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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 195

post #5821 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Quick question for anyone that has an opinion, but tonight I did something with my VT50 that I didn't intend on doing and have never done before and want an opinion on if I might have caused some problems. I left the room for a few minutes to do something quick but ended up being gone for just over an hour. During this time, the channel the tv was left on which airs commercial free programs with some time filler at the end of shows, aired 2 shows that were sd and 4x3 content. So the VT50 ended up displaying 24 min of 4x3 content with black bars followed by 6 minutes of widescreen/hd content and then another 24 mins of 4x3 sd and 6 minutes of hd. I then realized I should turn it off and went back. So with about 48 mins of black bars on the side should I be considered at all with burn in from the black bars? I know people on here use them all the time but I stretch everything. Just want some opinions. Also, if I ended up with uneven phosphur wear or burn in from the bars, how would you be able to tell easily?
That's not even half the length of a typical 4x3 movie. You are a very very long way from having anything to worry about. Now, I'd be careful the next time you get ready to go on vacation. wink.gif
post #5822 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommmyJ View Post

SPIFFX - Sorry didn't mean to sound negative about the Cotytech at all. It came with all the necessary hardware to mount, well packaged and the tv installed with no problems at all(no alterations needed). It does what I was expecting and instructions were sufficient for installation as well. It is a little pricey but I wanted something that could more than safely hold my tv in place without worries.
Thanks a lot Tommy. What made you choose the Cotytech over the Dycom?
post #5823 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

No worries. Settings have been removed. I will take a queue from DeWayne. Good luck to the rest of you and cheers.

You and I both know that's not what you want.
Hope to see you around soon.
Sheila
post #5824 of 13486
people on here are very sensitive i guess
post #5825 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarias2311 View Post

Direct TV...When I had my 55inch DLP I never noticed football being so blurry. Now I notice it all the time..

I am watching CIN vs ATL on FOX and it is spectacular. Nothing blurry about it.
post #5826 of 13486
Just unboxed my 65vt50 and had a dumb question.
I have the Denon 2113ci and want to just run HDMI from receiver to TV and utilize ARC. Can I just run one HDMI cable from the HDMI port 2 (labeled as ARC), or do I need to run two HDMI cables to the receiver (HDMI1 and HDMI2)?
Wondering if it is because the receiver needs to see the ARC content as a seperate source?
Thanks in advance !
post #5827 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

You and I both know that's not what you want.
Hope to see you around soon.
Sheila

I don't know why the fight here.
Some pointed out that they would like to know how topper came to his settings. That's all.
He is very useful here and helps people a lot so why so much fight.
Are not we here to share and improve on each other?
post #5828 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavMcGee View Post

Just unboxed my 65vt50 and had a dumb question.
I have the Denon 2113ci and want to just run HDMI from receiver to TV and utilize ARC. Can I just run one HDMI cable from the HDMI port 2 (labeled as ARC), or do I need to run two HDMI cables to the receiver (HDMI1 and HDMI2)?
Wondering if it is because the receiver needs to see the ARC content as a seperate source?
Thanks in advance !

As long as your receiver is ARC capable, you only need one cable. I had the same initial confusion. Works great.
post #5829 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwegrzyn View Post

I don't know why the fight here.
Some pointed out that they would like to know how topper came to his settings. That's all.
He is very useful here and helps people a lot so why so much fight.


Stags and positioning, type A personality clashes, last word struggles, control issues, the always right syndrome, they like me better than you, or as Ss10zidane stated- sensitivity- some have too much and some too little.
Maybe all of the above.

There is, and should be, a standard here. However that standard is not, and should not be, as narrow as some would like, nor as broad as some others need. wink.gif
Quote:
Are not we here to share and improve on each other?

Yes!
post #5830 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavMcGee View Post

Just unboxed my 65vt50 and had a dumb question.
I have the Denon 2113ci and want to just run HDMI from receiver to TV and utilize ARC. Can I just run one HDMI cable from the HDMI port 2 (labeled as ARC), or do I need to run two HDMI cables to the receiver (HDMI1 and HDMI2)?
Wondering if it is because the receiver needs to see the ARC content as a seperate source?
Thanks in advance !

I have the 2313 and the answer is yes- one hdmi. Be sure that you have turned on hdmi control in both the avr and tv. For the tv it's located under Settings and also change your audio in that section from speakers to theater.
post #5831 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

I am watching CIN vs ATL on FOX and it is spectacular. Nothing blurry about it.

Agreed - it looks fantastic through Dish. The close in shots are amazingly clear.
post #5832 of 13486
Just a though on shared settings.
I noticed that setting simple brightness and contrast with the Calibration DVD gets me better results then copying anyone's else settings.
I thing every tv is different and it is waste of time to dial in some others settings.
It would be better to explain how to set it correctly.
Not sure how d-nice settings will look, but my feel is the same.
Probably it will look good to people because it is Dnice's, that's all.
post #5833 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_b View Post

Quick question for anyone that has an opinion, but tonight I did something with my VT50 that I didn't intend on doing and have never done before and want an opinion on if I might have caused some problems. I left the room for a few minutes to do something quick but ended up being gone for just over an hour. During this time, the channel the tv was left on which airs commercial free programs with some time filler at the end of shows, aired 2 shows that were sd and 4x3 content. So the VT50 ended up displaying 24 min of 4x3 content with black bars followed by 6 minutes of widescreen/hd content and then another 24 mins of 4x3 sd and 6 minutes of hd. I then realized I should turn it off and went back. So with about 48 mins of black bars on the side should I be considered at all with burn in from the black bars? I know people on here use them all the time but I stretch everything. Just want some opinions. Also, if I ended up with uneven phosphur wear or burn in from the bars, how would you be able to tell easily?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

You would see it while watching tv. If you don't see it don't look for it. Your tv should be fine, just don't leave it on that for 8 hours. K?

This was really good advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

This is the red flag that made me quit reading that enormous post. Please, PLEASE quit acting like an expert on things that you (now clearly) know nothing about.

You mean things you clearly know nothing about, right?

On Intel's website, it lists its products. The first 10 are 10 microprocessor families. A microprocessor is not an ASIC. (Per Wikipedia -- and really any other definition ever -- "An application-specific integrated circuit, or ASIC /ˈeɪsɪk/, is an integrated circuit (IC) customized for a particular use, rather than intended for general-purpose use."). It also lists 8 motherboard families/products. None of those are ASICs (although some use ASICs). It also lists things like Ethernet products, SSDs, wireless products, chipsets, etc. While several of those do, in fact, use Intel-made ASICs, relatively few of them use speed-rated parts. For example, Intel makes a wireless adapter (sometimes called the "Centrino") that is used in many laptops. That is not sold on a performance-rated system because its clock speed is irrelevant.
Quote:
This is my day-to-day job, man. You seem like a nice guy, but you have a knack for blowing a lot of hot air. Here's some personal advice: consistently I've found that the smartest, most respected engineers that I've encountered in my career are also some of the most humble and frequent to question their own knowledge. I know we all like tech here, but this isn't a pissing contest; nobody can know everything. And with the latest debate in question you're taking such a definitive stand that's based 100% on skepticism, which is a dangerous thing in engineering. It's painting yourself in a box. It's already been an off-topic waste of time, so I'm dropping it.

Your dropping it because I destroyed your argument not because of anything you wrote above about how I know something. A bigger man would just admit that instead of attacking me. The fact is something close to everything I wrote is correct. It's certainly not all correct because I admittedly fill in some blanks on certain pieces of the puzzle I don't know. But the part where I correctly describe that Intel "bins" microprocessors and relatively rarely bins other parts because many of them don't get sold on speed is not even worth arguing about. Pieces like chipset northbridges and southbridges might be binned occasionally, but they aren't pieces in common between the high-performance and low-performance motherboards, so even that is somewhat unlikely.

And none of that helps Sharp "bin" LCDs. Or LG. And none of it addresses the utterly dissimilarity between LCD panels and computer parts anyway.
post #5834 of 13486
It's astonishing to me how much ego some people have invested in their displays. Of course, that's half the entertainment value of these forums.

My personal take on it is that when settings are posted there's a tacit assumption that they were selected to adhere to an objective standard since such a standard actually does exist. There's nothing wrong with subjective settings, but since they are subjective it seems to me that they require a statement about what attributes drive the subjectivity. Since subjectivity is by definition personal, I need to know what your criteria are so that I can judge whether or not the chosen deviations from the objective standard make sense to me. De gustibus non disputandum and all that.

While I would personally have thought that folks engage in these forums to gain exposure to other points of view, exchange ideas, and search for knowledge and insight, anyone who has read this thread or the Sharp Elite thread (or who knows how many others) quickly discovers that isn't the case.

I just break out the popcorn and enjoy the ride.
post #5835 of 13486
So I got the 55" VT50 from Amazon a couple of weeks ago and so far I love it except for one problem. I get some grayish horizontal lines that scroll vertically from bottom to top. One line is more noticeable than the rest especially in dark scenes. At first I thought it was my cable connection because I'm connected through component because my cable box doesn't have an HDMI connection (I have Cox cable in Phoenix, AZ). If I turn off my cable box and have a blank black screen the moving lines are still there. I don't have this problem at all with DVD, Blu Ray or video games. I'm running some break-in slides now and the lines aren't there. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this or what the problem is?
post #5836 of 13486
I need your guys' help!!!

I know it's a GT50 but these series have the same features maybe you would know what the problem is or can give me a link to where I can spread this around? I want answers sooon. Thanks guys. Watch the video!!!

TC-P55GT50

I just got this Plasma, and I'm worried about this problem I'm having. Perhaps its just the display settings on my PS3? Im at a loss. Its ONLY when I pop in a movie, SOMETIMES the blacks have flickering pixels all throughout the panel in most parts of the movies, like the letterbox bars. Like I show, the problem doesn't exist in the PS3 menu. Do you think it has something to do with the features of the GT50? Perhaps its only happening when a dvd/bluray is playing? Netflix looks great, better blacks than a bluray because of this problem causing the blurays blacks to lack clarity and depth. Please help!!!

Watch it in HD, you'll see what my problem is.

http://youtu.be/xI-rWEibRpE?hd=1
post #5837 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

You mean things you clearly know nothing about, right?
On Intel's website, it lists its products. The first 10 are 10 microprocessor families. A microprocessor is not an ASIC. (Per Wikipedia -- and really any other definition ever -- "An application-specific integrated circuit, or ASIC /ˈeɪsɪk/, is an integrated circuit (IC) customized for a particular use, rather than intended for general-purpose use."). It also lists 8 motherboard families/products. None of those are ASICs (although some use ASICs). It also lists things like Ethernet products, SSDs, wireless products, chipsets, etc. While several of those do, in fact, use Intel-made ASICs, relatively few of them use speed-rated parts. For example, Intel makes a wireless adapter (sometimes called the "Centrino") that is used in many laptops. That is not sold on a performance-rated system because its clock speed is irrelevant.

Rogo,

No. Again, I have a degree in this (from one of the world's top engineering schools). You're (continually) making a gross misunderstanding. I actually design microprocessors, which are ASICs, every day.

The Wikipedia article is correct, but you're grossly misunderstanding it. "ASIC" is a category which a "microprocessor" *can* fall under. You can't reconfigure the architecture of a microprocessor that is an ASIC. That's what makes it an ASIC. Conversely, you can have something called a FPGA or CPLD (I'll let you wiki those). These are configurable ICs. They CAN also be microprocessors. They can be anything (digitally, and SOMETIMES in analog) you want them to be, given area and resource constraints. To put it in simpler terms, the distinction between something like an ASIC and the FPGA is how they're architecturally configured, either before or after fabrication. An ASIC is a one-time thing- you fabricate it, and if there is a design or architectural issue, you have to work around it in software, or redesign and re-fabricate (which is ungodly expensive). An FPGA is fabricated, but then later configured, at the cost of power, area, and frequency. NASA likes to use FPGAs and CPLDs because they can fix hardware issues (sometimes caused by foreign particles) in their design without having to access the chip. Intel/AMD/NVIDIA use ASICs in their processors due to lower cost, higher density, lower power, and higher frequencies. You CAN have a "CPU" or "GPU" in an FPGA, but that's usually just for prototyping, and given today's CPU and GPU gate densities, it usually takes a giant FPGA or a network of them to handle that job. They can be used for a variety of other tasks, but I could talk about FPGAs for hours.

I sincerely hope that clears this up. This isn't even a debate of semantics. If you want to believe the sky is polka-dotted purple, go ahead, but for the sake of everyone else in this thread, I'm dropping this extremely silly debate (you learn this distinction clearly in the first week of a semiconductor physics class). PM me if you want to me to explain it further or if you have any questions on this topic.
Edited by Tempest261 - 8/17/12 at 5:16am
post #5838 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by LILBZ3 View Post

I need your guys' help!!!
I know it's a GT50 but these series have the same features maybe you would know what the problem is or can give me a link to where I can spread this around? I want answers sooon. Thanks guys. Watch the video!!!
TC-P55GT50
I just got this Plasma, and I'm worried about this problem I'm having. Perhaps its just the display settings on my PS3? Im at a loss. Its ONLY when I pop in a movie, SOMETIMES the blacks have flickering pixels all throughout the panel in most parts of the movies, like the letterbox bars. Like I show, the problem doesn't exist in the PS3 menu. Do you think it has something to do with the features of the GT50? Perhaps its only happening when a dvd/bluray is playing? Netflix looks great, better blacks than a bluray because of this problem causing the blurays blacks to lack clarity and depth. Please help!!!
Watch it in HD, you'll see what my problem is.
http://youtu.be/xI-rWEibRpE?hd=1

This years TVs do have a slow refresh drive system to achieve the darker blacks. What you can see is a scan line scrolling on any area that is black. However I doubt this is what you're noticing.

Looks like normal PWM noise to me.

The brightness control (black level) generally needs to be calibrated per device! What happens when you turn down the brightness control a few clicks while looking at the black bars in the movie? Do the speckles go away?

Before you even continue posting on here about this. Go calibrate your black levels using the PS3's BR player.

Download this and burn it to DVD put it in your PS3.
http://content.wuala.com/contents/alluringreality/Public/AVCHD-2d.exe/?dl=1

Go into the basic patterns and do the black clipping adjustment. I highly recommend you watch the tutorial on the disc before you adjust it, it will explain how to adjust it correctly.

Is the disc that you are showing in the example movie you made an original disc? If it's copied/re-encoded all bets are off. Try a normal store bought BR disc if this is the case.

You might want to ask this question on the PS3 forum, to see if there are any BR playback settings that need to be adjusted. It's possible BR playback is using a different video mode... I'm not fam. with the PS3. Hopefully someone who is chimes in smile.gif
Edited by SiGGy - 8/17/12 at 7:25am
post #5839 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


I can tell you that Sharp has no means to cherry pick panels for Elites. I am certain of this. It is perhaps possible they have some secondary protocol to reject panels at some very early stage of the Elite assembly process, but because of the way things work, I really, really doubt it. You have to make the entire panel to test it. Once you have done that, all panels get a very, very cursory test. It's simply not practical to do cherry picking because to do that, you'd have to test every panel extensively to find the better ones. That's not affordable. So all you can do is try to take ones that you believe are good and send them off to Elite assembly. Once they are they, it's very difficult to believe they ever come back. I've watched several LCD factory videos and I don't see any method that would allow cherry picking. Sorry.
It is good to have it confirmed. Some of us already knew, even though some of you were skeptical.

I think you really should do a bit more digging to think that panel inspections are necessarily very, very cursory.

http://www.radiantzemax.com/en/automated-optical-inspection/home.aspx

Another link from their website:

http://www.radiantzemax.com/en/automated-optical-inspection/flat-panel-displays/fpd-mura-analysis.aspx

All of the tests included in the TrueMURA Test Module make use of a model of human perception which grades display mura to match human observers. The JND algorithm incorporated in these tests is based on patent-pending "Standard Spatial Observer" technology licensed by Radiant Zemax from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA).

The TrueMURA test detects mura and grades them according to JND value. The Blob Analysis test provides a powerful, generalized method of identifying mura through the analysis of differences in brightness and color in the display image; it is particularly useful when assessing the shape and extent of a mura.

Either Blob Analysis or the TrueMURA Test can be run several times in a TrueTest test sequence, with varying parameters, to detect different types of mura.
The TrueMURA Module includes multiple dedicated mura tests

Dedicated tests are included for:

Black mura
Butterfly mura
Corner Light mura
Diagonal Line mura
Edge mura
LED mura
Line mura
Spot mura



Designed and Built for FPD Manufacturing

Register Active Display Area
The system automatically finds, aligns, and scales the display image, eliminating the need for precise orientation of the display.

Moiré removal
Moiré patterns can also be removed without losing any uniformity information or detail.

Multiple imaging resolutions available
Align directly to test parameters, lower resolution if only uniformity testing is required, higher resolution if pixel defect detection is required.


I can go on and on with other companies offering similar products for Panel manufacturers and these are already used in many production facilities. To quote again:


Radiant Zemax' TrueTest automated optical inspection systems are already deployed on hundreds of production lines, testing millions of FPDs. The combination of ProMetric and TrueTest software is production tested and proven.
post #5840 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

If he is watching 1080i content that 3:2 pulldown setting should be "ON", auto doesn't work correctly and if it is not "ON" 1080i content won't deinterlace properly.

What is the impact on non-film based material with the 3:2 pulldown setting set to "ON?"

jdg
post #5841 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDG View Post

What is the impact on non-film based material with the 3:2 pulldown setting set to "ON?"
jdg

It has an impact according to CNET and I noticed a difference on cable programming. IMO opinion all 1080i content was improved with the setting on.
post #5842 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Rogo,
No. Again, I have a degree in this (from one of the world's top engineering schools). You're (continually) making a gross misunderstanding. I actually design microprocessors, which are ASICs, every day.
The Wikipedia article is correct, but you're grossly misunderstanding it. "ASIC" is a category which a "microprocessor" *can* fall under. You can't reconfigure the architecture of a microprocessor that is an ASIC. That's what makes it an ASIC. Conversely, you can have something called a FPGA or CPLD (I'll let you wiki those). These are configurable ICs. They CAN also be microprocessors. They can be anything (digitally, and SOMETIMES in analog) you want them to be, given area and resource constraints. To put it in simpler terms, the distinction between something like an ASIC and the FPGA is how they're architecturally configured, either before or after fabrication. An ASIC is a one-time thing- you fabricate it, and if there is a design or architectural issue, you have to work around it in software, or redesign and re-fabricate (which is ungodly expensive). An FPGA is fabricated, but then later configured, at the cost of power, area, and frequency. NASA likes to use FPGAs and CPLDs because they can fix hardware issues (sometimes caused by foreign particles) in their design without having to access the chip. Intel/AMD/NVIDIA use ASICs in their processors due to lower cost, higher density, lower power, and higher frequencies. You CAN have a "CPU" or "GPU" in an FPGA, but that's usually just for prototyping, and given today's CPU and GPU gate densities, it usually takes a giant FPGA or a network of them to handle that job. They can be used for a variety of other tasks, but I could talk about FPGAs for hours.
I sincerely hope that clears this up. This isn't even a debate of semantics. If you want to believe the sky is polka-dotted purple, go ahead, but for the sake of everyone else in this thread, I'm dropping this extremely silly debate (you learn this distinction clearly in the first week of a semiconductor physics class). PM me if you want to me to explain it further or if you have any questions on this topic.

This is a Panasonic VT50 owners thread. This argument does not help further the thinking around our TVs in any way... there must be another thread in some other forum explicitly created for people to portray and augment their egos... please, stop it.
post #5843 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

This is a Panasonic VT50 owners thread. This argument does not help further the thinking around our TVs in any way... there must be another thread in some other forum explicitly created for people to portray and augment their egos... please, stop it.

The Flat Panel Forum would be appropriate
post #5844 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by LILBZ3 View Post

I need your guys' help!!!
I know it's a GT50 but these series have the same features maybe you would know what the problem is or can give me a link to where I can spread this around? I want answers sooon. Thanks guys. Watch the video!!!
TC-P55GT50
I just got this Plasma, and I'm worried about this problem I'm having. Perhaps its just the display settings on my PS3? Im at a loss. Its ONLY when I pop in a movie, SOMETIMES the blacks have flickering pixels all throughout the panel in most parts of the movies, like the letterbox bars. Like I show, the problem doesn't exist in the PS3 menu. Do you think it has something to do with the features of the GT50? Perhaps its only happening when a dvd/bluray is playing? Netflix looks great, better blacks than a bluray because of this problem causing the blurays blacks to lack clarity and depth. Please help!!!
Watch it in HD, you'll see what my problem is.
http://youtu.be/xI-rWEibRpE?hd=1

Are you watching your blu rays in 48hz? What receiver do you have?

In addition to the great advice by Siggy, try turning off deep color in the player, if the option exists and turn off all processing in the tv. Another thing to try would be swapping out the hdmi cable.

BTW, posting all of your settings for the input would really help us to help you.
post #5845 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffX View Post

This is a Panasonic VT50 owners thread. This argument does not help further the thinking around our TVs in any way... there must be another thread in some other forum explicitly created for people to portray and augment their egos... please, stop it.

I hear you loud and clear and I agree 100%. As I stated, Rogo is more than welcome to PM me if he has any questions.
post #5846 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by adeelz View Post

So I got the 55" VT50 from Amazon a couple of weeks ago and so far I love it except for one problem. I get some grayish horizontal lines that scroll vertically from bottom to top. One line is more noticeable than the rest especially in dark scenes. At first I thought it was my cable connection because I'm connected through component because my cable box doesn't have an HDMI connection (I have Cox cable in Phoenix, AZ). If I turn off my cable box and have a blank black screen the moving lines are still there. I don't have this problem at all with DVD, Blu Ray or video games. I'm running some break-in slides now and the lines aren't there. Does anyone have any idea how to fix this or what the problem is?

This sounds like an analog ground loop. Does your cable box have a ground prong? I would also check your wall power outlet, too, to be sure the polarity and gounding are correct. You can get an inexpensive tester at most electronics and hardware stores. They have three test lights. Two will light when everything is good.

Michael
post #5847 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

I hear you loud and clear and I agree 100%. As I stated, Rogo is more than welcome to PM me if he has any questions.

I really appreciate this forum. I have been doing a lot of research before I pulled the trigger on a VT50. I should have it some time next week. I can't wait.

I just want to thank everyone. I did go through all of the trouble to create an account just so I could say thanks and less importantly to ask Tempest to please STFU. You and a few others have made navigating through this thread much more difficult than it needs to be. If you were an adult, you would have initiated the first PM rather than satisfy your your huge ego and need to get the last word in.

Anyway, I will post my impressions once I get everything set up or maybe I won't. This thread kind of scares me to be honest. This will be my first plasma, so I am a little nervous.
post #5848 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenFried View Post

I really appreciate this forum. I have been doing a lot of research before I pulled the trigger on a VT50. I should have it some time next week. I can't wait.
I just want to thank everyone. I did go through all of the trouble to create an account just so I could say thanks and less importantly to ask Tempest to please STFU. You and a few others have made navigating through this thread much more difficult than it needs to be. If you were an adult, you would have initiated the first PM rather than satisfy your your huge ego and need to get the last word in.
Anyway, I will post my impressions once I get everything set up or maybe I won't. This thread kind of scares me to be honest. This will be my first plasma, so I am a little nervous.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it you don't want to see my posts, please, I encourage you: use the wonderful AVS forum blocking ability. I try to post as useful information as I can, but I will also call out nonsense when I see it. There's nothing that I hate more than misinformation, and this thread has been full of it. Short of my attempts to take off-topic conversations into other threads or PMs, that's never going to change. So please go ahead and block me- I promise that there are no hard feelings, and I understand.
post #5849 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

I think you really should do a bit more digging to think that panel inspections are necessarily very, very cursory.
http://www.radiantzemax.com/en/automated-optical-inspection/home.aspx

Radiant's system, and those like it, are largely designed to catch defective displays as work in progress -- before a human (or machines) can look at finished goods. I'm generally familiar with that kind of testing and if you read the pages you linked, you'll see that True Test is actually designed to find faulty WIP pieces and take them out of the system. It is not designed for "binning" of parts. True Test is a "go / no go" solution. True Test Mura could theoretically be used for "binning", although it actually seems merely to apply go / no go to WIP. (That could still theoretically allow binning if, for example, the lowest mura displays were tagged for high-performance apps.)

The problem is even if my parenthetical comment applied, it's not relevant to how Elites are made. They have to be assembled with BEFs and BLUs before they could even be properly judged and then they'd still be the only panels with full-array BLUs and Elite BEFs, so there is still no cherry-picking. Also, the assumption here is that the mura testing is somehow sufficient / relevant for binning, which is actually not clear at all.

What is clear is that to even achieve that level of cherry picking, you'd need to test 100% of the panels to find the gems in the ore so to speak. Why are you doing this? You're basically adding cost to more than 1 million Sharp TVs so you can very marginally improve the quality of 10,000 Sharp Elites? Occam's Razor again says this is not happening.
post #5850 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Rogo,
No. Again, I have a degree in this (from one of the world's top engineering schools). You're (continually) making a gross misunderstanding. I actually design microprocessors, which are ASICs, every day.
The Wikipedia article is correct, but you're grossly misunderstanding it. "ASIC" is a category which a "microprocessor" *can* fall under. You can't reconfigure the architecture of a microprocessor that is an ASIC. That's what makes it an ASIC. Conversely, you can have something called a FPGA or CPLD (I'll let you wiki those). These are configurable ICs. They CAN also be microprocessors. They can be anything (digitally, and SOMETIMES in analog) you want them to be, given area and resource constraints. To put it in simpler terms, the distinction between something like an ASIC and the FPGA is how they're architecturally configured, either before or after fabrication. An ASIC is a one-time thing- you fabricate it, and if there is a design or architectural issue, you have to work around it in software, or redesign and re-fabricate (which is ungodly expensive). An FPGA is fabricated, but then later configured, at the cost of power, area, and frequency. NASA likes to use FPGAs and CPLDs because they can fix hardware issues (sometimes caused by foreign particles) in their design without having to access the chip. Intel/AMD/NVIDIA use ASICs in their processors due to lower cost, higher density, lower power, and higher frequencies. You CAN have a "CPU" or "GPU" in an FPGA, but that's usually just for prototyping, and given today's CPU and GPU gate densities, it usually takes a giant FPGA or a network of them to handle that job. They can be used for a variety of other tasks, but I could talk about FPGAs for hours.
I sincerely hope that clears this up. This isn't even a debate of semantics. If you want to believe the sky is polka-dotted purple, go ahead, but for the sake of everyone else in this thread, I'm dropping this extremely silly debate (you learn this distinction clearly in the first week of a semiconductor physics class). PM me if you want to me to explain it further or if you have any questions on this topic.

No one in the semiconductor industry refers to microprocessors as ASICs, even if 100% of what you say is technically correct.

I'll just cite one of thousands of Google documents that backs this assertion:

http://www.interfacebus.com/ASIC_IC_Manufacturers.html

The lack of Intel and AMD on the list is what you're looking for.
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