Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 191

I came from the ES8000 Samsung LED and I can personally tell you the VT50 smokes it by miles and miles. There is no comparison. If you look at the shootout results of the ES8000, it did very poor in just about every category. I am a first time Plasma user with the VT50 and always had my doubts about Plasma's. After reading the rave reviews and not being happy with my ES8000, I decided to pull the trigger on the VT50 and boy, I can tell you I am happier than ever. Makes me wonder why I always doubted Plasma tech. My wife is also much happier with the VT50 since she can sit anywhere in the room and enjoy the same picture I am. The problem with the ES8000 was at night time, everything got washed out and dull. Blacks were absolutely horrible (especially when watching letterbox movies)

I am so happy I made the jump to the VT50 and it is also good on my mind knowing its the best TV you can get on the market today.

That's what the salesman says.... A long time ago I got to work with the first generation bladecenter servers from IBM. To save space they used laptop disk drives that were "specially selected by IBM to be only the finest." They're still laptop drives and they really don't like a 100% duty cycle. If you really believe Sharp cherry picks the Elite panel you might want to consider just exactly how they might do that in a production line. What do they do? Plug each panel into a display and run test patterns through it?

The Sharp Elite is still a quattron panel with a bogus yellow sub-pixel that can't be accurate because there's no "Y" in "RGB". It is a brighter display because it's an LCD. It has better black levels, on axis, because of local dimming but the algorithm for controlling the backlight is flaky. It has inferior color fidelity.

And this is still the Panasonic VT50 owners thread....

$7000 it alot of monry the spend on a tv. The tv can't be that good if the vt50 won in the shootout. For 7000 it should have won hand down so the tv is no better then the vt50.
the tv should have no problem for that price.

end of story.

I love my vt50

That's what I'm saying. I would get the VT50 even if they were the same price. I can't believe how much my picture continued to improve after the first 100 hours.

Just out of curiousity, how much does the black level improve after break in? The are already super black! I'm not really sure how my eye will see any better blacks than what I am already treated with. But I can see a meter picking up better blacks after the first 100-200 hours. I'm new to plasma and pretty amazed how the picture gets better over the course of 100-200 hours. Can someone explain how this proccess happens? I'm watching Bolt right now, and the blacks and depth are just stunning! I do think the picture is getting better every day it seems, Especially when all of the lights are out.

Is there an availability issue with these sets? Looks like stock is low on the 65 on Amazon, at least... Any idea what's going on?

Direct TV...When I had my 55inch DLP I never noticed football being so blurry. Now I notice it all the time..

there appear to have been some spot shortages in the production flow of the 65VT50 for short periods over the past month or so.
but it picks up rather quickly, so its probably just more flucuating. the manufacturers are probably just being cautious in production quantity, since they don't want to get stuck with too much inventory like happened last year.
Edited by BriscoCountyJr - 8/14/12 at 6:19pm

agree 100% as i was on this boat as well. i have never been more disapointed in the elite do to the pulsing issues that was produced by the ld. to this day i can't believe they haven't eliminated this. my 8500 and 929 never had a glimpse of this issue. anyway back to the vt50 excellent set,excellent value...

Agreed, thanks for the link.

I would say your IR would be in this category:

2 - Residual charge - Plasma displays use dielectric charges to control the on or off states of the pixel. If there is a slight residual charge left when the pixel is turned off the next time it turns on the pixel will be slightly brighter than normal. This will show up as a ghost image on a dark screen. You can tell it is residual charge because the ghost image is slightly brighter than the dark background. This ghost image is transient and easily removed by either a full white screen or watching full screen material for a few hours.

Michael

Final IR Clean-up Update:

So I've been away on vacation for 6 days. I had gotten the NBC Olympics logo IR reduced to a point where it was a "smudge" that was only visible in one gradient of white, and no color slides. I couldn't notice it in normal content, but I decided to see if I could clean it up 100%. So, before leaving for vacation, I made the (certainly overkill) decision to leave my VT50 on the white slide (treatment for MgO sputtering) for 6 entire consecutive days.

Well, I just returned, and as hard as I try to find any IR, the TV is as good as new. 100% clean. Of course, having to leave your TV on for 6 days is a bit excessive, so I probably would have been fine just ignoring it and watching normal content, but it's good to know after conducting this experiment that the IR is 100% reversible.

As a side note, I find it ironic that Panasonic was the official TV sponsor of the Olympics. You would think that they would lobby NBC to shift their logo around between commercials, or something like that. I got a PM from a Samsung user with the same problem (2011 "D" model), only his sounds worse. Such an easy problem to solve, IMO.

You mean it hasn't already been out? It was included with my Panasonic Blu-ray player from last year.

Someone posted earlier (an expert calibrator I believe) that theSharp Elite does not have better blacks than the VT50 on real life content. The ANSI checkered board contrast is better on the VT50. The better blacks on the Sharp Elites are only better with a full black screen, when the panel actually shuts down. Just what I eat, and I might even be saying it wrong. Still, my understanding is VT50 blacks are better than the Sharp Elite's with real life content.

Great experiment! Thanks for posting.

I'll also keep it in mind for the 2016 Olympics.

Michael

Thanks very much for your test.
My IR from the NBC Olympics logo is also down to just a "smudge" that is barely noticeable close up on only one of the dark gray slides now.
Gives me confidence even that faint smudge will eventually disappear, thanks to your test.

I guess it might as I can never detect any IR. Of course, my settings are not yours. But that said, I am using a lot of THX Bright Room, so my settings may be driving the panel even harder than yours....


It should go without saying that there is no Kuro technology in the Sharp Elite. It is in fact idiotic to conclude that there is any. The Kuro technology specifically relates to plasmas. It has no meaningful applicability to LCDs. To the extent that any Kuro technology at all has filtered into the Sharp Elite, it's on the margins of the margins of the margins.

I can tell you that Sharp has no means to cherry pick panels for Elites. I am certain of this. It is perhaps possible they have some secondary protocol to reject panels at some very early stage of the Elite assembly process, but because of the way things work, I really, really doubt it. You have to make the entire panel to test it. Once you have done that, all panels get a very, very cursory test. It's simply not practical to do cherry picking because to do that, you'd have to test every panel extensively to find the better ones. That's not affordable. So all you can do is try to take ones that you believe are good and send them off to Elite assembly. Once they are they, it's very difficult to believe they ever come back. I've watched several LCD factory videos and I don't see any method that would allow cherry picking. Sorry.

It is good to have it confirmed. Some of us already knew, even though some of you were skeptical.

Are you sure about this? Because panel sorting is exactly what LG does- at least with their IPS LCD PC monitors.

There is a new eBay trend of buying "Korean" made (and sold) monitors that use the same exact LG IPS panel that is in the Apple Cinema display, only they're found in much, much cheaper brands. We're talking a price of $400 vs $900-1000 for the same 2560x1440 IPS panel. This is justified based on LG's IPS panel sorting, which the vendors themselves have "exposed". They rate panels with an A+, A, A-, B+, etc. based on the number and severity of defects. Apple, Dell, etc. get A+ and A panels because they pay a premium for them. Crossover, Catleap, etc. get an A- panel due to some defects. I've had 4 Crossovers, all with different defects. The black levels are never all that great, there is blooming, and I've had stuck pixels on all but one of them. Another one had bad uniformity. But the PQ otherwise is phenomenal, especially for the price!

Bottom line though, is that there IS panel sorting going on at LG, it IS practical (at least for 2560x1440 PC monitors), and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that Sharp is doing it with their Elite panels. I think it goes without saying, but watching "LCD factory videos" isn't going to make you an expert in LCD panel manufacturing- especially if there are (undoubtedly) company secrets in the manufacturing process . I know that my company has published videos explaining the manufacturing process of our high-performance ASICs, but I can tell you that we're leaving a lot out for a variety of reasons. Best not to make assumptions.

Been following this thread for some time now. Pulled the trigger last Wednesday at BB then delivered the 65VT50 Friday. After setting up the display and playing with the various setups I entered some calibrated settings. I have two words that don't even come close to my experience, "blown away" - I've been viewing from a 65813 mit for over 14 years...
Each day and night been running the colored slides with the exception couple hours a day I watch sat-tv. Each day I can see a remarkable difference with the accuracy of this display. I'm about 125hrs into all this.
Thinking after today I'll stop the slide show -

A friend has a kuro (which is what motivated me to buy) my complements and hats off to Panasonic. You did well, congrats!!

A thank you, TopperMcFly thanks for your input you have helped me and thanks to everyone else.

Dude if you're going to continue to come into these Panasonic threads to bash Panasonic, you should have at least educated yourself about how Pioneer was fragmented before making yourself look like an uninformed idiot. And learn to read what others are saying.

1. Panasonic bought 100% of Pioneer's Plasma technology lock stock and barrel for something like $66 million.

2. Panasonic has stated that Pioneer's Kuro technology is not compatible with Panasonic's plasma technology, and they have never claimed or even insinuated that they're using Kuro technology. They don't need to actually use the technology - but they have learned from it. How do you think Samsung learned how to make Plasmas and LCD TVs? They stole patents from Pioneer and Sharp, that's how.

3. Panasonic hired most of Pioneer's engineers - some before Pioneer stopped making displays, and more after their TV division was shut down. These engineers have been working with Panasonic's engineers to develop their displays ever since so the same great minds that created Kuro are now creating Panasonics, and that knowledge is showing with the new 2012 models. My GT50 image looks more Kuro-like than any Plasma in history.

4. Sharp hired a small percentage of Pioneer's engineers, and they in turn helped develop the excellent Sharp Elite LED TV.

5. Sharp aquired the right to use the Pioneer's Elite name, but they did not buy any of Pioneer's plasma technology - that is now owned by Panasonic lock stock and barrel. Sharp has nothing to do with it.

Can you please provide any references to this? Otherwise I believe it would be best if people stop saying these things. It just perpetuates what is possibly myth unless some form of published proof can be had. Samsung also has it's own documented contributions (patents) to both technologies.

RCA was at the forefront with LCD.

http://www.lcd-displays-manufacturers.com/sUserFiles/Upload/LCD_History_Blaze_Display.pdf

Does anyone know if there is any benefit to processing 1080i (motorola STB) or 480p (Sony progessive DVD player) video signals thru a Pioneer Elite VSX-32's Marvell Qdeo video chip and then passing the signal (1080p) to the VT50 for display or just turning off the Elite's processing and allowing the VT50 to do the heavy lifting? I haven't noticed a difference myself.

So can anyone help me with the motion blur that I am seeing when I watch football? Everything else about the TV is GREAT but I have really noticed that when watching football the picture can get very blurry, especially when a QB throws a dart and the camera has to move fast to catch the action. I NEVER noticed this on my DLP 55' Samsung. Now, I notice it on almost every throw the QB makes and its very discouraging. I use Vivid mode. I tried to use ISF day/night but I just cant get used to the yellowish tint it has. So on Vivid Mode my setting are:

Motion smoother - weak
3:2 pulldown - Auto
HDMI Source
Service provider - Direct TV.

Any suggestions on what I can do to reduce the blur? Do I move the motion smoother to Medium or Strong? Would changing the sharpness help at all? I currently have it at +78 as that is what the default was.

Any help would really be appreciated.

Set Motion Smoother :Mid and
3:2 Pulldown :OFF

Mr Waters has no proof just his usual party line, there is no reason to expect anything different from him.

jarias: That's a lot of sharpness (edge enhancement), which can introduce artifact that can wreck an HD signal. Try turning it off (0) and see if that helps.

google is your friend

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Press-Room/Pioneer-Information/Pioneer+Wins+Patent+Infringement+Suit+Against+Samsung+SDI