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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 89

post #2641 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:20pm
Hi guys, been out of the scene for almost a year now. (wife had a baby). And boy has it it taken a toll on my home theater needs smile.gif. Anyways, still don't have time to read through all the threads, but was just wondering if this years flag-ship Panasonic's finally bested the 9G Pioneers in black level, processing and color. Thanks for the info!
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post #2642 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

but was just wondering if this years flag-ship Panasonic's finally bested the 9G Pioneers in black level, processing and color.
No.
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post #2643 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:31pm
Just got off the phone with amazon so they could exchange my 65 Vt50 for a new one due to IR.The logo for NBC is on the right hand corner of screen and doesn't go away.I tried the scrolling bars wipe,pixel flipper from WOW disc and the slides but it's still present on light scenes,very disappointed.Hopefully the new panel will be ok.
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post #2644 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:38pm
FYI, we have looked at a few line conditioners for our Samsung plasmas and they have absolutely no effect on audible noise from the panel. I run mine on a dedicated isolation transformer with integrated series mode surge protection which has been designed for line noise filtration (big $$$), and I still have the same audible buzz.
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post #2645 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

So, chances are that there will be better blacks on the 60ST50 v. the 55VT50- the 60"+ models have deeper blacks than the smaller panels, VT50 included. It seems that the ST50 calibrates extremely well, so it's close to the VT50, but it can't hit 2.4 gamma, which may or may not matter to you. Both sets supposedly look very similar from some talk on the forums. The 65VT50 would probably be the best set, but it'll lose out slightly on blacks at 55".
Going from an ST30 to a 500m Kuro, I saw maybe a 20% difference on content- with blacks being superior. The ST30 was able to be decently accurate in it's picture settings and I got more contrast/light output from it in custom mode v. the 500m's most accurate mode 'pure'. The black level difference is even closer here and I'm guessing you'll save a few hundred on the ST for 5 more inches of screen.
With even more dynamic range on the Panasonics this year, the ST50 is a winner at any size, but especially 60"+ sizes. Get it smile.gif

I think most of my confusion lies in what can *I* do without going into the service menus. If I get a calibration blu-ray and only use the controls offered to me as a consumer, can I come close (with an ST50) to VT50 quality that I could get using the calibration software? I think I may be misunderstanding what people actually mean by calibration. As I understand it, when I see calibration, I think of having to go into the service menus and messing with stuff I shouldn't be messing with. Please let me know if that's not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Negative. The same.

Hello D-nice, I know you're a busy man, but I'd appreciate any advice you'd have for me in my dilemma as essentially outlined above.

Thanks you two smile.gif
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post #2646 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:52pm
I've tried 2 different tv calibration disks, and I still haven't been able to get past adjusting the brightness and contrast correctly. I don't try very often, but occasionally get the bug to try again. The instructions with these just seem awful. After doing it, I still don't know if I have it correct, or not. It seems adjusting contrast messes up my brightness setting, and visa-versa.

I have a calibrator coming over this Sunday.
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post #2647 of 12310
6/15/12 at 12:56pm
It is not hard to setup Contrast and Brightness on these displays. Pick a Contrast setting that your eye can handle, That's it. Nothing more. Setup the brightness control after that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

I've tried 2 different tv calibration disks, and I still haven't been able to get past adjusting the brightness and contrast correctly. I don't try very often, but occasionally get the bug to try again. The instructions with these just seem awful. After doing it, I still don't know if I have it correct, or not. It seems adjusting contrast messes up my brightness setting, and visa-versa.
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post #2648 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It is not hard to setup Contrast and Brightness on these displays. Pick a Contrast setting that your eye can handle, That's it. Nothing more. Setup the brightness control after that.

That makes it sound easy. Nothing at all like the instructions that come with the discs. They have you start with the Brightness, then work with contrast, both using some pattern. Then say to work back and forth until it's perfect, etc. Always confused me to no end.
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post #2649 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmd1 View Post

Just got off the phone with amazon so they could exchange my 65 Vt50 for a new one due to IR.The logo for NBC is on the right hand corner of screen and doesn't go away.I tried the scrolling bars wipe,pixel flipper from WOW disc and the slides but it's still present on light scenes,very disappointed.Hopefully the new panel will be ok.
How long was NBC on and how many hours of "washing" were done after? I saw a report on cnet about IR and the VT50 retained it where as a Samsung they tested did not. The GT (I think) was the worst as they could not get IR removed from 10hrs of a static menu screen using 72 straight hours of break in slides:eek:

I think amazon has 30 day return policy and while I don't intent to abuse my display if I have any IR after 2-3 weeks of mixed content, gaming, movies, etc. it will go back and I'll probably get an Elite. IR has not been a problem for me after 3+ years with my Panny but I will not deal with this if for some reason the 2012's mitigate IR worse than my 2008.
Edited by General Kenobi - 6/15/12 at 1:20pm
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post #2650 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:24pm
I know, I know. The instructions suck and need to be updated on many of those discs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

That makes it sound easy. Nothing at all like the instructions that come with the discs. They have you start with the Brightness, then work with contrast, both using some pattern. Then say to work back and forth until it's perfect, etc. Always confused me to no end.
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post #2651 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No.

lol, seriously? Dang, maybe next year. It's got to be real close I'm guessing based off the few things I've read? Was the biggest positive on this years Panny to get rid of the ABL? Thanks.
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post #2652 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:48pm
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Originally Posted by NateDoggg View Post

So I went to BB to look at ALL the TVs. Now that I've had an LED for about a week, I can see an absolute difference between plasma. Walking in a store, LEDs are brighter and catch your attention quicker. However, spending 1 hour in the Magnolia Center made it easy for me to sway towards plasma.
Now, I looked at ALL the plasmas they had. At first, noticed very slight differences. But, again, after spending an hour inside there, the differences started to become more and more. In my opinion, the 65VT50 was BY FAR the deepest, richest picture over all the other Panasonics, all the Samsungs, and any of the other plasmas there. Also, noticed the VT had less glare than the other plasmas, which is important for me.
I stuck my head to the back and didn't hear any buzzing. When I asked the sales guy, he said it the PERSON'S house that will or will not cause buzzing because the buzzing happens when there is a bunch of crap in the electrical exchange. He said all the TVs there are hooked up to Line Conditioners which filter/clean out the whole process and eliminate any noise. I thought that was very interesting. So, where the DLP's noise is actually coming from a fan or color wheel, the plasma noise comes from certain current disruption or "dirtiness". Does that make sense to any of you who know about these plasmas?
I have a Tripp Lite UPS - need to see if line conditioning is part of it. But, for those that have had some buzzing with your plasmas, it might be worth a look to buy a Line Conditioner to test out - unless it's total ******** and I was being scammed - which is entirely possible.
I didn't buy the TV yet (largely because of the price) - I need to work my way up to plunking down that type of cash...but when a really good deal pops up, I may have to jump on it.

He was blowing smoke up your tail pipe. The buzzing is in no way created in this way. Never listen to the short bus kids at these stores. They will be very confident in themselves, but they should be flipping burgers. They buzz in the store and they buzz at home..... period. It is just a matter of how loud and if you find it acceptable. I can't wait until all of the b+m stores go out of business unless they are mom and pop.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 6/15/12 at 1:56pm
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post #2653 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:50pm
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post #2654 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

Hi guys, been out of the scene for almost a year now. (wife had a baby). And boy has it it taken a toll on my home theater needs smile.gif. Anyways, still don't have time to read through all the threads, but was just wondering if this years flag-ship Panasonic's finally bested the 9G Pioneers in black level, processing and color. Thanks for the info!

Read the whole thread first. All questions answered multiple times. And yes, in several situations they are matched or adequately comparable in black levels. Just not all.
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post #2655 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

FYI, we have looked at a few line conditioners for our Samsung plasmas and they have absolutely no effect on audible noise from the panel. I run mine on a dedicated isolation transformer with integrated series mode surge protection which has been designed for line noise filtration (big $$$), and I still have the same audible buzz.

Plasmas buzz no matter how much money you through at them. Replace it and you may get less buzz.
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post #2656 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

That makes it sound easy. Nothing at all like the instructions that come with the discs. They have you start with the Brightness, then work with contrast, both using some pattern. Then say to work back and forth until it's perfect, etc. Always confused me to no end.

I threw in the Disney wow disk with custom mode. I went to 80 contrast and 54 brightness and I was seeing exactly what I was supposed to see. A crude Cal in about 3 minutes. Have not looked back.
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post #2657 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Plasmas buzz no matter how much money you through at them. Replace it and you may get less buzz.

Maybe it's my hearing. I have both a PND8000 and a VT50. I haven't put up a 100% white field pattern on either of them however and I'm leaving in an hour for a few days of fishing in Canada. When I get back I'll try it on the VT50. I never hear buzzing with normal content.
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post #2658 of 12310
6/15/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

How long was NBC on and how many hours of "washing" were done after? I saw a report on cnet about IR and the VT50 retained it where as a Samsung they tested did not. The GT (I think) was the worst as they could not get IR removed from 10hrs of a static menu screen using 72 straight hours of break in slides:eek:
I think amazon has 30 day return policy and while I don't intent to abuse my display if I have any IR after 2-3 weeks of mixed content, gaming, movies, etc. it will go back and I'll probably get an Elite. IR has not been a problem for me after 3+ years with my Panny but I will not deal with this if for some reason the 2012's mitigate IR worse than my 2008.

Break in slides do absolutely nothing to remove IR. Content or pixel flipper only to remove IR.

Break in slides do not remove IR.

Break in slides do not remove IR.

tongue.gif
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post #2659 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I threw in the Disney wow disk with custom mode. I went to 80 contrast and 54 brightness and I was seeing exactly what I was supposed to see. A crude Cal in about 3 minutes. Have not looked back.

I haven't tried that disc yet. But getting it professionally calibrated this week-end anyway.

Here's what I want calibrated, but will have to wait to see what I end up with.
1) THX cinema mode, or similar, for dark room viewing.
2) THX bright room mode, or similar, for bright room viewing.
3) A 3D mode that 's bright enough to use with the darkening glasses.

The TV has a THX 3D cinema mode, but I find this way to dim to be useable for most movies. So, I've been using Vivid mode for 3D viewing instead, getting good results. THX 3D cinema works with "Under the Sea 3D" and with "Puss in Boots 3D", but it doesn't work well with "Thor 3D" and "Polar Express 3D".

My calibrator says that he has the equipment required to calibrate 3D. Not all calibrators do.
Edited by CatBrat - 6/15/12 at 2:16pm
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post #2660 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:04pm
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I promise you the line conditioner story is garbage. There is nothing to it. We tried all this nonsense several years ago and it proved a whole lot of nothing.
I have some slight history of shaky power issues in the home so I run everything through a surge suppressor for that protection against spikes. I'd be a good candidate for a line conditioner if I thought it had any chance of helping. I do not.
I should add that I could probably use a really good surge suppressor and if this wasn't a Monster-branded gimmick and was sub $100, I might just get one. But at $200, I'm not interested.
Finally, forgive my skepticism, but are there really people who have VT50s that make no sound at all on a full-white screen? Really?

Yup they all buzz. Some of us just never ever ever hear it unless volume is ridiculously low. My VT50 buzzes exactly like my kuro did and the panny before it. I do believe for sure that it is luck of the draw. We have seen several ppl exchange for buzzing and swear that the next set buzzed less than the previous. It is possible that it is a matter of Kung fu mind tricks going on here.
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post #2661 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Plasmas buzz no matter how much money you through at them. Replace it and you may get less buzz.

This blanket statement is very tired - sorry, but this isn't quite accurate in my experience. I am more sensitive than others to the Samsung noise, and I am also absolutely certain there are units that are relatively quiet, because I've seen them. Yes, all will make at least a tiny bit of noise, but there is a threshold where it becomes annoying. BTW, all the Panasonics I've heard have been pretty much silent as well (although I don't think I saw any bright full field images on them).

Oh, and no worries, I didn't buy a line conditioner (Torus BX5) for my plasma. I was just blessed with some good fortune, because I would never buy such a thing. That said, it does offer what many experts seem to think is amongst the best quality POU surge supression available (but should always be used in conjunction with a house unit).
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post #2662 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

This blanket statement is very tired - sorry, but this isn't quite accurate in my experience. I am more sensitive than others to the Samsung noise, and I am also absolutely certain there are units that are relatively quiet, because I've seen them. Yes, all will make at least a tiny bit of noise, but there is a threshold where it becomes annoying. BTW, all the Panasonics I've heard have been pretty much silent as well (although I don't think I saw any bright full field images on them).
Oh, and no worries, I didn't buy a line conditioner (Torus BX5) for my plasma. I was just blessed with some good fortune, because I would never buy such a thing. That said, it does offer what many experts seem to think is amongst the best quality POU surge supression available (but should always be used in conjunction with a house unit).

No worries. We can agree to disagree even though after reading your statement it sounds like we agree. wink.gif They all emanate some level of an audible frequency based on the content being displayed. Some may be quite faint and some may not be but they all do. I agree, it is a tired statement that I am tired of making. But it is also true. You show me a example that proves otherwise and I will be happy to stand corrected.

You flip through the colored slides with ANY plasma and you will hear the different frequency pitches assuming the environment is a quiet one.

And we definitely have many examples of people that have exchanged sets that maintain the buzzing either increased or decreased. So there clearly are differences between the production models.

This could simply be the result of a transformer that was not wound exactly right or wound tighter or was not coated properly. I can build ten transformers by hand and each one will have unique traits even though they may all meet spec to be sold.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 6/15/12 at 2:18pm
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post #2663 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:12pm
You will never, ever see a PDP without an ABL circuit. The VT50 has reference color just like the Pioneer. Its just not there with the black levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PioBeer View Post

lol, seriously? Dang, maybe next year. It's got to be real close I'm guessing based off the few things I've read? Was the biggest positive on this years Panny to get rid of the ABL? Thanks.
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post #2664 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:14pm
You will get a far better calibration via the ISF modes on the VT50. Get ISF-Day/ISF-Night 2D done as well as ISF-Day 3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

I haven't tried that disc yet. But getting it professionally calibrated this week-end anyway.
Here's what I want calibrated, but will have to wait to see what I end up with.
1) THX cinema mode, or similar, for dark room viewing.
2) THX bright room mode, or similar, for bright room viewing.
3) A 3D mode that 's bright enough to use with the darkening glasses.
The TV has a THX 3D cinema mode, but I find this way to dim to be useable for most movies. So, I've been using Vivid mode for 3D viewing instead, getting good results. THX 3D cinema works with "Under the Sea 3D" and with "Puss in Boots 3D", but it doesn't work well with "Thor 3D" and "Polar Express 3D".
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post #2665 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

This blanket statement is very tired - sorry, but this isn't quite accurate in my experience.
Actually it is 100% correct. Every single plasma ever made buzzes. It is 100% inherent to the tech. Wheather or not you personally hear it would be dependent on your hearing capabilities and room size and acoustics.
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post #2666 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Break in slides do absolutely nothing to remove IR. Content or pixel flipper only to remove IR.
Break in slides do not remove IR.
Break in slides do not remove IR.
tongue.gif
So what are you saying?tongue.gif

Seems to be a common theme that plasma owners should:
A. Keep contrast and brightness down first 100-200 hrs w/ varied content.
B. "Wash" IR with break in slides or mixed content.

In my limited experience with my current panel the above has served me well.
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post #2667 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

You will get a far better calibration via the ISF modes on the VT50. Get ISF-Day/ISF-Night 2D done as well as ISF-Day 3D.

Ok. My understanding of what was available didn't go that far. But, I'm hopeful the calibrator will know what I mean. I'll use the ISF designation instead of the THX.
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post #2668 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Seems to be a common theme that plasma owners should:
A. Keep contrast and brightness down first 100-200 hrs w/ varied content.
Negative.
Quote:
B. "Wash" IR with break in slides or mixed content.
In my limited experience with my current panel the above has served me well.
Just use mixed content.
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post #2669 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

So what are you saying?tongue.gif
Seems to be a common theme that plasma owners should:
A. Keep contrast and brightness down first 100-200 hrs w/ varied content.
B. "Wash" IR with break in slides or mixed content.
In my limited experience with my current panel the above has served me well.

You will never be told to use slides to remove ir. Breakin slides are for breaking in the panel, period. Think about it this way. If you look at your ir while running the slides, you will see that the ir is flashing exactly the same each time. You are simply baking the ir in as far as I am concerned. You are maintaining that exact image over and over again. Now start a pixel flipper or mixed content for that matter. In this case, every pixel involved within the area of the ir is being given it own unique workout independent from the surrounding pixels. This random aging of the pixels will allow the offending pixels involved with the ir to hopefully slowly blend in better with the surrounding pixels.

I am sure D can correct me if I am off base here.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 6/15/12 at 2:34pm
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post #2670 of 12310
6/15/12 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Just use mixed content.

Or what D said ^^^^^^^^ biggrin.gif
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