Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 29

I did say I would prolly get d-Nice to perform a Cal at some point. But listen, I and others can spend whatever we want on whatever we want without justifying it to anyone. I would spend $3k (not $4k) over and over again for this set with or without a pro Cal. I like the pic as it is and I feel the extra money is worth it just for the single sheet of glass designe alone. And I don't complain about glasses because I don't watch 3D and don't plan on it.

So for people that look down on those that buy the VT50 without a pro Cal and then call them cheap, I say shame on you and please worry about your own finances.

I've been collecting calibration reports for years now and that hasn't been my experience. The only reports I've ever excluded were reports where the calibrator wasn't named or where the calibrator didn't have a user name here at AVS. The purpose of the calibration lists that I've maintained has been to help people answer for themselves their questions about the worth of having a calibration done. I've never excluded a report because of the "looked very dull and crap" factor. If you read all those reports listed you won't find any like your describe unless the BB boys were involved or someone even more anonymous.

I don't have the time to read all the display threads at AVS so it's possible that I've missed some reports, but I don't think it would be a sample much different those I did find.


I'm not sure what a "ton of people" would be, but I think I pointed that out already.


I would never debate anyone on these points.


A good professional calibrator is going to be just as careful to be sure that any prospective client understands what they will get from a calibration. Do you follow D-Nice's instructions exactly before you make your personal settings adjustments? That's all D-Nice asks people to do. Start with his base line, take a look at the results, and tweak to your own satisfaction.


That last bit seems to be important to you. I'm sure that the best calibrators feel the same way about their work.

It is one things to tweak within a certain degree from the standard to coincide with personal preference yet quite another when being visibly excessive.

Cooked contrast does make things POP, Poop depending on ones pov, but by sacrificing accuracy, consistency, subtlety, dynamic range, all summed to equal lost visual information/fidelity. Never mind how fatiguing it is.

Ditto for sharpness, it really does detract from the picture, fraking halos everywhere.

If you were an audiophile and high fidelity accuracy was your goal, hearing systems with bloated bass or ear searing treble is unconscionable and very annoying.

I used to sell TVs and calibrations, my experience is indeed some folks still prefer the cooked contrast but after proper education most come to realize that proper calibration is video bliss. One or two customers did come back and mentioned that at first they were not satisfied but after becoming accustomed to an accurate image they said that anything else would be unsatisfactory.

When preference clearly deviates from the standard it is wrong.

Subtlety is nuanced beauty.

Best Regards
KvE

A thoughtful response that I thank you for. I had always followed D-Nice instructions to a T from break-in on and have always been very pleased for the most part. He really knows his stuff and is why it will be he who will calibrate my set if anyone will.

I will never claim to be an authority on calibration settings. I only share my experiences in the hope that I may help a few bloaks before we see some D-Nice magic become available. Thank you again for the thoughtful response,

People like 150 Foot Lambert light output because the salesman at BB said that's the way it's supposed to look. THX dark room peak luminance recommendation is 35FtL. It used to be 30 but too many people complained that the picture doesn't look enough like BB (sigh). Furthermore, a lot of post houses turning movies into Blu-Rays use as little a 21FtL on their reference displays.

Try this: look at your TV, now look ten feet left or right. Does the TV look like real life...... NOT!!!!


Zero is not a standard sharpness setting. Some TV Sharpness adjusters are placebos, some can soften an image with too low a setting, and some actually have an unmolested signal with the control set at zero. The only way you'll know is to put up a pattern and find out for yourself.

There is only one way to do it. Turn up Sharp until white, unwanted content shows next to the black lines of a sharpness pattern or the AVSHD flashing pluge pattern (yes, to use that pattern can be genius). Back off until the white is gone. Switch to cable, watch TV.

If no white ever appears you have a placebo. Turn it to zero/neutral and forget about it.

Updated precal settings based on guru's advise:

Custom mode
Contrast +70 (calibrator advice appreciated for a more suitable starting point)
Brightness +54
Tint 0
Color +50
Sharpness 0 (based on expert opinions provided)
Warm 1
Cats off
VNR off
Block NR off
Mosquito off
Motion smoother Weak or off
Black level light

Pro settings:
Panel brightness Mid
AGC 0
Gamma 2.4

Rest is default


I use HD size 1 for satellite viewing because I greatly prefer it to seeing the crap at the top of the screen on most channels. I go to Size 2 for critical viewing.

If anyone wants to contribute rather than tear down, please feel free.

This is the attitude I take issue with. Who is any one person to say what is pleasing to another. Just because it does not look "real" does not mean it is not pleasing to someone. So please do not patronize me in saying that a bb employee told me what to like or what is normal. I may not be a pro but I do not need to be talked down to that way. But I will say that you seem to really know your stuff and can totally respect that. Forgive me if I got too butt hurt over your comments. I am sure you just trying to help.

Maybe a few folks could actually plug in my numbers to tell me if I am a nut job or not.

I'm going to steal your comments and repost them as a quote from you every time I run into the "sharpness" issue. Thanks.

You're welcome. Thanks for letting down your guard a bit.

Calibration these days is a different situation -- I think -- from what it was years ago. The color temperature defaults, out of the box, on many quality TVs are not horribly, terribly off from D65 / 6500K. They tend not to be especially flat. They tend to benefit from tweaking. They tend to look better about being calibrated by a professional. But the different on color temperature or what is more often called greyscale tends to be less night and day then perhaps it once was.

I think these leads to less of the post-calibration reaction of "Huh, that looks muted/dull" that perhaps was once a real thing. Now, even when it was, I still believe most people eventually came to prefer the calibrated TV over the uncalibrated one, but that's another matter.

The pro, however, also adds value in tweaking/fixing gamma and the result of that is often visible detail that you simply couldn't see before. That kind of stuff is the difference between good TVs and really good TVs. If you are already perfectly content with shadow detail on your set, then perhaps a pro calibration makes no sense for you. If you think there's something a little better out there, you've seen a screen shot of your model from someone who had a calibration and gone "wow, I never saw that pattern on her dress before", etc. then you'll know why people get their sets calibrated.

Bottom line is that this is hugely about personal preference. A $4000 TV with a $400 calibration has become 10% more expensive. Is it 10% better? Eye of the beholder.

For me (again barring any showstoppers cropping up over the next month), I'll be getting a 65" VT50 shortly and I fully expect it to be our primary TV for 5 years or so. I also expect it to be the last plasma I'm going to buy (barring some weird closeout deal on a 2016-17 model). After it's broken in, I expect to get a calibration done by one of well-known pros around these parts (some chance I'll buy calibrated from one of the value-added dealers like forum sponsor Cleveland Plasma or the well-known VE).

I figure, I ought to really max it out / enjoy it. We probably have the TV on 4+ hours per day on average and we watch it -- as in pay attention -- for what I'd estimate is around 1000 hours per year. If you have a hobby, say hiking or biking, you'd never hesitate to spend a few dollars extra on some gear that makes those hikes or rides a bit more enjoyable, even if the gear wasn't going to last forever or was going to cost, say, $1-2 per hour of use. The calibration will likely run me less than 10 cents/hour of use. Doesn't seem like a very tough choice.

On the flip side, if your money is tighter, by all means, download one of the calibration discs, roll your own calibration, use D-Nice's setting, etc. Maximize however you can on the cheap and don't lose a minute of sleep over this.

I apologize for offending you as that was not my intention. In a few words, what I said was, "Calibration is not for everyone".

Calibration is to bring a display as close to a known standard as it is capable. The picture is not overly bright because there are brightness standards. The colors aren't overly saturated because there are saturation standards. When a customer tells me there is no "pop" I show him the charts and he reiterates the pop thing. I turn up backlight and contrast and he gets his pop. Meanwhile grayscale, gamma, and color gamut go out the window and the TV is no longer calibrated. The customer is happy, I get my check, and I'm off to the nearest Guinness on draught.

Like I said, calibration isn't for everyone.

I am getting the 65vt50 plasma and plan to set it on THX Cinema with variable full-screen content for at least the first 100 hours. Plan on using THX Bright Room during the day and THX Cinema for night viewing after the 100 hours or so are passed. Don't want to have high contrast during the initial 100 hours. I base this on posts I have read, both here at AVS Forum and another place.

Checked out some other Panasonics at best buy and all of the ST and above models have a small black boarder (only a couple of CMs). I believe this is just a design characteristic of the panels.

That's what I expected. Enjoy.

Annoying bug in every german G15-set, as it seems-> http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...9&thread=11389

MLL doubles in all modes that contain the additional shades of grey!

Those settings look pretty nice Fly. Watching baseball now with those settings and it looks great. I'm having D calibrate it this summer when he goes on tour

Some GT50 owners are reporting a vertical band (some have two) in their sets. Anyone seeing this on their VT50s?

Also, with regard to DSE: is DSE the same thing as "phosphor lag"? Does it cause any problems with gaming, such as with first person shooters (lots of panning).

Hows purchasing from provantage?They have the mrp slashed and when you put it in your cart its 2634.29 backorded of course.

Just heard from Ed Johnson (Calibrator) who just worked on a VT50 at VE store using ControlCAL... His feedback to me: 46fL in isf Day, grayscale gamma excellent (all 10pt Controls working as expected in ControlCAL and Ed stated he was very impressed with ControlCAL's implementation), color gamut very good despite CMS Lum controls not doing anything (highest deltaE 94 is for Blue lum of 1.0 in the Gamut).. MLL .0022fL (he has Klein K-10).

He's impressed with the VT50 from this initial calibration (didn't get time to view a lot of reference material yet, just was was playing up on the wall)...

Great news

Even with its (probably FW fixable) color luminance problem, it looks like Panasonic has come a long way from the VT30s. I assume this is the display to be used this weekend in the Shootout. For those of you unfamiliar, check out value electronics dot com for the webinaire this coming Saturday and Sunday. This is THEE place for
objective (professional calibrators) and subjective (the audience) reviews on the best consumer displays of the year.

Thanks man. I am glad to hear some feedback. Without D-Nice settings we have to start somewhere, right?

I am happy to hear any suggestions or tweaks, but I am loving this set regardless.

Enjoy the game

My VT50 settings will be available in June along with GT50 settings.

Sounds good D. We need you man. We are hacking it up without you. Can't wait. Any plans on visiting New England this year?

Apparently it is not an issue depending on whether ControlCAL or CalMAN is used for adjusting the settings. I used CalMAN, and CalMAN acknowledged the issue and is working on it. I am assured ControlCAL does not have the issue and I will be using ControlCAL to do the follow up.

Edit: Donnymac, I just saw your answer. You're right.

If you mean Boston.... July

I'm waiting for my vt50 to arrive but can't help but wonder if I made
the right decision going with it. I was also
Looking at sharps elite, have any of you guys seen
Both sets and could share what you thoughts.

"Originally Posted by TopperMcFly
Regarding sharpness, I will accept what the pros here are saying and I will revisit that aspect. But I can't help but feel the pic goes a hair fuzzy with it at 0. I will take a hard look at that. I really appreciate the input from everyone. I am like the majority here that are just armchair DIY calibrators that just like to share experiences to hopefully learn a few things that may help each other out. Zero is not a standard sharpness setting. "
Just to add a bit of info into the whole sharpness debate. When I had my Panasonic TH-65PZ850U ISF calibrated by a real calibrator, Doug Weil) my sharpness setting was at 50 out of the box but according to his tests and findings he lowered it to 40 in order to remove all traces of edge enhancement according to the report. PQ has and still does look amazing with no artifacts or halos. I seem to remember some discussion about how 50 was the correct setting for some Panasonic plasmas but not sure what the whole outcome was. Either way, my display looks great.

How about a quick tour of the Toronto area, eh!! Could easily round up a 1/2 dozen folks with new GT50s and VT50s just here in this thread alone!

Any Canadians wanting a D-Nice tour of the Great White North, let yourselves be heard!

Setup the new 55" today. Picture looks great, as expected, hopefully will get it calibrated after breakin. The controversial bezel looks good during the day, grabs a little light at night, but not bad. I have patiently been waiting for the vt50 since I returned a vt30 2 months ago. I qualify for FFP pricing from Panasonic, however I am tired of the wait, and it looks like Panasonic direct isn't close to placing the orders and shipping them out. One problem I have noticed that will require a phone call tomorrow is a loud fan noise from the back. It fluctuates in volume, but at its loudest I could hear it just as much as I could hear my refrigerator from a distance. I am hoping this will go away, and if not an easy exchange through BB.