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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 119

post #3541 of 13486
Can anyone comment why there is no Vudu on the TV but it is on the Panny bluray players?
post #3542 of 13486
^^^

I believe there is, have you gone into Viera store (or whatever its name is) to see if it's available?

FYI, because I cannot select either THX picture mode by accessing apps on the TV, I use my BDT-320 for all streaming services.
post #3543 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ss10zidane View Post

is it bad to start the slides after you already had the tv for about 2 weeks?

If you have been using the set for two weeks then running the slides is of no benefit.
post #3544 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Can anyone comment why there is no Vudu on the TV but it is on the Panny bluray players?

It's definitely in the Viera Store (middle bottom option on the first page of Viera Connect.



On another note, I just spent most of the day both yesterday and today reading this thread since I purchased a 55VT50 which arrived on Monday for my birthday, hooray! So far I've been extremely pleased with it though I haven't watched much content yet. Baraka looked amazing when compared to my AE3000u projector downstairs, and NIN: Beside you in Time and the Elton John 60 at Madison Square Garden really brough out the shadow details and the texture to dark clothing that I'd never seen before. Having an excellent picture, even at extreme viewing angles, with deep blacks and no color shift is phemomenal when I'm used to a 5 year old 42" Sharp Aquos LCD. This is my first plasma, so maybe I'll be easy to please. I'm afraid I'll be a black-level snob soon if not already. wink.gif

I'm looking forward to seeing Dewayne's settings and will try out Topper's custom settings in the meantime. I've basically used the out of the box THX Bright Room and Cinema modes thus far with no adjustments and am extremely pleased. I haven't noticed any buzz, and the 1/4" gap between the bezel and first pizels hasn't bothered me at all. In fact, I had my HTPC outputting to it over HDMI for 30 minutes with 1" of extra overscan before I even noticed it, it blended into the bezel so well. I'm going to be careful to play full 17:9 content on it without logos for a while...

Thanks for all of the advice guys, I'll be back with more thoughts and opinions down the line.
post #3545 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

ARC is hdmi 2 on the tv.

I want to officially be the 4th post to to say that ARC is HDMI 2 as specified within the original question. Your turn Rogo..... tongue.gif

And yeah, I happen to run everything through my receiver as it makes things quite neat. But like what JimP said, just make sure your receiver is not manipulating your picture at all. Your receiver manual will tell you if it does/can or not. My VX671 does not screw with the picture via HDMI and makes for an exellent HDMI switcher. Mine only upscales component video to 1080P. And using HDMI 2 allows anything emenating from the TV to be played through your receiver assuming it and your HDMI cables are HDMI 1.4a /ARC compliant.

The only slight downside to running all of your equipment through one cable is the inability to setup seperate custom picture modes for each piece of equipment. I really do not care about this but some people may like/need unique picture settings based on the source.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 6/27/12 at 12:15pm
post #3546 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I want to officially be the 4th post to to say that ARC is HDMI 2 as specified within the original question. Your turn Rogo..... tongue.gif
And yeah, I happen to run everything through my receiver as it makes things quite neat. But like what JimP said, just make sure your receiver is not manipulating your picture at all. My VX671 does not screw with the picture via HDMI and makes for an exellent HDMI switcher. And using HDMI 2 allows anything emenating from the TV to be played through your receiver assuming it and your HDMI cables are HDMI 1.4a /ARC compliant.

I want to say I'm actually fairly unclear on what you're supposed to do with the fact that HDMI 2 is ARC. Can you run a single cable from the receiver to HDMI 2 and just leave it at that, ARC-ing when you want to, playing content from your receiver otherwise? (Even though that cable would be feeding an output side of the receiver.) Or do you have to run it into an input in the receiver (seems unlikely, but it's about as clear as mud to me...) It's taking me days to get everything set up because I moved all my components around and my Harmony no longer works satisfactorily. The main DVR is out of reach, will work with the Harmony repeater, but then only if I bounce the signal; if I direct point it, flooding seems to occur. Thinking about a Harmony 900, not sure that will make it much better though.... Sorry to ramble.
post #3547 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyjake View Post

I sit about 15' back from the tv so no I don't see the gaps. I have about a 1/4" gap all the way around between the image & border bezel. I personally feel that it's a poor design on Panasonic's part. The black border should meet the image like every other TV made including laptops.
I wish I didn't see the flicker and dithering!!! I'd be a happy camper otherwise. I can't stand it...

I have contacted Amazon about exchanging the set. I wonder if they will offer money off instead (they tend to offer me this). If that is the case, I would probably entertain it
post #3548 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I want to say I'm actually fairly unclear on what you're supposed to do with the fact that HDMI 2 is ARC. Can you run a single cable from the receiver to HDMI 2 and just leave it at that, ARC-ing when you want to, playing content from your receiver otherwise? (Even though that cable would be feeding an output side of the receiver.) Or do you have to run it into an input in the receiver (seems unlikely, but it's about as clear as mud to me...) It's taking me days to get everything set up because I moved all my components around and my Harmony no longer works satisfactorily. The main DVR is out of reach, will work with the Harmony repeater, but then only if I bounce the signal; if I direct point it, flooding seems to occur. Thinking about a Harmony 900, not sure that will make it much better though.... Sorry to ramble.

Hi Rogo, your assumption is correct. If both devices (receiver and display) are set with HDMI ARC on then you can view that HDMI cable as 2-way (sending video from the receiver to the display, and sending audio from the display to the receiver for playback on your speakers). For example, if using Netflix with a built-in app on the display the audio would be returned to the receiver via ARC, otherwise you are limited to TV speakers only. This would also apply to any other inputs used on the TV, a Roku connected to HDMI 3, the TV tuner, etc. You can also use a digital optical cable, which I have chosen to do because a) HDMI ARC is flaky and b) with HDMI ARC on this means that control functions can also pass - if I turn on my receiver my display turns on, if I turn on my display my receiver turns on,etc. and IMO this is a PITA.
post #3549 of 13486
Topper - so far the Panny is smoking my Sharp for PQ. Watched segments of Star Wars Ep 2 and 3 as well as X-Men 1 and 2 segments.

Having slight issue with Cable - picture on Panny is shaking up and down through Cable. Isn't on my Sharp. But, BR not shaking on my Panny so it's not the screen.

BTW, I like your settings so far. We actually had it standard to start with (which also looked pretty good). Yours were a little better. I think it would be difficult to make this picture look BAD, unless you really tried to screw everything up.

But, if you have a suggestion on the shaking issue let me know - I have connected straight from Cable box to HDMI 1. I might try running through Receiver a little later if you don't have another suggestion.

Oh, also, since I just watched about 1 hr worth of BR Widescreen, you think it's worthwhile running the Scrolling Bar for a bit? Or am I being TOO cautious? Thanks buddy!
post #3550 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by archyman View Post

After reading this thread for a long period.
I try to concluded into the setting below.
movie source - 1080p - 23.9fps
HD player - 24p mode on ( or maybe auto?)
VT50 - 24p mode + 96hz ( or 60Hz ?? which is better?)
In 3D movie
VT50 - 24p mode + 48Hz ( to reduce crosstalk)
Is these ok? any recommend ?
smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

24p and 96hz is better, however some have reported flickering when using 96hz. If that is the case for you, then use 60hz.
This is true for 2D. For 3D, apparently 60Hz has significant crosstalk where 48Hz removes it almost completely. Flicker at 48Hz seems to be less noticeable in 3D. I dunno if 96Hz has crosstalk, but Cnet recommends 48Hz for 3D, so I imagine they tested 96Hz as well. I don't have a VT50 so I can't compare.
post #3551 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateDoggg View Post

Topper - so far the Panny is smoking my Sharp for PQ. Watched segments of Star Wars Ep 2 and 3 as well as X-Men 1 and 2 segments.

Having slight issue with Cable - picture on Panny is shaking up and down through Cable. Isn't on my Sharp. But, BR not shaking on my Panny so it's not the screen.

BTW, I like your settings so far. We actually had it standard to start with (which also looked pretty good). Yours were a little better. I think it would be difficult to make this picture look BAD, unless you really tried to screw everything up.

But, if you have a suggestion on the shaking issue let me know - I have connected straight from Cable box to HDMI 1. I might try running through Receiver a little later if you don't have another suggestion.

Oh, also, since I just watched about 1 hr worth of BR Widescreen, you think it's worthwhile running the Scrolling Bar for a bit? Or am I being TOO cautious? Thanks buddy!

Nice Nate, nice to finally hear you enjoying your set a little. I would have ot think that your sharp has some sort of 120hz or motion smoothing gimmick enabled similar to Motion Smoother on the Panny. Either disable this function on the Sharp or try a higher setting of Motion Smoother on the Panny just as a test. Setting Motion Smoother to weak results in very minimal SOE. I honestly notice no difference between the Weak setting and Off. But if you set it to Medium or High, you will see motion become much smoother but the downside is that it will also look very synthetic and unnatural. Let me know how that works out.

FYI You should see a big difference between my (or wmkillers) settings and Standard Mode. Try it at night and you should def see what I mean. Standard mode is dull and dim IMO.

Peace
post #3552 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I want to say I'm actually fairly unclear on what you're supposed to do with the fact that HDMI 2 is ARC. Can you run a single cable from the receiver to HDMI 2 and just leave it at that, ARC-ing when you want to, playing content from your receiver otherwise? (Even though that cable would be feeding an output side of the receiver.) Or do you have to run it into an input in the receiver (seems unlikely, but it's about as clear as mud to me...) It's taking me days to get everything set up because I moved all my components around and my Harmony no longer works satisfactorily. The main DVR is out of reach, will work with the Harmony repeater, but then only if I bounce the signal; if I direct point it, flooding seems to occur. Thinking about a Harmony 900, not sure that will make it much better though.... Sorry to ramble.

Hi Rogo, your assumption is correct. If both devices (receiver and display) are set with HDMI ARC on then you can view that HDMI cable as 2-way (sending video from the receiver to the display, and sending audio from the display to the receiver for playback on your speakers). For example, if using Netflix with a built-in app on the display the audio would be returned to the receiver via ARC, otherwise you are limited to TV speakers only. This would also apply to any other inputs used on the TV, a Roku connected to HDMI 3, the TV tuner, etc. You can also use a digital optical cable, which I have chosen to do because a) HDMI ARC is flaky and b) with HDMI ARC on this means that control functions can also pass - if I turn on my receiver my display turns on, if I turn on my display my receiver turns on,etc. and IMO this is a PITA.

This is spot on. I personally love HDMI control. I love to hit the On button once on my Directv remote and have everything turn on. But that is personal pref for sure. Also keep in mind that there ia a Viera setting that needs to be set in order to pipe sound via HDMI 2 back to the AVR. I think you need to change the setting from TV speakers to Home Theater or something like that. I am still on a trip so unable to look and verify.
post #3553 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

If you have been using the set for two weeks then running the slides is of no benefit.
Thanks for the reply but in my head im thinking if I start now wouldn't it even out the pixels that need to be even out.. If that makes any sense
post #3554 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ss10zidane View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

If you have been using the set for two weeks then running the slides is of no benefit.
Thanks for the reply but in my head im thinking if I start now wouldn't it even out the pixels that need to be even out.. If that makes any sense

Nope. If you have no IR at the moment, then there is nothing to "even out". Either way, running the slides will simply age the pixels exactly as they are now. If you want to "even" them out due to IR or just for the hell of it, use a pixel flipper or mixed content with no logos. Slides will do nothing for you bro. smile.gif Here is something I wrote that may help you understand better.

Many people will religiously use what are called break-in slides for the first 100 hours that they own the television. There are good reasons for this and there are misguided reasons as well. These slides are full screen color slides that you would run at 100 contrast for 100 hours as a slide show. This allows the phosphors to age evenly in there more fragile and impressionable state that is the first 100-200 hours. Now it is just as reasonable to simply watch mixed content for the first 100 hours instead of using slides. You just want to be sure to avoid letter box material or leaving stations on with static logos for long periods of times. The only downside of using content instead of slides is if you plan on using offered calibrated settings from someone like D-Nice on AVS. He is kind enough to offer calibrated settings to folks in an attempt to help out the community. He will break-in a set with the slides and then calibrate it. He will then post these settings for others to get at least close to a calibrated look. The best way to mimic his results is to break-in your set with the slides as he did. He will also be the first to tell you that panels vary and you may or may not benefit from his offered settings. If you do not use the slides as he did, then you will have less of a chance of benefiting from his settings because the panel will have been aged on a far less consistent scale.

Personally, I am not using slides anymore other than for use to inspect my panel for problems. Nobody wants to have a brand new set off limits for 4 days. I know I don't. This time round, I have not used slides and all is well in the world. If I want to get the set calibrated, I will.

Running slides in the hopes of matching the exact characteristics of someone elses panel is a gamble that may or may not pay off, and how would you really know if you were getting the most out of these "Free" settings without meters and training to tell you?

But, it is fair to say that you will have the least chance for any type of IR in the first 100+ hours by running the slides. There are no logos or bars or HUDs to worry about. I stress the point that they will not CAUSE IR but they will not help remove it. So it is a personal choice and there is most definately no reason not to run the slides other than it makes the set unavailable for 4 days.

As a side note, these slides are excellent tools to inspect your new screen for issues such as dead or stuck pixels, micro cracks in the glass and hot spots or uniformity issues. The trick here is to use this tool when you get your set and then leave it alone. If you constantly use these slides to look for issues, you will eventually find one and it will drive you crazy. And in most cases it will end up being something that you will never see while viewing normal content.

So there you have it regarding break-in. Use slides or mixed content for the first 100 hours or so and relax.

Another common misconception is that slides should be used to help remove IR or image retention. This is simply not the case.

You will never be told to use slides to remove IR. Breakin slides are for breaking in the panel, period. Think about it this way. If you look at your IR while running the slides, you will see that the IR is flashing exactly the same each time. You are simply baking the IR in as far as I am concerned. You are maintaining that exact image over and over again. Now start a pixel flipper or mixed content for that matter. In this case, every pixel involved within the area of the IR is being given it own unique workout independent from the surrounding pixels. This random aging of the pixels will allow the offending pixels involved within the area of IR to hopefully slowly blend in better with the surrounding pixels.

Edited by TopperMcFly - 6/27/12 at 1:31pm
post #3555 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadath View Post

Apparently the shipper is as dysfunctional as Panasonic themselves.
The shipper's website has not been updated since the pickup at my house.
Panasonic does not have an internal mechanism to figure out if THEY THEMSELVES GOT IT BACK.
It doesn't matter to Panasonic that I haven't had it for 3 weeks, they only will refund me when they have it checked out they say.
I threatened to dispute it via Amex today and they told me that would make things worse.
Either they get it fixed Wednesday or I'm putting the dispute in. I should have done it 2 weeks ago probably but I've been used to their incompetence.... =(
Panasonic are an absolutely horrid horrid company to deal with if anything goes wrong, this much is clear. Regret ever placing my order with them =(

You should file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau too. Does the shipper show that it was picked up? If so then it is clearly out of your hands, if not then there is the possibility that it has been lost/stolen. What will Panasonic do then?

Second thought: You have a document that was signed when you released the tv to the shipper. Copy it and ask Panasonic who to send it to for verification that you no longer have possession and that you cannot be held responsible, etc.
post #3556 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Nice Nate, nice to finally hear you enjoying your set a little. I would have ot think that your sharp has some sort of 120hz or motion smoothing gimmick enabled similar to Motion Smoother on the Panny. Either disable this function on the Sharp or try a higher setting of Motion Smoother on the Panny just as a test. Setting Motion Smoother to weak results in very minimal SOE. I honestly notice no difference between the Weak setting and Off. But if you set it to Medium or High, you will see motion become much smoother but the downside is that it will also look very synthetic and unnatural. Let me know how that works out.
FYI You should see a big difference between my (or wmkillers) settings and Standard Mode. Try it at night and you should def see what I mean. Standard mode is dull and dim IMO.
Peace

The SOE effect on the Sharp has been disabled as it was on the Panny - however, some of the BR movies still look a little "fake" on the Sharp. Not bad, but just a little off. Like the focus on the one person is almost TOO sharp and the background just doesn't look natural. I think the 120 hz vs the 600 hz is really showing up in Star Wars 3 beginning with the massive air battle. I couldn't watch on BOTH TVs at the same time, so I would move the HDMI cable from one TV to the other and watch the same scene. You could tell when the BR was paused and I'd move the cable what an unbelievable difference between the 2 sets. DEEP and RICH are 2 words that describe the Panny compared to the Sharp. I still like the Sharp for what it is, but it's just not near the Panny at this point.

I'm gonna try some Gaming a little later tonight. Should I run that also in Custom mode? Or would you go to Game mode? With the Sharp, you had to go to Game mode because that mode had something built it where it handled motion so much better (there was a lag in any other mode). I'm gonna be playing Halo Reach and would love to have a top notch first impression - so anyone have any ideas on if Game Mode is the one to run XBox on this Panny or is there no difference between modes? Thanks.
post #3557 of 13486
I have had the TV for a week, watched some TV, a few blu-rays and I am ready to post my initial impressions and comparison to 500m

First of all, let me start by saying I am truly amazed by the PQ of the VT50. I had fears that the PQ would be too far of a step down from my 500m and 141fd, but that is not the case at all. Rather, the VT50 puts up one hell of a fight and is truly worthy to be put in the same sentence as a Kuro.

Setup:
Panasonic 65VT50
PS3
Denon AVR-1910
M&K 750 (front, center, left)
M&K m-4t (surrounds)

Disclaimer: My set is not calibrated yet. I am using THX Cinema with a few tweaks to give skin tones a more natural look. I am not commenting on apps, 3d, or any of the other extras as I don't and won't be using them in the near future.

IR
I haven't had a hint of IR and this includes almost 100% viewing in THX bright room. I have watched ESPN, navigated Directv menus and had them up for multiples minutes without issue.

Color
Rich, natural, and tons of depth. The natural richness and depth that I am used to on my 500m is very present. The VT50 is slightly flatter in darker scenes but this is to be expected. I imagine this will be a dead tie (aside from darker scenes) with the Kuro once calibrated. It is amazing to see the Kuro look and feel on a 65" display with a very thin bezel. It definitely adds to the wow factor.

Dithering is definitely present and more obvious on the VT50 than my kuros. Honestly, it doesn't bother me.

Contrast/Black Level
So how close is the VT50 to the black levels of the Kuro? Really damn close is the answer. I did a quick side by side test with my 500m and yes the 500m has deeper blacks when you look hard to compare the black levels. But you have to look to notice. With that being said, a dark scene on a 500m produces noticeably darker blacks than the VT50. In high APL scenes the VT50 really shines and looks just like a Kuro. Not too shabby, but not Kuro level just yet. Overall, I am completely pleased with the black level and without the 500m next to the VT50 stands firm. Shadow detail is also excellent.

*I have yet to watch a letterbox movie. I will be watching one tonight and will update my post if I feel necessary.

Motion
No complaints here. Is it as good as the Kuro? Honestly, I can't tell if it is better or worse. Looks the same to me. Flickering isn't an issue for me anymore. I noticed it at first in 96hz but I realized contrast was turned up too much. turning it down fixed it.

There is something about this TV PQ that is very pleasing and different Something that gives its own unique look when compared to the 500m and 141fd. I am not sure what it is, but I do enjoy it. My GF has noticed it as well. I asked her which to order our TVs in order of best PQ and she said 500m, VT50, 141fd. I found that interesting and in a way I agree.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the TV and have no reservations about choosing the VT50 over the Elite. In my opinion, the only areas the Elite wins is black level and contrast. While the Elite is breath taking because of its amazing dynamic range, it does not offer the same natural look and feel as the VT50 nor does it over the color accuracy. I could not imagine paying double the price just for the dynamic range. At that price range, I rather consider a projector system.

If I had to give the VT50 and a rating and I considered the 500m to be a 10.. I would give the VT50 a 9.25. When considering the sheer size of the VT50 in comparison to the 500m, the VT50 gets a 10 rating.
Edited by jbrady3324 - 6/27/12 at 4:19pm
post #3558 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I have had the TV for a week, watched some TV, a few blu-rays and I am ready to post my initial impressions and comparison to 500m

First of all, let me start by saying I am truly amazed by the PQ of the VT50. I had fears that the PQ would be too far of a step down from my 500m and 141fd, but that is not the case at all. Rather, the VT50 puts up one hell of a fight and is truly worthy to be put in the same sentence as a Kuro.

Setup:
Panasonic 65VT50
PS3
Denon AVR-1910
M&K 750 (front, center, left)
M&K m-4t (surrounds)

Disclaimer: My set is not calibrated yet. I am using THX Cinema with a few tweaks to give skin tones a more natural look. I am not commenting on apps, 3d, or any of the other extras as I don't and won't be using them in the near future.

IR
I haven't had a hint of IR and this includes almost 100% viewing in THX bright room. I have watched ESPN, navigated Directv menus and had them up for multiples minutes without issue.

Color
Rich, natural, and tons of depth. The natural richness and depth that I am used to on my 500m is very present. The VT50 is slightly flatter in darker scenes but this is to be expected. I imagine this will be a dead tie (aside from darker scenes) with the Kuro once calibrated. It is amazing to see the Kuro look and feel on a 65" display with a very thin bezel. It definitely adds to the wow factor.

Dithering is definitely present and more obvious on the VT50 than my kuros. Honestly, it doesn't bother me.

Contrast/Black Level
So how close is the VT50 to the black levels of the Kuro? Really damn close is the answer. I did a quick side by side test with my 500m and yes the 500m has deeper blacks when you look hard to compare the black levels. But you have to look to notice. With that being said, a dark scene on a 500m produces noticeably darker blacks than the VT50. In high APL scenes the VT50 really shines and looks just like a Kuro. Not too shabby, but not Kuro level just yet. Overall, I am completely pleased with the black level and without the 500m next to the VT50 stands firm. Shadow detail is also excellent.

*I have yet to watch a letterbox movie. I will be watching one tonight and will update my post if I feel necessary.

Motion
No complaints here. Is it as good as the Kuro? Honestly, I can't tell if it is better or worse. Looks the same to me. Flickering isn't an issue for me anymore. I noticed it at first in 96hz but I realized contrast was turned up too much. turning it down fixed it.

There is something about this TV PQ that is very pleasing and different Something that gives its own unique look when compared to the 500m and 141fd. I am not sure what it is, but I do enjoy it. My GF has noticed it as well. I asked her which to order our TVs in order of best PQ and she said 500m, VT50, 141fd. I found that interesting and in a way I agree.

Overall, I am extremely happy with the TV and have no reservations about choosing the VT50 over the Elite. In my opinion, the only areas the Elite wins is black level and contrast. While the Elite is breath taking because of its amazing dynamic range, it does not offer the same natural look and feel as the VT50 nor does it over the color accuracy. I could not imagine paying double the price just for the dynamic range. At that price range, I rather consider a projector system.

If I had to give the VT50 and a rating and I considered the 500m to be a 10.. I would give the VT50 a 9.25. When considering the sheer size of the VT50 in comparison to the 500m, the VT50 gets a 10 rating.

Thanks for the update jbray wink.gif. Its nice to have some kuro owners and more owners in general to echo my feelings about this set. I was starting to feel a bit outgunned as I posted similar feelings before that was the case. The 500m sounds like a great set I must say. At any rate, thanks again. We finally have a club of happy owners of something other than the big K. There's room for two clubs, amiright? biggrin.gif

And to think you are just free ballin it with stock mode settings. Can only get better mate.
post #3559 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I have had the TV for a week, watched some TV, a few blu-rays and I am ready to post my initial impressions and comparison to 500m
First of all, let me start by saying I am truly amazed by the PQ of the VT50. I had fears that the PQ would be too far of a step down from my 500m and 141fd, but that is not the case at all. Rather, the VT50 puts up one hell of a fight and is truly worthy to be put in the same sentence as a Kuro.
Setup:
Panasonic 65VT50
PS3
Denon AVR-1910
M&K 750 (front, center, left)
M&K m-4t (surrounds)
Disclaimer: My set is not calibrated yet. I am using THX Cinema with a few tweaks to give skin tones a more natural look. I am not commenting on apps, 3d, or any of the other extras as I don't and won't be using them in the near future.
IR
I haven't had a hint of IR and this includes almost 100% viewing in THX bright room. I have watched ESPN, navigated Directv menus and had them up for multiples minutes without issue.
Color
Rich, natural, and tons of depth. The natural richness and depth that I am used to on my 500m is very present. The VT50 is slightly flatter in darker scenes but this is to be expected. I imagine this will be a dead tie (aside from darker scenes) with the Kuro once calibrated. It is amazing to see the Kuro look and feel on a 65" display with a very thin bezel. It definitely adds to the wow factor.
Dithering is definitely present and more obvious on the VT50 than my kuros. Honestly, it doesn't bother me.
Contrast/Black Level
So how close is the VT50 to the black levels of the Kuro? Really damn close is the answer. I did a quick side by side test with my 500m and yes the 500m has deeper blacks when you look hard to compare the black levels. But you have to look to notice. With that being said, a dark scene on a 500m produces noticeably darker blacks than the VT50. In high APL scenes the VT50 really shines and looks just like a Kuro. Not too shabby, but not Kuro level just yet. Overall, I am completely pleased with the black level and without the 500m next to the VT50 stands firm. Shadow detail is also excellent.
*I have yet to watch a letterbox movie. I will be watching one tonight and will update my post if I feel necessary.
Motion
No complaints here. Is it as good as the Kuro? Honestly, I can't tell if it is better or worse. Looks the same to me. Flickering isn't an issue for me anymore. I noticed it at first in 96hz but I realized contrast was turned up too much. turning it down fixed it.
There is something about this TV PQ that is very pleasing and different Something that gives its own unique look when compared to the 500m and 141fd. I am not sure what it is, but I do enjoy it. My GF has noticed it as well. I asked her which to order our TVs in order of best PQ and she said 500m, VT50, 141fd. I found that interesting and in a way I agree.
Overall, I am extremely happy with the TV and have no reservations about choosing the VT50 over the Elite. In my opinion, the only areas the Elite wins is black level and contrast. While the Elite is breath taking because of its amazing dynamic range, it does not offer the same natural look and feel as the VT50 nor does it over the color accuracy. I could not imagine paying double the price just for the dynamic range. At that price range, I rather consider a projector system.
If I had to give the VT50 and a rating and I considered the 500m to be a 10.. I would give the VT50 a 9.25. When considering the sheer size of the VT50 in comparison to the 500m, the VT50 gets a 10 rating.

Awesome review...when you say "does not off the same NATURAL look and feel as teh VT50", that is how I feel when comparing to my Sharp. In some instances, the Sharp is a little sharper or crisper, but it is not a NATURAL sharpness or crispness which makes it a little dizzying to watch. BR on VT50 looks REAL, and coupled with color depth and richness, it is truly worth the price so far...now, I have not gamed on it yet - so that will be a very important...I'll let you know how it is with gaming later on.
post #3560 of 13486
Try custom and then game mode. I like both. I am not a hard core gamer but am fully satisfied with this set for gaming.
post #3561 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateDoggg View Post

Awesome review...when you say "does not off the same NATURAL look and feel as teh VT50", that is how I feel when comparing to my Sharp. In some instances, the Sharp is a little sharper or crisper, but it is not a NATURAL sharpness or crispness which makes it a little dizzying to watch. BR on VT50 looks REAL, and coupled with color depth and richness, it is truly worth the price so far...now, I have not gamed on it yet - so that will be a very important...I'll let you know how it is with gaming later on.

I'm a gamer and I look forward to your thoughts.
post #3562 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Thanks for the update jbray wink.gif. Its nice to have some kuro owners and more owners in general to echo my feelings about this set. I was starting to feel a bit outgunned as I posted similar feelings before that was the case. The 500m sounds like a great set I must say. At any rate, thanks again. We finally have a club of happy owners of something other than the big K. There's room for two clubs, amiright? biggrin.gif
And to think you are just free ballin it with stock mode settings. Can only get better mate.

Yea the 500m is pretty much creme of the crop besides 141fd with the d-nice black level tweak. It really is a mind blowing experience watching ANYTHING on it because of the deep black levels. With that being said, the VT50 is 15 inches bigger and is obviously my main set while my 500m is now on bedroom duty which is good and bad thing (I find myself staying up later and later to give my 500m some love!)

I agree completely with D-Nice's opinion and analysis of the VT50 (as you can see in my review) but at the end of the day the VT50 stands firm and is a worthy contender to the Kuro. I could not be happier with the purchase. You can call it Kuro-lite cool.gif

Try watching Jeff, Who Lives at Home (pretty good movie.. it is not about what you think). I watched it last night and the the movie has a lot of high-apl natural looking scenes that show off the VT50's sense of depth and color accuracy.

Also, consider this.. when the 2nd gen Elite's come out next year, all of the 1st gen owners are going to be itching to upgrade (we all know they will be if they want better color accuracy, off-angle viewing and motion).. that is 7k, sell for 3-4k and buy another 7k set.. ouch! For us, VT50 owners, if we wanted to do the same thing it is more like buy VT50 for 3k, sell for 1.5-2k and then buy the new VT or 2nd gen elite.. we just saved a lot of money compared to those guys!
Edited by jbrady3324 - 6/27/12 at 5:08pm
post #3563 of 13486
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateDoggg View Post

Awesome review...when you say "does not off the same NATURAL look and feel as teh VT50", that is how I feel when comparing to my Sharp. In some instances, the Sharp is a little sharper or crisper, but it is not a NATURAL sharpness or crispness which makes it a little dizzying to watch. BR on VT50 looks REAL, and coupled with color depth and richness, it is truly worth the price so far...now, I have not gamed on it yet - so that will be a very important...I'll let you know how it is with gaming later on.

I have gamed on it well over a 100 hours already as I got one of the first ones out the gate and I can tell you from my experience you won't be disappointed in the least..
post #3564 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Nope. If you have no IR at the moment, then there is nothing to "even out". Either way, running the slides will simply age the pixels exactly as they are now. If you want to "even" them out due to IR or just for the hell of it, use a pixel flipper or mixed content with no logos. Slides will do nothing for you bro. smile.gif Here is something I wrote that may help you understand better.
Many people will religiously use what are called break-in slides for the first 100 hours that they own the television. There are good reasons for this and there are misguided reasons as well. These slides are full screen color slides that you would run at 100 contrast for 100 hours as a slide show. This allows the phosphors to age evenly in there more fragile and impressionable state that is the first 100-200 hours. Now it is just as reasonable to simply watch mixed content for the first 100 hours instead of using slides. You just want to be sure to avoid letter box material or leaving stations on with static logos for long periods of times. The only downside of using content instead of slides is if you plan on using offered calibrated settings from someone like D-Nice on AVS. He is kind enough to offer calibrated settings to folks in an attempt to help out the community. He will break-in a set with the slides and then calibrate it. He will then post these settings for others to get at least close to a calibrated look. The best way to mimic his results is to break-in your set with the slides as he did. He will also be the first to tell you that panels vary and you may or may not benefit from his offered settings. If you do not use the slides as he did, then you will have less of a chance of benefiting from his settings because the panel will have been aged on a far less consistent scale.
Personally, I am not using slides anymore other than for use to inspect my panel for problems. Nobody wants to have a brand new set off limits for 4 days. I know I don't. This time round, I have not used slides and all is well in the world. If I want to get the set calibrated, I will.
Running slides in the hopes of matching the exact characteristics of someone elses panel is a gamble that may or may not pay off, and how would you really know if you were getting the most out of these "Free" settings without meters and training to tell you?
But, it is fair to say that you will have the least chance for any type of IR in the first 100+ hours by running the slides. There are no logos or bars or HUDs to worry about. I stress the point that they will not CAUSE IR but they will not help remove it. So it is a personal choice and there is most definately no reason not to run the slides other than it makes the set unavailable for 4 days.
As a side note, these slides are excellent tools to inspect your new screen for issues such as dead or stuck pixels, micro cracks in the glass and hot spots or uniformity issues. The trick here is to use this tool when you get your set and then leave it alone. If you constantly use these slides to look for issues, you will eventually find one and it will drive you crazy. And in most cases it will end up being something that you will never see while viewing normal content.
So there you have it regarding break-in. Use slides or mixed content for the first 100 hours or so and relax.
Another common misconception is that slides should be used to help remove IR or image retention. This is simply not the case.
You will never be told to use slides to remove IR. Breakin slides are for breaking in the panel, period. Think about it this way. If you look at your IR while running the slides, you will see that the IR is flashing exactly the same each time. You are simply baking the IR in as far as I am concerned. You are maintaining that exact image over and over again. Now start a pixel flipper or mixed content for that matter. In this case, every pixel involved within the area of the IR is being given it own unique workout independent from the surrounding pixels. This random aging of the pixels will allow the offending pixels involved within the area of IR to hopefully slowly blend in better with the surrounding pixels.

Ya I kno that the slides don't do nothing regarding IR, but since I didn't do the slides in the beginning my thinking is that I didn't even out the pixels as in wear, doing the slides now wouldn't fix that? I'm trying to get ready for d settings but not sure if I'm too late for that
post #3565 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Hi Rogo, your assumption is correct. If both devices (receiver and display) are set with HDMI ARC on then you can view that HDMI cable as 2-way (sending video from the receiver to the display, and sending audio from the display to the receiver for playback on your speakers). For example, if using Netflix with a built-in app on the display the audio would be returned to the receiver via ARC, otherwise you are limited to TV speakers only. This would also apply to any other inputs used on the TV, a Roku connected to HDMI 3, the TV tuner, etc. You can also use a digital optical cable, which I have chosen to do because a) HDMI ARC is flaky and b) with HDMI ARC on this means that control functions can also pass - if I turn on my receiver my display turns on, if I turn on my display my receiver turns on,etc. and IMO this is a PITA.

Fantastically helpful. I will try it both ways, I found a TOSlink in my clearing out of the rat's nest as I moved all my cables around. This remote-control nonsense problem was not foreseen, alas, so it has delayed everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

This is spot on. I personally love HDMI control. I love to hit the On button once on my Directv remote and have everything turn on. But that is personal pref for sure. Also keep in mind that there ia a Viera setting that needs to be set in order to pipe sound via HDMI 2 back to the AVR. I think you need to change the setting from TV speakers to Home Theater or something like that. I am still on a trip so unable to look and verify.

I have become a Harmony addict, so I'm not sure HDMI control matters to me, but having ARC running sounds like a big win, not just for Netflix, but the ability to pump sound from my extra DVR (which is direct-connected to the TV) back to the AVR when I need it in a pinch.
post #3566 of 13486
I'm seeing some serious judder. In the movie, Primal Fear, Check out the overhead pan of the train at about 11:23.
post #3567 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I'm seeing some serious judder. In the movie, Primal Fear, Check out the overhead pan of the train at about 11:23.

This issue has been discussed and researched ad nauseum. It is not the TV my friend. Its new TV syndrome. Read thread or at least the last 15 pages or so and the truth shall be revealed. I am too tired to rehash it all over again. Just trust me. wink.gif
post #3568 of 13486
Ok, so far I have had 14 hours of content played on my 65vt50 and here are my first impressions.

The colors on this set are incredibly rich and natural. I can't get over how much depth and life likeness everything has. So far I have watched Pirates of the Caribbean, Hot Fuzz, and MI4 to test color and my expectations have been exceeded. Much much better than what I had saw at Best Buy. I am coming from a 2010 Panasonic, and it is on an entirely different level from it.

The blacks and contrast have really impressed me. I guess I am lucky enough to have not seen a 9g Kuro in person, so I don't notice the slightly lesser blacks. Black bars blend in to the bezel in most content, and only stick out a slight bit in dark content. Keep in mind, even during really dark content in a totally dark room at night, the black bars are still very dark and don't really stick out to me much. Shadow detail is superb and I see things that I have never seen before because of it. Watching the same movies again on the vt50 gives me the feeling of watching them for the first time.

The motion is exceptional as well and seems very life like. My biggest gripe with the Sharp Elite, was that I felt that I wasn't watching a film and seemed artificial. I do not have this problem here. Yes, some panning shots are not perfect, and are only so with motion smoother on, but I still prefer it off due to the SoE.

All in all I am very impressed with this set and glad I did not get the Sharp Elite. I would have traded all the superior advantages of the vt50 for a slightly better contrast ration in the Elite, which isn't much better to my eye. I will continue to do some more critical viewing and just overall start enjoying my set. smile.gif

Also, I think I made a smarter choice in getting the vt50 since I plan on upgrading in 3 or 4 years.
Edited by Famouss - 6/27/12 at 10:55pm
post #3569 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn1ffb0 View Post

I have an Onkyo 818 and I was wondering if the thx modes and the video processing on that would make a difference if I chose a 60ST50 vs a 55VT50? Basically, I'm asking if I should opt for the bigger tv, with less features?
Bigger is "usually" better wink.gif
post #3570 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I'm seeing some serious judder. In the movie, Primal Fear, Check out the overhead pan of the train at about 11:23.

This issue has been discussed and researched ad nauseum. It is not the TV my friend. Its new TV syndrome. Read thread or at least the last 15 pages or so and the truth shall be revealed. I am too tired to rehash it all over again. Just trust me. wink.gif

I have done a lot of reading on it. I'm just wondering why I didn't notice it on my DLP.
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