Recommendations for a 'musical' sub for $450-650? - Page 2

Originally Posted by Auditor55

"The sub 30Hz realm is very much sound effects territory - explosions, thunder, et al. There is very little content in music below 30Hz so club systems tend to cut off at this point if not a bit higher, whilst live music systems as seen at major festivals / stadiums tend to cut off at 35Hz (which makes the systems a bit more efficient so you need less gear to reach a given SPL than with a system with a 30Hz cut-off)" [Barefaced bass http://barefacedbass.com/technical-i...Huge-lows.htm]

Originally Posted by Rythmik

Your comment like this is boring and counter-intuitive. Can you ask the eletronics designers of Emotiva to explain why their amps has a frequency response of -3db at 5hz and when it comes to subwoofer, 30hz is enough? If they had designed the -3db at 30hz on their amp as well, they can save a few bucks using a smaller DC coupling capacitor.

Originally Posted by Theaetetus

Thanks for all the replies.

It looks like the best bet for my needs is either the X-Ref 12 or the SVS.

I'm intrigued by the Rumba and RSL, but I'd have to hear more about them to consider them seriously.

I've been looking at used subs on Audiogon, but everything is either of low quality or way too expensive.

I'm not in a hurry to make a purchase (I still have to pay for my Sierra-1's!), so any other input would be appreciated while I think things over.

Originally Posted by Auditor55

I think the matter has been settled. It isn't about me anyway, the X-Ref 10 or 12 was a recommendation by me to the OP, who by the way, is in the market for a small musical sub. In my opinion, based what the OP discribed, the X-Ref 10 or 12 fits what he's looking for, its an excellent small musical subwoofer, with clean, tight, punchy bass.

Originally Posted by cel4145

Well, it's not settled in that the only recommendation in this thread for the X-Ref 12 is coming from you. In fact, if the OP will search AVS, he'll find tons of threads where the large majority of recommendations for the X-Ref sub series are coming from you, often in a haranguing style that would discourage any reasonable person from granting you credibility, not to mention your fringe position diatribes on <30hz content. Just because you insist on being the loudest and most zealous person in the room, doesn't make the X-Ref a great choice. If it's as good as you think it is, you wouln't need to argue as much or in the manner that you do.

To the OP: If it were me, I would go with the SVS SB12-NSD, the Rumba that Jim recently evaluated (nice review!), or even the NHT B-12d (not proven, but historically NHT has a pretty good reputation).

However, I would lean heavily toward the SVS because it's well proven. Tons of people here on AVS with experience with it. And one major point in favor of SVS Sound as a company is a long track record of fantastic customer support and service. There is also a very active community of SVS sub owners on this forum who will help out with configuration questions and how to place the sub in your room, and Ed Mullen, owner of SVS Sound, often joins in to help. Definitely a big perk.

Incidentally, there is no X-Ref community here on AVS, unless you count a community of one who chases away all other X-Ref owners. So there's no support here for how best to integrate that particular sub with your system.

Originally Posted by Auditor55

Let me quote the OP: "It looks like the best bet for my needs is either the X-Ref 12 or the SVS"

I think the matter has been settled. As far SVS is concerned, I agree with you about their customer service.

I'm not telling him not purchase a SB12. I just gave my recommendation since the OP said he looking for a small musical sub. I don't have a SB12, I have an X-Ref 12 so naturally I'm going to recommend it because I have first hand expirence with it. That doesn't mean that the SB12 isn't a good sub, I just can't speak from first hand expirence like someone that owns that sub.

As far as integrating the X-Ref 12 into his system, man this sub is pretty much plug n play, its a very easy thing to do. If you owned one you would know that. BTW, ask anyone that owns any of Emotive products about their customer service, from almost all accounts its top rate. If you need any set up help you could call Emotiva and they will help you. They are polite and knowledeable about their products.

People with first hand expirence with the X-Ref 10 or 12 (not the AVS groupies) usually make the following observations about this subs:

"I don't think it would be much use to try to describe the plot of Transformers: Dark of the Moon. The movie lost any sense of believability with the opening shot of Shia LaBeouf waking up next to a beautiful supermodel. But it did earn SECRETS' 2011 Bad Ass Movie Audio award, earned in large part by the carnage inflicted on downtown Chicago. Here, the X-Ref 12 produced taut, clean bass without boominess or bloat. The Emotiva didn't create subterranean rumbling or wall-shaking bass, but you shouldn't expect that from a small, sealed-box design.

What you should expect is crisp, accurate response with music, and that was my experience with the X-Ref 12. Steely Dan's Two Against Nature isn't on my list of top five Steely Dan albums, but the incredible sound quality keeps me coming back to it. Jack of Speed is anchored by that trademark syncopated backbeat familiar to so many Dan songs, with the bass guitar staying deep in the pocket. The Emotiva brought a nice, authoritative snap to the beater on the kick drum, and accurately recreated the bass tones on the track." [Secrets of Home theater and Hi-Fi]

Note the words "accurate" , "crisp" and "clean" in discribing the X-Ref 12. Those comments are consistent with Audioholics observations.

Originally Posted by Sibuna

i own a PB12NSD and an Epik Legend, i prefer the legend for music, which prob has to do with the sound differences between sealed and ported. to me in my room it just feels tighter and chrisper. i use the SVS for the HT and the Legend on the 2.1 system that is mostly music and some games

Originally Posted by whitemdx03

How does the legend do in HT? If you can only keep one, which is it

Originally Posted by cel4145

Well, it's not settled in that the only recommendation in this thread for the X-Ref 12 is coming from you. In fact, if the OP will search AVS, he'll find tons of threads where the large majority of recommendations for the X-Ref sub series are coming from you, often in a haranguing style that would discourage any reasonable person from granting you credibility, not to mention your fringe position diatribes on <30hz content. Just because you insist on being the loudest and most zealous person in the room, doesn't make the X-Ref a great choice. If it's as good as you think it is, you wouln't need to argue as much or in the manner that you do.

To the OP: If it were me, I would go with the SVS SB12-NSD, the Rumba that Jim recently evaluated (nice review!), or even the NHT B-12d (not proven, but historically NHT has a pretty good reputation).

However, I would lean heavily toward the SVS because it's well proven. Tons of people here on AVS with experience with it. And one major point in favor of SVS Sound as a company is a long track record of fantastic customer support and service. There is also a very active community of SVS sub owners on this forum who will help out with configuration questions and how to place the sub in your room, and Ed Mullen, owner of SVS Sound, often joins in to help. Definitely a big perk.


Incidentally, there is no X-Ref community here on AVS, unless you count a community of one who chases away all other X-Ref owners. So there's no support here for how best to integrate that particular sub with your system.

Originally Posted by spyboy

SVS was owned by Tom Vodhanel and Ron Stimpson. Tom left SVS 3 years ago after Ed Mullen was brought in, however, IIRC, Ed Mullen was never an owner. In June 2011, SVS was bought out by Specialties Technologies LLC, spearheaded by Gary Yacoubian. Ron Stimpson stayed on at SVS as did Ed Mullen as Vice President and CEO.

I don't get the idea that Ed Mullen was ever an owner, but I have been known to be wrong once in a while.

A few people around here think they are something special, but Ed Mullen is the read thing. An engineer by trade, Ed did professional quality subwoofer testing years ago. Here is a link to Ed Mullens test of the SVS PB-10 ISD way back in October 2004.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...r-10-2004.html

Even with the modest $429 price of the PB-10 ISD, it measured flat to 19Hz +0/-1 db from

Originally Posted by Auditor55

However with X-Ref 10 sound quality won't be compromised. Very little content in music below 30hz. I think the OP was asking for a musical sub.