or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 430

post #12871 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

If you want a real surprise, and you're in the market for a new BluRay player and don't mind spending more than you might have planned, the Oppo BDP-103/105 players provide two external HDMI inputs... say for your cable/satellite receiver.

I have had the Oppo 103 staring at me from my amazon cart for months. At $499, it will just have to wait. The 55VT50, Sony BPD S590, Yamaha RX-V473 AVR & Energy Take Classic 5.1 ss system have set me back a bit. Hell of a setup for my small living room though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Any of the internal video processing that the Oppo would normally apply to playback from discs is also applied identically to these external HDMI inputs. And I can confirm that the Oppo does an AMAZING job of up-converting "native" 720p/1080i input HDTV content to GORGEOUS 1080p/60 for output to your HDTV.

I currently route (HDMI) my bluray player through the Yamaha receiver and HDMI out from AVR to my TV. If I were to route the cable through the OPPO, would I then keep the same setup with the OPPO routing through my AVR, or just direct from OPPO to TV?
post #12872 of 13486
I can tell you, unless you just really want it as a video processor (Its not the best out there at that), Id just save my money and keep the 590.

FYI, I have had a 93, 103, BDT220, BDT500, S5100 and S790. For blu-ray, I actually prefer my BDT500, especially since it costs 50% less. Moral of the story, is dont go buy the Oppo because you think its gonna look better.

I personally prefer the Sat/OTA signal going from the DVR, to the AVR, to the VT50. Another reason I sold the 103, and I should have kept my 93...
post #12873 of 13486
Ive been driving myself crazy the last few weeks with 1080p/24 in vs 1080p/60 in. Now that I have the Tivo, Im watching a lot more at 1080p/24 with the Amazon shows.

For 96hz mode, it looks really good, but many scenes are screwed by the false contouring
For 60hz mode, it looks good, but is funky to me at times.

Im actually leaning towards just sending the VT50 1080p/60 from the blu-ray player and tivo and being done with it. While it doesnt have as much a "real" look, I dont see all the contouring of 96hz and the double imaging stutter of 60hz mode.
post #12874 of 13486
You are my alter ego brother smile.gif I'm a set it and forget it type, we appreciate all the expermentation
post #12875 of 13486
Lol. I experiment too much.

IMO, none of the modes are perfect. 96hz can look great if you dont see flicker, but once you really start noticing the contouring it ruins it quickly. I can replay the same scene with 60hz mode and where the contouring way, its just some judder/double imaging, but Im undecided on the 24p cinema smoother tech and the frame insertion that are using. it can bug my eyes, and I see on test patterns where it does bad things, granted they are slight. I see 60hz as a better choice than 96hz, unless you can get past the contouring.

1080p/60 has no artifacts like the other two modes, but it does offer less WOW once you have seem proper 24p handling or interpolation.
post #12876 of 13486
I've been doing the same on my VT60 and have come to the same conclusions. The false contouring at 96hz just ruins the benefit of better smoothness. I am not a fan of the occasional flicker at 96hz either.
post #12877 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post


I actually prefer my BDT500, especially since it costs 50% less. Moral of the story, is dont go buy the Oppo because you think its gonna look better.

Wish I'd have known where I'd end up with my TV search (Panasonic)…I would have bought the BDT500 for compatibility.

Thanks for the advice on the Oppo. I'm still curious, but you made it a little easier to not have the extra cash.
post #12878 of 13486
Dont get me wrong, the Oppo is a great player, and it's built like a tank. But, dont blow your budget just thinking its gonna make blu-ray look different, plenty of good cheap players do fine. Oppo strength is in being an accurate universal player, but you can have some buyers remorse after dropping $500 if you arent going to use it for more than blu-ray.
post #12879 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by THeCozen1 View Post

I currently route (HDMI) my bluray player through the Yamaha receiver and HDMI out from AVR to my TV. If I were to route the cable through the OPPO, would I then keep the same setup with the OPPO routing through my AVR, or just direct from OPPO to TV?
As part of my own overall equipment upgrade centered around a 65VT50, I went from a 93 to a 103, specifically so as to get (a) external HDMI inputs for feeding DVR and "other" input through the 103 to benefit from its video processing and upconvert to 1080p which I rate as "superb" for improving 720p/1080i HDTV content, and (b) dual HDMI outputs in order to send HDMI-1 to video and HDMI-2 for decoded LPCM to external Realiser headphone audio system.

I also upgraded my Yamaha RX-V863 (analog friendly) to an RX-V867 (digital friendly), which also has dual HDMI outputs. I retained my old Sony 34XBR960 (although I never watch it any longer) and wanted to be able to view video on either the 65VT50 or 34XBR960, both fed by HDMI out from the AVR. And HDMI video into the AVR comes from several sources (one of which is the 103), so I'm sending the 103's HDMI-1 into my AVR so that I can watch it on either the VT50 or XBR960. But if I only had the VT50 and didn't have any video source not running through the 103, I'd probably just send the HDMI-1 output of the 103 direct to the 103. However I don't think there's any harm in routing the 103's output through my AVR, which has all video processing disabled so it's really just an HDMI pass-through.

I've looked at the image on the 65VT50 coming "native" 720p/1080i HDTV from the DVR vs. processed/up-converted to 1080p by the 103 (with sharpness set to +1), and in my opinion there is no contest... when watching HDTV. The 103 simply produces a stunning 1080p picture from HDTV that is far superior to what the 65VT50 itself does with "native" 720p/1080i.

That's my opinion. I guess that's what makes for horse racing.
post #12880 of 13486
Well, sharpness +1 will make a difference, but I personally did not care for the Darbee or the Oppo with +1 setting. I realize the 103 is a tad "soft" otherwise on its output as talked about by many, but Im not a fan of the sharpening affect either.

I send my VT50 native from my Tivo off OTA recordings. I've found they look excellent, a lot of the problem with the VT50 is it needs a quality source. Dish HD is a bit compressed for example, and can look rough on some channels/programs. Nothing the Oppo, DVDO, or VT50 can do about that. Crap in, crap out.

I used my Oppo with Directv and the DVR on Native, couldnt say either way. When using it with Dish I tried the sharpening +1, and it did help Dish, in a way. But for me, that was not the effect I wanted after I watched it a bit. YMMV

smile.gif

Id recommend anyone try an Oppo that hasnt, I was skeptical for years until I got a 93, and loved it. Once again, the PQ was some improvement, its just the build quality, support and knowing that it does everything accurately. A lot of these $100 players are failing tests they should not, like the 2013 Panasonics (BDT500 is a 2012). I fully imagine when their new model comes out, would probably be Oct 2014, Ill just back on board with them.
post #12881 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBJ2 View Post

Menu/Setup/Scroll down to second page/Viera Link settings/Default speakers/Theater

Hi LBJ2,

Thanks for sharing that - I'll give it a go later this evening and let you know how it goes! Sounds like it could be the solution :-)
post #12882 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Well, sharpness +1 will make a difference, but I personally did not care for the Darbee or the Oppo with +1 setting. I realize the 103 is a tad "soft" otherwise on its output as talked about by many, but Im not a fan of the sharpening affect either.

I send my VT50 native from my Tivo off OTA recordings. I've found they look excellent, a lot of the problem with the VT50 is it needs a quality source. Dish HD is a bit compressed for example, and can look rough on some channels/programs. Nothing the Oppo, DVDO, or VT50 can do about that. Crap in, crap out.

I used my Oppo with Directv and the DVR on Native, couldnt say either way. When using it with Dish I tried the sharpening +1, and it did help Dish, in a way. But for me, that was not the effect I wanted after I watched it a bit. YMMV

smile.gif

Id recommend anyone try an Oppo that hasnt, I was skeptical for years until I got a 93, and loved it. Once again, the PQ was some improvement, its just the build quality, support and knowing that it does everything accurately. A lot of these $100 players are failing tests they should not, like the 2013 Panasonics (BDT500 is a 2012). I fully imagine when their new model comes out, would probably be Oct 2014, Ill just back on board with them.

The scalers on the Tivo are pretty good, I tried out the OPPO for about a week couldn't justify the investment for a very minimal improvement in PQ of cable. As you mentioned the Bluray playback doesnt really justify the expense in my mind. How do you like the Romio ? Been a Tivo customer for quite some time beats the crap of of the Cable Company DVRs smile.gif

Also as a side note: Had to take my VT50 off the floating mount in preparation for my service call tomorrow, it is actually a pretty nice looking stand imo, a different effect for sure smile.gif
Edited by chunon - 9/17/13 at 6:07am
post #12883 of 13486
I had a S3 and Premier as well. Love the Roamio, fast, menu's look great too. The PQ on 720p. 1080i OTA and 1080p from Amazon VOD is outstanding. Im really using it to record all OTA, and dialing back Dish as I can. What cable tv shows we watch like Hell On Wheels, Im downloading to the Tivo in 1080p, and they look so darn good on the VT50. Its more costly, but I see Dish being suspended when football is not in session.

I also upgraded the drive myself to 2TB's.
post #12884 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I had a S3 and Premier as well. Love the Roamio, fast, menu's look great too. The PQ on 720p. 1080i OTA and 1080p from Amazon VOD is outstanding. Im really using it to record all OTA, and dialing back Dish as I can. What cable tv shows we watch like Hell On Wheels, Im downloading to the Tivo in 1080p, and they look so darn good on the VT50. Its more costly, but I see Dish being suspended when football is not in session.

I also upgraded the drive myself to 2TB's.

That's a large amount of storage smile.gif My Premier XL holds about 150 hours of hd havent exceeded 50 % yet but I do like the extra storage.
post #12885 of 13486
Whats nice is, tivo made the Roamio like the PS3, just open it up, swap the drive, and it does the rest. You can install up to a 3TB HDD with simple tools and 15 mins smile.gif
post #12886 of 13486
Since you have a Tivo, have you ever noticed any black crush ? I get that from time to time on my cable feed, Chad definitely thinks it is the source but I never noticed it on my ST30. Looking at my gamma curve I can see why I saw the additional shadow detail on the ST30. Just a minor annoyance really
post #12887 of 13486
Not that stands out to me. Now going from night mode to day, which has a lower gamma on the low end, it does bring out a few more details. That being said, I pretty much watch night mode all the time.
post #12888 of 13486
What's a good gamma target for day mode? 2.0?
post #12889 of 13486
He uses a custom curve.

2.2 from 20-100, but 10-20 is 2.1.

Chad B 080513 Pan 65VT50 ISF Day.pdf 1312k .pdf file
post #12890 of 13486
Mine actually has a little spike at 10 to 20, probably going up towards 2.3.
post #12891 of 13486
Hmmmm.
post #12892 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Mine actually has a little spike at 10 to 20, probably going up towards 2.3.

It shouldn't be going up. If anything, it would be going down in order to lighten shadows.
post #12893 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

It shouldn't be going up. If anything, it would be going down in order to lighten shadows.

It's a minuscule hump really based on the scale in the cal chart it might be rising to 2.22 if that in day mode, night mode is more pronounced, at any rate still really enjoying the set minus my blob issue of course.
Edited by chunon - 9/17/13 at 7:35am
post #12894 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

As part of my own overall equipment upgrade centered around a 65VT50, I went from a 93 to a 103, specifically so as to get (a) external HDMI inputs for feeding DVR and "other" input through the 103 to benefit from its video processing and upconvert to 1080p which I rate as "superb" for improving 720p/1080i HDTV content

I've looked at the image on the 65VT50 coming "native" 720p/1080i HDTV from the DVR vs. processed/up-converted to 1080p by the 103 (with sharpness set to +1), and in my opinion there is no contest... when watching HDTV. The 103 simply produces a stunning 1080p picture from HDTV that is far superior to what the 65VT50 itself does with "native" 720p/1080i.

That's my opinion. I guess that's what makes for horse racing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Well, sharpness +1 will make a difference, but I personally did not care for the Darbee or the Oppo with +1 setting. I realize the 103 is a tad "soft" otherwise on its output as talked about by many, but Im not a fan of the sharpening affect either.

Id recommend anyone try an Oppo that hasnt, I was skeptical for years until I got a 93, and loved it. Once again, the PQ was some improvement, its just the build quality, support and knowing that it does everything accurately. A lot of these $100 players are failing tests they should not, like the 2013 Panasonics (BDT500 is a 2012). I fully imagine when their new model comes out, would probably be Oct 2014, Ill just back on board with them.

I'm running Cable DVR > Oppo 103 > Denon X4000 > eeColor Processor 3D LUT > Darblet > VT50 and the Oppo does an admirable job with both SD & HD scaling.

Concerning Sharpness: The Oppo's version of Sharp enhancement is decidedly different than the normal method of adding white along dark edges. On my 103, the lowest setting up to and including +2 does nothing. At +3 dark edges are given additional black 1 pixel wide. +4 also gives a very slight visual change, and +5 to max does nothing. That sudden jolt at +3 may or may not be desirable depending on your taste. Cable/Satellite feeds are far from perfect so I suppose it doesn't hurt anything. I would never use Oppo and/or VT50 sharpening with Blu-Ray discs, however, as ALL sharpening adds content that does not exist in the original content and is not meant to be viewed that way.
post #12895 of 13486
I know on the Oppo splash screen with the logo and stars, bumping to +1 really does something funky to the stars.

Have you tested any of the VP in the Denon? They are using an Analog Devices chip I know nothing about, so I leave it all turned off in the 3313ci I have now.

My X4000 will be here tomorrow.
post #12896 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


I'm running Cable DVR > Oppo 103 > Denon X4000 > eeColor Processor 3D LUT > Darblet > VT50 and the Oppo does an admirable job with both SD & HD scaling.

Thet's the ultimate Video processing chain Buzz, you are my hero sir smile.gif
post #12897 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Thet's the ultimate Video processing chain Buzz, you are my hero sir smile.gif

Thanks. Look up tables are what I do and overkill is my middle name... biggrin.gif

The bottom line for this entire thread filled with owners is that we possess a display that is more than capable of holding its own until OLED becomes the main product on the walls of BestBuy. Even without all my "gadgets" the VT50 calibrates as well as anything on the market. It looks like I'll be building a new house soon complete with a dedicated theater. At that time I'll be hoping my wife will allow 65" of PDP delight on the master bedroom wall. rolleyes.gif
post #12898 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Thanks. Look up tables are what I do and overkill is my middle name... biggrin.gif

The bottom line for this entire thread filled with owners is that we possess a display that is more than capable of holding its own until OLED becomes the main product on the walls of BestBuy. Even without all my "gadgets" the VT50 calibrates as well as anything on the market. It looks like I'll be building a new house soon complete with a dedicated theater. At that time I'll be hoping my wife will allow 65" of PDP delight on the master bedroom wall. rolleyes.gif

Ahhh the WAF rears its ugly head smile.gif
post #12899 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Also as a side note: Had to take my VT50 off the floating mount in preparation for my service call tomorrow, it is actually a pretty nice looking stand imo, a different effect for sure smile.gif

Can you provide a manuf./model for the floating mount? Just curious.

@ DSperber - Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if it is worth routing my TWC DVR through the Yamaha RX-V473 AVR. Not sure if it would help or hurt PQ and sound.
post #12900 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by THeCozen1 View Post

@ DSperber - Thanks for the info. I'm wondering if it is worth routing my TWC DVR through the Yamaha RX-V473 AVR. Not sure if it would help or hurt PQ and sound.
Before acquiring the 103 with its two external HDMI inputs I of course was using my AVR as the "audio/video switcher", feeding my one and only 34XBR960 HDTV from video output from any of my several A/V source devices. The AVR did the audio decoding as well, with the discrete analog audio preamp outputs of the AVR feeding the discrete analog audio inputs of my Realiser headphone system. I was not using any video processing capabilities of the AVR (all set to OFF or "through"), but rather I was only using it as an A/V switcher.

Note that no AVR I know of can decode multi-channel to LPCM/HDMI as the 103 can do, which is what my Realiser's HDMI input expects. I had no other choice but to do multi-channel decoding in the AVR and feeding discrete analog audio output to the Realiser's analog audio inputs. So by using the 103 as my "A/V processor" I have now eliminated the discrete multi-channel analog feed from AVR to the Realiser, and am now using decoded LPCM/HDMI from 103 to the Realiser for all of my A/V sources. This is my audio solution.

But for video, as I mentioned earlier, since I'm no longer using my AVR as my "A/V switcher" but rather using the 103 because of its capabilities, and since I have all audio/video processing set to OFF or "through" in my RX-V867, I'm not gaining or losing anything by sending video output through the AVR or direct to my 65VT50. But because I wanted to support display on either the VT50 or XBR960, I'm routing HDMI-1 video-only from the 103 through the AVR since the second HDMI-2 audio-only output of the 103 is going directly to my Realiser for LPCM/HDMI audio.

With all of the various audio/video processing options on the AVR set to OFF or "through" I don't think there is any affect whatsoever on PQ or sound quality in this "split A/V" dual HDMI output mode of the 103 for when I want to listen to audio through my headphones.

But the real advantage (for me, anyway) of routing the HDMI-1 output from the 103 through the AVR (instead of going direct to the VT50) is that I can run the RX-V867 in "party mode" when I want to listen to audio through my 2-channel B&W stereo speakers instead of "virtual" multi-channel through the Realiser headphone system. "Party mode" on the AVR down-mixes the multi-channel inputs provided via HDMI into 2-channel stereo for delivery as L/R output to the "zone 2" speakers system... which is how I've got my two stereo speakers connected.

So by powering the Realiser off, the 103 now senses that HDMI-2 is "disabled" and in "split A/V" mode shunts the decoded multi-channel LPCM audio back over to instead being output over HDMI-1 along with video. So both video and decoded LPCM audio are now delivered to the AVR via the one HDMI input cable going from HDMI-1 on the 103 to the HDMI input on the AVR. And with the V867 now set to "party mode" I can listen to sound through my stereo speakers instead of through my headphones, if that's what I feel like doing at that moment.

This headphones or speaker audio option is thus facilitated for me by virtue of having HDMI-1 out of the 103 going to the AVR, not to mention that use of the AVR also supporting optional display on either my VT50 or XBR960. And that's why I've cabled things from my 103 this way.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread