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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 157

post #4681 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Every reviewer and the shoot out ranked this TV as the best. How can it have so many issues?
Easy, pick a model of any electronics goods in forums and read all about the flaws. Every single item you search has issues in forums. No unit is exempt, as these products are all made by humans. In the end, most people do not even know they have these issues or the issue being discussed is not even present on there exact set.
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post #4682 of 12310
Thoughts on the processing power of a pioneer elite sc 61?
post #4683 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Easy, pick a model of any electronics goods in forums and read all about the flaws. Every single item you search has issues in forums. No unit is exempt, as these products are all made by humans. In the end, most people do not even know they have these issues or the issue being discussed is not even present on there exact set.

nice to the point.
I love this set. Every tv has problems go buy the set and stop reading the fourms like someone said before.
post #4684 of 12310
As mentioned before I just switched from RCN cable to FiOS with their new DVR box CHS435 and I am not experiencing 1080i issues I also ordered the Integra 80.3 Processor with the HQV Vida chip, which is the latest and greatest solution from IDT. This chip is highly regarded, so I will report back once I receive it.
post #4685 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

The grainy look or dithering you are seeing does not seem to be effected by the processing all that much. It is a bit much IMO but also exaggerated by the size of the set. It is also my only gripe with the set instead of the other long laundry list presented over the last week. I will have more info regarding processors tomorrow. Late going to bed.
The only standalone processor I know of in that price range is the DVDO Edge Green ar $399 on Amazon. Several AVRS have built in chips, but it is a bit of a mystery as to what individual controls they will provide. Some are simply scale to 1080P On or Off and others give full control over many picture aspects and enhancements. Again, you do not need a processor most likely. Some folks are clearly benefitting more than others as you have read. My gut is telling me it has more to do with set top boxes because it is obvious to these folks even with a static guide menu between 1080i and 720P. I beleive them 100%, but also know it is not happening to mine and several others here. Damn, I should be in bed. Sorry for the rant. Catch you guys later.

Thanks,I actually own the GT50 (was concidering an upgrade at one point) but the grainy dithering in the back ground is present on both models. I agree that it is my only real beef with these TV's. Since the processor's don't seem to help with this issue, i think i will just keep what i have and and enjoy the otherwise amazing PQ.smile.gif
post #4686 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by YES90125 View Post

As mentioned before I just switched from RCN cable to FiOS with their new DVR box CHS435 and I am not experiencing 1080i issues I also ordered the Integra 80.3 Processor with the HQV Vida chip, which is the latest and greatest solution from IDT. This chip is highly regarded, so I will report back once I receive it.

The Onkyo that I am installing at this very moment has that chip. I am running an update which is taking forever. As soon as it is done, I am going to get my first look at what this chip can do. Will update.
post #4687 of 12310
Have people actually put the VT50 side by side with another display of comparable picture quality to see if these "softness, graininess, flattening" etc. "issues" are really the VT50's fault?

In the computer industry, we have a saying "garbage in, garbage out". In the CRT days, I had Sony studio monitors, and while they looked great with nice quality input, they also readily showed the flaws af bad quality input. I didn't blame the monitors, though.

Every HD input source is compressed video. I'm not going to be convinced that the VT50 has a problem without side-by-side comparisons, and I sure wouldn't want Panasonic to start overprocessing video to cover up flaws with poor quality input material at the expense of picture quality with good quality input material. I want to see as accurate a representation of the video as possible, good or bad.

Michael
post #4688 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

The Onkyo that I am installing at this very moment has that chip. I am running an update which is taking forever. As soon as it is done, I am going to get my first look at what this chip can do. Will update.

That will be awesome, look forward to hearing from you..
post #4689 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Have people actually put the VT50 side by side with another display of comparable picture quality to see if these "softness, graininess, flattening" etc. "issues" are really the VT50's fault?
In the computer industry, we have a saying "garbage in, garbage out". In the CRT days, I had Sony studio monitors, and while they looked great with nice quality input, they also readily showed the flaws af bad quality input. I didn't blame the monitors, though.
Every HD input source is compressed video. I'm not going to be convinced that the VT50 has a problem without side-by-side comparisons, and I sure wouldn't want Panasonic to start overprocessing video to cover up flaws with poor quality input material at the expense of picture quality with good quality input material. I want to see as accurate a representation of the video as possible, good or bad.
Michael

I couldn't agree more with this statement. You also need to consider that different technology Plasma vs LCD/LED also have different visual attributes that contribute to your perception of the picture quality. So you really need to compare apples with apples not apples with oranges. tongue.gif
post #4690 of 12310
Did anyone try using David Katzmaier's settings on CNET? How does it compare to Troopers settings? I don't want to bother switching if its not worth it. BTW..is there a way to add and store multiple settings in custom mode that you can choose from or are you stuck with one stored setting at a time?
post #4691 of 12310
The cnet settings are the result of a real d65 calibration, but this is usually not something that can be copied to other sets with good results (but you can still use them as a starting point, i.e., without the custom color and white balance). Topper's settings are just his personal preference, and would actually be way off from a real calibration because he has switched to a cooler color tone (but it seems he has also used posted settings as a starting point).
post #4692 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by YES90125 View Post

Did anyone try using David Katzmaier's settings on CNET? How does it compare to Troopers settings? I don't want to bother switching if its not worth it. BTW..is there a way to add and store multiple settings in custom mode that you can choose from or are you stuck with one stored setting at a time?

Change Contrast 1 single click and you have a 50/50 chance of improving your picture. Use all of the settings from someone else's calibration and the odds remain the same.
post #4693 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by YES90125 View Post

BTW..is there a way to add and store multiple settings in custom mode that you can choose from or are you stuck with one stored setting at a time?

1 setting per input so place one "calibration" in HDMI1, another in HDMI2, etc.
post #4694 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Some of the folks here are comming from a 60" set. Many more of us are comming from 50" or 52" sets. You are adding up to 15 inches of real estate! When I got my Kuro, I noticed dithering in the background and it drove me nuts, and this was on 50". Once I stopped analyzing the picture and started watching the actual content, my eyes relaxed and I stopped seeing it complely. Now this does not explain everything, but it does need to be taken into account.
As far as equipment being used, I think the important aspect is the STB. I have an HR-100 DVR from Directv and I have ZERO issues with 1080i with some 1080i content looking truly amazing while others look lack luster at best as is expected. It would be helpful to tally what type of STB's are being used for those that are and are not seeing an issue with a simple static on-screen guide switching from 720P to 1080i output from the stb.
I will tell you waht folks. Most of you would be absolutely miserable with the Sharp 80". If you want to talk about bad pixelation and artifacting, go look at one of those being fed cable/sat content and then come talk to me. And I do not fault the sets electronics as much as I do the size for these issues.

I've never heard of the Directv HR-100, are you sure you got that right? Is all of you video running through hdmi?

What equipment did you use to calibrate your tv? Which disks do you use when you state that you're testing?

It's important to know this information in order for me and others to clearly understand what you're saying and seeing and/or to relate it to our own experiences. Thanks.
post #4695 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I have that option, too. I will be trying it out once the new Harmony is set up and we can bring the Denon online.
Yes, ht, I'm not testing any 720p channels. They honestly look as expected. All-Star Game, NBA Finals, random selection of TV on Fox (although mostly Gordon Ramsay since it's summer, probably not the best test material) looks as sharp as you'd think it would.
This could be true SiGGy.
I think, to be honest the "have something else deinterlace the 1080i" test will prove conclusive in one of two ways:
1) The TV is soft with interlaced content for some reason due to deinterlacing weirdness.
2) The source material is soft and it's now noticeable on a big TV.
I'll try my Denon as soon as a I can and have it just output 1080p for everything.

Rogo, have you had a chance to check out the Denon yet?
post #4696 of 12310
post #4697 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by flmsrgn View Post

Well, well well. I just hooked up the above mentioned AVR. I did a very quick and basic set up, only connecting the TWC DVR to the SR6006 via HDMI to the 65VT50 and set the output resolution to 1080P. Turned on the STB and WOW!!! Immediately saw a HUGE improvement regarding PQ. The picture is smooth, crisp and I must say significantly sharper. Even the TWC DVR menu screen, when viewing a 1080i programming signal is sharp. Not like it was before. The text in the guide/menu screen was ALWAYS soft when the box was at 1080i. It was sharp when I switched the box's output to 720P. Now it is sharp regardless with the AVR scaling/converting to 1080P. The processing chip is superior (IMO) to that within the VT50 when handling lower quality signals. There are picture controls within the AVR for adjusting DNR, and edge enhancement (which I will play with later), but my initial reaction in improved PQ (specifically sharpness) gave my "goose bumps". More to come.

Very good to hear. Those who own the V2312 may very well have the same result since the 6006 is essentially a clone of the 3312CI.
post #4698 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

The cnet settings are the result of a real d65 calibration, but this is usually not something that can be copied to other sets with good results (but you can still use them as a starting point, i.e., without the custom color and white balance). Topper's settings are just his personal preference, and would actually be way off from a real calibration because he has switched to a cooler color tone (but it seems he has also used posted settings as a starting point).

The CNET settings are for the ST50 though. Where are the settings for the VT50? Are they hidden somewhere?
post #4699 of 12310
post #4700 of 12310

Looking at the linked calibration report it appears that there might have been a bad read at 50% white. I've seen nothing like that. Also, the gamma dip at 90% is a bit weird. Why didn't they adjust it? The real gamma problem I've seen on two VT50s is that even though 80, 90, and 100% are flat, 85 is high and 95 is low.
post #4701 of 12310

I also have a DirecTV HR-100, but that's not it.
post #4702 of 12310
Don't you mean HRXX-100. 20,21,23,24,34?
post #4703 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

Don't you mean HRXX-100. 20,21,23,24,34?

That's what I was thinking but it I wasn't sure it wasn't actually a very old model. Also, I believe that some of those performs differently as far as video processing is concerned.

I'm wondering if he has the HR20?
post #4704 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

The Onkyo that I am installing at this very moment has that chip. I am running an update which is taking forever. As soon as it is done, I am going to get my first look at what this chip can do. Will update.


Updates please? smile.gif
post #4705 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

Don't you mean HRXX-100. 20,21,23,24,34?

That's what I was thinking but it I wasn't sure it wasn't actually a very old model. Also, I believe that some of those performs differently as far as video processing is concerned.

I'm wondering if he has the HR20?

Sorry, was not paying attention. Its the HR24-100
post #4706 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

The Onkyo that I am installing at this very moment has that chip. I am running an update which is taking forever. As soon as it is done, I am going to get my first look at what this chip can do. Will update.


Updates please? smile.gif

Ok I will provide a better update when I have more time. Long story short, the processor is quite good and if the AVR suited me better overall I would keep it. But here is the skinny. I can add edge enhancement as Low Medium and High. Even low looks crisper but it also adds artifacts and makes the image look harsh. But set on low, the positives almost outweigh the negatives.
Out of either processor I have tried, it is not possible to make the image any sharper without introducing harshness and artifacts although not to obvious on low. Passing 1080P directly to the set has never once shown me to be of any benefit or proven to be doing a better job than the set itself.

The Onkyo did not feel right to me for other than video reasons, and is already boxed up. Of all the testing I have done with these processors, I am much more confident in claiming that my particular setup has zero issues with 1080i and the image being produced is about as pure and clean as I have seen in a television. My Kuro may have been a little better at crap content, but I do not watch crap. Anything that is not overly compressed looks excellent. Aside from a little more dithering than I would like, I am 100% satisfied with the set and stand by my review word for word. I will be adding a section regarding the dithering however.

Will try to articulate a bit better when I have time later.

For those that can't seem to figure out my setup. I am normally running HDMI from HR24-100 to my Yamaha RX-V671 and then to the set. Not rocket science. For the time being, I am back to having the DUO Green in between the DVR and the AVR. It can sharpen the image but at a cost.
Edited by TopperMcFly - 7/21/12 at 4:39pm
post #4707 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

Don't you mean HRXX-100. 20,21,23,24,34?

You're absolutely right! It's a HR20-100.
post #4708 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Ok I will provide a better update when I have more time. Long story short, the processor is quite good and if the AVR suited me better overall I would keep it. But here is the skinny. I can add edge enhancement as Low Medium and High. Even low looks crisper but it also adds artifacts and makes the image look harsh. Out of either processor I have tried, it is not possible to make the image any sharper without introducing harshness and artifacts although not to obvious on low. Passing 1080P directly to the set has never once shown me to be of any benefit or proven to be doing a better job than the set itself.
The Onkyo did not feel right to me for other than video reasons, and is already boxed up. Of all the testing I have done with these processors, I am much more confident in claiming that my particular setup has zero issues with 1080i and the image being produced is about as pure and clean as I have seen in a television. My Kuro may have been a lttle better at crap content, but I do not watch crap. Anything that is not overly compressed looks excellent. Aside from a little more dithering than I would like, I am 100% satisfied with the set and stand by my review word for word. I will be adding a section regarding the dithering however.
Will try to articulate abit better when I have time later.

Thanks, I am afraid that is where I am headed as well. I already have a Pio Elite AVR with the ABT1015 that feeds the TV, and I am very happy with the picture. GIGO is right, and no set is perfect. No external VPs for me, for now. Thanks again.
post #4709 of 12310
The 24 and I believe 34 use a different color space than the other receivers.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1261935/directv-hr-24-hdmi-brightness
post #4710 of 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

The 24 and I believe 34 use a different color space than the other receivers.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1261935/directv-hr-24-hdmi-brightness

Yes HR24 is YCbCr444 BT.709 24 bit
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