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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 423

post #12661 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjyst3 View Post

Versus trying to do a calibration myself, I decided to call in a proffesional. CHAD B!
I think you post can be very helpful to new owners. smile.gif

Thanks for posting your calibration comments. I've added a link to your post in the flat panel (post number two) lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.

If you have further comments to make about your audio or video calibration, it would be great if you could use the edit command to add them to your original post. Enjoy. smile.gif
post #12662 of 13479
I had to pay for these top quality results. "D Nice" has some pretty good free settings. cool.gif
post #12663 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Just an update, after calibrating with the Spears and Munsil equal energy patterns and the Oppo as a generator, im very happy with the results. I still see issues in low light with what appears to be a red or green push, but what Ive found is a lot of this is due to a poor source (hd compression).

I've tested by buying the same episode on Amazon VOD and watching it on my Roku 2 in HD. An issue I might see on a particular show on Dish network does not present itself with the higher quality HD streaming. This proves to me it's just general cable/sat industry continued "over" compression of HD and the VT50 not liking poor sources.

I still intend to have Chad out next trip, so he can check results with his jeti and see how he works. As far as any more self calibration Im done, I cant calibrate out compression issues smile.gif

Calibrating making you a bit wacky?
Have a Snickers.... Your not you when your Hungry...


(or in your case, trying to find that perfect IRE pattern window) biggrin.gif
post #12664 of 13479
^LOL
post #12665 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Settings are not transferable from set to set and chad prefers his settings not be shared

People expect something for nothing here never ceased to amaze me if you want professional results guess what you need to pay for them


Lol, this TV is good but not that good. I was just hoping to try out these so-called expert settings for fun. Mainly so I could remind myself why I should save my money. I have tried a dozen posted settings for the VT50 and none of them were even close in terms of the color to what I prefer. This leads me to believe that what a calibrator deems to be accurate, is not what my eyes enjoy so why spend the money?
post #12666 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Lol, this TV is good but not that good. I was just hoping to try out these so-called expert settings for fun. Mainly so I could remind myself why I should save my money. I have tried a dozen posted settings for the VT50 and none of them were even close in terms of the color to what I prefer. This leads me to believe that what a calibrator deems to be accurate, is not what my eyes enjoy so why spend the money?

The tv is capable of a reference picture with a professional calibration for your unique panel. Again you are not going to get the same results by copying settings from someone else's calibration, so why bother ?
You're obviously skeptical of professional calibration nothing I can do about that other than to say my set rocks and is virtually flawless on everything I throw at it. You can either choose to accept the pro cal review or not its up to you.
Edited by chunon - 7/6/13 at 8:55am
post #12667 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Lol, this TV is good but not that good. I was just hoping to try out these so-called expert settings for fun. Mainly so I could remind myself why I should save my money. I have tried a dozen posted settings for the VT50 and none of them were even close in terms of the color to what I prefer. This leads me to believe that what a calibrator deems to be accurate, is not what my eyes enjoy so why spend the money?

If you don't care for "accurate" than you are correct... it would be foolish to spend money on a calibration. Just keep on enjoying your idea of what your eyes enjoy... whatever that might be.
post #12668 of 13479
Its also not what the "calibrator" feels to be accurate, its a freaking standard. Same standard professional monitors are set out when mastering movies and tv. To each their own, but at least get the statement correct.

BTW, trying other settings is the worst way to form an opinion on whether you like a calibrated display...
post #12669 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

If you don't care for "accurate" than you are correct... it would be foolish to spend money on a calibration. Just keep on enjoying your idea of what your eyes enjoy... whatever that might be.

Exactly. Not sure why he is even posting here if he doesn't like an accurate panel. Lucky for him it costs him nothing to do nothing.
post #12670 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Lol, this TV is good but not that good. I was just hoping to try out these so-called expert settings for fun. Mainly so I could remind myself why I should save my money. I have tried a dozen posted settings for the VT50 and none of them were even close in terms of the color to what I prefer. This leads me to believe that what a calibrator deems to be accurate, is not what my eyes enjoy so why spend the money?
I used to feel the same way. However, when I was trying different settings I tried looking at it from a positive outlook. Each time I tried different setting I found at least one thing that truely amazed me. But after about the sixth time I decided to call "Chad B". Why not see what my UNIQUE panel could do. Lets face it there is a, "industry reference standard". The only way this standard can be achieved is with a professional calibration. I dont know what you do for a living. But for me, if I counted up the number of hours I spent researching and trying different settings plus the hours I spent critiquing each set of new settings! I lost way more money in the long run for not just having it professionally calibrated right from the get go. For that reason alone, I will always have any new panel calibrated as soon as the set is ready. Time = Money. Trolling the internet for the perfect settings = Wasted Time = Loss of Money. One again this is just "my" opinion.
post #12671 of 13479
With me, I guess I got lucky because I loved the D-Nice settings right off the bat. Like THX Cinema, except a bit more accurate and brighter. Still a bit red in my eyes, but I'm so happy with them I honestly wonder just how much better a calibration would be for me at this point. I already feel like I've tasted a bit of the wow factor of a pro calibration...I can't really justify 400 more just to get it say another few % closer if it's pretty close already to the standard. If only I had a meter of my own, I'd know for sure how close it was.

BTW, If anyone is wondering...still getting jerked around by Panasonic "customer service". They switched over and rather than play the "take more pictures" game they started playing the "We never got them" game. Of course it took them 8 days just to figure out they never got them while I had to call them several times and was told each time that they were still "working on my case" and to give them more time...I think I have finally broken through that wall, and now the latest is they need a copy of my receipt. The lady says email us your receipt...I say OK, so I can take a picture of it and send it to you? She says no, a picture won't work...but to email them the receipt. Well how can I email it to you without taking a picture of it?! It's not in digital form...it's a paper receipt for god's sake. She says "Hold on...(waiting)...ok, a picture will work" SMDH...(BTW my case is supposedly escalated and being dealt with by supervisors...) eek.gif
post #12672 of 13479
I tested D-Nice's settings on mine with my meter, vs THX Cinema. It is much brighter, which is my main complaint about THX Cinema. It was too red, but not as red as THX Cinema Warm 2 stock. Color was not as accurate though, but thats THX's strong point out of the box. The LUT's are custom and generally very accurate.
post #12673 of 13479
Omni glad the settings worked out for you but you're the exception rather than the rule and you really don't know if they are reference or not but for some that is good enough
post #12674 of 13479
And isn't about what looks good to us? We sometimes watch a movie at my neighbors. He said he calibrated it with a disc. It looks horrible to me, way to bright, over saturated, etc. but he likes it. I know "reference" is the holy grail, but we all like different things.
post #12675 of 13479
Tweaking settings with a disc is not calibration

This whole discussion is about folks expecting settings that someone else paid hundreds of dollars for to be provided free on the Internet

If you don't want a reference picture that is certainly your choice
post #12676 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

And isn't about what looks good to us? We sometimes watch a movie at my neighbors. He said he calibrated it with a disc. It looks horrible to me, way to bright, over saturated, etc. but he likes it. I know "reference" is the holy grail, but we all like different things.

Then he did something wrong. Good calibration discs like the Spears and Munsil and Disney WOW discs should at least bring Brightness/Contrast and Color/Tint to an acceptable level. A real calibration requires a combination of a disc and a meter.

Also - if you don't like 'reference', then don't spend the cash on a TV that can be calibrated to 'reference'.
post #12677 of 13479
Truly Hi Deaf?!
post #12678 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

And isn't about what looks good to us? We sometimes watch a movie at my neighbors. He said he calibrated it with a disc. It looks horrible to me, way to bright, over saturated, etc. but he likes it. I know "reference" is the holy grail, but we all like different things.

I have a brother who owns a Pioneer Kuro that is so far off that it makes me twitch. biggrin.gif What makes this stranger is that the only reason he bought it was because he saw how good my Pioneer plasma looked and it was calibrated.
post #12679 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Then he did something wrong. Good calibration discs like the Spears and Munsil and Disney WOW discs should at least bring Brightness/Contrast and Color/Tint to an acceptable level. A real calibration requires a combination of a disc and a meter.

Also - if you don't like 'reference', then don't spend the cash on a TV that can be calibrated to 'reference'.
My point was that he likes it that way, even though it's obviously way off. I never said I didn't like "reference", it just seems silly that you have to spend $400 more on your $3K display to get it to look it's best.
post #12680 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

My point was that he likes it that way, even though it's obviously way off. I never said I didn't like "reference", it just seems silly that you have to spend $400 more on your $3K display to get it to look it's best.

So why do you think that studios have to have their professional monitors calibrated? If you don`t think that is is worth the cost, then don`t do it. There are plenty of users who think like you do, thinking that it should be calibrated out of the box, or want to plug in someone else`s settings from a professional calibration to save $$. Inevitably, should they cough up $$ they are usually astounded, whether or not they used the Spears & Munsil disc.
post #12681 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

My point was that he likes it that way, even though it's obviously way off. I never said I didn't like "reference", it just seems silly that you have to spend $400 more on your $3K display to get it to look it's best.

Would you not pay to tune up your ferrari enhance it in some way to get the vey best out it ?

Calibration is a personal choice an investment that many of us feel is worthwhile it's really a small expense IMO to get the very best out if your display
post #12682 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

My point was that he likes it that way, even though it's obviously way off. I never said I didn't like "reference", it just seems silly that you have to spend $400 more on your $3K display to get it to look it's best.

PQ isnt based on price, generally. Its more tech (filters, full array back lighting), features and screen size. Granted some of those factor into better PQ, but no display, high priced or not, shows up accurate. Im in the camp that feels there is no reason to buy a VT over an ST, if you don't plan to calibrate. That's just my opinion and to each their own, just dont think price means it looks accurate, because thats not true.

I generally recommend people on a budget buy an ST over a GT or VT. If I had to choose between this VT nont calibrated, or an ST50 with calibration, Id take the ST50 every time.
post #12683 of 13479
I'm in agreement to take advantage of all the advantages of the vt it needs to be calibrated either DIY or pro. Otherwise you're not utilizing the cms 10point gamma and grayscale that's what sets apart the vt from the st when both are calibrated

It's the reason I choose the vt over the st or gt
post #12684 of 13479
IMO if you are happy with dnices settings already you'll certainly be even happier after you get his custom calibration.

If 400 is a tough budget decision in the first place then the vt50 was likely the wrong choice and you should return it.
post #12685 of 13479
BEATING A DEAD HORSE beyond recognition.

Not intended for anyone in particular. The topic which for this owners thread is somewhat applicable, especially for newcomers, but the "debate" will always be endless, sorry did not take a count of all the posts just in debating "calibration" over these 423 pages, would be interesting. I'm not naive enough to think the debate will ever end, so I just want to foolishly add my opinion to it! smile.gif

I see it this way, 5 basic choices:

1) Take your new HDTV out of the box, turn it on, and enjoy. Dig a little into the manual, or experiment with the TV's built-in settings. The VT50 has a decent "THX Cinema" mode, better then presets I've seen before. CHEAPEST CHOICE, MONEY AND TIME WISE.

2) Take advantage of some of the generously offered professional calibrators posted online "settings" for your particular model, following any instructions that may be included. You may find purchasing some additional software to install and change and manage settings a must buy. No it's not as good as the settings that will be achieved on your own individual hardware as in (choice #5). MONEY SAVING CHOICE, SOME TIME INVOLVED, SOME EDUCATION A PLUS.

3) Get a decent Blue Ray "calibration disk", Spears & Munsil for example, you'll learn a lot, and can save these settings as a "custom" preset on a VT50. Minimal cost investment, more in personal time. You'll learn a lot following a long as well. This choice will be used on your own personal HDTV, and if done properly, may come out better then (choice #2), your eyes will have to be the final judge. TINY INVESTMENT IN BR DISK, MORE EDUCATION A PLUS.

4) Learn how to do a hardware/software calibration yourself. This involves more investment in the proper calibrating tools, and of course a larger learning curve. Many enjoy this as a hobby, and like many hobbies, one can get "obsessive compulsive" at it, no harm done, unless you are married! You can also potentially become "expert" enough to even make some extra income, or for those gifted enough, a career! MORE EXPENSIVE CHOICE, BUT REUSABLE HARDWARE AND EDUCATION.

5) Break-in your HDTV, with something most agree is a minimum time of 100 hours, and have someone come over and do a "professional calibration". MORE CONVENIENT CHOICE, NO HARDWARE INVESTMENT, LESS EXPENSIVE THEN BUYING (choice #4), LESS TIME IN LEARNING THE CRAFT, CLOSET YOU HDTV WILL BE TO "REFERENCE". (unless you become your own expert in choice #4)

Any logical person can see advantages to all five basic choices, as well as downsides, all of which have been included in many posts in this very thread. Personally, I never see a reason to belittle, or berate what someone else chooses to do with their purchase, no matter how strongly I may feel on the subject myself. I'm not saying everyone here does that, some posts are very sensitive and informative. On the flip side, you do get some posts that seem disrespectful to those that enjoy the craft/hobby, their trolling can at times illicit some defensive responses by some who have chosen (choice #5) paying for a professional calibration. Some of those posts ("should be free and perfect out of the box"), come off to me as "trolling", and I understand some folks will just bite. Resist the temptation, I know it's tough, but in the end the "water shall seek it's own level". People who have a true, keen interest will pursue most choices beyond #2, and then if you truly care you can guide them further, otherwise risk wasting your own time in "debating", hey it's your time, I'll stay out of that choice.

What I attempt to consider is that in any of these "choices", people have to make their own personal decisions based on budget $$$, as well as the time they may be investing, and I can't speak for anyone else, but me.

Anyone with a bit of knowledge of film and video would find it hard to argue that the BEST results, for true "accuracy" or "reference" picture, is the professional calibration (choice #5), people offering that service, often have to travel, and have already made expensive hardware investments and have taken the time to learn the craft. With that said, I don't believe there is anything wrong with someone taking their own HDTV out of the box, and turning it on and enjoying it on whatever setting they like. Sorry, the argument that they should not have purchased that particular model if they did not want to pursue a "better" image, can be perceived as selfish or perhaps convoluted, as it's not your money, or time, you don't know if they bought it on sale, or if it were a gift. However, it is noble to educate newcomers, and new owners of a plasma HDTV, what their choices are, and leave it at that, without prejudice.

You may notice I have not mentioned what my own personal choice is, because it's not pertinent. I did not write this to sway anyone toward any of the 5 basic choices. When I immersed myself into relearning what I thought I knew about home theatre/stereo equipment several years a go, I heard a term that I liked to remind myself of from time to time. "REFERENCE versus PREFERENCE". That debate always has the same ending as well, people will do what they really want to do, regardless of the lectures.

So that's my own opinion on the "debate", now let the horse flogging continue! And don't forget to stop and enjoy the final entertainment experience, as it's really the bottom line. smile.gif
post #12686 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

5) Break-in your HDTV, with something most agree is a minimum time of 100 hours, and have someone come over and do a "professional calibration". MORE CONVENIENT CHOICE, NO HARDWARE INVESTMENT, LESS EXPENSIVE THEN BUYING (choice #4), LESS TIME IN LEARNING THE CRAFT, CLOSET YOU HDTV WILL BE TO "REFERENCE". (unless you become your own expert in choice #4)
One comment should be added here...

All calibrators and their equipment/software are not the same, nor are the resulting calibrations for your specific set identical from all calibrators.

RESULTS WILL VARY!

In other words, you might not be completely satisfied with the results of any given "metered" calibration, be it done by a professional (as in #5) or by yourself (as in #4).

In my own case for my 65VT50, having never ever had a professional calibration (for my previous Sony 34XBR960) I thought my own manual disc-based test-pattern-based "personal adjustments" to out-of-the-box CUSTOM was "great"! What a naive fool I was.

Hearing about how the 65VT50 deserved a true professional calibration to get the maximum out of its potential, I then arranged for one (very highly touted). Well, I wasn't completely thrilled with the results. Couldn't decide if it was just that the new look of the picture was so very different from what I was used to that I was "disappointed" (expecting it to be closer to my own CUSTOM setup, which was of course very different), or that the calibration itself was "off" no matter what the "after report" showed. Maybe it could get better, and I'd be more pleased.

So I arranged for a second professional calibration (again, highly touted). And since I'd purchased ControlCal I was able to load the two of them into my VT50 "side by side" for comparison with an A/B comparison (using the VT50's mode switch to go back and forth), one going into "ISF Day" and the other going into "ISF Night". Well, there was a small difference between the two, and I'd have to say there was a clear "winner". One was certainly subjectively "better" than the other to my eyes and tastes.

But to be honest NEITHER was still what I would have expected. And NEITHER was what I felt I could genuinely use for 100% of my viewing and really be "satisfied and happy".

So... I arranged for a THIRD professional calibration (once again, highly touted).

Well this time it was absolutely NIGHT AND DAY (no pun intended)!!!! Through ControlCal's capabilities, I was able to compare A/B/C. And this time not only was "C" (i.e. the third calibration) the CLEAR AND DEFINITE AND ABSOLUTE WINNER, but the picture was now STUNNINGLY PERFECT AND REALISTIC!! Using the identical BluRay movies or test patterns or test programs (from DVR, going through external input of my Oppo 103 to produce optimal upconverted 1080p HDTV picture) there was no question that "C" was producing a picture that looked GORGEOUS AND TRUE. All colors were absolutely perfect (to my expectations and tastes), contrast/brightness was also perfect, and the amazing "depth" of the image on this plasma screen was just astonishing. Had not seen this prior to this third calibration.

All in all... in took me THREE calibrations to get the job finally done "right", at least in my mind. But in the end I AM THRILLED with what I look at all the time now on the VT50 screen. It is simply absolutely gorgeous and perfect and realistic. Whether it's green grass as a golf tournament or Wimbledon, or brilliant sky blue or water blue/turquoise or fluffy cloud white as this past week's Tour de France has provided (first from Corsica and now in France), or human skin flesh tone, or white beach sand, or terra cotta track from the Olympics, or red leather judges' chairs from "The Voice", etc., every single color is absolutely like my eyes would expect it to be.

And it's obvious this is the result of the third calibration... and only the third calibration. The first two calibrations produced a DIFFERENT look, neither of which deserve the kinds of adjectives I used in the above paragraph, although they were also "professional calibrations" of the identical 65VT50 set.


Bottom line:

(1) it absolutely IS worth it to get a professional calibration done, as it is simply impossible to manually adjust your set yourself through "visual" means. You need a meter and signal generator, and proper software.

(2) every calibrator and calibration is different, even if it is for the same TV. Every one is not the same, nor is every one "perfect". But if you do get "lucky", it WILL be "perfect" to your eyes and tastes, and you WILL use the word "gorgeous" to describe what you're seeing when what's onscreen looks exactly as you'd expect it to look. And then it WILL have been worth any amount of money you paid to maximize your long-term enjoyment from this wonderful TV.
post #12687 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

So why do you think that studios have to have their professional monitors calibrated? If you don`t think that is is worth the cost, then don`t do it. There are plenty of users who think like you do, thinking that it should be calibrated out of the box, or want to plug in someone else`s settings from a professional calibration to save $$. Inevitably, should they cough up $$ they are usually astounded, whether or not they used the Spears & Munsil disc.
I know nothing about studio monitors. "Astounded?" I wonder how much of that is the "placebo effect?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Would you not pay to tune up your ferrari enhance it in some way to get the vey best out it ?
"Tune up" is an antiquated term now with modern engines. If it was running poorly, I would certainly fix it. Ferrari's run fine out of the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

PQ isnt based on price, generally. Its more tech (filters, full array back lighting), features and screen size. Granted some of those factor into better PQ, but no display, high priced or not, shows up accurate. Im in the camp that feels there is no reason to buy a VT over an ST, if you don't plan to calibrate. That's just my opinion and to each their own, just dont think price means it looks accurate, because thats not true.

I generally recommend people on a budget buy an ST over a GT or VT. If I had to choose between this VT nont calibrated, or an ST50 with calibration, Id take the ST50 every time.
The ST or GT weren't available where I was buying my set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

IMO if you are happy with dnices settings already you'll certainly be even happier after you get his custom calibration.

If 400 is a tough budget decision in the first place then the vt50 was likely the wrong choice and you should return it.

I didn't say that I couldn't afford a calibration, and I will probably get one, but again, I just think that with today's technology you should be able to buy a display that you don't need to spend more on to get it to look it's best.

And knowing that every calibrator is different, now you have to get one of the 'known" calibrators mentioned, or you may get a bad one. And, as the display ages, you have to "update" the calibration.......wow.
post #12688 of 13479
I have posted this in a couple of places without any luck. Does anyone here have any help they can give me? Thank you.

I'm sure I'm doing something very stupid, but I can't figure out what. In my old environment I had windows Vista on my PC and the Oppo 93. I played a little with DLNA and it worked fine. I used a few different DLNA servers, and they all worked. This included connecting to the Oppo as well as a PS3. I have now upgraded to a new PC with Windows 8, 64 bit. I have been trying to get DLNA back up and running. I am using Windows Media Server and Twonkey. The Oppo, the PS3 and the Panasonic VT50 can all see, and function on the internet. However, none of them see either media server. I have played with the HomeGroup function and I believe that I am sharing pictures and music. I have tested by turning off the firewall on the PC and the router. Nothing I have tried allows any of the devices to see the media servers. I am obviously missing something. Any help or direction would be appreciated. Thanks.
post #12689 of 13479
Hi Deaf, I really should have focused on the value part and not the affordability aspect, apologies.

If I were just going to fiddle with something like a Disney WoW disc and know my eyes would be satisfied with that and never crave a real calibration, then knowing what I know now (in hidsight of course), I would have been better served with the ST50 and saved the $1000+ and bought other A/V equipment/toys with it. Of course, being so in love with my picture I would never dream of doing so and am extremely pleased I took the initial risk to find out for myself.
post #12690 of 13479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Deaf View Post

And knowing that every calibrator is different, now you have to get one of the 'known" calibrators mentioned, or you may get a bad one. And, as the display ages, you have to "update" the calibration.......wow.
All true, but what you want out of your display is up to you. Campaigning to change the status quo is not likely to bear fruit in a consumer, price is everything, market.

I wonder what it would cost to reduce unit to unit differences to something like a tenth of one percent? I know, from reading a very large number of owner reports, the time it takes the best calibrators to do a given set can vary by several hours.
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