Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 134

Not Best Buy -

Local as in close to me (Boston) and well recommended by someone at Avical who I contacted first.

Gotcha thanks - I turned it off and it certainly helped.

I told him I wanted the TV calibrated to make sports (and some movie viewing) optimized. He told me it would be much better I'm just not seeing it. He did say it would take some time for my eyes to adjust and then i would really notice the difference. However, HD and 3D quality especially in animations is a bit worse in my opinion.

Regards,

I see, makes sense. I forgot about possibly having other devices connected to your AVR. I have multiple devices as well, but I have them both set to 0-255 (HTPC and PS3). I agree that if you have other devices that only support 16-235, then you must you it, unless you want to keep switching it for each device.

As to the individual who wasn't impressed with his calibration, some people just don't like an accurate picture. THX mode is already fairly decent so calibrating THX mode won't make a dramatic difference to the un-trained eye. ISF mode is really where you can dial in the picture, but even then it will probably look similar to a calibrated THX mode. You might just have to get used to it. Any half-decent calibrator should be able to do a decent job, however the accuracy of the meter used and even the software used can make a considerable difference.

Since you say you prefer Custom mode, I'm kind of leaning towards the idea that you simply just don't like an accurate/calibrated picture. Custom mode by default has a lower gamma (so more shadow detail will be visible), Sharpness at 50 which will add edge-enhancement / fake detail, and a cooler (more blue) color temperature. The calibrated THX modes should look more natural and have a 'warmer' looking picture without any fake detail / little to no edge-enhancement. Sharpness should be set to 0 or near 0 on these 2012 Pannys with Edge-Enhancement (and all other 'enhancements') off.

I think you should try custom mode with motion smoother on high for animated content. I think you would really like it. Animated content is the only content that I feel benefits from a high dose of the motion smoother. Plus, do not judge in sunlight hours. The night time has a way of reminding us how good the set is. I imagine you could eat some crow and call him back. He should be cool with helping you out I would hope.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 7/9/12 at 6:07pm

I enjoy reading your posts bro. Excellent info for everyone. Thanks

That may be an important observation. My underlying theory is that your expectations may not match what a good calibration is supposed to do. If your colors are now accurate, and we have no reason to believe that they aren't, then the difference will be large or small depending on the state your display was in before calibration. Accurate colors don't produce a WoW effect unless you were putting up with either green sickly skin tones, or in the other extreme orange sun burned skin tones before your calibration.
That sounds like a good calibration.
Grayed out controls usually mean they don't apply to the mode your display is in.
HD quality? Do you mean HDTV or Blu-ray. Blu-ray should always be better than HDTV, but even Blu-ray will vary in quality such that the bad Blu-ray disks may not be as good as the best HDTV. It's hard for someone who is not watching what you're watching to comment, but it could be that you're missing the excessive blue whites that the public has been trained to expect.

My guess is that, if David Abrams recommended your calibrator, your display is reproducing your source material as accurately as possible.

Try watching the best quality Blu-ray movies and HDTV you can for three weeks or more without constantly comparing what you see to the "out of the box" settings in another mode. See how the two different states feel to you then.
No Wow!
Give yourself some time with your calibration with out constantly checking to see if you got your money's worth, and if your still not happy, call your calibrator and see if he can adjust your display more to your personal taste.
No one can answer that question for you, but unless your are able to watch your calibrated display for an extended period of time without worrying if you "did the right thing" you'll never know.

Keep in mind that you describe yourself and being new to "all this". For instance you haven't posted any information about the conditions in your viewing room when you do your most critical watching. You also don't provide any concrete examples of the exact material that doesn't seem as good after calibration.

PLEASE don't do that now. Give yourself a worry free long vacation to enjoy your calibrated display. At that point, if you still feel disappointed, do some well defined comparisons to post.

Best of luck, and remember to enjoy.
Edited by htwaits - 7/9/12 at 7:44pm

^^^

Great post.
I have one quibble, an accurate display gives me a wow effect and has since I had my first Kuro.

- Rich

Me too, but the Ephman2002's concerns are about what he expected and now perceives that, not what you and I see and enjoy.

My underlying theory is that your expectations may not match what a good calibration is supposed to do. If your colors are now accurate, and we have no reason to believe that they aren't, then the difference will be large or small depending on the state your display was in before calibration. Accurate colors don't produce a WoW effect unless you were putting up with either green sickly skin tones, or in the other extreme orange sun burned skin tones before your calibration.
[/quote]

Nice reply, well done.

Just to add, as D-Nice pointed out a pinkish tone. That as well should be gone if the calibration has been done right.

Also if a calibrator (imo) is using Green when calibrating the gray scale, I would question why Green is being used. imo if you use Green +-, for the most part it tends to flatten out the picture thereby loosing depth. However in a few cases I would guess, Green has to be used.

ss

Based on these statements the TV was not calibrated. The THX modes neither offer Grayscale nor Color Management, therefore Gamma as well. It takes 3 hours, not 30 minutes.

Ephman2002, did you receive a report?

Green is used whenever required, mostly to raise or lower Gamma . Even on the VT50 with 10p Gamma controls sometimes one click of "Gamma " is too much and smaller increments can be made with the R, G, & B GS sliders.

I have been enjoying my 65VT50 for a few days now – wow! I got it from Cleveland Plasma, calibrated by Chad B. It looks amazing! Since it arrived calibrated I can’t compare the picture before and after calibration, all I know is I like it! I don’t notice any buzzing since I have tinnitus

A couple of questions. I have seen mention of a bias light behind the TV, I would like to try one. How bright a light should I use?

I watched my first 3D movie tonight (Thor, using Panasonic glasses). I used THX 3D mode which seemed a little dark and lacking in shadow detail, any suggestions for settings for 3D? (Chad calibrated ISF Day and ISF Night.)

I love the picture so far. My Oppo BDP-93 is also new to me so I am still playing with settings, any suggestions? (I have the Oppo connected to the VT50 with HDMI 1 and to my receiver with HDMI 2.)

Thanks in advance.

Yes, which is why I mentioned above the formula for Pressure = Force / Area. The good news, however, is that the stand it ~2.5 sq. ft. That's about 40 pounds of pressure per square foot, which doesn't sound especially high to me. Of course, if someone leaned their hand atop the set for even a moment, that could become 80-100 lbs. in a jiffy.

My point about spectacular failure made so graphically well. Thanks Chris.

So, I'm no expert, but I think you should wall mount too. The truth is the glass is probably thick enough, but a proper wall mount can survive nearly anything.

Topper,

I've dialed-in your settings and see a much better picture. Thanks.

I'm actually quite disappointed in myself for the question I'm about to ask, but I've tried everything I could think of, and still can't figure out what I might have done wrong. I was able to dial-in evryone of your settings except "3:2 pulldown". For some reason it appears greyed-out on my VT50. I am certain that I am feeding 24 fps (i also dialed-in your settings on my PS3), and have "24p Direct in" set to 60Hz.

I've got all your other settings dialed-in (except "Color temp" which I stubbornly set to "Warm 2"), so not sure what could be wrong... any help would be greatly appreciated.

The 3:2 pull down is only available (not gray) if you feed the TV an interlaced signal (1080i).

Soon to be a owner. Ordered today on Amazon, delivery Monday 16th.

Appreciate any tips and tricks.

And any ISF tech touring SLC, UT? Or what are my options?

TIA.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2

The very best source for accurate bias lighting and information about how to set it up is here.

Bias-Lighting by Ideal-Lume

I think the standard brightness should be about 10% of max lumens, but that's an old and vague memory. The last time UMR was here to calibrate our display, he pointed out that if you used bias lighting then you will need to adjust the calibration. You might want to check with Chad B for more precise information. In any event, I think bias lighting shouldn't be very bright, but more important it needs to be the right kind of light. If ;you go to far you'll be painting too.

Enjoy your new calibrated display.

I have been using TopperMcFly's settings after my 100 hours break in. TV looks great! At night, I switch the panel brightness to low. Thanks again for those settings!

My HD DVR was actually set to 1080i, but my AVR was set to 1080p. Doesn't look like my AVR has a pass-through option... bummer. I guess I'll have to leave it at 1080p.

I did switch change it to 1080i, and switched the VT50 "3:2 pull down" to "on" (just for the sake of it, since I put the AVR back to 1080p). I wold assume any device can do 3:2 pulldown almost identically; this should be standard fare by now, right?

Btw, shouldn't 3:2 pulldown also be available when I feed 24p material to the TV and the 24p Direct in is set to 60Hz?
Edited by SpiffX - 7/10/12 at 12:14am

I received my 55vt50 yesterday it was an amazon open box. After going through the boxes content several times and finding no screws with the set I called amazon and they gave me a partial refund. Off to the hardware store and finally put my TV together and WOW. I was pleasantly surprised by my HD cable I thought it would not look as good as is does. The 50vt20 really did a lousy job of removing compression noise from cable channels. The real WOW factors were planet earth deep oceans and the third pirates of the Caribbean blurays. My hx909 does render a deeper black, but the vt50 does not have any halo's. I did not think I would be as wowed by this set it amazes me that this is what owners kuro have been enjoying for years and those sets produce even deeper black. The vt20 does not even come close to this set in black level or video processing. My set does not emit a buzzing that I can hear and very little IR after watching pirates there was slight IR from the bars.

I know that there are posts on how to get to the service menu. I was wondering what buttons navigate and where in there does it have the hours powered on? Thanks.

I was using Thor 3D when I first had mine calibrated as well. This movie is very dark and probably not a good one to use to evaluate. Before calibration it was much too dark to see much of anything (using THX3D mode), After my THX3D mode was calibrated, it was lighter, but not by a lot. I believe it's just poor source material for 3D perhaps. That's one movie I may use Vivid mode for 3D. Not great, but at least you can see it.

I'm curious, did he calibrate isf day and night using the THX modes, or did he use some other mode? I was assuming that an isf calibrator would open up 2 other modes that would be available to him that's not available otherwise. It may be that your THX3D has not been calibrated, since it's neither the day nor the night mode.

In my particular circumstance, I had only the 3 THX modes calibrated by a THX calibrator. I would think that I could also have some of the other modes calibrated with an isf calibrator, if I choose to do that.
Edited by CatBrat - 7/10/12 at 4:47am

I've noticed some fan noise on mine too... I'm interested in your solution.

Thanks I will check it out. I didn't think about altering the calibration if I use a bias light, I will ask. No painting, I rent

Thanks CatBrat. Thor and Captain America were the only 3D movies my local Walmart had in stock last night. I remember Thor being a dark movie when I saw it in a decent theater but it was a while ago. What are some better 3D titles?

Chad sent me calibration reports for ISF Day and ISF night, so I assume he did not calibrate THX3D. But that's fine, most of my viewing will be 2D, plus now I will have something to tweak

It's a $20 solution and has worked great so far. You can go to this link (the link to FIXING the problem is on page 2 of the thread about half way down): http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1641954-vt50-fan-noise-opinions-wanted-2.html

It's only 2 pages of posts, but someone came up with this idea (I would suggest reading all the posts first - it will only take a few minutes). If you go this route - these ship from the UK, so it takes about a week from the time you buy them. They are very flexible and attach directly over the fans with complete ease (and remove with complete ease as well). Make sure you get the 80mm (there are different sizes) - they are 5.95 UK$ each. The screen is a fine mesh - air flows through very easily so there is no obstruction to the fans...the noise from the fans won't be totally gone, but you'll need to be within 2 feet to hear it. I'd say it lessens the fan noise by over 50%, and it takes the higher pitched sound away.

Again, the noise was only noticeable on my TV during very quiet scenes, but it was enough of a bother to want to find a solution. I can't speak long-term, but these have eliminated the problem for me. The quality on these are good. They are light and flexible and fit on top of the fans super easy. Also, one guy that attached both fans had a method for testing the temperature of the TV - it went up a total of 1 degree, so there is little to no obstruction to the fans.

Lemme know if I can be of any further help. Most people don't have an issue with this noise, but I am VERY sensitive to unwanted noise so finding a fix for only $20 was huge for me.

Nate
Edited by NateDoggg - 7/10/12 at 6:38am

I'm rather fond of animated 3D movies. Any of those should produce good looking and brighter 3D. I also like some of the documentaries (except the one about the cave) like the underwater ones. Most of the non-animated movies I've seen haven't added much extra enjoyment with 3D, although I did like Tron in 3D. With Tron, don't expect 3D until he gets sent to computer land. I remember Hugo 3D being ok. In the theater, I liked Titanic in 3D, but I can see where parts of that one might be too dark for THX3D.
Edited by CatBrat - 7/10/12 at 7:12am

Green Lantern, although not a great movie, was impressive in 3D

I understand your frustration, but c'mon now, that's a bit of an exaggeration. Sounds to me like you've either never seen or have only had brief encounters with a top notch calibration on a good plamsa, because in that case, whites look only as white as they were intended to look (and they can look every bit as white as an LCD when needed, IME). With all the newbs here investing so much in this TV which apparently was meant to be calibrated, I think it might serve them better to keep them open to the idea of calibration. Nobody is shoving it down their throat, but suggesting they give it a chance before giving up and destroying the original tone of the picture isn't too much to ask now, is it?

If anyone is interested, I put my VT50 and 500m next to each other last night to compare black levels. Here is what I found

Displaying a letterbox (black bar) movie paused at the same scene
The 500m had noticeably darker black bars. This was not a surprise to me as I could tell the 500m had darker black bars when watching movies in my bedroom. What shocked me was how much darker it was. The 500m was about 3 brightness clicks darker.

Full screen movie paused at the same scene
High APL Scene: Almost impossible to see a difference
Low APL Scene: I used True Blood and Alien blu-rays and I paused them during a very dark scenes. The 500m definitely handled low APL scenes better. Blacks appeared to be around 2 brightness clicks darker.

I tried to take screenshots, but they did not come out well enough to show off the differences.

End result... the slightly light black level does not bother me I was only interested to see how close the VT50 was to the Kuro.

D65 is D65 no matter what kind of display being viewed. However, Plasma Dirty Screen Effect can be irritating at times. For me it's nowhere near peak white rather the mid levels found on some race tracks. As the camera follows a car it is the track that is being panned and the combination of motion artifacts and DSE makes me shake my head. None the less, I'll take the VT50 before any LCD and until something better like proven OLED comes along I imagine I won't be changing my mind soon....