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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 153

post #4561 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

A few questions, and this may or may not be the right forum for it:
Given the discussion that has recently taken place, I am considering an external deinterlacer, scaler. Again, I have no idea of the world of external video processor, however the two most opt quoted names that II am hearing are Lumagen and DVDO.
1> Does anyone know the chip used in the DVDO Edge Green? The iScan Duo uses the ABT chip, and the Radiance series uses the Gennum VXP for deinterlacing and a proprietary chip for scaling.
2> Given the broken 10 pt greyscale and CMS, would it not just be a better proposition to buy say an ST50 with an iScan Duo for the same total price, and be able to get a theoretically better dialed in picture?
3> Mainstream AVRs boast some pretty serious video processing chips as well. Anyone know which one, irrespective of cost, would have the best one out there?
Thanks in advance

I think your idea of the ST/Duo combo is the cat's pajamas.
1. 10 point Grayscale - the Lumagen beats it here with 20p but for the large increase in price it isn't worth it despite the fact that the VT (and probably ST) has problems at 5, 85, and 95% peak white.
2. The Grayscale controls also enable the ability to adjust Gamma.
3. Full, 3D CMS

Problems: First, the Duo patterns are around 25% of the screen size and ABL can be a problem. Solution: Use the small window patterns from one of the two available free discs. Secondly, the Duo remote changes calibration settings in .0001 increments AND pollutes the screen with 4 separate and simultaneous OSDs. What were they thinking????????

Fortunately there is a solution. I have a free calibration program (works like ControlCal) specifically for the Duo that 1) produces NO OSD, and 2) has selectable increments of .0001, .001, .01, .1, and 1.0000. With this program I cut full Duo calibration time by more than 90% - not kidding.

Here it is:
DVDO iScan Duo Control Panel.zip 160k .zip file

Edit: The zip also contains a ChromaPure shortcut. Just use the program file.
post #4562 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The picture on my 2-week-old 50" GT50 is definitely softer than on the 46" G10 that it replaced, and it's not just because the screen is 4" larger. I watch a lot of local news over the air and facial detail on familiar anchormen and anchorwomen is a little softer on the good 1080i channels (KCBS & KTLA), but it gets considerably softer on 720p channels such as FOX (the worst looking OTA channel in L.A.) and the bandwidth-choked KABC broadcasts. I'm also seeing a relative lack of detail in their hair and clothing, as well as softer edge detail. And the longer the shot is, the softer the image gets. My Tivo menus and familiar graphics and logos on my local OTA channels and Speed Channel as well as text in general are also softer and less defined on this TV.
I had been seeing some similar softness reports in other 2012 Panasonic series threads and was thinking maybe it's the posters' sources, but the first thing i noticed when i first got this 50GT50 was that it is indeed noticeably softer and i must say it was (and still is) disappointing. Setting my Tivo and SA8300HD to 720p Fixed gives a slightly softer image than setting them to1080i Fixed (as it does on all my other displays) and i just can't get this TV to look as crisp as my 46G10 did. Facial detail has improved over time as the panel accrues more hours and i get better at adjusting the picture settings but it's still a little too soft for my tastes and it's almost a deal-breaker, but since everything else about the PQ is better than my G10 i'm resisting the temptation to return the GT50. But everything is definitely crisper on my old G10.
I've asked in another thread but folks here are more knowledgeable - can an ISF Calibration improve facial detail and make the image sharper/crisper with OTA and good quality cable signals as the source ?

I am seeing the EXACT same thing. It has improved since I bought the set but still considerably softer than my Kuro. I've noticed that THX Bright Room amplifies the softness because of the gamma setting it is using. Yet, I can still see the softness in custom and THX Cinema.
post #4563 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I am seeing the EXACT same thing. It has improved since I bought the set but still considerably softer than my Kuro. I've noticed that THX Bright Room amplifies the softness because of the gamma setting it is using. Yet, I can still see the softness in custom and THX Cinema.

I still don't get this. Put up a luma or chroma multiburst patterns and every 1080p pixel is clearly visible. Maybe, just maybe, it's the glass.
post #4564 of 13486
Anyone try hooking up a Hard Drive directly to a VT50? I know it can handle MKV files from an SD/USB flash drive, but it would be interesting to have a 3TB drive full of my uncompressed BluRay MKV rips ready to go if for no other reason I can free up shelf space. My wife said my office is starting to look like a blu ray rental store...
post #4565 of 13486
Has anyone tried increasing or decreasing the sharpness of your cable providers box and then the VT50s sharpness setting?
post #4566 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxurdonexx View Post

Has anyone tried increasing or decreasing the sharpness of your cable providers box and then the VT50s sharpness setting?

That's basically the idea that's being tossed around with the external processors your reading about in the past few pages.
Edited by SiGGy - 7/19/12 at 9:06am
post #4567 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I still don't get this. Put up a luma or chroma multiburst patterns and every 1080p pixel is clearly visible. Maybe, just maybe, it's the glass.

It is not the glass. I am convinced the VT50 is not great at cleaning up poor-good cable/sat sources. Blu-ray looks fine.

I am not too bothered by it. I will say golf on ESPN looks great right now.
Edited by jbrady3324 - 7/19/12 at 9:32am
post #4568 of 13486
Wow, thanks. Now I know what patients feel like when I spew out the genetics of say, non-hodgkin's lymphoma, when they simply ask, 'why me, doc?' smile.gif

Thanks for that cat's pajamas inference as well, however I am yet find myself a pair of those tongue.gif

I am strongly thinking of getting the lumagen radiance mini3D, or might chicken out, and get a cheaper DVDO. Is this something a pro calibrators routinely recommend employing for non-projector based home HT systems, and what is the level of expertise with tweaking these?
post #4569 of 13486
Going off-topic a little away from all the apparent problems of this set...

Has anyone adjusted GAME mode settings yet? And, if so, if you've got something you like could you post them? I am currently using the stock Game mode settings and while they are fine, I'm always looking for better.
post #4570 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The picture on my 2-week-old 50" GT50 is definitely softer than on the 46" G10 that it replaced, and it's not just because the screen is 4" larger. I watch a lot of local news over the air and facial detail on familiar anchormen and anchorwomen is a little softer on the good 1080i channels (KCBS & KTLA), but it gets considerably softer on 720p channels such as FOX (the worst looking OTA channel in L.A.) and the bandwidth-choked KABC broadcasts. I'm also seeing a relative lack of detail in their hair and clothing, as well as softer edge detail. And the longer the shot is, the softer the image gets. My Tivo menus and familiar graphics and logos on my local OTA channels and Speed Channel as well as text in general are also softer and less defined on this TV.
I had been seeing some similar softness reports in other 2012 Panasonic series threads and was thinking maybe it's the posters' sources, but the first thing i noticed when i first got this 50GT50 was that it is indeed noticeably softer and i must say it was (and still is) disappointing. Setting my Tivo and SA8300HD to 720p Fixed gives a slightly softer image than setting them to1080i Fixed (as it does on all my other displays) and i just can't get this TV to look as crisp as my 46G10 did. Facial detail has improved over time as the panel accrues more hours and i get better at adjusting the picture settings but it's still a little too soft for my tastes and it's almost a deal-breaker, but since everything else about the PQ is better than my G10 i'm resisting the temptation to return the GT50. But everything is definitely crisper on my old G10.
I've asked in another thread but folks here are more knowledgeable - can an ISF Calibration improve facial detail and make the image sharper/crisper with OTA and good quality cable signals as the source ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I am seeing the EXACT same thing. It has improved since I bought the set but still considerably softer than my Kuro. I've noticed that THX Bright Room amplifies the softness because of the gamma setting it is using. Yet, I can still see the softness in custom and THX Cinema.

Gamma can affect perceived sharpness.

Randy, have you measured the gamma response on your display?
post #4571 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

I am strongly thinking of getting the lumagen radiance mini3D, or might chicken out, and get a cheaper DVDO. Is this something a pro calibrators routinely recommend employing for non-projector based home HT systems, and what is the level of expertise with tweaking these?

I doubt many pro calibrators recommend VPs for panels very often. I have a Mini and love it but I bought it when I had a panel that only had 2 point adjustments. It is handy if you have your own calibration equipment but IMO it would be overkill for a VT50. That is unless you have a plenty of disposable cash. If you don't own your own calibration equipment then plan on spending about another $1000 on a decent meter and software. The rabbit hole is very deep.eek.gifbiggrin.gif
post #4572 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones View Post

Anyone try hooking up a Hard Drive directly to a VT50? I know it can handle MKV files from an SD/USB flash drive, but it would be interesting to have a 3TB drive full of my uncompressed BluRay MKV rips ready to go if for no other reason I can free up shelf space. My wife said my office is starting to look like a blu ray rental store...

A 2TB and smaller use a 512 byte LBA structure and 3TB use a 4kB structure. Current tv's can't address that type of drive. It's pretty much limited to PC's. Also you'd have to convert to Dolby Digital or lower or you won't get audio if it's encoded with DTS. I have a 3TB(usb 3.0) on my pc and stream MKV wirelessly to my tv using DLNA and 720p works well but 1080p can stutter. If you rip down to around 10GB 1080p may work.
post #4573 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

A 2TB and smaller use a 512 byte LBA structure and 3TB use a 4kB structure. Current tv's can't address that type of drive. It's pretty much limited to PC's. Also you'd have to convert to Dolby Digital or lower or you won't get audio if it's encoded with DTS. I have a 3TB(usb 3.0) on my pc and stream MKV wirelessly to my tv using DLNA and 720p works well but 1080p can stutter. If you rip down to around 10GB 1080p may work.

Thanks for sharing that info - you saved me some screwing around time and I appreciate it.

Handbreak now has an Apple TV 3 compression setting, so I may just have it transcode the MKV as a 1080P MP4 and let Apple TV stream it. At least that way I could get my daughter's/wife's movies digital so they can find them easily via Apple TV and it would free up some space on my media shelf. They are far less obsessive about PQ than I am; that said, the AT3 setting produced really nice results when I saw it at a friends house and the streaming worked quite well. I will try this out tonight.

For my own stuff, I would want to keep it lossless, so the other option would be to hook the TV up directly to a dedicated media server ala the Micca/Dune/Popcorn Time. Maybe a project for later in the summer.

Thanks again!
Edited by Blackbelt Jones - 7/19/12 at 11:34am
post #4574 of 13486
I haven't tried plugging my drives directly into the tv, but I have a wdtv live and it will play anything I have thrown at it mkv, avi, DVD rips and even straight bluray rips Its really a great little box that also works as a media server for content on a hard drive plugged into it as well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KOZNBW/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
post #4575 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by uubji View Post

I haven't tried plugging my drives directly into the tv, but I have a wdtv live and it will play anything I have thrown at it mkv, avi, DVD rips and even straight bluray rips Its really a great little box that also works as a media server for content on a hard drive plugged into it as well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KOZNBW/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

I ran in to those while hunting for media players last night - pretty amazing what $90 gets you these days! Good to know it works well for you. That said I am keen at throwing lossless video to the VT50 and HD audio to my receiver. Looks like the Dune HD line will fit the bill. Nice looking design as well.

After I spend some more time with the Apple TV 3 working with the VT50 I will post my observations. Early returns are very good.
post #4576 of 13486
Has anyone had success with using Component Input with the supplied breakout adapter (by success, I mean you get picture and sound)? Just for kicks, I wanted to see if there was any difference in PQ with cable programming if I used the Component output from my new TWC Cisco 8642 DVR to the VT50. I could not get an image on the display, but got the audio. I double and triple checked the cabling and connections on both box and TV, and all are correct and well connected. I tried both the Video and Comp option on the Component input source but only audio comes through the TV on both.
post #4577 of 13486
Well, my calibrator buddy came over to house to help with evaluating the 65VT50 using both the Spears & Munsil disc, and running some patterns (and such) from his own devices for interlace and sharpness tests (don't recall what the device is, but it was a pretty slick little unit). BTW - Aside from his own business as an ISF II certified calibrator, he is full time employed at a large LA based post-production facility as a video engineer. He wiThe VT50 did well because the sources were good. I then showed him what I am witnessing with the cable content, specifically the softness of the 1080i programming. He had no trouble seeing what I was seeing, and was quite surprised at the inferior crispness. I will be hooking up my new Marantz SR6006 (with the Anchor Bay ABT-2015 video processing chip) today to see what kind of results I can achieve with improved sharpness/deinterlacing.

FYI - Regarding broken CMS/Luminance Controls

Transcript from Panasonic dated Jul 19, 2012 12:44:51 PM
In response to question: Plasma HDTV
System: Welcome to Panasonic Chat. A transcript of this chat will be emailed to you once you disconnect.
Agent Ashlee R. says: Hello. How may I assist you?

Customer John says: Hello. I am an ISF Calibrator and have come across a client yesterday. I found the CMS controls to be useless and have rumor of a firmware fix? I need to know if there is a fix coming because my client wants to return the monitor for a Samsung.
Agent Ashlee R. says: there has not been any announcements of any Firm ware updates being released for the VT 50
Customer John says: That is extremely disappointing to hear. The functionality of these features worked on last years models. For a $3000.00+ monitor, without fixing the CMS controls, in theory the ISFccc portion of the monitor is not up to ISFccc standards and I will be contacting the president of ISF to inform him (if he isn't already aware) of the issue.
Agent Ashlee R. says: I do apologize for that
Customer John says: Can I get in contact with someone in the product development/sales side? There has to be more that "I am sorry"
Agent Ashlee R. says: product development no , sales dept yes at 1-800-405-0652
post #4578 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

FYI - Regarding broken CMS/Luminance Controls
Transcript from Panasonic dated Jul 19, 2012 12:44:51 PM
In response to question: Plasma HDTV
System: Welcome to Panasonic Chat. A transcript of this chat will be emailed to you once you disconnect.
Agent Ashlee R. says: Hello. How may I assist you?
Customer John says: Hello. I am an ISF Calibrator and have come across a client yesterday. I found the CMS controls to be useless and have rumor of a firmware fix? I need to know if there is a fix coming because my client wants to return the monitor for a Samsung.
Agent Ashlee R. says: there has not been any announcements of any Firm ware updates being released for the VT 50
Customer John says: That is extremely disappointing to hear. The functionality of these features worked on last years models. For a $3000.00+ monitor, without fixing the CMS controls, in theory the ISFccc portion of the monitor is not up to ISFccc standards and I will be contacting the president of ISF to inform him (if he isn't already aware) of the issue.
Agent Ashlee R. says: I do apologize for that
Customer John says: Can I get in contact with someone in the product development/sales side? There has to be more that "I am sorry"
Agent Ashlee R. says: product development no , sales dept yes at 1-800-405-0652

Thanks for sharing this. It's a real bummer to read that though. Not surprised frown.gif.
post #4579 of 13486
BTW - Many thanks to ALL those who are (and have been) contributing toward the goal of better understanding and possibly resolving/addressing the softness issue ( as-well-as some of the other shortfalls). There is a lot I do appreciate and enjoy about my new VT50. I want to keep it; if I can resolve the softness issue when the set displays poorer quality cable/sat programming signals. I want to believe that eventually (and hopefully sometime in the near future) Panasonic will have a Firmware update to correct the CMS/Luminance control issues (and possibly other things). I know the VT50 will never be the perfect set, but nothing will or can ever be. I'm willing to live with some of the other shortfalls, as long as I can get an acceptably sharper result from an external video processor for my HD cable viewing.
post #4580 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_S View Post

Curious if anyone has viewed the deinterlacing test patterns at different motion smoother settings?
BTW, I'm having Jeff Meier over Friday to calibrate my 65vt50 and touch up my 58vt25, plus a Panasonic ul series LCD. Buzzard's post about how the calibration falls into place if you take the time to understand the interplay of the controls, reminds me of the last time Jeff was over and we discussed the notion that contrary to some of the opinions on the forum, the engineers of these sets DO try to achieve reference quality within the constraints of profitability, and that there is usually a sweet spot you can hit on the calibrations. Keep in mind that knowing what a reference image looks like is the most important thing. Because it is possible for a set that doesn't look perfect as far as the statistical results to actually have an exceptional image. It is talented/experienced engineers like Jeff that are able to know where the compromises can be made. My goal for calibrating the set is to have delivered to my eye, as closely as possible, the image that the video editor saw in the studio.
With Jeff's permission I'd be happy to post his before and after results.
Sean

How would you compare the vt50 to vt25 ? Is it a big upgrade or just incremental ?
post #4581 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

BTW - Many thanks to ALL those who are (and have been) contributing toward the goal of better understanding and possibly resolving/addressing the softness issue ( as-well-as some of the other shortfalls). There is a lot I do appreciate and enjoy about my new VT50. I want to keep it; if I can resolve the softness issue when the set displays poorer quality cable/sat programming signals. I want to believe that eventually (and hopefully sometime in the near future) Panasonic will have a Firmware update to correct the CMS/Luminance control issues (and possibly other things). I know the VT50 will never be the perfect set, but nothing will or can ever be. I'm willing to live with some of the other shortfalls, as long as I can get an acceptably sharper result from an external video processor for my HD cable viewing.

Opinion only but I am pessimistic that they will do anything this year. I'm willing to bet any 'fix' will be on next year's set, if at all. (because of their announced intention of going to OLED with Sony)
post #4582 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckg1 View Post

How would you compare the vt50 to vt25 ? Is it a big upgrade or just incremental ?

It is a big upgrade
post #4583 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckg1 View Post

How would you compare the vt50 to vt25 ? Is it a big upgrade or just incremental ?

The improvement in CR is obvious.

The improvement in banding between gradations in luminance and color is much improved.

3D is the same to my eyes.

96 hz is improved quite a bit to my eyes, but some here may disagree.

Physically, it is thinner and lighter...definitely the thinnest plasma I've seen.

But basically, in the big picture of flat panels in the last 5 years it is incremental. I still enjoy my vt25.
post #4584 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

Has anyone had success with using Component Input with the supplied breakout adapter (by success, I mean you get picture and sound)? Just for kicks, I wanted to see if there was any difference in PQ with cable programming if I used the Component output from my new TWC Cisco 8642 DVR to the VT50. I could not get an image on the display, but got the audio. I double and triple checked the cabling and connections on both box and TV, and all are correct and well connected. I tried both the Video and Comp option on the Component input source but only audio comes through the TV on both.

Not sure about this years tv but all previous models can only accept 1080i over component not 1080p. I'd say they didn't change this feature.
post #4585 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post

Not sure about this years tv but all previous models can only accept 1080i over component not 1080p. I'd say they didn't change this feature.

My TWC box will only output below 1080P. Could not get picture at lower resolutions (480i, 720P and/or 1080i) via Component from DVR to the VT50.
post #4586 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckg1 View Post

How would you compare the vt50 to vt25 ? Is it a big upgrade or just incremental ?

I upgraded from a 50vt20 to the 55vt50 and would say it is significant upgrade. The picture on this set can get significantly brighter and darker. It has way more pop to the picture. It holds up to bright room conditions way better than my vt20 did. I also have a sony hx909 and the bezel on the Panasonic is very sleek and appealing similar to the Sony monolithic design. The vt20 blacks always looked gray in a bright room and looked muddy gray in low light scenes in a dark room. The vt50 black level while not perfectly zero light output is always really dark. In low light scenes you will notice the black bars in a dark room, but to my eyes it does not look muddy grey. The vt50 does not have the fluctuating black level issue that the vt25 had. All in all this is a great set and if your happy with the vt25, but feel it could be quite a bit better, then the vt50 is a good choice.
post #4587 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

My TWC box will only output below 1080P. Could not get picture at lower resolutions (480i, 720P and/or 1080i) via Component from DVR to the VT50.

On pretty much all TWC HD Cable Boxes and DVRs, if you have an HDMI cable plugged into it's HDMI port that automatically disables all the analog outputs. So if you left your HDMI cable connected to the STB, remove it and try it again.
post #4588 of 13486
Softness.......sigh

I just compared a local newscast 1080i cable box to TV and 1080i to VP outputting 1080p to the TV. Both are very sharp for this particular channel. Individual strands of hair 2 pixels wide, curved strands of hair, etc., both exactly the same. Also, I can get this channel over the air - same result - sharp.
post #4589 of 13486
Just in case all you VT50 owners want to gloat, heh-heh, check it out:
http://revision3.com/hdnation/panasonic-tc-p65vt5
post #4590 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

Has anyone had success with using Component Input with the supplied breakout adapter (by success, I mean you get picture and sound)? Just for kicks, I wanted to see if there was any difference in PQ with cable programming if I used the Component output from my new TWC Cisco 8642 DVR to the VT50. I could not get an image on the display, but got the audio. I double and triple checked the cabling and connections on both box and TV, and all are correct and well connected. I tried both the Video and Comp option on the Component input source but only audio comes through the TV on both.

Did you completely disconnect the HDMI cable from the DVR when you used component and power off/on the DVR?
If an HDMI cable is connected it will disable the component video output.
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