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Pioneer Steps Up Elite AVRs - Page 8

post #211 of 263
^^
because they choose not to

they are tied to Motorola boxes, at least in Atlanta, that have only 2 tuners & limited to 250 GB max. At least we finally got 250; used to be 160 with the previous 6412/6416 boxes.

I've looked at Moxi several times over the past 5+ years, which I believe are up to 4 tuners, I think and can put in terrabyte drives.

Moxi, unlike Tivo, you buy the box, own it for life and pay no subscription fee. But like Tivo, Moxi has a proprietary interface using their own servers for online guide and recording. They've been bought several years ago by a well-known provider of voice capable cable modems, I think it's Arris. If they go belly up or Arris decides to shut 'em down, you now own a brick.

maybe we should be getting back to Pioneer
I just couldn't let purdyd's statements about physical media go unchallenged
post #212 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
because they choose not to

they are tied to Motorola boxes, at least in Atlanta, that have only 2 tuners & limited to 250 GB max. At least we finally got 250; used to be 160 with the previous 6412/6416 boxes.

I've looked at Moxi several times over the past 5+ years, which I believe are up to 4 tuners, I think and can put in terrabyte drives.

Moxi, unlike Tivo, you buy the box, own it for life and pay no subscription fee. But like Tivo, Moxi has a proprietary interface using their own servers for online guide and recording. They've been bought several years ago by a well-known provider of voice capable cable modems, I think it's Arris. If they go belly up or Arris decides to shut 'em down, you now own a brick.

maybe we should be getting back to Pioneer
I just couldn't let purdyd's statements about physical media go unchallenged

Well of course in typical fashion you went way off topic and have no clue about things....

The point was and this pertains to pioneer, the USB and Ethernet connections are the most important connectors for AUDIO, today!

Pioneer should team up with companies such as spotify and other stream on demand services

And NTFS, rear USB, and better hmg is a must because, it is very simple to drop all you music onto a 2 terabyte drive and plug it into your receiver

You don't have to turn on your pc or mess with a dlna server

For every Luddite such as yourself, there are ten who have everything digitized

Wireless and 500 kbs is more than fast enough to download AUDIO

As far as digitizing your ancient vinyl, how about when you listen to it, you digitize it at the same time, you do listen to your records?

CD ripping is fastt, and you may not know this, but you don't have to supervise your computer for it to do this, you can easily walk away

And those precious CDs and records are deteriorating as we speak, put it onto a hard drive and make a backup of the drive and that issue is gone

Then of course all of the room those records and CDs take up not to mention finding a song or even playing music for several hours,

Blu ray and hdmi is a different animal, for now, but Internet access speed has evolved about an order of magnitude per decade and it will continue

Streaming video is already taking a big bite out blu ray and DVD and again, you may not know this, you can rip blu rays, honest, and play them through a external hard drive on you oppo (which has rear USB and esata and a usable interface)

To summarize, I mentioned it last year about the sc5x receivers and it remains as far as I can tell

Rear USB with NTFS, playing flac with a usable hmg interface

NTFS because just about every drive comes formatted that way and it is a pain in the ass to reformat as fat32 because windows 7 doesn't have that feature

Flac because the current crop of receivers will play flac, but not from an attached USB drive

Rear USB because it looks like crap to have a drive permanently installed thru the front panel

And better hmg because it is excruciatingly slow, disolays limited info, and the graphics are only DVD quality, perhaps this new crop of receivers have better graphics
post #213 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Rear USB because it looks like crap to have a drive permanently installed thru the front panel

You absolutely do not want to connect a single high-capacity disk directly to the receiver, no matter how tempting it is. You need to be able to connect a RAID array which is located some distance away, maybe in a locked cabinet. Individual disks die at the most inconvenient times.

You also are at the mercy of any pet, child, maid or anyone else (including yourself) fumbling around in the area causing a permanent loss of everything on that disk.

There's a risk of loss very time you unplug a disk to connect it to a computer (e.g. so you can delete files or add something from a source the receiver can't directly access). Unplugging a USB disk at the wrong instant has been known to make it completely unusable, so it can't even be reformatted. (That happend to me. Fortunately I hadn't had time to put much on it.)

There are USB switches for connecting an individual device to multiple computers, which would help avoid physical connector damage, but you still need to be able to logically dismount the disk every time you make a disconnection.

And don't forget that you need to keep it backed up "in the cloud" or to some other location that's physically distant, so you won't be at the mercy of a local catastrophe like a lightning strike, fire or flood. Or theft. Or legal action. (Hmmm. Maybe not that last. )

I think I'll be using a computer with an HDMI connection to the AVR. That avoids a lot of problems and supports solutions that an AVR can't.

How many HDMI ports do the high-end Pioneers have?
post #214 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Well of course in typical fashion you went way off topic and have no clue about things....

The point was and this pertains to pioneer, the USB and Ethernet connections are the most important connectors for AUDIO, today!

I guess we'll connect everything over encrypted, copy protected, hack-proof USB & ethernet.

I hope you're telling the industry this so they can start making the change away from HDMI. Last time I checked, all the latest gear has them

you keep capping AUDIO - when did VIDEO suddenly go away from all this streaming discussion?

you are the one who said physical media is dead, no one else. I believe that includes video, at least for me it does.

Maybe you should consider the implications of your highly generalized blanket statements.
post #215 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

How many HDMI ports do the high-end Pioneers have?

8 in the 68
post #216 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

For every Luddite such as yourself, there are ten who have everything digitized

and spent months or years of their life doing it

hard drives - seen 2 fail and a RAID that wasn't both striped & redundant in the optimum way, blow up and need to be replaced and data restored from tape backups.

the last time I checked none of my CD's, LP's, DVD's, Blu's, even laserdiscs have failed

keep going, for every argument you can give, I can give you several opposing ones
and I'm a luddite...just think what a geekie hip guy like you can come up with.

you have convenience and maybe portability, on your side, depending on where and how much complexity needed to maintain

I have time spent, knowledge needed, software to learn, tech devices needed, backup needed, multiple types of streaming boxes and multiple subscriptions to pay for, on my side to accomplish the same thing as I can with 1 or 2 players and a cable box

But even with that, all can be managed except time. No one can replace the time it takes to rip 1000 or more AUDIO media formats to a hard drive, even if I wanted to find all the questionably legal software to rip SACD's and DVD-A's. NOR the time for copying the 1000+ DVD's, BD's, and HD-DVD's I have, assuming I had the illegal ripping tools to remove copy and multiple layers of BD protection the studios put in. And the courts just ruled against Kalidescope/Escient type copying for DVD/BD. It's illegal, period! They are not going to be able to sell those products anymore. End of discussion.

I already own the disc, why should I spend hours of my precious weekend time over software & devices just to enjoy what I already have. Makes a lot of sense to me, NOT Maybe someone needs more hobbies to pursue other than tech...

As I said, it took an highly knowledgeable MSCE & CCNA certified network admin over a year just to put to hard drive his CD collection onto a RAID NAS, which he spent over a grand on by the time he was done. Sure sounds fruitful to me

we disagree...again...nothing new

I even have to disagree with you on your reasons for shunning future Pioneer products....it pales in comparison with the thousands who spent thousands more than you ever did to own the SC-09
post #217 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

You absolutely do not want to connect a single high-capacity disk directly to the receiver, no matter how tempting it is. You need to be able to connect a RAID array which is located some distance away, maybe in a locked cabinet. Individual disks die at the most inconvenient times.

Yes they do

You also are at the mercy of any pet, child, maid or anyone else (including yourself) fumbling around in the area causing a permanent loss of everything on that disk.

There's a risk of loss very time you unplug a disk to connect it to a computer (e.g. so you can delete files or add something from a source the receiver can't directly access). Unplugging a USB disk at the wrong instant has been known to make it completely unusable, so it can't even be reformatted. (That happend to me. Fortunately I hadn't had time to put much on it.)

There are USB switches for connecting an individual device to multiple computers, which would help avoid physical connector damage, but you still need to be able to logically dismount the disk every time you make a disconnection.

the downsides of relying on all that computer based technology

And don't forget that you need to keep it backed up "in the cloud" or to some other location that's physically distant, so you won't be at the mercy of a local catastrophe like a lightning strike, fire or flood. Or theft. Or legal action. (Hmmm. Maybe not that last. )

And pay someone for the privilege or at least have to maintain some form of physical backup which adds to the cost...back to spending more money again for something you already own

I think I'll be using a computer with an HDMI connection to the AVR. That avoids a lot of problems and supports solutions that an AVR can't.

HDMI - didn't the AV industry been standardizing on it? The last time I checked it wasn't USB

How many HDMI ports do the high-end Pioneers have?

Welcome to the Luddite Club
You too will be on purdy's "not with the times" list...tsk tsk
post #218 of 263
just as a fwiw... i don't really think steve is a luddite, that's just a LONG running joke between the two of us...

does this have to be an either/or? i'm pretty comfortable with one foot in each camp... i still like (and see the need for) shiny disks, but also have a large portion of my music ripped (of the over 2k cd's we have, probably at least 1k are ripped, and eventually i'll work my way through the rest)...

i don't bother ripping movies, it's not worth the time or effort... and to be completely honest (and i'm NOT accusing anyone here of doing this), i would take a wag that 90% of users who have ripped movies have acquired them in "not so legal ways"...

personally, i think the shiny disk and the download will co-exist peacefully for quite some time... there's no pressing reason for that to change anytime soon....
post #219 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

really, I am intrigued with streaming shows, much more so than downloading music/video files.
that's one reason among many why I wanted the Oppo player.

Maximum PC ran an article several months ago about content streaming, services, content & devices. It's both encouraging & discouraging to read.

I was sincerely hoping I could find a way to cut most of the cable cord....unfortunately, when you start looking into the alphabet soup of streaming services & devices needed, it's pretty discouraging to realize the lock the cable companies, studios, and subscription channels have on content... you just can't get even close to a suitable replacement for cable/sat. Sure, I can pay Comcast for HBO Go, but watching Game of Thrones on a smartphone? Even if I'm flying, I'll record it and save for my hidef full surround AV system, thanks. So the good news is, I guess I'm not ADD I freely admit, the ipod has been a lifesaver for flights So, different strokes...

vudu, hulu, netflix, the blockbuster, and many names I never heard of before, and not one of them can supply all the channels or show passes I would want. So, I haven't signed up with any of them yet, let it go until some more time passes & see if more content develops. I have no interest in needing 3 or more streamers just to watch the news and several channels. And the last I checked, HBO won't let those non-cable/sat services have access to their content.

Streaming TV channels is a neat idea, just need to break the lock...

I tried this for a month with my wife. Before no time at all, we ran out of content between Hulu plus and Netflix. There just isn't enough sustained content like satellite or cable. The next thing you do is start scraping the net looking for bootlegged movies and stuff to play.

Ive noticed over the last few years we watch less premium channels though. We have our series mgr full of shows that record from like history, discovery, etc. we watch maybe 2% local broadcast and very little hbo and Shotime anymore.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

one word describes why i can't cut the cord...

sports...

edit: although streaming services have gotten "better" here, i remain firmly attached to the umbilical cord that extends to bristol connecticut... :
o

Rugby and European Soccer League for me
post #220 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Welcome to the Luddite Club
You too will be on purdy's "not with the times" list...tsk tsk

Steve - from the perspective of the Dark Side, you do see the irony of this.....

I still think it's much easier to bypass the whole problem with RAID, connecting hard drives with USB etc. and rip your music to iTUnes to let Airplay do the heavy lifting. Or better yet, Apple TV, so you can stream non-protected video and iTunes purchased video from a PC to the ATV, and then use plain old HDMI to connect to the receiver.

Even us "Luddites" can manage that one.

Of course, you still want to back up the music library on iTunes...but that's what the cloud, and regular backups are for. That's good SOP, period, for any digital content (DRM permitting).

I agree with you about DVD-Audio and SACD, though. It's not worth the time investment relative to the available content IMO. And it gives some of us a reason to keep our investments in universal players around a little longer.

Edit: Chris (ccotenj) beat me to the punch about DVD & BluRay - I agree with him 100% about that content: the time investment isn't worth the tradeoff IMO.
post #221 of 263
Some entertainment sources are only available in one medium, and others in another. I have several hundred laserdiscs, many of which will never be available in digital formats, and the affordable composite-to-digital conversion units I've seen are, shall we say, less than adequate Similarly, there are many entertaining videos which are only available online. One has to decide where to invest one's limited time.

8 ports should be enough, I think!
post #222 of 263
@sdrucker...

yes, i see it...

i agree with the rest (not surprising, since that's how i do it)... and it cannot be emphasized enough how important a good backup plan is...

agree on sacd/dvd-a... i do have a significant number of sacd titles, but it's easy enough to get the disk when i want it... it's not worth jumping through hoops to rip them... likely the only resson i've gotten so far through the cd collection is that it's pretty easy for me to sit there and feed the machine disks while i'm watching a ballgame...
post #223 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Some entertainment sources are only available in one medium, and others in another. I have several hundred laserdiscs, many of which will never be available in digital formats, and the affordable composite-to-digital conversion units I've seen are, shall we say, less than adequate Similarly, there are many entertaining videos which are only available online. One has to decide where to invest one's limited time.

8 ports should be enough, I think!

i want a ld player, but steve is hogging them all up...
post #224 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I tried this for a month with my wife. Before no time at all, we ran out of content between Hulu plus and Netflix. There just isn't enough sustained content like satellite or cable. The next thing you do is start scraping the net looking for bootlegged movies and stuff to play.

Ive noticed over the last few years we watch less premium channels though. We have our series mgr full of shows that record from like history, discovery, etc. we watch maybe 2% local broadcast and very little hbo and Shotime anymore.

....

Rugby and European Soccer League for me

yup, for those of us who really don't watch "broadcast tv shows", it's easy to run out of new material... although i can generally find something on netflix to watch, i like documentaries...

sports, otoh, comprises virtually all of our "non movie" watching... and even though i subscribe to the various packages (sunday ticket, mlb, etc. ), i still "need" that cable wire... and to be honest, i'm not really sure how much i'd "save" if i had to buy unbundled internet service...

cable tv is a indulgence i'm willing to spend money on...
post #225 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Some entertainment sources are only available in one medium, and others in another. I have several hundred laserdiscs, many of which will never be available in digital formats, and the affordable composite-to-digital conversion units I've seen are, shall we say, less than adequate Similarly, there are many entertaining videos which are only available online. One has to decide where to invest one's limited time.

8 ports should be enough, I think!

I don't feel so bad now, since I only have 173 laser disc titles, but I still have a working elite ld player with auto flip scarface on ld looked much better then the video tape to DVD dub they released years ago. Thank god they remastered it for bluray.

Laserdisc are my only legacy connection in the chain, pioneer elite cld99. I gotta give it to pioneer, I'm almost at 20 years of service for the device with no hiccups.
post #226 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@sdrucker...

yes, i see it...

i agree with the rest (not surprising, since that's how i do it)... and it cannot be emphasized enough how important a good backup plan is...

agree on sacd/dvd-a... i do have a significant number of sacd titles, but it's easy enough to get the disk when i want it... it's not worth jumping through hoops to rip them... likely the only resson i've gotten so far through the cd collection is that it's pretty easy for me to sit there and feed the machine disks while i'm watching a ballgame...

You're way ahead of me....I'm not home enough to sit for hours and pop in CDs to copy to iTunes or whatever, so we've only got LT 100 CDs digitized. But even if I wind up using iTunes with .AAC format, I prefer to have the shiny disk as my source material first. I like those liner notes LOL... However, if it's an impulse purchase, and/or it's "compressed to hell modern music" - to coin a phrase - Amazon or Itunes is where I go. Maybe it's a cross-generational thing; but there's still a LOT of us for whom digital downloads is an acquired habit rather than our first choice.

On that note, we should leave this thread to Purdyd and people that actually might be in the market for the SC-6x....
post #227 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

personally, i think the shiny disk and the download will co-exist peacefully for quite some time... there's no pressing reason for that to change anytime soon....

chris

I agree with everything you said in your post. Even to you taking the time to rip your CD's

What I objected to was someone exhausting "warm air" making the untrue statement that ALL physical media is dead now & "it's time is over", when the alternatives to replace them all are in their infancy, not terribly convenient, universal & sometimes not cost effective solutions.

If what he said were really true, he should just spend $1000 on a USB DAC from Wyred4Sound, get an Emotiva preamp and couple of their cheapo amps and sell the AVR.

In that world, his Pioneer AVR isn't needed at all for AUDIO. So why doesn't he sell it & then he wouldn't even need the latest icontrol app ? Maybe because he can't replace it all with just USB.

Of course they both can co-exist and should for many years to come. There should be ports, DAC's software, and everything included to handle them both.

But someone postulating such a bold generalized & incomplete statement like that gets gets my attention to dispute it with the facts from the other side - negatives, disadvantages, etc

you peacemaker you....trying to keep me from getting unwanted attention I appreciate it!

edited
post #228 of 263
^^^

steve, i couldn't agree more with that... loked at "realistically" vs. "what one might like", it's hard to draw the conclusion that the days of purchasing shiny disks are over...

hey, occasionally i get you out of trouble, usually, it's the other way around...
post #229 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

You're way ahead of me....I'm not home enough to sit for hours and pop in CDs to copy to iTunes or whatever, so we've only got LT 100 CDs digitized. But even if I wind up using iTunes with .AAC format, I prefer to have the shiny disk as my source material first. I like those liner notes LOL... However, if it's an impulse purchase, and/or it's "compressed to hell modern music" - to coin a phrase - Amazon or Itunes is where I go. Maybe it's a cross-generational thing; but there's still a LOT of us for whom digital downloads is an acquired habit rather than our first choice.

On that note, we should leave this thread to Purdyd and people that actually might be in the market for the SC-6x....

i cannot tell a lie, a lot of mine have gotten ripped while i'm sitting on a conference call "working"...

you pretty much described me... i almost always buy the disk, unless i'm just hunting for one specific song of more "modern vinatage"...
post #230 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

You're way ahead of me....I'm not home enough to sit for hours and pop in CDs to copy to iTunes or whatever, so we've only got LT 100 CDs digitized. But even if I wind up using iTunes with .AAC format, I prefer to have the shiny disk as my source material first. I like those liner notes LOL... However, if it's an impulse purchase, and/or it's "compressed to hell modern music" - to coin a phrase - Amazon or Itunes is where I go. Maybe it's a cross-generational thing; but there's still a LOT of us for whom digital downloads is an acquired habit rather than our first choice.

On that note, we should leave this thread to Purdyd and people that actually might be in the market for the SC-6x....

Stuart, I can tell you also appreciate the discs and see both sides.
and the unexpected can happen
post #231 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Stuart, I can tell you also appreciate the discs and see both sides.
and the unexpected can happen

You're in the market for an SC-68? I think you jest....if that's your intention.

But re the shiny vs. digital divide, someone's got to keep a reason to have all those HDMI ports.

Geez, you guys are going to have me hit the 500 post milestone here...
post #232 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Steve - from the perspective of the Dark Side, you do see the irony of this.....

yes, the irony is not lost on me
hey, I'm just a confused man seeking the Truth

D or P? One day, I'm 100% sure on a D, the next - P is still pretty darn good, maybe I should stick with my P.
post #233 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

You're in the market for an SC-68? I think you jest....if that's your intention.

yeah, how do you think we rack up thousands of posts

no, I think purdy should be the one to start the Official SC-68 thread.
I think he'd make a great guru to carry on the legacy
post #234 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

yeah, how do you think we rack up thousands of posts

it could be purdy who starts the Official SC-68 thread, he could be the next guru

FWIW, at least among the 'usual suspects', I'd be hard pressed to find one that would start it up. Unless Joerod gets bored from swapping out Onkyos, anyway

Maybe Purdyd can become the batpig of Pioneer, if he'll take the job LOL...it might prove useful for the younglings that want to put the new Elites through their paces. And at least his interest in Pioneer is sincere, and long-standing.

To keep this vaguely on-topic: on its own, the SC-6x would be intriguing IF I didn't have an Audyssey unit and liked it, and wanted to upgrade from, say, an SC-27 or earlier without Marvel Qdeo, AirPlay, assignable amps etc. But once you take the boy out of the wilderness, so to speak....you can't send him back.....

As for you, from personal experience, if you don't want a free fall into the Audyssey Pro rabbit hole with the rest of us, you won't do horribly with the AS-EQ1 and a new Elite. Personally I'd go for one of the 'mid-range' as a proof of concept. But your Susano's still a hard sell. Although maybe one of those 'powerful amp' types that surface periodically might be interested for all I know...
post #235 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post


You absolutely do not want to connect a single high-capacity disk directly to the receiver, no matter how tempting it is. You need to be able to connect a RAID array which is located some distance away, maybe in a locked cabinet. Individual disks die at the most inconvenient times.

You also are at the mercy of any pet, child, maid or anyone else (including yourself) fumbling around in the area causing a permanent loss of everything on that disk.

There's a risk of loss very time you unplug a disk to connect it to a computer (e.g. so you can delete files or add something from a source the receiver can't directly access). Unplugging a USB disk at the wrong instant has been known to make it completely unusable, so it can't even be reformatted. (That happend to me. Fortunately I hadn't had time to put much on it.)

There are USB switches for connecting an individual device to multiple computers, which would help avoid physical connector damage, but you still need to be able to logically dismount the disk every time you make a disconnection.

And don't forget that you need to keep it backed up "in the cloud" or to some other location that's physically distant, so you won't be at the mercy of a local catastrophe like a lightning strike, fire or flood. Or theft. Or legal action. (Hmmm. Maybe not that last. )

I think I'll be using a computer with an HDMI connection to the AVR. That avoids a lot of problems and supports solutions that an AVR can't.

How many HDMI ports do the high-end Pioneers have?

Seriously, three words, back up drive and you put it somewhere safe, off site
post #236 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


I guess we'll connect everything over encrypted, copy protected, hack-proof USB & ethernet.

I hope you're telling the industry this so they can start making the change away from HDMI. Last time I checked, all the latest gear has them

you keep capping AUDIO - when did VIDEO suddenly go away from all this streaming discussion?

you are the one who said physical media is dead, no one else. I believe that includes video, at least for me it does.

Maybe you should consider the implications of your highly generalized blanket statements.

Since you can't stream video or play video for USB on pioneer receivers and this is a pioneer receiver thread, I thought you were smart enoug to figure out it was audio

Apparently I was wrong about that

But bd is likely the last physical media for video
post #237 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post


and spent months or years of their life doing it

hard drives - seen 2 fail and a RAID that wasn't both striped & redundant in the optimum way, blow up and need to be replaced and data restored from tape backups.

the last time I checked none of my CD's, LP's, DVD's, Blu's, even laserdiscs have failed

keep going, for every argument you can give, I can give you several opposing ones
and I'm a luddite...just think what a geekie hip guy like you can come up with.

you have convenience and maybe portability, on your side, depending on where and how much complexity needed to maintain

I have time spent, knowledge needed, software to learn, tech devices needed, backup needed, multiple types of streaming boxes and multiple subscriptions to pay for, on my side to accomplish the same thing as I can with 1 or 2 players and a cable box

But even with that, all can be managed except time. No one can replace the time it takes to rip 1000 or more AUDIO media formats to a hard drive, even if I wanted to find all the questionably legal software to rip SACD's and DVD-A's. NOR the time for copying the 1000+ DVD's, BD's, and HD-DVD's I have, assuming I had the illegal ripping tools to remove copy and multiple layers of BD protection the studios put in. And the courts just ruled against Kalidescope/Escient type copying for DVD/BD. It's illegal, period! They are not going to be able to sell those products anymore. End of discussion.

I already own the disc, why should I spend hours of my precious weekend time over software & devices just to enjoy what I already have. Makes a lot of sense to me, NOT Maybe someone needs more hobbies to pursue other than tech...

As I said, it took an highly knowledgeable MSCE & CCNA certified network admin over a year just to put to hard drive his CD collection onto a RAID NAS, which he spent over a grand on by the time he was done. Sure sounds fruitful to me

we disagree...again...nothing new

I even have to disagree with you on your reasons for shunning future Pioneer products....it pales in comparison with the thousands who spent thousands more than you ever did to own the SC-09

Well apparently you havent figured out it takes about 10 seconds of your time to rip a disc, put it in, press start walk away repeat

It took me a couple of weeks,

Apparently you have e never heard of backup hard discs and offsite storage, be a real shock when your computer dies

The software exists and it is easy to use, perhaps not for you
post #238 of 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post


Seriously, three words, back up drive and you put it somewhere safe, off site

And you can still plug in a raid array, if that makes you feel better
post #239 of 263
I agree. Backups are easy to automate and have multiple copies available.

I like physical disks but hard drives are so much more convenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

And you can still plug in a raid array, if that makes you feel better
post #240 of 263
Until yesterday, I've been a satisfied Pioneer customer for 30 years. After much angst, I'm now a confused and potentially unsatisfied customer mired in this 2012 receiver discussion.

I just picked up a VSX-1122 to use with a Pioneer Plasma attached to a DirecTV receiver, AppleTV and external speakers in the master bedroom and a second set of speakers in the master bath. I wanted to test this setup and the iControlAV 2012 App before committing to a new SC-65 or SC-67 model for a more robust entertainment system with a 57-inch Panasonic plasma in the den.

After just 24-hours, I have encountered three vexing problems with this receiver/iOS software combination. I hope someone will tell me I'm missing something obvious.

The iControlAV 2012 iPad and iPhone App designs are quite sophisticated -- and for the most part, easy to setup and use. They are intuitive, fun to use and provide a better experience than similar remote software from other hardware manufacturers — as far as they go. However, at first glance, the underlying technological controls do not appear to be as sophisticated as the eye-candy of the beautiful interface.

Specifically, I was flabbergasted to discover that two very basic remote control capabilities appear to be missing entirely from both the iPad and iPhone versions of these Pioneer Apps:

1. You can't use the iOS devices and Apps for the most basic of all TV remote control functions (change channels, switch resolutions, change aspect ratio/zoom functions). Indeed, it appears that these Apps cannot even be programmed by the user to support channel-changing with satellite or cable receivers.

So, is this true? Do I still have to pick up the wand-style remote just to change the satellite channels and/or select a movie or song on an AppleTV? Tell me I'm wrong. Of course, I can switch to Apple's Remote App or the DirecTV App to control these functions, but in the long run, that's not gonna' be very satisfying. Unfortunately, while DirecTV's iPad App allows channel-changing, the DirecTV iPhone App doesn't.

The lack of channel-changing technology in these Pioneer Apps seems to be a brain-dead omission.

2. These Apps do not appear to offer subwoofer equalizer support (though I assume the sub settings still can be edited using the standard wand remote and on-screen guide or MCACC).

3. Furthermore, for the third year in a row, Pioneer has released a new version of this App with no support for last year's models. Even Pioneer's top-of-the-line, 2011 SC-55 and SC-57 receivers instantly were rendered obsolete by this new, 2012 software (before their two-year warranties have expired).

If Pioneer's App updates don't support currently-shipping and warrantied receivers each year, how can a consumer trust that the Apps will work the third, fourth or fifth year when subsequent iOS updates are released? And what happens when a control App stops working after some future iOS update a few years down the road? Does Pioneer really expect customers to switch from buying new receivers every 20 years to buying new receivers every three-to-five years (like computers)? And does Pioneer expect this with such anemic software support?

Pioneer's new receiver/new App explanation makes it seem like the company still is building all the receiver's functionality right into the hardware instead of into the new software. If so, this means that these Apps are just a "skin" overtop of the old button-festooned interfaces. If true, that's very Microsoftian (and completely "bass-ackwards" from the way Apple marries hardware and software).



If I had to, I'd probably pay a recurring fee (maybe $25 or so annually) for firmware and/or software compatibility updates. But I certainly don't want to be left hanging in limbo every year. As an example: while making this VSX-1122 purchase yesterday, I learned that a firmware update has been available for some time that would correct a longstanding problem with my 2009 Elite VSX-23TX. Do you think Pioneer bothered to inform customers of the firmware update? The answer would be no. Worse, from what I have learned, it appears that Pioneer requires customers to uncover "secret" firmware updates on their own and that the firmware updates be installed by authorized service centers — which then charge for what amounts to hardware bug fixes.

I purchased this new, VSX-1122 receiver knowing the iControlAV software had some limitations, but all these aforementioned issues are just dumbfounding and seem like deal breakers. I mean — a TV remote software App that can't change channels? Really?

Hopefully, someone will point out that I'm missing some obvious solution here. Otherwise, I'm thinking about returning the receiver and dropping any idea of buying a new SC-67 or SC-68.

Perhaps someone with more iControlAV experience (or the Pioneer rep) can weigh in here. I'd really hate to dump Pioneer and start over, but if the company does't address omissions like these, some other company (maybe Apple once again) is eventually going to waltz in and take away the receiver market too.
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