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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 191

post #5701 of 13462
Just out of curiousity, how much does the black level improve after break in? The are already super black! I'm not really sure how my eye will see any better blacks than what I am already treated with. But I can see a meter picking up better blacks after the first 100-200 hours. I'm new to plasma and pretty amazed how the picture gets better over the course of 100-200 hours. Can someone explain how this proccess happens? I'm watching Bolt right now, and the blacks and depth are just stunning! I do think the picture is getting better every day it seems, Especially when all of the lights are out.
post #5702 of 13462
Is there an availability issue with these sets? Looks like stock is low on the 65 on Amazon, at least... Any idea what's going on?
post #5703 of 13462
WOW, finally >>>>>>> Click Here

Avatar Blu-ray 3D Finally Gets a Release Date
post #5704 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

Do you have DirecTv, Dish, Cable, or OTA?

Direct TV...When I had my 55inch DLP I never noticed football being so blurry. Now I notice it all the time..
post #5705 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharding View Post

Is there an availability issue with these sets? Looks like stock is low on the 65 on Amazon, at least... Any idea what's going on?
there appear to have been some spot shortages in the production flow of the 65VT50 for short periods over the past month or so.
but it picks up rather quickly, so its probably just more flucuating. the manufacturers are probably just being cautious in production quantity, since they don't want to get stuck with too much inventory like happened last year.
Edited by BriscoCountyJr - 8/14/12 at 6:19pm
post #5706 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

That's what the salesman says.... A long time ago I got to work with the first generation bladecenter servers from IBM. To save space they used laptop disk drives that were "specially selected by IBM to be only the finest." They're still laptop drives and they really don't like a 100% duty cycle. If you really believe Sharp cherry picks the Elite panel you might want to consider just exactly how they might do that in a production line. What do they do? Plug each panel into a display and run test patterns through it?
The Sharp Elite is still a quattron panel with a bogus yellow sub-pixel that can't be accurate because there's no "Y" in "RGB". It is a brighter display because it's an LCD. It has better black levels, on axis, because of local dimming but the algorithm for controlling the backlight is flaky. It has inferior color fidelity.
And this is still the Panasonic VT50 owners thread....

agree 100% as i was on this boat as well. i have never been more disapointed in the elite do to the pulsing issues that was produced by the ld. to this day i can't believe they haven't eliminated this. my 8500 and 929 never had a glimpse of this issue. anyway back to the vt50 excellent set,excellent value...
post #5707 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

WOW, finally >>>>>>> Click Here
Avatar Blu-ray 3D Finally Gets a Release Date


Agreed, thanks for the link.
post #5708 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

I guess brighter than the background. It was on the bright blue slide where I could see it the most clearly, and it was very clear when right in front of the tv. It was not noticeable at all from regular viewing distance. But quite easily noticeable when right in front of the tv. After a minute I checked the same slide from standing right in front of the tv again and the logo had vanished. It was no longer visable on the bright blue slide or any slide for that matter. This was a test to see how fast something like that could go away. The logo is a bright white logo with a red line under it so the bright white logo would be more subject to IR than anything because of it's color.

I would say your IR would be in this category:

2 - Residual charge - Plasma displays use dielectric charges to control the on or off states of the pixel. If there is a slight residual charge left when the pixel is turned off the next time it turns on the pixel will be slightly brighter than normal. This will show up as a ghost image on a dark screen. You can tell it is residual charge because the ghost image is slightly brighter than the dark background. This ghost image is transient and easily removed by either a full white screen or watching full screen material for a few hours.

Michael
post #5709 of 13462
Final IR Clean-up Update:

So I've been away on vacation for 6 days. I had gotten the NBC Olympics logo IR reduced to a point where it was a "smudge" that was only visible in one gradient of white, and no color slides. I couldn't notice it in normal content, but I decided to see if I could clean it up 100%. So, before leaving for vacation, I made the (certainly overkill) decision to leave my VT50 on the white slide (treatment for MgO sputtering) for 6 entire consecutive days.

Well, I just returned, and as hard as I try to find any IR, the TV is as good as new. 100% clean. Of course, having to leave your TV on for 6 days is a bit excessive, so I probably would have been fine just ignoring it and watching normal content, but it's good to know after conducting this experiment that the IR is 100% reversible.

As a side note, I find it ironic that Panasonic was the official TV sponsor of the Olympics. You would think that they would lobby NBC to shift their logo around between commercials, or something like that. I got a PM from a Samsung user with the same problem (2011 "D" model), only his sounds worse. Such an easy problem to solve, IMO.
post #5710 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

WOW, finally >>>>>>> Click Here
Avatar Blu-ray 3D Finally Gets a Release Date

You mean it hasn't already been out? It was included with my Panasonic Blu-ray player from last year.
post #5711 of 13462
If you bought a Panasonic product in some cases, yes you got the 3D Blu Ray Movie. However, now the movie can be bought all by itself, no other purchase necessary.
post #5712 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Prior Pioneer engineers were employed and given free rein to build a new Elite. They have the entire Sharp arsenal (facilities, parts, you name it) at their disposal and they also cherry pick every single panel. And yes, these are the exact same panels that Sharp is using for its existing line. But these guys get to pick the most flawless samples as they come off the line. They did produce something very special that unfortunately will always have the off-axis fatal flaw. This beautiful set can only provide a satisfactory viewing experience to two or three seats at best until the PQ begins to diminish at a drastic rate the further from dead center you go. This is unfortunate to say the least. And LCD (LED is still an LCD with a different label) just does not have the ability to provide for the super natural movement that plasma can deliver. Aside from these two big factors, the Elite is an incredible set. There is a reason it won the shootout last year. And it is fair to point out that the Elite does have better blacks and it also kills any plasma in terms of max light output and super clean whites.
Thats why it boils down to personal preference. What things are you willing to live with? I chose plasma in my particular case without too much deliberation.

Someone posted earlier (an expert calibrator I believe) that theSharp Elite does not have better blacks than the VT50 on real life content. The ANSI checkered board contrast is better on the VT50. The better blacks on the Sharp Elites are only better with a full black screen, when the panel actually shuts down. Just what I eat, and I might even be saying it wrong. Still, my understanding is VT50 blacks are better than the Sharp Elite's with real life content.
post #5713 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Final IR Clean-up Update:
So I've been away on vacation for 6 days. I had gotten the NBC Olympics logo IR reduced to a point where it was a "smudge" that was only visible in one gradient of white, and no color slides. I couldn't notice it in normal content, but I decided to see if I could clean it up 100%. So, before leaving for vacation, I made the (certainly overkill) decision to leave my VT50 on the white slide (treatment for MgO sputtering) for 6 entire consecutive days.
Well, I just returned, and as hard as I try to find any IR, the TV is as good as new. 100% clean. Of course, having to leave your TV on for 6 days is a bit excessive, so I probably would have been fine just ignoring it and watching normal content, but it's good to know after conducting this experiment that the IR is 100% reversible.
As a side note, I find it ironic that Panasonic was the official TV sponsor of the Olympics. You would think that they would lobby NBC to shift their logo around between commercials, or something like that. I got a PM from a Samsung user with the same problem (2011 "D" model), only his sounds worse. Such an easy problem to solve, IMO.

Great experiment! Thanks for posting.

I'll also keep it in mind for the 2016 Olympics.smile.gif

Michael
post #5714 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Final IR Clean-up Update:
So I've been away on vacation for 6 days. I had gotten the NBC Olympics logo IR reduced to a point where it was a "smudge" that was only visible in one gradient of white, and no color slides. I couldn't notice it in normal content, but I decided to see if I could clean it up 100%. So, before leaving for vacation, I made the (certainly overkill) decision to leave my VT50 on the white slide (treatment for MgO sputtering) for 6 entire consecutive days.
Well, I just returned, and as hard as I try to find any IR, the TV is as good as new. 100% clean. Of course, having to leave your TV on for 6 days is a bit excessive, so I probably would have been fine just ignoring it and watching normal content, but it's good to know after conducting this experiment that the IR is 100% reversible.
As a side note, I find it ironic that Panasonic was the official TV sponsor of the Olympics. You would think that they would lobby NBC to shift their logo around between commercials, or something like that. I got a PM from a Samsung user with the same problem (2011 "D" model), only his sounds worse. Such an easy problem to solve, IMO.
Thanks very much for your test.
My IR from the NBC Olympics logo is also down to just a "smudge" that is barely noticeable close up on only one of the dark gray slides now.
Gives me confidence even that faint smudge will eventually disappear, thanks to your test. smile.gif
post #5715 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

That's actually great news about how quickly it vanished. I wish my friends VT50 was that quick with IR disappearing (which makes me think that this really does vary from panel to panel).

I guess it might as I can never detect any IR. Of course, my settings are not yours. But that said, I am using a lot of THX Bright Room, so my settings may be driving the panel even harder than yours....

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

As I understood it at the time, Pioneer sold patents to Panasonic before Sharp had much influence.
Here are some of the questions that I've wondered about. What would Sharp do with Kuro plasma technology? When has a 15% stake amounted to a controlling interest? Why does using the "Elite" name constitute a transfer of plasma technology to a LCD panel?

It should go without saying that there is no Kuro technology in the Sharp Elite. It is in fact idiotic to conclude that there is any. The Kuro technology specifically relates to plasmas. It has no meaningful applicability to LCDs. To the extent that any Kuro technology at all has filtered into the Sharp Elite, it's on the margins of the margins of the margins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I have no idea what your post is trying to get across. I don't need a reminder as to what thread this is and I don't think we have strayed off topic much at all. And it is perfectly reasonable and almost expected that a $7000 panel may get extra QA attention. This is cherry picking. Everything else you mentioned is a carbon copy of what I have already stated.
If you think they never knowingly let panels go out with dead pixels, then you are as naive as you think I am. I will bet you my vt50 that the percentage of panel defects reported by Elite owners is far far less than that of the rest of the Sharp line.

I can tell you that Sharp has no means to cherry pick panels for Elites. I am certain of this. It is perhaps possible they have some secondary protocol to reject panels at some very early stage of the Elite assembly process, but because of the way things work, I really, really doubt it. You have to make the entire panel to test it. Once you have done that, all panels get a very, very cursory test. It's simply not practical to do cherry picking because to do that, you'd have to test every panel extensively to find the better ones. That's not affordable. So all you can do is try to take ones that you believe are good and send them off to Elite assembly. Once they are they, it's very difficult to believe they ever come back. I've watched several LCD factory videos and I don't see any method that would allow cherry picking. Sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Final IR Clean-up Update:
So I've been away on vacation for 6 days. I had gotten the NBC Olympics logo IR reduced to a point where it was a "smudge" that was only visible in one gradient of white, and no color slides. I couldn't notice it in normal content, but I decided to see if I could clean it up 100%. So, before leaving for vacation, I made the (certainly overkill) decision to leave my VT50 on the white slide (treatment for MgO sputtering) for 6 entire consecutive days.
Well, I just returned, and as hard as I try to find any IR, the TV is as good as new. 100% clean. Of course, having to leave your TV on for 6 days is a bit excessive, so I probably would have been fine just ignoring it and watching normal content, but it's good to know after conducting this experiment that the IR is 100% reversible. .

It is good to have it confirmed. Some of us already knew, even though some of you were skeptical.
post #5716 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I can tell you that Sharp has no means to cherry pick panels for Elites. I am certain of this. It is perhaps possible they have some secondary protocol to reject panels at some very early stage of the Elite assembly process, but because of the way things work, I really, really doubt it. You have to make the entire panel to test it. Once you have done that, all panels get a very, very cursory test. It's simply not practical to do cherry picking because to do that, you'd have to test every panel extensively to find the better ones. That's not affordable. So all you can do is try to take ones that you believe are good and send them off to Elite assembly. Once they are they, it's very difficult to believe they ever come back. I've watched several LCD factory videos and I don't see any method that would allow cherry picking. Sorry.

Are you sure about this? Because panel sorting is exactly what LG does- at least with their IPS LCD PC monitors.

There is a new eBay trend of buying "Korean" made (and sold) monitors that use the same exact LG IPS panel that is in the Apple Cinema display, only they're found in much, much cheaper brands. We're talking a price of $400 vs $900-1000 for the same 2560x1440 IPS panel. This is justified based on LG's IPS panel sorting, which the vendors themselves have "exposed". They rate panels with an A+, A, A-, B+, etc. based on the number and severity of defects. Apple, Dell, etc. get A+ and A panels because they pay a premium for them. Crossover, Catleap, etc. get an A- panel due to some defects. I've had 4 Crossovers, all with different defects. The black levels are never all that great, there is blooming, and I've had stuck pixels on all but one of them. Another one had bad uniformity. But the PQ otherwise is phenomenal, especially for the price!

Bottom line though, is that there IS panel sorting going on at LG, it IS practical (at least for 2560x1440 PC monitors), and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that Sharp is doing it with their Elite panels. I think it goes without saying, but watching "LCD factory videos" isn't going to make you an expert in LCD panel manufacturing- especially if there are (undoubtedly) company secrets in the manufacturing process smile.gif. I know that my company has published videos explaining the manufacturing process of our high-performance ASICs, but I can tell you that we're leaving a lot out for a variety of reasons. Best not to make assumptions.
post #5717 of 13462
Been following this thread for some time now. Pulled the trigger last Wednesday at BB then delivered the 65VT50 Friday. After setting up the display and playing with the various setups I entered some calibrated settings. I have two words that don't even come close to my experience, "blown away" - I've been viewing from a 65813 mit for over 14 years...
Each day and night been running the colored slides with the exception couple hours a day I watch sat-tv. Each day I can see a remarkable difference with the accuracy of this display. I'm about 125hrs into all this.
Thinking after today I'll stop the slide show -

A friend has a kuro (which is what motivated me to buy) my complements and hats off to Panasonic. You did well, congrats!!

A thank you, TopperMcFly thanks for your input you have helped me and thanks to everyone else.
post #5718 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Oh I see, so Sharp a company that is losing $$ right now bought the Kuro tech
ONLY put the ELITE name on their 5k and 7k TV's.
you must be kidding?
Did you read the many reviews from current and past Kuro owners who bought the Sharp Elite.
Did you some how miss what they said comparing in some cases the TV's side by side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Agreed.
Why not give all the credit to Panasonic as they have had years to catch up
on their own without any tech help from Pioneer that they never got in the first place.
Sharp owns it lock stock and barrel.

Dude if you're going to continue to come into these Panasonic threads to bash Panasonic, you should have at least educated yourself about how Pioneer was fragmented before making yourself look like an uninformed idiot. And learn to read what others are saying.

1. Panasonic bought 100% of Pioneer's Plasma technology lock stock and barrel for something like $66 million.

2. Panasonic has stated that Pioneer's Kuro technology is not compatible with Panasonic's plasma technology, and they have never claimed or even insinuated that they're using Kuro technology. They don't need to actually use the technology - but they have learned from it. How do you think Samsung learned how to make Plasmas and LCD TVs? They stole patents from Pioneer and Sharp, that's how.

3. Panasonic hired most of Pioneer's engineers - some before Pioneer stopped making displays, and more after their TV division was shut down. These engineers have been working with Panasonic's engineers to develop their displays ever since so the same great minds that created Kuro are now creating Panasonics, and that knowledge is showing with the new 2012 models. My GT50 image looks more Kuro-like than any Plasma in history.

4. Sharp hired a small percentage of Pioneer's engineers, and they in turn helped develop the excellent Sharp Elite LED TV.

5. Sharp aquired the right to use the Pioneer's Elite name, but they did not buy any of Pioneer's plasma technology - that is now owned by Panasonic lock stock and barrel. Sharp has nothing to do with it.
post #5719 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

How do you think Samsung learned how to make Plasmas and LCD TVs? They stole patents from Pioneer and Sharp, that's how.

Can you please provide any references to this? Otherwise I believe it would be best if people stop saying these things. It just perpetuates what is possibly myth unless some form of published proof can be had. Samsung also has it's own documented contributions (patents) to both technologies.

RCA was at the forefront with LCD.

http://www.lcd-displays-manufacturers.com/sUserFiles/Upload/LCD_History_Blaze_Display.pdf
post #5720 of 13462
Does anyone know if there is any benefit to processing 1080i (motorola STB) or 480p (Sony progessive DVD player) video signals thru a Pioneer Elite VSX-32's Marvell Qdeo video chip and then passing the signal (1080p) to the VT50 for display or just turning off the Elite's processing and allowing the VT50 to do the heavy lifting? I haven't noticed a difference myself.
post #5721 of 13462
So can anyone help me with the motion blur that I am seeing when I watch football? Everything else about the TV is GREAT but I have really noticed that when watching football the picture can get very blurry, especially when a QB throws a dart and the camera has to move fast to catch the action. I NEVER noticed this on my DLP 55' Samsung. Now, I notice it on almost every throw the QB makes and its very discouraging. I use Vivid mode. I tried to use ISF day/night but I just cant get used to the yellowish tint it has. So on Vivid Mode my setting are:

Motion smoother - weak
3:2 pulldown - Auto
HDMI Source
Service provider - Direct TV.

Any suggestions on what I can do to reduce the blur? Do I move the motion smoother to Medium or Strong? Would changing the sharpness help at all? I currently have it at +78 as that is what the default was.

Any help would really be appreciated.
post #5722 of 13462
Set Motion Smoother :Mid and
3:2 Pulldown :OFF
post #5723 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Can you please provide any references to this? Otherwise I believe it would be best if people stop saying these things. It just perpetuates what is possibly myth unless some form of published proof can be had. Samsung also has it's own documented contributions (patents) to both technologies.
RCA was at the forefront with LCD.
http://www.lcd-displays-manufacturers.com/sUserFiles/Upload/LCD_History_Blaze_Display.pdf

Mr Waters has no proof just his usual party line, there is no reason to expect anything different from him.
post #5724 of 13462
jarias: That's a lot of sharpness (edge enhancement), which can introduce artifact that can wreck an HD signal. Try turning it off (0) and see if that helps.
post #5725 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Mr Waters has no proof just his usual party line, there is no reason to expect anything different from him.

google is your friend

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Press-Room/Pioneer-Information/Pioneer+Wins+Patent+Infringement+Suit+Against+Samsung+SDI
post #5726 of 13462

Big deal. 59 million is pocket change to them.
post #5727 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxme View Post

Does anyone know if there is any benefit to processing 1080i (motorola STB) or 480p (Sony progessive DVD player) video signals thru a Pioneer Elite VSX-32's Marvell Qdeo video chip and then passing the signal (1080p) to the VT50 for display or just turning off the Elite's processing and allowing the VT50 to do the heavy lifting? I haven't noticed a difference myself.

You will notice some improvements with the VSX-32. However the one that is missing that you would want and get the best improvement from is the VNR (video (digital) noise reduction). Sadly it's not implemented in the VSX-32; it's perplexing because the support is there in the chip.

Things that will help on the VSX-32
De-interlacer (is far superior)
detail control will do some edge enhancement

The receiver I had my eyes on was an Onkyo NR818. I have a VSX-33 presently; Pioneer for whatever reason didn't implement everything the marvel chip can do. And to boot they don't do firmware updates frown.gif

The Onkyo has some bugs too, like it's 24p mode will skip a frame every 40 seconds or so. This has been an ongoing issue with Onkyo's for awhile is what I read.

From what I have seen the NR818 (or similar) seems to be of the best video processing AVR's out there. QDEO Vida chipset & the Marvel.
Edited by SiGGy - 8/15/12 at 10:27am
post #5728 of 13462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

Mr Waters has no proof just his usual party line, there is no reason to expect anything different from him.

Pot meet kettle
post #5729 of 13462
Thanks for the reply SIGGy. Strange about the disengaged VNR on the Elites. You seem more up to speed than I concerning these receivers. So, I'll ask a question that may seem obvious to most. Am I correct to assume that when using the passthrough (standby) feature, no video processing is being done by the VSX-32's video chip?
Thx, Ron
post #5730 of 13462

They did get convicted of patent infringement... however. Not to say it's "OK" but Patent infringement happens all the time. Anyone who's in R&D or has ever filed a patent will know the system is for a lack of better words "jacked up". Especially for the little guy. And or sometimes patents are written so vague they apply to anything that's remotely close to the original concept. Even though you may be presenting a new idea, you get denied or you push your product through and get a patent infringement lawsuit.

Here's the patents infringed upon. One of which is a patent Pioneer acquired.

U.S. Patent No. 5,182,489: Plasma display having increased brightness
Inventor: Yoshio Sano
Original Assignee: NEC Corporation

U.S. Patent No. 5,640,068: Surface discharge plasma display
Inventor: Kimio Amemiya
Original Assignee: Pioneer Electronic Corporation

Lets not forget Pioneer didn't invent Plasma, just as Thomas Edison didn't invent the light bulb. Edison just improved upon anothers original design. Although everyone seems to credit him for inventing it. Same with Pioneer they improved someone else original concept.

It's NOT to say Pioneer's improvements shouldn't go unnoticed. Pioneer really refined the plasma display technology like a fine wine.


He also claimed the same for LCD. I don't see any mention of LCD in there and or on the all mighty google.

This is good info but I'm just not seeing how this shows Samsung completely reverse engineered Pioneers displays to learn how to make a plasma. Samsung also has a lot of patents for Plasma technology displays themselves. Some of which Pioneer has cited in their own patents.
Edited by SiGGy - 8/15/12 at 10:30am
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