Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 50

Just got word my TV should be shipping in little over a week. Having it broke-in for 150 hours and professionally calibrated before I get it.

I just placed an order for a 65 inch VT50 an hour ago, so that makes me an owner, no?

After reading the forums and agonizing over possible choices for months, I was finally was able to run a side-by-side-by-side comparo at Best Buy between a GT50 (VT50's are in stock, but not in this showroom), E8000, and Sharp Elite, which were arranged in a row. BB was playing The Matrix (split signal), and I set all the TV's to THX, just so there would be a standardized benchmark.

Seeing the images was a revelation after reading the reviews and closely following the VE HDTV shootout. I can't believe that the calibrators and audience spent more than ten minutes analyzing and debating the TV's.

The GT50 destroyed, and I mean DESTROYED the other sets. It's not even close. The colors looked like film. Absolutely spot-on skin tones, blacks, etc. Motion is perfect, everything uniform and crisp. I have a film editor friend who cuts on an AVID hooked up to a 60" Pioneer Kuro, which looks terrific. The GT50 is better.

Whatever color accuracy the D8000 had is no longer there in the E8000. Skin tones were cartoonishly red. Not even in the running. Samsung has really taken their eye off the ball, wasting time on a WiiTV, when Apple is about to come out with a Siri TV that will make the E8000's clumsy interface look like a bad game of charades.

And then the Elite, which I went in expecting to buy. What. Are. People. Smoking. The colors were laughably inaccurate in THX mode, which is incomprehensible at the price point. I tried another Elite in THX, a 70", which was hooked directly up to a Blu-Ray, just to make sure it wasn't the other set set or the feed or the humidity or a butterfly's wings flapping in Japan. Still, despite the KC Daylighter brightness, it looks no better than the Samsung ES8000 or Sony 929. It's a joke. The BB salespeople can't even keep a straight face about the price. Sure the Elite's blacks are Steinway black, but the monomaniacal focus on black levels seems to be missing the point, like buying a photograph for the frame. If you're watching a movie, and you're looking at the shadows rather than the actors' faces, why bother having a TV? Just paint the wall black and stare at that -- you're supposed to be watching the colors!

So, while I agree with the results of the VE shootout, it should have taken a lot less time and debate. It's pretty simple. Panasonic makes the best televisions available, hands down. I went home and bought the VT50 without a moment's hesitation.

So relieved to be a part of the right cult.

This. Even a OLED screen will not look as dark with a black screen up in a dark room. Same holds true for a CRT, even the high end ones.

That it hotspots is not an opinion. That it hotspots is a fact.

The part where you describe that as a problem is not in my post.


Don't drink the Kool-Aid though.

Nice shootout so far....bet the VT50 wins...

With so many of you now having your VT50's in your possession, my impatience waiting for mine is beginning to show a bit.

I am still waiting for a 65 incher that is being purchased from one of my best friends who is a custom audio video installer. His distributor with the best prices has not yet been able to give us an exact delivery date. And, I appear to know more about the monitor than either. Just needed to vent as I am hoping that next week will reward my patience. Meanwhile, please keep posting pictures and thoughts and certainly enjoy your new VT's!

Why would they be that worse?

Wouldn't you get the best picture by calibrating it in the space you tend to use it?

Larger panels have better blacks, which was the same situation last year (Samsung too). Based on measurements so far after ~100 hours, 60/65 panels have measured from 0.002fL - 0.0026fL. 50/55 panels have measured between 0.0049fL - 0.0053fL. D-Nice later measured a 55ST50 at 0.0026 after 268 hours, but we don't have anymore long-term data on these panels yet. We also don't have a measurement for a 50/55VT50 yet, but all signs point to them all having roughly the same black levels at the same size.

I don't think this is quite true... CRTs and Plasmas need to have something firing (a "pre-charge" in the case of Plasma) at all times in order to be "ready" to generate an image. OLED is just a transistor, as far as I'm aware. "Off" is no big deal in this case.

Yeah, I'll just have to calibrate it.

Makes me want to consider returning it for a 60GT50

The next headscratcher in my WTF Panasonic???? Saga:

11 days after I reported my tv broken on arrival i got my RA. Two issues with the RA: 1 there is a 15% restocking fee (!!!!) and I'm on my own to find a shipping company to come pick it up and take it to them.

WTF panasonic?????

That sounds... horrible. This is with the Panasonic Store? Even AVJ in HDJ (the Panasonic Employee) said to stay away from the Panasonic Store :/

It is impossible to make an accurate comparison of capabilities unless they are calibrated. By your description it is obvious that these TVs were not. They are all excellent, each having its own relative strong and weak points.

So I've had my 65" VT50 for a couple days now. Haven't performed a calibration on it yet... I'll likely get to that this weekend.

In terms of aesthetics: the biggest thing that I came to realize is that the silver trim is NOT a big deal. I was one of the most vocal anti-silver trim guys in here, and I live in a very bright condo. It's a non-issue. In fact, it looks gorgeous. I was planning on having to tape over the entire edge, but that's not going to happen. You WILL however want a small snip of electrical tape to cover up that damn red power light. That one was a surprise. I don't know what Panny is thinking there, but while I tried to ignore it, that thing WAS a big deal to me. Thankfully, the small piece of tape is very discrete and works well.

Other than that, here are the observations I posted over at HDJ:

Positives:
1. The picture is truly amazing, even before any sort of calibration.
2. The TV handles native HD content on a USB stick well. Even plays H.264 very well. Honestly it's hard to tell the difference from a Blu-Ray if the file is good enough.
3. The blacks are unbelievable. The bezel just blends into any black bars.
4. Coming from a 2011 Samsung UND8000, at this point in time, in 2012, I have no earthly idea as to why anyone would buy ANY LCD when Panasonic's 2012 Plasma line is this good, and this affordable (with the UT/ST).
5. The industrial design is beautiful. I knocked the silver trim multiple times on this forum and I take it all back.
6. Overall uniformity is fantastic. No hot spots detected with my eye.
7. No sign of any dead/stuck pixels, yet anyway.
8. No sign of the "vertical bar" off to the side of the tv... yet anyway. I really looked hard for this one in some solid color slides.
9. I live in a very bright condo (one entire wall is window), and the TV is positioned in the most reflective position possible, and it's still plenty bright enough to look great.
10. I was expecting the 96Hz mode to have a perceptive flicker, but it looks great to my eye (not 48 Hz though, see below). This was observed during the opening scenes of the Watchmen... haven't watched a full movie with it on yet. FWIW, I'm using a Panasonic BDT210 Blu Ray Player (which I LOVE).

Negatives:
1. A large white image is unimpressive, like all plasma. Hockey is.. OK. Definitely no "pulsing" or "pumping" that I could detect so far.
2. I found the DSE. It's very easy to detect in the Anti-IR scrolling bar. Not a huge deal, but it's definitely there.
3. This has bugged me way more than I thought it would: the red power light. I wish they did it like Samsung, where the red light is ON when the TV is OFF, and vice versa. Nothing that a piece of electrical tape can't fix, but it's a shame to have to do that to such a beautiful industrial design. Having a menu option to invert the light, or turn it off completely, would be amazing.
4. Buzzing. Not a big deal though, but it's definitely there. Thankfully, it's directed to the rear of the TV. My old Philips LCD "whined" with a large white background... I vastly prefer the low-frequency buzzing of the VT50.
5. While the stock image is impressive (once you get into the THX modes), it definitely warrants a calibration... the colors don't look natural. Samsung has Panasonic beat in terms of out-of-the-box experience, and I hope this doesn't result in returns by people who don't understand what calibration is, don't want to do it, or never heard of it. This also makes the Samsung Plasmas look better on the store wall. I recently read a report that Samsung actually is calibrating sets (to a certain extent) before shipment now, which would explain this. Not a negative for any of us of course, but this is something that Panasonic should think about, IMO.
6. I wish the panel brightness control was not buried in the pro menu of the custom mode. It should be in all modes. It would also be nice to see more than 3 settings (1-10 maybe?).
7. Input lag. It's definitely there, even in game mode. Updated measurements from reviewers and individuals have it somewhere around 50 ms in game mode, which higher than average. However, I'm not a hardcore console gamer, and the game mode is "good enough" for me. On the bright side, the game mode looks VERY good, versus the abysmal PQ of the Samsung UND8000 LCD in game mode. It's also nice that it's a picture mode, and not a buried setting like it was on the Samsung. But anyway- definitely not a panel for the hardcore console gamer.
8. 48 Hz mode is utterly useless. I don't know why it's even included. All it does is give off a migraine-inducing flicker.
9. Soap opera effect is on by default. Zero impact to me (or anyone in this forum) of course... but... why? My mom is the only person on the planet that I've met that likes SOE. Seriously. Just my mom.

Side Notes:
1. The 65" VT50's box is massive. Without my friend's help and his pickup truck (picked it up from Sears), there's no way I could have set this thing up.
2. My friend who helped me today is planning on buying one (or a GT) after seeing my VT50 for a few hours. He was blown away.
3. I look forward to playing with Calman and exploring the ISF modes, assuming I can figure out how to unlock them... I'm still not clear on if I can do that with a Calman DIY license.

You let me know when you see the displays you just mentioned FULLY calibrated. Perhaps then you will understand what happens at the shootout. The displays you mention are all great displays and no intelligent individual would attempt to make a conclusion regarding which is better within a 10 minute timeframe.

You also might want to ask your "film editing" friend about judging displays in BB. Better yet, take him with you next time.

D-nice measured 0.0018 on a 65" VT50, he mentioned this during the shootout.

Just an FYI regarding the THX setting on 3 different displays. Don't count on it being accurate as they usually aren't. Panasonic apparantly got it right while the others didn't.

I have a 65 VT50 and a friend of mine has a 60 ST50. Both sets measured .002 with the same i1 Display Pro (D3).
I heard D-Nice measured the 65 VT50 lower but he has MUCH better meters.

That was in 96Hz mode. 60Hz measured around 0.002 (not that it makes a difference... the difference between 0.0018 and 0.002 is negligible). I was simply just trying to compare them in like for like situations. Outside of 96Hz mode, all of the panels pretty much have the same black levels. Any differences are probably due to panel variances.

Is anyone else having issues with ARC and their VT50? I'm trying to rule out the TV or my receiver:

It seems to always work great the first time that I set it up on the TV and my Yamaha RX-A3000 receiver. However, if I turn everything on and off again, it doesn't work anymore: I get zero sound. The receiver seems to detect the ARC signal (it says "TV"). If I re-set everything up again (change channels around, disable/re-enable ARC) it works again.... until the next time I shut down.

Conversely, ARC worked great with this receiver and the Samsung UND8000 that I used to have, leading me to believe it's the VT50 . Anyone else have this problem?

Then what incentive does that give me to buy the VT50? Black level is the most important aspect of PQ so what real world difference will there be between this and say...ST50 and GT50? I'm not interested in cosmetic or BS features.

If I were to have the GT50 and VT50 both pro calibrated I'd assume they would both look identical if they have the same black levels. Is that correct? I'm sensitive to flicker so unfortunately 96hz isn't for me. I know because I try it every time and always spot flicker in clouds, whites, etc. I guess I'm an unlucky one, so I'll have to use 60hz.

First of all, I don't trust Cnet's meter (their measurements always differ from what the pros measure and they don't mention what meter they use AFAIK). Second, it's possible that Cnet aged their UT50 longer than 100 hours. If D-Nice's measurements of the 55ST50 are anything to go by, the black levels significantly drop after 100 hours. But we were told by avj that they might settle around the initial measurement. Again, we gotta wait until we get more long-term data.

FWIW, last year the gap between small/large panels was ~0.002fL IIRC.

Between the ST50 and GT50 after calibration, virtually none. The advantages of the GT50 are mostly for cosmetics or additional features. Between the ST/GT and VT50, the colors will be noticeably more accurate, but nothing dramatic. Reason being that the VT50 has a CMS and 10pt white balance whereas the ST/GT only have a 2pt and no CMS.

Just got my TV last week and have been watching it on the THX setting. I am new to all of this calibration stuff. I assume you cant just clone calibration settings from on panel to another do to variances in panels,etc and thats the point of individual calibrations based on environments, etc... i do have a couple questions...

1: is the calman entry level kit worth it? and what would professional give me over that?

2. when you calibrate do you do it in normal light and lights off?

3.how many hours should you wait to do one?

Thanks.... This TV is off the charts. I laughed reading through these posts at how hardcore some of you are. At times i think people really start to over analyze stuff so much! Just go with it and enjoy the TV. With that said maybe i will become that way to so teach me LOL...

Oh I thought the GT had a 10pt white balance. Well then.. I guess there would be a difference. If only the price of the 65" wasn't such a jump.

Great review Tempest, both pros and cons! Thanks for posting.

Yup, EPP. Sad Panda.

Yikes. That was what I was afraid of.

I don't know if this will help, but getting in touch with your credit card company may be a good way to go. My Dad had hip surgery, and he had a 60" Samsung DLP delivered from Newegg a few years ago. I was going to visit the following weekend, so he was just going to wait for me to help him set it up. It was raining, and the delivery guy rushed it into the garage and discretely put it up against the wall. My Dad, being physically unable to open and inspect the box, signed the forms and the delivery guy left.

When I arrived, I discovered a giant puncture mark in the box where he put it up against the wall, as if a fork-lift had driven into it at full speed. When I opened the box, sure enough, the front end of the TV was entirely pierced by whatever hit it. The television was completely destroyed.

My Dad called Newegg, and they refused to accept responsibility, and the shipper refused to accept responsibility. My Dad then called his credit card (American Express). They called Newegg, and after that, Newegg changed their tune 100%. They took back the TV, gave my Dad a full refund, and all was fine... except Newegg put my Dad on a "blacklist" of sorts, so he can't order anything from them, which is 100% fine by him after that experience.

So in short, give your credit card company a call. What the Panny store is doing here is unacceptable.

What? Almost every review has it around 24ms.

At 50ms, it would be almost impossible to play a game.

Edit: Only the AVForums review is stating such a high input lag based on their new lag testing tool when everybody using the traditional method has reported a lag of 24ms. I have some serious doubts about this new tester because those are drastically higher numbers. Especially when their original review talked about how it was a great TV for gaming and the lag was unperceivable for them from the same guy who gave it a 24ms input lag result months ago in his first review of the TV. That honestly leaves me a bit skeptical. I think I'd rather take HDTVtest's word let alone FlatPanelsHD who actually uses a PS3 a lot in their testing of TV's.