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Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 313

post #9361 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Use your new VT50 and watch the Game on Sunday.
We are only taking about a chance of a little IR, if at all. Anyway there's always the sweep tool with your new VT50

As I said before, 1st and foremost enjoy the great TV,

I got my VT50 running the sweep right now, because I just got done running the new Calman beta software's 3D LUT cube calibration..

In the words of the great one," how sweet it is".

ss

Also, it's not the game on the display for a solid 3 hrs. Half of that time is commercials and halftime so you can essentially count that time as IR scrubbing.

Agree - just enjoy it!
post #9362 of 13486
We've had our 65VT50 for about 3 weeks now... no signs of IR when we watch 2.35x1 or 4:3 content. Running in Custom mode... setting close to THX night. I'd say don't worry so much, unless you notice the IR on your set.
post #9363 of 13486
I'm wondering if my 65VT can be the cause of a very slight synching problem. I have DirecTV (multiple receivers), and this problem occurs only on those receivers connected to my 65VT. Whether I watch things live or via recordings, the audio appears to be ever so slightly out of sync with the video. It's not horrible, but it's noticeable to the "trained" eye.

I don't think it's my Onkyo 3008, either, because I don't recall having this problem before I got my Panny a few months ago.
post #9364 of 13486
My DISH Hopper was WAYYYY out of sync on the first day.

I unplugged the HDMI Cable and re-installed. It seemed to fix the problem.
post #9365 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Vader View Post

I'm wondering if my 65VT can be the cause of a very slight synching problem. I have DirecTV (multiple receivers), and this problem occurs only on those receivers connected to my 65VT. Whether I watch things live or via recordings, the audio appears to be ever so slightly out of sync with the video. It's not horrible, but it's noticeable to the "trained" eye.

I don't think it's my Onkyo 3008, either, because I don't recall having this problem before I got my Panny a few months ago.

you aren't crazy. two things you can do. 1) Check the tv and disable all of its motion smoothing and picture processing (noise reduction). or 2) if you want to keep all of those other things on (or they are already all off and you have the problem), go to your AVR and look for a 'LipSynch' option (usually under HDMI setup) and enable it. If you don't have that feature you'll need to find the 'audio delay' feature for the TV input on that receiver and set it. Start at about 30milliseconds and then go forwards or backwards from there.
post #9366 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

go to your AVR and look for a 'LipSynch' option (usually under HDMI setup) and enable it.

Doesn't the TV also have to support LipSynch? If so, does the VT50 and would it have to be turned on there too? What does LipSynch do anyhow? It must have something do with HDMI.
post #9367 of 13486
Does anyone have issues playing back M4V/MP4 files via USB or DLNA? I get stutter every few seconds where it looks like a frame or 2 is getting dropped. What's interesting is that if I remux the same files into an MKV container they play back flawlessly.

The videos are H.264 high profile 3.1, 1280x720, with AAC and AC3 audio. They are encoded with the standard High Profile preset in Handbrake with the addition of the detelecine filter when needed. The files originate from my TiVo and are decrypted and immediately sent to Handbrake for encoding.

I'd really like to figure out what the VT50 doesn't like about the MP4 container vs the MKV container. My whole library is in MP4 to maintain compatibility with all my Apple gear, but I'd love to be able to use the DLNA feature to access that library directly from the VT50.

Anyone have any thoughts on what to do?
post #9368 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Doesn't the TV also have to support LipSynch? If so, does the VT50 and would it have to be turned on there too? What does LipSynch do anyhow? It must have something do with HDMI.

Ok, so answering these accurately would require a lot of detail that I could mangle and there are quite a few good threads about it, but I recommend you don't read them unless you want to become extremely OCD =]

So, i'll generalize it like this. The lipsynch feature just takes the HDMI pipeline and if synch data is present (from the sources) it will tweak the audio delay accordingly. Since most devices cause some sort of delay (like BR players) I was counting on the offeset from sources maybe mitigating his tv lag to the point where he didn't notice it - so if it works, then great - if not, then on to the audio delay route. The audio delay is ofcourse the best place to work with, but a lot of people don't have the tolerance to tweak at this level.

The TV doesn't need a lipsynch feature in order for the AVR to remedy the issue, but I believe this one has it. I'm not entirely sure on whether enabling it will send handshake data back to the AVR, which is why I am not speaking about it since I don't know. It could just be a lipsynch feature for if you hooked up a BR to the TV directly it could perform the same task as the AVR is doing with its lipsynch feature.
post #9369 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolausp View Post

Thanks for the encouragement! I appreciate it.

I purchased the WOW disc already since I've read on these forums that maybe it's pixel sweep thing is a better option than the Panasonic one.

Should I use, say, the THX Cinema mode for the first 100 hours or so? Or is there another mode that's even more recommended for this? Do I turn the contrast down? I've read that not having the TV on bright settings for the first 100-200 hours or so can't help prevent IR or burn-in, etc.

Yes THX Cinema is fine (that's what I used for break-in), and there is no need to turn down contrast. If you can, close the blinds if the sun is shining through for a little more pop and detail in your picture.

Enjoy that game!

ss
post #9370 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

Nice write up, thanks for taking the time. Couple of questions. I am sure I missed it, but are both televisions in the same room when you were viewing them? Do you notice any more lag with one television over the other?

You didn't miss it on them posts, but way earlier in the forums you would see my slow growth of explanations here.

Anyway, long story short, the 2 TV's are actually in 2 different houses. VT50 at my moms house. XBR950 for me at my house.

That said, I did a FULL tv shootout at Magnolias (this is what you would have read about in earlier posts in both this forum and the XBR950 forum). I brought tons of material and some of it wasn't just normal material, some was strictly for testing/stressing certain situations. Brought my Xbox 360, games, etc.. Spent ALL day there literally ! I knew I was buying 2 TV's, one for my mom, one for me. I was able to have tv's side by side.

It took about 2 hours for me to narrow it down to 2 tv's (which was quick IMO) - Either the VT50 or the XBR950 (or one of each). And yes, the Elite was there. Didn't like the motion of it at all on ANY setting. Also, its viewing angle was even worse than the XBR950, and that viewing angle is bad. Spent the next 6 hours shooting out things between the VT50 and the XBR950.

Longer story long, and to JUST answer your question - The XBR950 has less lag than the VT50. Yet another reason I like the 950 for gaming over the VT50. And the sad news is, the XBR950's lag was something I had to stomach coming from a old SD tv.
post #9371 of 13486
Joel, was the Elite playing a blu-ray? I saw the same horrible motion problems on the Elite at a magnolia and at my house, but once I adjusted a setting in my PS3 to turn OFF 24p and turn off motion enhancement on the tv (or whatever it's called) the Elite looks GREAT. Not like an LCD at all. In fact that was my single biggest concern with the set (much more than pulsing or cyan) when coming from a DLP which did motion beautifully.
post #9372 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsu96 View Post



Here's a picture showing the border I referred to earlier. Displayed the graphic on an LED TV and the border was visible the entire way around. On my VT50, the border is only visible on the right and at the bottom. It's not much of a difference regardless, and the image looks better than I'd expect scaling using Size 1, but being able to center the image properly and use as many pixels as possible without scaling would be nice...

Do you have the pixel orbiter turned on?
post #9373 of 13486
Long time lurker and finally decided to chime in on the whole IR Issue. I own a 5 year old Panny PZ700U (looking to upgrade to the VT50 or the ZT60) that I purchased with the help of this forum (asking questions, reading comments, etc.) Like a lot of you, I was OCD about IR as I play a lot of video games and that was my main concern 5 years ago when I decided to go the plasma route (so glad I did). In the 5+ years that I've owned this TV, I have had LONG gaming sessions (6+ hours), football on all day (Sat and Sun), the dreaded black bars displayed when watching movies and just about everything else you can think of. After a week or two I grew tired of "babying" the Panny due to fears of IR or burn in, so I just started watching TV as I normally would and I've never looked back.

To this day, I still see IR on my set from time to time. I see the red Netflix banner that's at the top of the screen when a light background is displayed, or sometimes I"ll see a station logo on a light background. However, after a minute or so of watching something else I never see it again. I do not go out of my way to look for IR, nor do I even think about it when I watch 9 solid hours of football on Sundays. The point is, you're going to get IR. But it'll go away.

I do not have on-hand experience with today's newer plasmas, but based on my personal experience, my advice would be to stop worrying about it so much and just enjoy these beautiful TV's. Again, you're going to get IR. And if you do, just watch TV like you normally would. Having other content displayed will eventually remove any traces of it. I don't think you need to go out of your way to always run a scrolling bar or pixel orbiter. Just enjoy watching your TV.

Just my two-cents.
post #9374 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagz View Post

Yesterday i played NBA jams for about an hr on thx cinema setting. Ran the slides, you can see some of the game IR'd in. Ran the Panny washer. GONE.

This is my little story having this TV since Jan 11th. I have about 150 hours on this screen.

Questions? Comments?
The "Game" mode changes some settings that reduce the lag, so you probably want to use that for gaming. But, it also cranks up the intensity, so you should probably calibrate it back down to match something like THX (or your custom settings). This should help with the IR when gaming.

I can't see IR on my VT50 during normal viewing, even if it's really obvious when running slides or the moving bar. If you can't see it during normal viewing, just use your TV as normal and you likely won't have any problems, unless "normal" for you is playing the same game 10 hours a day, every day. If you mix up the content, you should be fine.
post #9375 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Mother View Post

Joel, was the Elite playing a blu-ray? I saw the same horrible motion problems on the Elite at a magnolia and at my house, but once I adjusted a setting in my PS3 to turn OFF 24p and turn off motion enhancement on the tv (or whatever it's called) the Elite looks GREAT. Not like an LCD at all. In fact that was my single biggest concern with the set (much more than pulsing or cyan) when coming from a DLP which did motion beautifully.

Well it was some Blu-Ray's that I brought in and also a motion shot that I specifically test for motion that I have on a USB thumb drive. All media was played through a Oppo BDP 93 at Magnolias, and all settings were set to what I thought was properly. The Oppo allowed us to shot the identical signal out 2 HDMI ports simultaneously, and so I could compare 2 TV's at a time.

That said, I am almost sure I tried flicking between the 24p and motion enhancements, off, on and in every possible combination. It was not doing the bad flicker like motion that 24p causes. Its more of a funny movement feeling, but only during certain panning scenes, and then will go away. EVERY HD tv has these issues with motion enhancements turned off, period.. ALL of them, cause all do. But the difference is, on every other set, I could find a setting combination that would pass my "motion scene" test. The Elite, I could not find one.

Again, this is not a "horrible" thing that is easily noticed. Nor is it all the time. It is only when the shot is a slow to medium pan and a decent amount of detail is going on in the picture. It gets even more noticeable if at that same moment there is also motion in the background moving in the opposite direction of the pan. Then once the shot is over and it gets to the next cut away, its back to normal. Sometimes only happens once or twice in a movie.

Some people don't even notice it, but I do and am unfortunately extremely anal about it. Cause find the SD version of the same movie, and watch it on a older SD tv, and you wont see the same issue EVER. Because of that, I do not think it is a acceptable thing to live with.

Hmmm, I am very glad you are not experiencing this. But at this point I am wondering if you've seen it and just not noticed it. Its just a ever so slight change in the pans movement that makes it look slightly less fluid.

Some classic popular scenes that do this are. The Avengers BD... towards the end when they are all grouped together in battle for the first time and get in that circle and the camera is low to the ground and pans around to show all their faces. (this one is slight, and mostly easy to handle, but a first running up test).

Next would be Lord Of The Rings Fellowship Of The Ring BD - Beginning once first shot in The Shire. As the camera pans around the whole plantation with the kids running and playing, etc... and Gandolf is on his wagon and the camera is also trying to follow him and Frodo is there, and then later also the kids are playing behind the shot of the wagon, etc.... that WHOLE scene needs to be watched carefully for this at various times.

The other scenes I do for testing this are on some calibration discs.
post #9376 of 13486
Watch the opening scene to The Dark Knight when the joker and two other criminals are first running into the bank after getting out of the SUV. As the camera pans right to bank, the leading edge of the building shakes like crazy. This is one of my test scenes and with 24P on it is almost unwatchable (to me).
post #9377 of 13486
Joel surprised that you find the picture so good when the native full on/off contrast of that tv is 1,797:1 and it requires an extreme mix of SW and HW to get it to the 11,000:1 level, which of course then introducses the blackcrush, bloom, etc. The vt is over 10,000:1. I'm sure some scenes will look better when the hw/sw tweaks get it right, but I just can't stand inconsistent quality throughout.
post #9378 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Joel surprised that you find the picture so good when the native full on/off contrast of that tv is 1,797:1 and it requires an extreme mix of SW and HW to get it to the 11,000:1 level, which of course then introducses the blackcrush, bloom, etc. The vt is over 10,000:1. I'm sure some scenes will look better when the hw/sw tweaks get it right, but I just can't stand inconsistent quality throughout.

The even more funny thing is, there is no sw/hw tweaks for the XBR950... the only adjustable stuff for pro or not is the consumer level menu ! The VT went through the whole ISF tweaks. Yes both me and Robert were amazed looking at the XBR950 ONLY in comparison to a preconceived notion built up about it from a "spec" view point. Like you pointed out.

Honestly, I believe I see blacker blacks and whiter whites (one extreme to the other) on the 950 than the VT50... without the contrast specs that the VT50 has, tell me how that is possible ?

BUT the VT50 presents the picture slightly better, yes. It looks slightly more rich and has a depth to it, like I could reach into the tv with my eyes. The 950 does not present this. But oddly enough visually it doesn't seem like contrast is the problem to it... though it may be, it just doesn't "look" that way. As I pointed out, I almost blame it not looking as good because it gets more black and more white than the VT50.

Again, I am no professional, nor do I claim to be. I am just pointing out the perception of what I see. Though my calibrator was one of the top in the industry, and he mentioned being surprised about the Sony as well.
post #9379 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by weedeater View Post

Do you have the pixel orbiter turned on?

I tried with it on and off. Turns out it was source related - A standalone Sony BDP S280 player did this. 3 other players (2 different model standalone Sonys and 1 PS3) were absolutely fine and display that test image with full borders on each side but the S280 just seems to get the positioning wrong or at least clip off the top and left of the image. I don't think I've ever heard of players doing that before.
post #9380 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

The even more funny thing is, there is no sw/hw tweaks for the XBR950... the only adjustable stuff for pro or not is the consumer level menu ! The VT went through the whole ISF tweaks. Yes both me and Robert were amazed looking at the XBR950 ONLY in comparison to a preconceived notion built up about it from a "spec" view point. Like you pointed out.

Honestly, I believe I see blacker blacks and whiter whites (one extreme to the other) on the 950 than the VT50... without the contrast specs that the VT50 has, tell me how that is possible ?

BUT the VT50 presents the picture slightly better, yes. It looks slightly more rich and has a depth to it, like I could reach into the tv with my eyes. The 950 does not present this. But oddly enough visually it doesn't seem like contrast is the problem to it... though it may be, it just doesn't "look" that way. As I pointed out, I almost blame it not looking as good because it gets more black and more white than the VT50.

Again, I am no professional, nor do I claim to be. I am just pointing out the perception of what I see. Though my calibrator was one of the top in the industry, and he mentioned being surprised about the Sony as well.

Joel, the XBR950 uses a Dynamic Contrast to make up for its inherent lack of contrast ratio. From rereading your original post it seems like a lot of pro calibrators would be surprised at your results and even told you so? I've not heard of ISF/THX calibrators using the dynamic features in their calibrations since they significantly reduce the fidelity of the screen reproduction and color accuracy, although at times they do work nicely on their lower levels. Who was your calibrator?

Another thing I noticed in your post is that you have observed greater input lag in the plasma over the LCD?

You definitely have one of the more unique experiences I've ever heard of. Thanks for sharing.
post #9381 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabsltd View Post

The "Game" mode changes some settings that reduce the lag, so you probably want to use that for gaming. But, it also cranks up the intensity, so you should probably calibrate it back down to match something like THX (or your custom settings). This should help with the IR when gaming.

I can't see IR on my VT50 during normal viewing, even if it's really obvious when running slides or the moving bar. If you can't see it during normal viewing, just use your TV as normal and you likely won't have any problems, unless "normal" for you is playing the same game 10 hours a day, every day. If you mix up the content, you should be fine.

Its all fixed now. Just didn't think it through when i set the game mode = torch mode.
post #9382 of 13486
Man this is so confusing to read. Can't I just get my tv watch it 100+ hours get it calibrated and be done with it. so much work!
post #9383 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekinMerrick View Post

Man this is so confusing to read. Can't I just get my tv watch it 100+ hours get it calibrated and be done with it. so much work!

Yes, you SHOULD do exactly that if you want to make your life more enjoyable! Avoid a lot of letterbox movies or tv shows with bright logos during that period. Just mix up the content and you'll be golden. Enjoy it. (Oh, and probably switch to THX mode too).
post #9384 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

The even more funny thing is, there is no sw/hw tweaks for the XBR950... the only adjustable stuff for pro or not is the consumer level menu ! The VT went through the whole ISF tweaks. Yes both me and Robert were amazed looking at the XBR950 ONLY in comparison to a preconceived notion built up about it from a "spec" view point. Like you pointed out.

Honestly, I believe I see blacker blacks and whiter whites (one extreme to the other) on the 950 than the VT50... without the contrast specs that the VT50 has, tell me how that is possible ?

BUT the VT50 presents the picture slightly better, yes. It looks slightly more rich and has a depth to it, like I could reach into the tv with my eyes. The 950 does not present this. But oddly enough visually it doesn't seem like contrast is the problem to it... though it may be, it just doesn't "look" that way. As I pointed out, I almost blame it not looking as good because it gets more black and more white than the VT50.

Again, I am no professional, nor do I claim to be. I am just pointing out the perception of what I see. Though my calibrator was one of the top in the industry, and he mentioned being surprised about the Sony as well.

Joel, the XBR950 uses a Dynamic Contrast to make up for its inherent lack of contrast ratio. From rereading your original post it seems like a lot of pro calibrators would be surprised at your results and even told you so? I've not heard of ISF/THX calibrators using the dynamic features in their calibrations since they significantly reduce the fidelity of the screen reproduction and color accuracy, although at times they do work nicely on their lower levels. Who was your calibrator?

Another thing I noticed in your post is that you have observed greater input lag in the plasma over the LCD?

You definitely have one of the more unique experiences I've ever heard of. Thanks for sharing.

Yea, it was a shocker, I think mainly cause most try to judge the 950 like the 929 or previous models, and then once they get it calibrated, they/we are very surprised. Definitely no "dynamic contrast" turned on. (if thats what you meant). I always had that off. It never has been turned on. Now if you meant Sony uses a thing called "dynamic contrast" within the tv as a uncontrollable thing from consumers, then, I guess I have no control over that, and yes, then it is being used. As my post says, my calibrator was/is Robert Busch. As the review says, man, he is awesome ! Definitely highly recommended if your in the greater Bay Area.

I don't think I'm alone on this one or it is as rare as you think. It's just a 950 vs the older "expected" models I think. Since its so new still, it is just now beginning to show situations like this. Maybe ? IDK.

Again, I am not here to say the XBR950 is the best TV. I actually am not saying that at all, but rather the VT50 is the best TV IMO.... The point was that I and my calibrator were very SURPRISED at how well the XBR950 looked after its so simple non-ISF calibration. And how CLOSELY it resembled the VT50. It was just unexpected is all.

Since this is a VT50 thread though, I really don't feel comfortable talking so much about the XBR950. I just was told to share my experience with both tvs on both threads to give everyone as much info as possible.
post #9385 of 13486
Well I bought a 65 incher at BB yesterday and I got the 2 year extended warranty. Currently i have a 10 year old Sony KF-50XBR800 rp lcd. I am kinda scared about burn in being i sometimes game for an entire day, but that is why I went ahead and got the 2 year warranty that covers burn in.
So my plan is to use the tv like I stole it and if it burns so be it, they will be fixing it. If I don't see any burn in or IR issues within the first 3 weeks i will probaly return the BB warranty and just get a ST warranty for cheaper. That's my plan for my new purchase! biggrin.gif
post #9386 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelxD View Post

Yea, it was a shocker, I think mainly cause most try to judge the 950 like the 929 or previous models, and then once they get it calibrated, they/we are very surprised. Definitely no "dynamic contrast" turned on. (if thats what you meant). I always had that off. It never has been turned on. Now if you meant Sony uses a thing called "dynamic contrast" within the tv as a uncontrollable thing from consumers, then, I guess I have no control over that, and yes, then it is being used. As my post says, my calibrator was/is Robert Busch. As the review says, man, he is awesome ! Definitely highly recommended if your in the greater Bay Area.

I don't think I'm alone on this one or it is as rare as you think. It's just a 950 vs the older "expected" models I think. Since its so new still, it is just now beginning to show situations like this. Maybe ? IDK.

Again, I am not here to say the XBR950 is the best TV. I actually am not saying that at all, but rather the VT50 is the best TV IMO.... The point was that I and my calibrator were very SURPRISED at how well the XBR950 looked after its so simple non-ISF calibration. And how CLOSELY it resembled the VT50. It was just unexpected is all.

Since this is a VT50 thread though, I really don't feel comfortable talking so much about the XBR950. I just was told to share my experience with both tvs on both threads to give everyone as much info as possible.

Once again, who was the top calibrator of you're two displays? His advice and experience would be invaluable to all of us.

Robert Busch - thanks I missed that earlier.
Edited by mo949 - 1/19/13 at 7:49am
post #9387 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidog View Post

Well I bought a 65 incher at BB yesterday and I got the 2 year extended warranty. Currently i have a 10 year old Sony KF-50XBR800 rp lcd. I am kinda scared about burn in being i sometimes game for an entire day, but that is why I went ahead and got the 2 year warranty that covers burn in.
So my plan is to use the tv like I stole it and if it burns so be it, they will be fixing it. If I don't see any burn in or IR issues within the first 3 weeks i will probaly return the BB warranty and just get a ST warranty for cheaper. That's my plan for my new purchase! biggrin.gif
If you take a new VT50 and play a game on it for a full day, you will probably have serious image retention. Many heavy duty gamers claim they don't get IR, but I don't know how many of them start right out of the box with long gaming sessions.

It's no wonder BB is having financial difficulty wink.gif.
post #9388 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Watch the opening scene to The Dark Knight when the joker and two other criminals are first running into the bank after getting out of the SUV. As the camera pans right to bank, the leading edge of the building shakes like crazy. This is one of my test scenes and with 24P on it is almost unwatchable (to me).
That pan shows 24fps film issues so well because of the alternating dark/light window/wall columns, and the somewhat darker building just around the corner in the background.

At about the time the first clown is offscreen up the steps (and the other two are directly below the dark/light bands), the pan is moving at a speed such that each successive frame is a movement of one "band". This causes your eyes to see it as if the dark and light are swapping places, and the contrast changes just can't be followed well by your brain.

It takes at least the "Medium" setting on the VT50 Motion Smoother for this effect to be hidden. I have it set to "Weak" on the connection for my media player, but now I might give it an extended test at "Medium".
post #9389 of 13486
This might be just one for the "wish list", but has anyone found a discrete code to kick on the IR Scrolling Bar feature? I would love to be able to quickly turn that on between movies or during commercials. Out of the box it takes 13 keystrokes to get there.
post #9390 of 13486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post

Where do I find the build date?

My TV is already mounted on the wall, can I look it up in the Menu or by the Serial Number?

Thanks

It's in the back of the TV. There is a fairly large label in the center with the model number, serial number and the date of manufacture.
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