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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 170

post #5071 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Huh, I watched 3 Blu-rays using Zoom + Size 1 and they looked spectacular. I tried Size 2 but it stretched out the picture too much for my tastes. I didn't spend much time comparing the Full and Zoom aspects back and forth but I have 20/20 and Zoom + Size looks much better to me than a Perfectly Just Scan. I think I just enjoy the fact that it shows much more detail in the actors faces which gives me a theatre like feel. If more directors used the 1.85:1 cameras it wouldn't matter. Mel Gibson had the right idea with Apocalypto. Whatever camera he used was amazing because that Blu-Ray transfer is one of the best I've seen. almost as good as Avatar imo.
Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why some people are so against letterboxing. I bought this TV so I could watch movies the way they were originally presented. The screenshots in this article does a good job showing what you might miss out on by cutting of the sides of those wide shots:
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/053/053556p1.html
And there's this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMJhM3So4y8&feature=player_embedded
The sections on Lawrence of Arabia and Ben Hur are excellent.

Couldn't you say that for every big screen tv?

Anyways, those were the worst possible examples imo. I watched the first 2 Lord of Rings movies with Zoom + Size 1 and it seemed like every shot was perfectly cutoff. Characters faces were rarely cutoff and almost always perfectly centered in close up and scenes felt very intimate due to being able to see so much detail in their faces. I suppose if you are the type of person who focuses more on scenery then the characters than Zoom would ruin the experience but for me it adds to it.
Or maybe I should have just gotten the 65in. I promised myself no more than 2k for a TV though. I mean I didn't even spend that much for my PC setup and I have a fully gaming capable PC with a 2560 x 1440p monitor. (imported straight from South Korea of course) : )
post #5072 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Huh, I watched 3 Blu-rays using Zoom + Size 1 and they looked spectacular. I tried Size 2 but it stretched out the picture too much for my tastes. I didn't spend much time comparing the Full and Zoom aspects back and forth but I have 20/20 and Zoom + Size looks much better to me than a Perfectly Just Scan. I think I just enjoy the fact that it shows much more detail in the actors faces which gives me a theatre like feel. If more directors used the 1.85:1 cameras it wouldn't matter. Mel Gibson had the right idea with Apocalypto. Whatever camera he used was amazing because that Blu-Ray transfer is one of the best I've seen. almost as good as Avatar imo.

I guess what I was trying to convey is that enlarging, zooming, or overscanning (i.e. Zoom and/or HDMI "Size 1") will/should produce inferior resolution as opposed to "Full" with HDMI "Size 2". Besides the resolution/sharpness degradation with overscanning (and/or zooming, etc) you lose picture information, which I realize does not seem to bother some people.
post #5073 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Yeah, I had tried this onkyo once already more for the VP, but like you I found the vt50 did not need a VP. But I must say that edge enhancement on low was actually kind of nice on some content.
Are you asking about video settings on the Onkyo or the VT? smile.gif
If the VT, yeah, mine! LoL
If the Onkyo, I would prolly use it simply to pass 1080p for my Directv.
As for my ps3/bluray player, I may toy with some things, but I want to verify that I can pass 24p directly without the AVR fiddling with it. If I can't I will make that input pass through.
Will post my impressions and settings later in the week. Thanks for the reply.
PS Try pausing a clean shot of a face (eyes specifically) and try Edge Enhance on low. You will see the detail sharpen over a period of about 3 seconds. I like doing that and going back and forth. It really does seem to make a bit of a difference.


I am going to play around as well. Edge enhancement does improve perceived sharpness of stationary images for me, however, I feel with motion - not necessarily fast-paced motion - it introduces artifacts and actually makes it worse for me. At least that is my perception for now. I too am passing through blu-ray, for cable I am doing the up conversion/scaling within the AVR, and it seems to do a pretty good job. My HD content via xfinity (1080i) is looking better with the Onkyo - compared to my Pio Elite previously.
post #5074 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

Couldn't you say that for every big screen tv?
Anyways, those were the worst possible examples imo. I watched the first 2 Lord of Rings movies with Zoom + Size 1 and it seemed like every shot was perfectly cutoff. Characters faces were rarely cutoff and almost always perfectly centered in close up and scenes felt very intimate due to being able to see so much detail in their faces. I suppose if you are the type of person who focuses more on scenery then the characters than Zoom would ruin the experience but for me it adds to it.

I wanted to see just how much of an impact Zoom has on the picture, so I loaded a calibration disc and put the Overscan pattern on the TV at Size 2. Size 2 fits a perfect set of 16x9 tiles on the screen. When you go to Zoom mode, you get 11x6 tiles on the screen, so in Zoom you only see 46% of the original image displayed. Someone smarter than me can tell me if my math is wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've got it right. We finally get TV's that eliminate the overscan of the past and you go the polar opposite. rolleyes.gif

The LOTR movies are a horrible example of what Zoom does especially in scenes like the Charge of the Rohirrim in Return of the King, and the Battle of Helms Deep when Gandalf comes over the ridge. The sense of scale is completely lost when you don't have the 2.40:1 OAR. It's not about not liking a more intimate image and preferring to watch the scenery go by. it's about the emotional perspective that the image on the screen provides you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice That Jaw View Post

I was playing around with the aspect ratios while watching Blu-Rays and I have to say, for films with the black bars like 2.4:1, using the Zoom option is incredible! You would think that zooming in that far would degrade the quality and blur it but it doesn't at all. On Zoom, details like peoples skin & hair, cloth, carpet, wood, rock, etc are so much impressive and in your face. To be honest, I couldn't care less about cutting off the sides the picture because I have always thought those really wide pans were pointless. I want to feel intimate with the characters, not the environment. With Zoom it feels more like 1.85:1 that TV series' use, which is great.
I'm still pretty awed at how sharp it looks on Zoom. It loses maybe 5% of the sharpness, either way not enough to make me put up with the black bars; that for sure.

Your comment on 1.85:1 tells me you hate any sort of matting and use Zoom to eliminate it. Like Topper said though, to each his own I guess. Just realize that you're not just cutting off the sides. Since Zoom shows the exact center of the image, you're cutting off the top and bottom as well.
Edited by robnix - 7/30/12 at 9:07pm
post #5075 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

I am going to play around as well. Edge enhancement does improve perceived sharpness of stationary images for me, however, I feel with motion - not necessarily fast-paced motion - it introduces artifacts and actually makes it worse for me. At least that is my perception for now. I too am passing through blu-ray, for cable I am doing the up conversion/scaling within the AVR, and it seems to do a pretty good job. My HD content via xfinity (1080i) is looking better with the Onkyo - compared to my Pio Elite previously.
What pioneer did u previosly have? im interested getting the sc61
post #5076 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

The natural look, in my opinion, makes the VT50 picture better
I couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago I was considering jumping to the Elite, but in my opinion, for that price, I would want it to at least be better than the vt50 in every category. Sadly though it loses out in everything except black levels compared to the vt50. However, with bias lighting, the blacks look damn near absolute black on the vt50.

So I will wait and see what the 2nd Gen Elite has to offer and if I am still not satisfied with LED LCD tech, then I will surely just wait until there is an OLED of comparable size to my 65vt50.smile.gif
post #5077 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Famouss View Post

I couldn't agree more. A few weeks ago I was considering jumping to the Elite, but in my opinion, for that price, I would want it to at least be better than the vt50 in every category. Sadly though it loses out in everything except black levels compared to the vt50. However, with bias lighting, the blacks look damn near absolute black on the vt50.
So I will wait and see what the 2nd Gen Elite has to offer and if I am still not satisfied with LED LCD tech, then I will surely just wait until there is an OLED of comparable size to my 65vt50.smile.gif

Black level is better in ON/OFF contrast only and if you are watching a solid black picture the Elite is a sure winner. However, last I checked, we usually watch mixed content where ANSI Contrast is a representative measurement.

post #5078 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ss10zidane View Post

What pioneer did u previosly have? im interested getting the sc61

I think that is a good choice. I have the VSX-23TXH, which had the ABT-1015 for video scaling duties. The newer SCs have the marvell Qdeo which is a much better chip. The biggest upgrade that I feel I have made by switching out the Pioneer for the Onkyo is in the room correction. The MultEQ®XT32, in my opinion, is superior in every way imaginable to the MCACC in the Pioneer. Now I don't know what improvements pioneer has incorporated into their correction software in the 4 years since I bought mine, but setting the Onkyo right after the Pioneer in the same room with the same speakers was remarkably different. For that purpose alone, I would buy an Audessey equipped AVR - may I suggest the Denon 4311Ci (EE has them on special right now for 1350 shipped, just verified today). Having said that the SC series is no slouch, and it kinda boils down to personal preference. Hope it helps!
post #5079 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

I think that is a good choice. I have the VSX-23TXH, which had the ABT-1015 for video scaling duties. The newer SCs have the marvell Qdeo which is a much better chip. The biggest upgrade that I feel I have made by switching out the Pioneer for the Onkyo is in the room correction. The MultEQ®XT32, in my opinion, is superior in every way imaginable to the MCACC in the Pioneer. Now I don't know what improvements pioneer has incorporated into their correction software in the 4 years since I bought mine, but setting the Onkyo right after the Pioneer in the same room with the same speakers was remarkably different. For that purpose alone, I would buy an Audessey equipped AVR - may I suggest the Denon 4311Ci (EE has them on special right now for 1350 shipped, just verified today). Having said that the SC series is no slouch, and it kinda boils down to personal preference. Hope it helps!
are u talking about the auto calibration differences?
post #5080 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ss10zidane View Post

are u talking about the auto calibration differences?

Yup
post #5081 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

I would love to have Chad do the Audyssey Pro Calibration on my Denon 3311 if he came to calibrate my TVs but the audio calibration is even more then the display calibration! I will have a hard time justifying getting my TV(s) calibrated to the wife let alone spending even more on the audio. Do you notice THAT much of a difference?

I noticed a big difference on both the picture and the audio. THX on my set has a green push, Chad was able to get rid of the green push in ISF mode, I'm pretty sure the light output is greater as well. Another thing that I noticed that I am really happy about is that I see less dithering after the calibration. The settings on my AVR were all jacked up, I had a hard time hearing voices from the center. I'm sure I did all kinds of things wrong on the settings. I don't know anything about how to configure speakers in the AVR. I don't regret for one minute having Chad calibrate the TV and the AVR.
post #5082 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It would be great if you went back to your original post and made your correction there. There is an "edit" ikon in the lower left corner. smile.gif

Done. Sorry about that!
post #5083 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rashid81 View Post

Yup
i currently have an old sony receiver never used the auto calibration on it, just changed the levels according to what sounded good to me? am i messing up? is it always best to do the auto cal?
post #5084 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffscott72 View Post

I noticed a big difference on both the picture and the audio. THX on my set has a green push, Chad was able to get rid of the green push in ISF mode, I'm pretty sure the light output is greater as well. Another thing that I noticed that I am really happy about is that I see less dithering after the calibration. The settings on my AVR were all jacked up, I had a hard time hearing voices from the center. I'm sure I did all kinds of things wrong on the settings. I don't know anything about how to configure speakers in the AVR. I don't regret for one minute having Chad calibrate the TV and the AVR.
i currently have trouble hearing voices from the center as well, have you looked at your new settings recently and have you found out what the problem was with that?
post #5085 of 13480
What would be the best bluray content to test 24p on 55 tv50 ? any specific movies? I was thinking transformers and dark knight?
post #5086 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffscott72 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

It would be great if you went back to your original post and made your correction there. There is an "edit" ikon in the lower left corner. smile.gif

Done. Sorry about that!
Thanks. That will make a big difference when readers come to your calibration post from the calibration report lists instead of through this thread. smile.gif
post #5087 of 13480
New firmware is now available,don't know what it does,will find out after i return from work
post #5088 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmd1 View Post

New firmware is now available,don't know what it does,will find out after i return from work

For one thing, I can see that the Luminance controls are working! What the hell are we going to have to complain about with these damn sets? This latest patch will do absolutely nothing in terms of helping people that purchashed an Elite feel better about their choice. Isn't there enough pain and suffering in the world? wink.gif
post #5089 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

For one thing, I can see that the Luminance controls are working! What the hell are we going to have to complain about with these damn sets? This latest patch will do absolutely nothing in terms of helping people that purchashed an Elite feel better about their choice. Isn't there enough pain and suffering in the world? wink.gif

Great news!!! Looks like we have some work ahead. biggrin.gif
post #5090 of 13480
How do you get the new software? Doesn't the TV notify you when new SW is available?
Edited by TWD - 7/31/12 at 5:27am
post #5091 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

How do you get the new software? Doesn't the TV notify you when new SW is available?

Click the big green viera button.
post #5092 of 13480
Went to the network button on the main menu and updated that way. So you are saying that if you click on the green Internet button, the tv will automatically check for updates and tell you that an update is available?
post #5093 of 13480
Seeing the discussion around the Size options...

Is is possible that the perceived differences in 1080i "softness" between the owners can be related to having the different Size parameters in place? Mine is "off."

kdg
post #5094 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romier S View Post

So I have been the owner of a Panasonic VT25 for the last three years or so. I say that because there was a great deal to love about the set and I've enjoyed having it in my home. Though I must admit that the enjoyment of it has been through gritted teeth. Despite some exhaustive research when I bought it, I started noticing the floating blacks on the TV and have lived with them ever since. What good is having a set with great black levels when it can't maintain them and I feel like I'm watching a freaking strobe light go off!?
Anyways, here we are today and frankly I've had about all I can stand with it and am looking into purchasing a VT50. I have not read through this massive thread but I wanted to ask owners and folks in the know - does the VT50 in any way suffer from the floating black problems the VT25 had? I've done some searches online and it appears that those issues were resolved with the VT35 but before I spend the money on another Panasonic television - I need to be 100% sure that I won't have to deal with the problem ever again cause it's a total deal breaker for me.
Thanks for the help!

Roomier S,

I have had the vt 25 since it came out and I think I have resolved the floating black issue on my set by doing this. I updated the latest firmware,set the black level to dark ,set gamma to 1.8 ,all in custom mode .Try and see if this works .My overall black level seems improved and by using 1.8 gamma I retained the shadow detail. My picture overall looks improved.
post #5095 of 13480
TopperMcFly, would your settings still work with new firmware?
post #5096 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwegrzyn View Post

TopperMcFly, would your settings still work with new firmware?

I am thinking yes, but I need to verify that later tonight when I get home. It depends on the implementaion of the luminance controls. They will be either functional and only have an effect if you adjust them from the default position, or they are functional and even at the default position they may have some influence on the existing picture charcteristics. If they implemented this correctly, we will be all set. If the latter, even people that paid for a calibration will be shelling out some more dollars.

I would bet money we are all set by leaving them defaulted.
post #5097 of 13480
Does this mean picture will get better? What about folks that done isf calibration will that have an impact? That will suck if it does
post #5098 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ss10zidane View Post

Does this mean picture will get better? What about folks that done isf calibration will that have an impact? That will suck if it does

See my above post. If all goes well, you will be fine. Granted, those getting a calibration post update may get a slightly tighter calibration report that may or may not even be perceptible to the eye.
post #5099 of 13480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

See my above post. If all goes well, you will be fine. Granted, those getting a calibration post update may get a slightly tighter calibration report that may or may not even be perceptible to the eye.
I haven't had a calibration yet but for those ppl that have man, it's still better even tho it's hard to tell Post luminance cally
post #5100 of 13480
ISF Day calibration. Luminance controls are now working normally but the 95% Gamma interpolation problem still exists.

ISF Day 31July_S.pdf 470k .pdf file
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