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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 220

post #6571 of 12286
9/7/12 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes I agree, cost of having these two guys come to my house would be very high. In my case both UMR and D-Nice help me at a very minimal cost or nothing at all.
In return I have done the same for other AVS members. That said, don't expect these guys to help for free or a discount, they were simply returning the help they received when they first started out, as I did.
I am not saying that anybody's hardware is bad or good, all I am saying (imo) is if you want the best from the display/hardware you have then it all comes down to exacting settings (calibration) done on your display. I have never seen any hardware or copied setting work as well as a exact calibration done for that display, done by someone that really knows what they are doing. BTW I am not saying that any of this is necessary (hardware or calibration) to enjoy your VT50.
My video equipment chain consists only of a Oppo Blu Ray player (2 HDMI ports, one for video and one for audio) , Comcast HD cable box, connected directly to my VT50 via HDMI cables.
If you compare my charts to the ones I posted from Jeff's charts, you will plainly see his calibration is better and more detailed.
So all I am really saying is, that if you are going to the expense of paying hundreds of dollars or higher on hardware to improve your PQ, then the expense of a very good calibration done by a top notch calibrator becomes more important and less expensive then extra hardware you are buying to improve your PQ. As for the DIY calibrators like me, it becomes more of a hobby, and the more I learn the more I know that there is always room for improvement with my calibration settings.
ss

Just curious, can you tell the difference in PQ when you compare yours and pro calibration by the naked eye?
I wonder if there is a point at which all is different is the numbers , but no visible changes are noticeable.
When I was playing with different settings, done by different people and myself with crappy meter I would see little difference, but never anything huge.
I also never experience that superior quality with some new settings compared to THX which I believe is pretty good.
I guess like you said, only pro calibrator can make that picture pop (assuming his taste will fit your needs) as numbers not always be a valid way to calibrate.
If I purchase any calibration equipment , I do it for the learning experience. It is just fun.
But, to become the pro calibrator i would have to change my carrier.
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post #6572 of 12286
9/7/12 at 7:20am
I watched the 2nd half of The Fellowship of the Rings, extended version on blu-ray on my Panasonic 65VT50, in THX Cinema mode, and the motion blur was so bad it was hard on the eyes. I was sitting about 8 feet away from it. I've watched this movie several times on different LCD displays and never noticed all this motion blur. Is it the TV, or is it just because it's a bigger screen? THX doesn't allow for any motion correction options. I've had the THX modes calibrated. Shortly after the TV is paid for, I'd like an isf calibration done by a qualified individual. Maybe in an isf mode, the motion blur wouldn't be quite so bad.
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post #6573 of 12286
9/7/12 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes you are 100% right on both of your posts concerning me.
There are two areas that the DIY (like me) calibrators can not match Jeff. The first is how he sets his light levels, mainly because most of us would not spent $10,000 on a light meter. The second is his experience of years of Calibrating.
Here is a example of factual charts on a UMR calibration for a 65VT50, not just me saying hes good but backing up what I say.
The two very interesting things I find in these Charts/Grafts are he uses Skin, Sky and Foliage value and color to plot the same, also take a look at the Display Gamma almost perfect. ...ss

Isn't it also interesting that Jeff doesn't really need to stray too far from the stock settings as compared to many of the settings I've seen posted...here, or at CNet, for example. It comes from having a simultaneous grasp of how we perceive video as well as the strengths in the display device needed to achieve the most accurate picture. In reality, accurately reproducing the foliage, face and sky colors are more important to good video than the primaries. Those colors are the ones that we can most easily and quickly tell are wrong if not rendered accurately, they're the ones that give us the visual cues we use in nature to determine the time of day, the seasons, weather, a person's physical condition. And I'll admit I was surprised that he did not need to touch the gamma adjustments to get a nearly perfect gamma curve which, I think, goes to show that the guys who designed these sets also know what is most important in good video. Just a little tweaking, but in the right places, goes a long way...most of the tradeoffs have already be implemented in the design (on a VT50). When I hear stories of professional calibrators spending 4-5 hours performing grey scale adjustments I immediately think that this is not a guy who's coming to my house...as a previous poster stated "they're missing the forest for the trees."

Sean
Edited by Sean_S - 9/7/12 at 7:35am
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post #6574 of 12286
9/7/12 at 9:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blwegrzyn View Post

Just curious, can you tell the difference in PQ when you compare yours and pro calibration by the naked eye?
I wonder if there is a point at which all is different is the numbers , but no visible changes are noticeable.
When I was playing with different settings, done by different people and myself with crappy meter I would see little difference, but never anything huge.
I also never experience that superior quality with some new settings compared to THX which I believe is pretty good.
I guess like you said, only pro calibrator can make that picture pop (assuming his taste will fit your needs) as numbers not always be a valid way to calibrate.
If I purchase any calibration equipment , I do it for the learning experience. It is just fun.
But, to become the pro calibrator i would have to change my carrier.

Yes I can, to me its in the light settings especially from 10% to 30% (dark scenes). In this range my I1pro2 is very iffy so it becomes very hard to insure that the setting are correct. Read more below on color.

Yes I feel the same way as you, I enjoy calibrating but I would never do this for a living.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_S View Post

Isn't it also interesting that Jeff doesn't really need to stray too far from the stock settings as compared to many of the settings I've seen posted...here, or at CNet, for example. It comes from having a simultaneous grasp of how we perceive video as well as the strengths in the display device needed to achieve the most accurate picture. are more important to good video than the primaries. Those colors are the ones that we can most easily and quickly tell are wrong if not rendered accurately, they're the ones that give us the visual cues we use in nature to determine the time of day, the seasons, weather, a person's physical condition. And I'll admit I was surprised that he did not need to touch the gamma adjustments to get a nearly perfect gamma curve which, I think, goes to show that the guys who designed these sets also know what is most important in good video. Just a little tweaking, but in the right places, goes a long way...most of the tradeoffs have already be implemented in the design (on a VT50). When I hear stories of professional calibrators spending 4-5 hours performing grey scale adjustments I immediately think that this is not a guy who's coming to my house...as a previous poster stated "they're missing the forest for the trees."
Sean

Yes Jeff will adjust according to the readings that are feed back from his meters. Sometimes very small adjustments like he did on your VT50, but that's not to say in some cases more broader adjustments are needed.

Yes I never knew about the "In reality, accurately reproducing the foliage, face and sky colors", I found that to be very interesting and impressive also.

On a side note and to be fair, I am sure there are other very fine calibrators out there but I will only speak of the ones I know and what there results are. I advise anybody looking for a Calibrator to check out 'htwaits' thread and read all the reviews that have been posted on what kind of TV/projector they need calibrated. Then E-mail the one or two you think would best suit your needs and explain exactly what you want done, to insure you that they can do it.

ss
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post #6575 of 12286
9/7/12 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I do not claim to know jack about a proper calibration. I would love to spend some quality time with a good calibrator. If that is what sally meant, then I fully agree. I just did not read the post that way. We were discussing hardware, so I dont understand the post at all really.
What I understood sillysally to have posted is that hardware gimmicks come an go. He pointed out that he doesn't know anything about the current one.

Second, he posted that anyone, with an interest in learning to calibrate displays and in helping others in that regard, might be better served spending that "hardware" money on a visit from someone like Jeff (UMR) as a learning experience. In this instance, sillysally is speaking from direct experience.

Third, my observation is that I agree with you. You didn't understand his post. wink.gif

Fourth, my prediction is that sillysally has no interest in debating the value of the current hardware topic. smile.gif

I fully get what you are laying down. We were just trying to have a conversation about a particular piece of hardware. I am pretty sure we should be able to do that without getting advice on our finances or being labeled as know it alls. I have received several PM's as of late from people that have been left feeling underwhelmed after a calibration. This has not detoured me from my interest in the hobby. I will invest my time and money into my calibration venture as I see fit. I am still on the hunt for equipment. Once I fill that department, I will move onto the next step. For the time being, I will continue to assess the performance of the Darblet, which IMO is far from a gimmick.
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post #6576 of 12286
9/7/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

On a side note and to be fair, I am sure there are other very fine calibrators out there but I will only speak of the ones I know and what there results are. I advise anybody looking for a Calibrator to check out 'htwaits' thread and read all the reviews that have been posted on what kind of TV/projector they need calibrated. Then E-mail the one or two you think would best suit your needs and explain exactly what you want done, to insure you that they can do it. ss

Agreed.

I believe that an "objectively" correct image is attainable, irregardless of my preference, and I want my set calibrated to it as closely as possible. Some calibrators know where at display's weak points are and that is where "they" have to make trade offs in adjustments. For example, according to Jeff, in many displays the math used in the color space is wrong...sure the primaries are correct--there is no calculation involved there--but other points are incorrect (he has measured them). So if the math is wrong and you only measure primaries and secondaries, the colors that matter, like faces and grass, may be off. So a calibrator worth his salt would notice this and make the necessary compromises in order to mitigate the errors. If there were no errors a CMS would not be needed except to attain a "non standard" image.

Sean
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post #6577 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:04am
I just ordered the Chromapure upgrade for the Lumagen Radiance color cube update. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference the 125 color points will make. I'm very happy with my picture now so it's hard to belive that there will be a huge difference.

biggrin.gif I love new toys!!!!
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post #6578 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

I watched the 2nd half of The Fellowship of the Rings, extended version on blu-ray on my Panasonic 65VT50, in THX Cinema mode, and the motion blur was so bad it was hard on the eyes. I was sitting about 8 feet away from it. I've watched this movie several times on different LCD displays and never noticed all this motion blur. Is it the TV, or is it just because it's a bigger screen? THX doesn't allow for any motion correction options. I've had the THX modes calibrated. Shortly after the TV is paid for, I'd like an isf calibration done by a qualified individual. Maybe in an isf mode, the motion blur wouldn't be quite so bad.
Interesting, I too have seen terrible motion blur in THX modes. But not on BD, however, I transitioned to "custom" settings (using only, 15 sharpness and little or no contour enhancement) rather quickly and haven't noticed excessive motion blur to be an issue on any of my sources. That said, I have a 55VT50 and sit about 10’ and often farther from the screen.
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post #6579 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I just ordered the Chromapure upgrade for the Lumagen Radiance color cube update. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference the 125 color points will make. I'm very happy with my picture now so it's hard to belive that there will be a huge difference.
biggrin.gif I love new toys!!!!

I was wondering who would be our VT50 beta site.smile.gif
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post #6580 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I fully get what you are laying down. We were just trying to have a conversation about a particular piece of hardware. I am pretty sure we should be able to do that without getting advice on our finances or being labeled as know it alls. I have received several PM's as of late from people that have been left feeling underwhelmed after a calibration. This has not detoured me from my interest in the hobby. I will invest my time and money into my calibration venture as I see fit. I am still on the hunt for equipment. Once I fill that department, I will move onto the next step. For the time being, I will continue to assess the performance of the Darblet, which IMO is far from a gimmick.
Wow, can't we all just get along? Isn't this hobby supposed to be fun? Just kidding guys, I'm not trying to get into this fubar conversation.
Anywho, I'm happy to read Topper's assessments of the Darblet. I got mine yesterday and am contemplating returning it. The ARC issue is huge to me as is the minimal improvement on lesser HD sources (non-BD). If I did install the Darblet, I'm thinking of putting it between the BD player and the AVR. The other option might be to get an ARC compliant switch I can use between the AVR and VT50. One side of the switch would pass the signal unaltered to HDMI2 on the VT50 and the other would go to the Darblet then HDMI1. Anyone, advice on these two options would be greatly appreciated. biggrin.gif
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post #6581 of 12286
9/7/12 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I was wondering who would be our VT50 beta site.smile.gif

I'm just up the road from you so you'll have to check it out. Of course it's an expensive price of admission for the Lumagen.
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post #6582 of 12286
9/7/12 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxme View Post

Interesting, I too have seen terrible motion blur in THX modes. But not on BD, however, I transitioned to "custom" settings (using only, 15 sharpness and little or no contour enhancement) rather quickly and haven't noticed excessive motion blur to be an issue on any of my sources. That said, I have a 55VT50 and sit about 10’ and often farther from the screen.

Are you guys really saying that the THX mode can't handle movement? That seems really bad if true, almost absurd. Would be nice if someone could shed some more light on this.
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post #6583 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

Are you guys really saying that the THX mode can't handle movement? That seems really bad if true, almost absurd. Would be nice if someone could shed some more light on this.

I've noticed "some" movement problems for a while, so for animation, I've been using Cinema (non THX) with motion correction (forgot exact name) set at maximum with excellent results. I've watched a lot of action movies in THX Cinema without a lot of motion problems, but when I watched The Fellowship of the Ring movie, 2nd half, it was almost unbearable to watch, during the fight scenes. Especially inside the cave with the cave troll was bad. It was on a blu-ray btw, if it matters. Using an OPPO 93 player.

Perhaps I need to experiment with the settings in the OPPO player?
Edited by CatBrat - 9/7/12 at 1:20pm
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post #6584 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

Are you guys really saying that the THX mode can't handle movement? That seems really bad if true, almost absurd. Would be nice if someone could shed some more light on this.

I thought that the "movement smoothing" settings (off, low, medium, high) were available in all modes under the "advanced" menu option.

jdg
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post #6585 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:26pm
Just unboxed my 65VT50, August 2012 build date, model number on back is TC-P65VT50-2.

Anyone else have a -2 version and know what if anything the -2 signifies?
Edited by Jason Bourne - 9/7/12 at 2:07pm
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post #6586 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne View Post

Just unboxed by 65VT50, August 2012 build date, model number on back is TC-P65VT50-2.

Anyone else have a -2 version and know what if anything the -2 signifies?
In the cases I've read about, that type of appendage to a model number has no meaning for the owner, and doesn't represent any change in the display or other device.
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post #6587 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne View Post

Just unboxed by 65VT50, August 2012 build date, model number on back is TC-P65VT50-2.
Anyone else have a -2 version and know what if anything the -2 signifies?

Need some pics once you get the TV going! smile.gif
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post #6588 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDG View Post

I thought that the "movement smoothing" settings (off, low, medium, high) were available in all modes under the "advanced" menu option.
jdg

Only the isf modes. It's grayed out in THX.
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post #6589 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatBrat View Post

Only the isf modes. It's grayed out in THX.

They are available in custom mode too
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post #6590 of 12286
9/7/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

They are available in custom mode too

Whats the difference between ISF modes and custom modes? If the motion setting is only available there it's really bad new for us living in Europe, as the VT50s here are light capped in Custom modes (assuming it is the same a Professional modes)
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post #6591 of 12286
9/7/12 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

Whats the difference between ISF modes and custom modes? If the motion setting is only available there it's really bad new for us living in Europe, as the VT50s here are light capped in Custom modes (assuming it is the same a Professional modes)

The ISFccc Interface and Custom share the same template. The Motion Setting is available (and can be enabled/disabled) in both Custom and ISFccc, at anytime.

However, here the ISFccc Interface has 4 memories that are added per Input (isf Night, isf Day for 2D and isf Night, isf Day for 3D).


.
Edited by turbe - 9/7/12 at 2:11pm
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post #6592 of 12286
9/7/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Need some pics once you get the TV going! smile.gif

Yeah just started running slides so next week some time...

Also just received my Darbee; that thing is not going to win any design awards but I read it does good stuff.
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post #6593 of 12286
9/7/12 at 2:11pm
I read this blurb in the receivers forum.
Can anyone confirm on ARC output of the VT
Quote:
(eg. Panasonic) limit the ARC audio to only stereo while allowing DD 5.1 to pass over the optica

With the netflix built in, I've yet to hook up the Roku up.
I'm not done finalizing details on final AVR / speaker hookup though.
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post #6594 of 12286
9/7/12 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne View Post

Just unboxed my 65VT50, August 2012 build date, model number on back is TC-P65VT50-2.
Anyone else have a -2 version and know what if anything the -2 signifies?

At the least it means nothing. At the most it has the latest firmware updates.

Reality may be somewhere in between.
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post #6595 of 12286
9/7/12 at 3:20pm
Please let us know if you have the vertical band on the right side.
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post #6596 of 12286
9/7/12 at 6:11pm
How sensitive is the louvre filter on the VT50 to vertical viewing angels? If I get a VT50, I might have to mount it so that the bottom of the screen is at head level due to "room requirements", and I would prefer if I didn't have to tilt it forward.
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post #6597 of 12286
9/7/12 at 7:43pm
Only issue I have with the tv is the judder problem, people have stated that it's not the tv but the source but for me it happens when watching tv or Bluray so it seems like everything but to be fair I have notice it on my brothers st30 but notice more severe on my set the 55vt50...wouldn't complain if it wasn't to severe that it takes my attention Everytime I see it
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post #6598 of 12286
9/7/12 at 8:50pm
Can someone explain why Mosquito NR should be set to off? What are the negatives of having it on?
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post #6599 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:21pm
can the VT50 firmware be uploaded to the tv using a usb thumbdrive or does it have to be done using an SD memory card? Optionally can a user update the firmware by using a network connection that downloads the firmware and upgrades (Same way a blu-ray player can use a network connection to check for any firmware updates and allow the user to download it and automatically upgrade)?

Cheers,
J-Dogg
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post #6600 of 12286
9/7/12 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

How sensitive is the louvre filter on the VT50 to vertical viewing angels? If I get a VT50, I might have to mount it so that the bottom of the screen is at head level due to "room requirements", and I would prefer if I didn't have to tilt it forward.

I very much doubt you'll have a problem with that kind of angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post

can the VT50 firmware be uploaded to the tv using a usb thumbdrive or does it have to be done using an SD memory card? Optionally can a user update the firmware by using a network connection that downloads the firmware and upgrades (Same way a blu-ray player can use a network connection to check for any firmware updates and allow the user to download it and automatically upgrade)?
Cheers,
J-Dogg

It can be updated over the network.
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