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The "official" Yamaha RX-V673 thread. 7.2-Channel Network AVR - Page 41

post #1201 of 1888
2/17/13 at 8:11pm
The Vizio 60" I have had a problem with the lipsync you describe. It was eventually fixed with a firmware update, but the intermediate bandaid was to set the cable box to output L-PCM.

btw. I answered my own question about using the internal Processing in the 673. With it set to on there are significant delays in getting in and out of the Yammy onscreen menus. When turned off the menu system responds instantaneously. The only disadvantage I can tell is that I lose the 1080p and it reverts to the 1080i signal coming from my cable box.

I haven't looked at it with my glasses on and don't really notice a difference. How do the more experienced folks around here set this?
Edited by wader2k - 2/25/13 at 11:23am
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post #1202 of 1888
2/18/13 at 10:37am
Yeah, I briefly owned a Vizio E601i-A3 60" which suffered major Lip Sync issues. It died within the first two months and I eventually replaced it with my current 60" Panasonic GT50 Plasma.
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post #1203 of 1888
2/19/13 at 6:43am
I just got my RX-V673 set up this weekend. Works great except for one weird problem.
I have got a 5.1 set up with an old pair of a/d/s/ 300c (5 1/4" two way) speakers as the front mains and a Klipsch RW12D subwoofer. I am using "SUB 1" pre out to the sub, I set the crossover on the sub to "low pass off LFE mode"
When I run the YPAO, it sets my mains to "Large" and makes the crossover point 200Hz. Weird? I then go back and change these settings manually but isn't that messing up the recievers measurements and defeating the whole purpose of automatic set up?
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post #1204 of 1888
2/19/13 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddyknuckles View Post

...
When I run the YPAO, it sets my mains to "Large" and makes the crossover point 200Hz. Weird? I then go back and change these settings manually but isn't that messing up the recievers measurements and defeating the whole purpose of automatic set up?

If it sets mains to Large, then the crossover will be chosen according to the other speakers that it set as Small. What are the surrounds (which I assume it set to small), do you have the specs?

If you change things after running YPAO it should not invalidate the EQ settings. They were calculated for each channel independently, without assuming any particular crossover.
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post #1205 of 1888
2/19/13 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If it sets mains to Large, then the crossover will be chosen according to the other speakers that it set as Small. What are the surrounds (which I assume it set to small), do you have the specs?

If you change things after running YPAO it should not invalidate the EQ settings. They were calculated for each channel independently, without assuming any particular crossover.

OK, good to know. I didn't realize that.
The rears were set to small. They are from a Cambridge Soundworks surround package that I am slowly replacing to the set up is a bit of a mongrel right now.
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post #1206 of 1888
2/19/13 at 1:22pm
Does anyone know if the RX-V373 and RX-V473 support DTS-HD MA? The DTS icon on Yamaha's site omits the "Master Audio", however, the manuals for both list DTS-HD Master Audio as being able to be decoded. I wasn't sure if that just meant you could feed it DTS-HD MA and get sound out, or if it actually used the MA stream, and not just the core.
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post #1207 of 1888
2/19/13 at 5:50pm
Yes, even the low-end models (373 and 473) can now decode DTS-HD Master Audio.
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post #1208 of 1888
2/19/13 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yes, even the low-end models (373 and 473) can now decode DTS-HD Master Audio.

Cool. Yamaha's site is misleading then.
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post #1209 of 1888
2/19/13 at 10:37pm
Hey guys. Are there any known issues with Sony lcds and arc control?

For the most part my receiver will turn off when I turn off my tv but its not 100% of the time

I'm at a loss here. The culprits seem to be my htpc or 360. It looks Iike the ps3 is being handled but not the other two. When my pc goes to sleep and tv is still on, receiver will sometimes will stay on. With my 360, if its still on when I turn off my tv the receiver will shut down. If I turn off the 360 first, receiver will stay on after Turing off the tv

This is the first time using ARC so not sure what I should be expecting
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post #1210 of 1888
2/20/13 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyd2k View Post

Are there any known issues with Sony lcds and arc control?
For the most part my receiver will turn off when I turn off my tv but its not 100% of the time

Sorry, don't have your answer. But just to be clear it's CEC that allows HDMI devices to control each other, not ARC (that's what allows the TV to send audio back down the HDMI cable).

And many people give up on CEC eventually (because it can cause more problems than it solves) and use a universal remote that can turn all devices on and off together.
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post #1211 of 1888
2/20/13 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Sorry, don't have your answer. But just to be clear it's CEC that allows HDMI devices to control each other, not ARC (that's what allows the TV to send audio back down the HDMI cable).

And many people give up on CEC eventually (because it can cause more problems than it solves) and use a universal remote that can turn all devices on and off together.

Speaking of universal remotes and just a tad off topic... Logitech is putting their universal remote business up for sale. I have a Harmony One that works perfectly with my RX-V673. I hope whoever buys Logitech's remote business keeps supporting existing models as well as developing new ones. To me the Logitech remotes are at the very top of the food chain.
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post #1212 of 1888
2/20/13 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Speaking of universal remotes and just a tad off topic... Logitech is putting their universal remote business up for sale. I have a Harmony One that works perfectly with my RX-V673. I hope whoever buys Logitech's remote business keeps supporting existing models as well as developing new ones. To me the Logitech remotes are at the very top of the food chain.

I bought a Logitech Harmony 650, and I've probably used it a handful of times. It doesn't work correctly half the time. I've contacted Logitech about the issue, and they said they would send a "refurbished replacement." I lost my receipt so I couldn't return it. Only store credit! I only paid $20 dollars for it (on sale) so I don't really mind.
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post #1213 of 1888
2/20/13 at 8:36am
The only time I've seen HDMI-CEC work flawlessly 100% of the time was when all of the components were from the same manufacturer (in my case, Sony). In most other scenarios, a Harmony remote is just about the only way to go.
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post #1214 of 1888
2/20/13 at 3:42pm
Regarding Harmony remotes, I have had nothing but success with them and they are most useful. Can't imagine being without at this point.
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post #1215 of 1888
2/20/13 at 9:10pm
Ok thanks guys. I actually do have a harmony one as well so I guess I'll switch over to do that

And thanks for correcting me on arc. I was pretty certain that was for hdmi control



Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2
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post #1216 of 1888
2/22/13 at 12:51pm
I wonder if the $200 off $599 or more buy.com coupon is something they offer on a regular basis, or if that was a one time deal?
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post #1217 of 1888
2/22/13 at 1:24pm
New Egg has been offering $170 gift cert with this RCVR(and other Yamaha stuff) on occasion.
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post #1218 of 1888
2/23/13 at 6:50pm
There seems to be an internet radio limitation. I have actually ended up with an rx-v73 (first 673 was faulty, returned it, ordered another, then they got some 773's in stock for near the same price, ordered one of those, returned the second 673 when it came in....but I digress), but I think this probably applies to the 673 as well.

There seems to be a 1000 station limit when browsing internet radio. If you select the Pop genre, there are over 3000 stations (as listed on the vTuner website), but the unit only loads and displays 1000. The listing stops in the J's. I can't find a way around this, using the remote or the Android app. There is a bit of a blessing in this, in that my girlfriend found an all Celine Dion station on the vTuner site...

A bit of a workaround is to set up a vTuner account and bookmark stations you're interested in. However, you can't browse the stations on the receiver to find those you like (you can do so on the internet, though).

Has anyone else noticed this limitation? I'm hoping that either I'm missing something or that Yamaha will address it in a future firmware update (if they're aware of it).

Oh, and yes, I have bookmarked the Celine Dion station for the gf. I might even tell her about it.
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post #1219 of 1888
2/23/13 at 8:24pm
I am still having issues with lip sync. I am noticing it across all of my devices now. I have tried many of the suggestions given here, but no luck. I am considering taking it back and getting another Yamaha unit. V773 maybe? Does anyone know if it suffers from the same lip sync issues?
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post #1220 of 1888
2/23/13 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay77 View Post

I am still having issues with lip sync. I am noticing it across all of my devices now. I have tried many of the suggestions given here, but no luck. I am considering taking it back and getting another Yamaha unit. V773 maybe? Does anyone know if it suffers from the same lip sync issues?

The lip sync issues are not likely directly related to the receiver, and not some kind of fault with it. When watching TV there are differences across stations and even programs on the same stations.

I find it curious that you are getting audio that's later than the video, though. Often lip sync issues result from video processing taking longer than audio processing. It could be that the blue-ray signal doesn't require upconversion and so is processed faster. I'm not sure what you've tried, but here a few suggestions:

- Are you applying audio processing to the signal? If so, try Straight to reduce the audio processing. Who knows, it might reduce the time.

- Have you tried it with and without ARC? I'm surprised that audio that goes from the blue-ray to the receiver is taking longer than the video that continues on to the TV for video processing (in the case of not using ARC).

- If you do use ARC, does the TV itself have a lip sync function? I have an LG, and it has a lip sync setting. As a bonus, it can be adjusted both ways. I haven't tried it with ARC yet, but this might allow the ARC to be moved ahead. So far, I haven't need much in the way of lip sync. It actually improved when I hooked up my receiver (a 773), although I haven't been focusing on it (yet).

- Does the blue-ray player have a digital audio output? If so, connect it directly to an input on your receiver and use that as the audio input (although it may only be PCM).

Perhaps you've tried all these, I'm not sure. Just tossing out some idea. Hope you get it figured out.

When it comes to ARC, I thought the TV could pass back the full surround since it isn't outside the HDMI/HDCP loop. Perhaps not, though (HDCP is horrendous).
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post #1221 of 1888
2/24/13 at 2:20am
Thank you for taking the time to tyoe such a detailed reply.... See my answers below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkRationally View Post

The lip sync issues are not likely directly related to the receiver, and not some kind of fault with it. When watching TV there are differences across stations and even programs on the same stations. It isn't just my cable box, it is my Blu Ray player as well. I even went out and purchased a new Blu Ray player. (Sony BDP-S590) Still a lip sync issue. I did not have an issue with my previous AVR, a Pioneer unit.

I find it curious that you are getting audio that's later than the video, though. Often lip sync issues result from video processing taking longer than audio processing. It could be that the blue-ray signal doesn't require upconversion and so is processed faster. I'm not sure what you've tried, but here a few suggestions:

- Are you applying audio processing to the signal? If so, try Straight to reduce the audio processing. Who knows, it might reduce the time. I have turned off all processing.

- Have you tried it with and without ARC? I'm surprised that audio that goes from the blue-ray to the receiver is taking longer than the video that continues on to the TV for video processing (in the case of not using ARC). I am not using ARC. All of my components go to the AVR with a single HDMI cable going to the TV for video only. I am using an optical cable from the TV back to the AVR for use only when I use Pandora on my TV.

- If you do use ARC, does the TV itself have a lip sync function? I have an LG, and it has a lip sync setting. As a bonus, it can be adjusted both ways. I haven't tried it with ARC yet, but this might allow the ARC to be moved ahead. So far, I haven't need much in the way of lip sync. It actually improved when I hooked up my receiver (a 773), although I haven't been focusing on it (yet). My TV does not have Lip Sync. (UN65ES8000)

- Does the blue-ray player have a digital audio output? If so, connect it directly to an input on your receiver and use that as the audio input (although it may only be PCM). I would rather buy a different AVR than not fully use the digital output.

Perhaps you've tried all these, I'm not sure. Just tossing out some idea. Hope you get it figured out.

When it comes to ARC, I thought the TV could pass back the full surround since it isn't outside the HDMI/HDCP loop. Perhaps not, though (HDCP is horrendous).

I may end up hooking everything directly to the TV and try running the ARC back to the AVR and see if I can still get the correct audio. (DTS HD Master)

Again, THANK YOU for the reply.
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post #1222 of 1888
2/24/13 at 3:26am
Does YPAO have anything to do with time alignment, which could possibly effect the lip sync?
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post #1223 of 1888
2/24/13 at 3:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay77 View Post

Does YPAO have anything to do with time alignment, which could possibly effect the lip sync?
It does set the delay for the speakers individually but would not affect lip sync anywhere near the extremes you are experiencing.
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post #1224 of 1888
2/24/13 at 7:08am
ARC only sends PCM back to the AVR. I also tried switching all of my HDMI cables. No luck. I think I'll go pick up either a V773, A720 or an A820 and see if it makes a difference. If so, I will be returning the 673. If I hook my blu ray player up to the TV in the same HDMI port on the TV as the AVR, the delay goes away when the sound is returned to the AVR via ARC, even though it is only PCM. I'm convinced its the 673.

(That's a lot of acronyms, wow)
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post #1225 of 1888
2/24/13 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay77 View Post

Does YPAO have anything to do with time alignment, which could possibly effect the lip sync?

Do you have lipsync set to Auto? I would definitely set it to Manual (page 94 of the manual), and then set the manual delay to 0ms and see what the situation is. All the other models you mentioned behave exactly the same as the 673 when it comes to audio or video delays.

Also note that the lipsync delay is per input source, so make sure you've selected the correct source when making adjustments.
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post #1226 of 1888
2/24/13 at 10:19am
timmay77, if you're sure the blue-ray disc itself is in sync, then you appear to have a difficult problem. As far as accepting PCM, I agree it's not what you want--I suggested some options just to help diagnose the problem.

I just spent some time messing with ARC. And I am not impressed. ARC and HDMI Control appear to be linked, which is a pain in some ways. I have my TV STB connected to the receiver via HDMI, and the TV connected to the receiver via HDMI. I'm not sure how to tell whether the receiver is using the sound signal from the STB or the one coming from the TV via ARC. I used the TV's internet browser to get sound that wasn't coming from the STB, but I couldn't get any sound at all. So now I've attached an optical cable from the TV to the receiver (isn't this what ARC is meant to avoid) so I can get sound from the TV when I need it. However ARC is supposed to work, I haven't figured it out.

To get back to lip sync issues, I'm not sure what else to suggest. I don't have a blue-ray player, but I have a DVD player hooked up through a component-to-HDMI converter (sound and video) so that it uses an HDMI input. With no correction applied, there are no lip sync issues. I have tried it with the AVR's video processing both on and off and it's still in sync (I leave this off normally because the TV does it better). This is with lip sync set to auto (I should try it set to manual to see if the AVR is doing anything in this regard).

Good luck resolving the issue.
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post #1227 of 1888
2/24/13 at 10:26am
Imo ARC is just a gimmick that is overly complicated to get to work properly and adds no real value if you can get it to work all the time.
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post #1228 of 1888
2/24/13 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Do you have lipsync set to Auto? I would definitely set it to Manual (page 94 of the manual), and then set the manual delay to 0ms and see what the situation is. All the other models you mentioned behave exactly the same as the 673 when it comes to audio or video delays.

Also note that the lipsync delay is per input source, so make sure you've selected the correct source when making adjustments.

I did set the lip sync to manual for the correct input, still no help. Very frustrating!

I am aware that all of the other models use the same type of lip sync procedure, but I believe the issue is with the AV processor in my 673. I think it doesn't like my Sony Blu Ray and my Sammy TV. LOL. I am hoping if I move to another Yamaha AVR, it will have a different processor which will cure my problem. Then again, I may be completely wrong, which happens all the time! I am looking at either the RX-A720 or the A820.
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post #1229 of 1888
2/25/13 at 5:55am
Those other Yamaha models you mentioned all use the exact same audio processor (a DSP from Texas Instruments) and video processor (Yamaha's own), but I suppose there's a small chance yours is somehow stuck in a bad state and is applying a large audio delay instead of the value you set in the menu. Trying another one (even another 673) will quickly prove if that's the case or not.
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post #1230 of 1888
2/25/13 at 9:37am
If you're close, $399 at Fry's B&M only.
http://slickdeals.net/f/5872236-Yamaha-RX-V673-AV-Receiver-7-2-at-Fry-s-B-M-only-399
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