup up and you won't find any warnings about this.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
OK, so I have made a different cofiguration.

Regarding the HDMI matrix switches, it is indeed so, that only the higher end models let you do something about the EDID. It is really lame, that most of the manufacturers of cheaper splitters/switches don't even bother to mention this in their manuals!!!

Anyway, I was thinking about this switch at first,

This would be absolutely perfect, because of the included extenders with their own IR remote!!
BUT it seems you cannot force the EDID of one port to all other ports, like on the high-end switches, which would mean, that everything would be downgraded to the lowest possible denominator.

Still, there was this one sentence in a review:

"With this matrix, the source is downgraded to the least quality of the TV's watching a given source."

Would this mean, that if I will root, lets say, the PS3 just to the Onkyo reciever, and no other output device, the PS3 will detect the output device as a 7.1 1080p 3D capable device?
post #8 of 15
HDMI signal routing extends to all connected displays in the chain. Remove (or upgrade to 3D) TV3 in your configuration and you should be good to go.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
If I just remove TV3, there will still be the audio passthrough issue. All audio signals going to my 7.1 reciever will be just 2.0, because of the TVs I suppose.

I upgraded the scheme with model numbers.
post #10 of 15
Ah yes ... the stereo audio limitation will get you as well. Also remember ... "i before e, except after c."
post #11 of 15
Thread Starter 
"Receiver". Got it English is obviously not my first laguage

Anyway, the only solution, to mantain this kind of flexibility, would be to use a HDMI matrix switch which is capable to override/program EDID.

I've found this one for 300 eur:

In the user manual it says: "Features expert EDID technology to set up different video configurations via different EDID modes"

later on it says: "For example, to pass the EDID from Port 1 to all sources, type the following: edid port1 [Enter]"

The problem is, this is all supposed to be done via the RS232 port with a PC and the manual provides no further information about this. I have absolutely no experience with control over RS232. I hope there is some "dummy" guide for this somewhere...

Another possibility would be the Octava 4x4 switch, but it's 400 eur, which seems insane for just a HDMI switch...
post #12 of 15
To do what you desire (ie. EDID modificatino), you'll have to pay a pretty Euro. I'd give the mfr of the switch a call or email to get further RS-232 info. It's not that difficult to learn, but you do need to know the required commands to effect the changes required on the switch.
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Well, the Aten switch seems to do exactly what I need - copy the EDID from output port #1 to all 4 sources. I will have to doublecheck that, if it's true, it would be 300 eur which is still tolerable.
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
What EDID information does a 7.1 DTS-MA capable 2x HDMI OUT reciever actually pass to its sources?

Does it send "7.1 DTS-MA" for audio plus whatever video modes are available from the connected output devices?

Also, does EDID contain information about available 3D modes?

Let's say, I connect two 3D TVs to a splitter, but only one supports "checkerboard" 3D mode...
Will the source detect it as "checkerboard mode" not possible?

Do high-end recievers provide EDID management?
post #15 of 15
An AV receiver normally creates an EDID with the audio capabilities of itself plus the intersection of the video capabilities, including 3D capabilities, of the two displays its connected to. However if the receiver is configured to pass through audio through to the TV(s) then the audio capabilities will also be the lowest common denominator (eg. 2 channel PCM).

(Or at least that's the theory... it's not hard to imagine receivers taking short cuts and/or just plain getting it wrong)

As far as I know no receiver has any sort of EDID management. An alternative way to do this is to use something like the HDMI Detective which will let you record an EDID and then use it as a fake EDID. It will only work with one source at a time however. You can also force fake EDIDs on Windows with registry hacks.
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