Rear Projection home theater Setup

You are going to need to explain and defend the requirement to leave the lights on to this crowd if you want to get any respect.

Don't let Big scare you off Noob (welcome to the fourm).

You won't score a rear projection screen for $3k. Side surrounds are mandatory, rear's are optional if they'll work in your space (7.1 setup).

You need to set realistic constraints for the project. The other half is throwing up unreasonable barriers, perhaps in an attempt to derail the project. A dimensioned floor plan would help too.

I think that you should throw out the rear projection idea and instead go with front projection, an acoustically transparent screen and a false wall. Then all of your front speakers will be hidden.

For the surrounds you could hide the speakers in columns or go with in walls.

Place all the components outside the room with an ir repeater system.

If you REALLY need to have the projector hidden as well then you could look into concealing it within a soffit or hush box, but that raises multiple issues, particularly with ventilation so you don't cook it.

I'd scrap the under couch sub idea as well and go with one (or two) behind the false wall. Then you can get more tacticle feedback at the seats with bass shakers if you think that it is necessary.

And forget about the "keep the lights on" idea. It doesn't have to be pitch black all the time. You could do some rope lighting in crown molding or even some soffit lights dimmed low to provide a little bit of ambient light when it's necessary.

Check out the Bacon Race Theater for an excellent example of a false wall and surround speakers hidden in columns.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1350179

Your throw distance -- the distance from the projector lens to the screen -- will be limited by the depth of the closet. How big an image the projector can produce is affected by throw distance. Have you figured out whether you have enough throw distance to get your desired 80"-90" image? The projector manufacturer's website and/or support line should be able to help you sort this out.

Taking a projector designed for front mounting and putting it behind the screen, instead, means you will be watching a mirror image of the movie or game. Text in title screens and menus will be backwards. I think some video processors can correct this electronically, but I doubt a projector in this price range has that ability. You'll have to decide whether that's a deal-breaker.

Having that big closet behind the screen wall would let you use a "normal" big box subwoofer and still keep it out of sight. Choose a front-firing sub, put it in the closet, and cut an opening in the wall for the sub to fire into the theater. Ideally, you would frame and drywall around the sub to seal the sub cubby-hole off from the closet.

With your limited budget, you might look seriously at used gear. This forum has a classifieds section where members sell used equipment. Then there's Craigslist, Audiogon, Videogon, etc. It's possible to pick up good gear at incredible prices.

I saw that your wish list includes an inexpensive Denon receiver. Denon's lower-end stuff is fine but I don't think it's anything special. At this price point, Onkyo might provide more value.

Ideally, a sub is positioned in the room where it will yield the flattest bass response at the listening location. In contrast, the location for a through-the-wall installation is normally chosen based on where the "dead space" in the adjacent room is located, and where a suitable opening in the wall can be created. I guess it's possible that the location you use for a through-the-wall installation would happen to produce a nice flat response, but it would be something of a coincidence. However, if you're constrained by the requirement that the sub not be visible in the room, then a through-the-wall installation using a full-size sub is likely to be better (closer to ideal) than something using an inexpensive compact sub shoved under the couch, IMHO.

In terms of ported vs. sealed, I don't think one is inherently better than the other for through-the-wall installation. If it's a ported sub, though, the port and the driver would all need to be front-firing.

Costco is currently selling an 80" LCD set that probably costs about the same as what you are planning on spending. It would work better in ambient light and might be a better overall solution than the rear projector.

Just something to consider.

YES, THIS.

For that screen size I'd got with LCD too. Works great in ambient light, installs cleanly, you won't have the horrific geometric distortions that come from short-throw lenses, and it's brighter.

Someone else mentioned before (and they're right) that the price of an RP screen alone is a budget buster. Just wait until one of those kids draws on that screen with a marker! You can't clean a fabric screen, sure, but they're a lot cheaper to replace!

Mitsubishi still makes some huge rear-projection TV's, too. Taking a quick look at Amazon, the biggest I saw was 92". That one might be out of your budget, but something in the 80" range might be worth considering.

If you wanted to get creative, you could even recess the back of the rear-pro TV into the closet (similar to the through-the-wall sub installation we discussed above).

I too would question the use of a PJ from the back.

For the costs you are looking to stay under, you will be hard pressed to justify a rear-PJ setup against the low cost options available with a front-PJ and DIY screen.

If it is a matter of not physically seeing the PJ, there are a number of ways to go about hiding the PJ behind hush boxes.

-Suntan

seriously,
The following will give almost the same performance and leave you $1800 for the rest of the system.
http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-...068188&sr=1-12

Better still, go for 82" for $1650
http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-...6068606&sr=1-1

It is essentially what you are proposing, but already bundled. Simply cut a hole in the wall, position the set and build a frame around it. You will get better performance, as well as avoiding all the issues at a cost that is about the same as that epson plus screen plus mirror.

Designcouch, your comments clarify a lot of things.

Dim lighting in soffits won't hurt the picture much, especially for wii gaming. Just try to keep light from hitting the screen. The rear projection closet will need to be painted black to prevent reflections from the screen from washing out the picture.

Monoprice has inexpensive in-wall speakers. Those might be worth a look.

I'd look at other Harmony models. You should be able to get a decent universal remote for $100 or so.

Look for some cheap yard sale shelving for your gear. Sturdy is better than pretty in your application.

Are the 3d glasses just for gaming or do you intend to try 3d bluray playback? Do you have a bluray player already?

You should probably use a ported sub as they are more efficient. I'd probably pass on the bass shakers. I think the money is better spent on speakers and subs.

I have no experience with the rear projection screen material you selected (or any other, for that matter). It looks pretty fragile though. Perhaps a pane of tempered safety glass directly in front of the rear projection material would be advisable. A shower door shop could do that for you.

Gotta love all the naysayers about RP - IMO rear projection can look fantastic. You can use a First Surface mirror to increase the effective throw length, and it does well with some ambient light in the room.

Dazian will build you a grey 1.6 gain rear-projection screen for $7.95 sqft.

Oh, I agree completely. Rear projection can be absolutely incredible... but not likely for under $3000 (and that's the total room budget). I challenge you to find a one or two bounce rig, projector, and RP material for that budget.

I can't seem to find anything on the screen material you are looking at. I would be very cautious about the screen, and really good RP ones cost a ton of money. Honestly the recommendations for a RPTV seem like the best advice. I had a RPTV for many years and was very satisfied with it.

(And a big thanks to you and your wife for fostering special needs children)

The first surface mirror (if needed - he may not need one) is $50-100 from any glass and mirror store, the dazian RP screen is probably $300-$400, the projector does not need to be specialized (as in, every single projector ever made has a horizontal and vertical flip function, you need it to ceiling mount) so pick whichever one fits the budget.

$3K is tight for any complete system - But RP does not really add any additional cost.

I stand corrected! I tip my hat to you.

I'd suggest you build the space as if you're putting in a rear projection system but start with a flat screen.

Yes, you can DIY a rear projection system with bits and pieces from here and there. Doing that can be a frustrating and time consuming process getting the angles right, mirror size correct, building the projector mount and the adjustable mirror mount and then being statisfied with the picture. You do the flat screen now (move it some other room, like the master bedroom later), you're kids and family can get more instant gratification while you "sell the wife on the upgrade" and get all your homework done on the other "stuff".

Well, many (most) of the commercial RPTV sets have a fresnel lens built in to concentrate light into a smaller viewing area. This is a good and bad thing. The picture tends to be brighter in the sweet spot, but brightness drops off rapidly above the set

Designcouch, I think you have a good feel for the system and needs. I projected against a bare wall for about 4 months while investigating various screens. It isn't all that bad, especially for a once a week movie night. If that is where you are heading, just buy the projector and wait a bit on the screen.

I agree about the Wii though. My kids play XBox on the projector and have a blast, but can't make Kinect work because of blocking images. Rear projection is better for that, but I think the RPTV is better still.

What I have done in the past, which was not RP but did involve one mirror to lengthen the FP throw distance, was simply to mount the projector on the wall pointing upwards, and then a single first surface mirror mounted on a stiff backing board (you don't want it to sag, so depending on the size of your mirror and the angle it is set at this could be 3/4" to 1.5" or more thick) with simple hinges one side and turnbuckles on the other to dial in the angle.

You can easily get up to 6' added throw distance that way (assuming 8'-9' ceilings). Admittedly there is a DIY component here but its not as finicky as you would think, especially if your projector has decent offset controls. The smaller you can make the mirror the easier life will be for you. I had one that was 4'x3' at one point - not ideal

One thing about first surface mirrors - make sure you get one that is coated for protection. The first one I purchased was not and the surface oxidized over time.

How deep is the closet behind the screen? if you have at least 10' then you could probably get a projector with a short enough throw you wouldn't even need to fold the optics.

I have some experience with rear projection not specifically for home theater but my $.02 is that if you have the room and willing to compromise on PQ its a perfect fit for your needs. Your budget is kind of tight but if you go for used equipment and DIY screen is very doable.

A DIY spandex screen would do nicely for your first screen, once again, you would be compromising picture quality, but still very acceptable. With a rear projection projector setup, on a complete dark room (on the projector side), you can actually have the lights on on the room and have a minimal effect on the screen. Go to the DIY screen part of the forum and ask over there.

Very doable in my opinion and perfect for what you want to do.

Lucky man. There are projectors which cannot be mounted that way, so you have to either get lucky or verify just how much off horizontal they can be mounted. This depends on the lamp and cooling method in the projector housing.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Fair point - double check the instruction manual. I do think a lot of those concerns are CYA overblown, but that is strictly personal opinion

Otherwise, I suppose the next best way would be to ceiling mount (or floor mount) the projector in the closet facing away from the final screen surface, with a mirror on the far wall. You would want to make sure the projector has a decent amount of vertical lens shift in this case. (I have not tried this type of installation before though)

Overblown. Ah, perhaps. Voiding a warranty? Absolutely.