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Theta CB III HD in the house (with my ADA Mach IV)! - Page 3

post #61 of 271
5/5/12 at 5:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Ahhh if it were that simple, just about sound quality. It's most definetly NOT. Jeff was rebuffed by Theta for wanting a free processor in exchange for his wife's expertise at marketing. The next day, he started attacking Theta and it has never stopped. The CBII that he used as a basis of comparison for his first years of attack used old Superior I dacs. Every discussion, it seemed I was pointing this out. I realized quickly it was not about the truth. Anyone with experience with the processor knows that the dacs make quite a difference. I think his set-up now with good enough dacs to make an accurate assessement. I would rather Xtreme dacs on all channels but I am not unreasonable. But back to reality. There isn't going to be anything honest about this comparison as far as The bland is involved. IF he gets somenone else present, that is neutral, I would take their comments more seriously.

Thanks Tony. And like myself, Tony and I met personally at CEDIA in Atlanta and spent much time discussing the hobby (remember the dinner with Dennis E, Mark Seaton, and the group!! I was a bit smashed towards the end of the evening .

Now c'mon. I have nothing to personally gain nor lose by what I find! I have enjoyed the Theta ramblings not so much because of the SSP but the owners who narrowly see it as the only high end solution. SSPs are a small wheel in the cog of great home theater sound. The 3rd or 4th most important part of reference movie sound.

In terms of honesty, I'm offended by your insinuating I would lie about any HT related findings. Recall, I could've said I demo'd the CBIII, when I [honestly] said it was a CBII! Wouldn't a better lie have been that I had a CBIII and then continued to falsely denounce it? I tried out a CB II, I commented on a CBII. No lies, no nothing. Remember unlike you and many other Theta guys, I go to shows on a regular basis, host events and spend my free time learning more about HT and putting what I find in my room. I don't wallow in mindless following of one product like some automaton and hold on to it for a decade or more. I'm not emotionally attached to any piece in my room. When that happens, you automatically lose your edge and your system sound gets stale as you ignore advances in new technology. Look at the 3-4 years you Theta guys ignored HDMI and true internally processed lossless sound? Instead of honestly admitting your SSP was kaput, you said it was still SOTA with the 6 shooter using a BD player's DACs?! I couldn't have stayed so long with a piece with such an Achilles heal... and perhaps, this best exemplifies what separates us and our quest for greatness in the home theater?! Moreover, when HDMI finally came to the CBIII, the comments were overwhelmingly positive of the improvement HDMI made to your piece and what you were missing all those years (surprise).

So who's really the honest one here (and when is your last posting of a high end SSP trial in your room)??
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post #62 of 271
5/5/12 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So who's really the honest one here (and when is your last posting of a high end SSP trial in your room)??

I'm not in my room. Last shoot-out I did over was a friends room, few months back, Classe SSP800 vs CBIII non-HD over a weekend. Stayed at his home. A year ago, I spend an entire weekend comparing the SSP800 vs the MX150. High-end processors are just OK for music. I'm an audiophile first. Switched out my Six Shooters for a Gen VIII series3. Shot that out against PS Audio Perfect Wave MKI/ Audibile Illusions 3MA and with the PS Audio internal volume controls. Headed to a big shoot-out of preamps Memorial Day weekend. Shows?? In some hotel room? That's naive to think you can tell stuff there. Two of my friend are dealers with dedicated theaters, the other is 40 a year audiophile.
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post #63 of 271
5/5/12 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

When that happens, you automatically lose your edge and your system sound gets stale as you ignore advances in new technology. Look at the 3-4 years you Theta guys ignored HDMI and true internally processed lossless sound? Instead of honestly admitting your SSP was kaput, you said it was still SOTA with the 6 shooter using a BD player's DACs?! I couldn't have stayed so long with a piece with such an Achilles heal... and perhaps, this best exemplifies what separates us and our quest for greatness in the home theater?! Moreover, when HDMI finally came to the CBIII, the comments were overwhelmingly positive of the improvement HDMI made to your piece and what you were missing all those years (surprise).

We will not compromise low quality DSP like QSC and cheap speakers, dress it up and call it high-end. That's stuff is junk and no matter how many shows you go to,"you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." We waited for true digital correction. You got it from the "horse's mouth," that Trinnov is optimal with a purely digital path. You just ignored that, until you found advice to suit your goal. I still believe the SS/Marantz combo, based upon what I have heard, can handlily take on any surround processor on the market. You are making claims that you actually listen to processors? You've never heard a Six Shooter in your life but you make a ton of assumptions. It's ridiculous.
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post #64 of 271
5/5/12 at 7:09am
[quote=thebland;21987355]In terms of honesty, I'm offended by your insinuating I would lie about any HT related findings. QUOTE]

Oh, I didn't say you lied about your findings. I've even agreed with you that the Superior I dacs are no better than the Lexicon you tried. Where the misrepresntation has come in is that you still used that comparison to say that a Casablanca with Xtremes was no better than what you had tried. That is clearly what you did. Do you really want me to pull that discussion up? All can judge for themselves. At first, I though it was a mistake. Several years later, it is what it is.
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post #65 of 271
5/5/12 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I wasted 4 hours trying to get the JPlay (http://jplay.eu/) plugin for JRiver to work. This is supposed to take things up another notch. Problem is my library is on a NAS and Jplay somehow can't authenticate and get to the files on the NAS. Very frustration. However, since you're into this stuff, I suggest you download the Jplay for Jriver trial version and give it a whirl - you may have better luck than me.

It took some effort to get it working. The setting that were supposed to work, using null output for Jriver 17 did not work. I had to use direct output. Ok, it clearly sounds better. The Jriver player is louder so I had to keep adjusting the volume levels to match. Even had to pull out my meter. The Jplay player is more refined. The Jriver without it sound much more digital. Kind of like the difference you hear when you go form 16/44 to 24/48. I hear more of a balanced presentation. Without the Jplay, I was hearing more bass and treble and some detail was masked. It's not a big of a diference as switching from Itunes to Jriver but it's clearly there.
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post #66 of 271
5/5/12 at 7:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

We will not compromise low quality DSP like QSC and cheap speakers, dress it up and call it high-end. That's stuff is junk and no matter how many shows you go to,"you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." We waited for true digital correction. You got it from the "horse's mouth," that Trinnov is optimal with a purely digital path. You just ignored that, until you found advice to suit your goal. I still believe the SS/Marantz combo, based upon what I have heard, can handlily take on any surround processor on the market. You are making claims that you actually listen to processors? You've never heard a Six Shooter in your life but you make a ton of assumptions. It's ridiculous.

The Extreme Motorola DACs are circa 1999. The QSCs are far newer. Isn't the cost of a DAC about $10?

DACs on the scale of things are about 5% of what you here in a reference HT room.
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post #67 of 271
5/5/12 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

It took some effort to get it working. The setting that were supposed to work, using null output for Jriver 17 did not work. I had to use direct output. Ok, it clearly sounds better. The Jriver player is louder so I had to keep adjusting the volume levels to match. Even had to pull out my meter. The Jplay player is more refined. The Jriver without it sound much more digital. Kind of like the difference you hear when you go form 16/44 to 24/48. I hear more of a balanced presentation. Without the Jplay, I was hearing more bass and treble and some detail was masked. It's not a big of a diference as switching from Itunes to Jriver but it's clearly there.

I'll give it another try later today. If I cannot get it to work with the nas I'll run it with a copy of my library on a USB drive. If it is indeed better sounding I'll have to go back to local storage. Not a big deal.
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post #68 of 271
5/5/12 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Ahhh if it were that simple, just about sound quality. It's most definetly NOT. Jeff was rebuffed by Theta for wanting a free processor in exchange for his wife's expertise at marketing. The next day, he started attacking Theta and it has never stopped. The CBII that he used as a basis of comparison for his first years of attack used old Superior I dacs. Every discussion, it seemed I was pointing this out. I realized quickly it was not about the truth. Anyone with experience with the processor knows that the dacs make quite a difference. I think his set-up now with good enough dacs to make an accurate assessement. I would rather Xtreme dacs on all channels but I am not unreasonable. But back to reality. There isn't going to be anything honest about this comparison as far as The bland is involved. IF he gets somenone else present, that is neutral, I would take their comments more seriously.

I agree! Jeff is well known as the "Anti-Theta Monitor", sort of like the
monitors from the future in the tv show "Fringe", and like the monitors, and the "Anti-Monitor" who destroys the Universe, in DC Comics.
Nothing of any substance or good will come out of this.


Jeff has many many many times said his theater sounds great on movies and not so good on music alone. No way a theater sounds really good when one has to say that!
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post #69 of 271
5/5/12 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks Tony. And like myself, Tony and I met personally at CEDIA in Atlanta and spent much time discussing the hobby (remember the dinner with Dennis E, Mark Seaton, and the group!! I was a bit smashed towards the end of the evening .

Now c'mon. I have nothing to personally gain nor lose by what I find! I have enjoyed the Theta ramblings not so much because of the SSP but the owners who narrowly see it as the only high end solution. SSPs are a small wheel in the cog of great home theater sound. The 3rd or 4th most important part of reference movie sound.

In terms of honesty, I'm offended by your insinuating I would lie about any HT related findings. Recall, I could've said I demo'd the CBIII, when I [honestly] said it was a CBII! Wouldn't a better lie have been that I had a CBIII and then continued to falsely denounce it? I tried out a CB II, I commented on a CBII. No lies, no nothing. Remember unlike you and many other Theta guys, I go to shows on a regular basis, host events and spend my free time learning more about HT and putting what I find in my room. I don't wallow in mindless following of one product like some automaton and hold on to it for a decade or more. I'm not emotionally attached to any piece in my room. When that happens, you automatically lose your edge and your system sound gets stale as you ignore advances in new technology. Look at the 3-4 years you Theta guys ignored HDMI and true internally processed lossless sound? Instead of honestly admitting your SSP was kaput, you said it was still SOTA with the 6 shooter using a BD player's DACs?! I couldn't have stayed so long with a piece with such an Achilles heal... and perhaps, this best exemplifies what separates us and our quest for greatness in the home theater?! Moreover, when HDMI finally came to the CBIII, the comments were overwhelmingly positive of the improvement HDMI made to your piece and what you were missing all those years (surprise).

So who's really the honest one here (and when is your last posting of a high end SSP trial in your room)??

You have even admitted on the forum that you tried to get a free SSP from Theta if they would use your wife's PR services. How low can you get? Apparently, your current BS demo is a new low even for you!
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post #70 of 271
5/5/12 at 8:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I agree! Jeff is well known as the "Anti-Theta Monitor", sort of like the
monitors from the future in the tv show "Fringe", and like the monitors, and the "Anti-Monitor" who destroys the Universe, in DC Comics.
Nothing of any substance or good will come out of this.


Jeff has many many many times said his theater sounds great on movies and not so good on music alone. No way a theater sounds really good when one has to say that!

Steve I can assure you that a Microperf is not an audiophile tool... but mandatory as a videophile.
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post #71 of 271
5/5/12 at 8:16am
let's give Jeff the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe he is going through this hassle just to stage a Theta show trial with the foregone outcome "guilty as charged of underperformance and overpricing".

There is also a standing open invitation to come down to Detroit for independent 3rd party validation. I hear it is a great city. At least Clint Eastwood and eminem seem to think so.
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post #72 of 271
5/5/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

let's give Jeff the benefit of the doubt. I find it hard to believe he is going through this hassle just to stage a Theta show trial with the foregone outcome "guilty as charged of underperformance and overpricing".

Hmmm, you might want to search the archives. I believe moderation limited his attacks on the Theta thread. I was wondering what avenue he would use to launch his attacks next. He clealy states his intentions for staging the trail. Could he have said searching for a new prepro or something? That's not what he's doing. He said what he's doing.
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post #73 of 271
5/5/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

The Extreme Motorola DACs are circa 1999. The QSCs are far newer. Isn't the cost of a DAC about $10?

DACs on the scale of things are about 5% of what you here in a reference HT room.

I know but you are the ones making the claim that because of the age of the dacs, they are obsolete. I'd bet the 30.00 each TI PCM1704 has better specs than what ADA is using. What is ADA using? After all it's the performance numbers and not the ones on the calender that matter. No?
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post #74 of 271
5/5/12 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I know but you are the ones making the claim that because of the age of the dacs, they are obsolete. I'd bet the 30.00 each TI PCM1704 has better specs than what ADA is using. What is ADA using? After all it's the performance numbers and not the ones on the calender that matter. No?

No. It's not the performance numbers, it's the whole home theater experience. I don't know what ADA is using but the dynamics of the piece are awesome! Check out MI 4!
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post #75 of 271
5/5/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

No. It's not the performance numbers, it's the whole home theater experience. I don't know what ADA is using but the dynamics of the piece are awesome! Check out MI 4!

See, that's the "gushing," part that you despise us for. What dacs does the ADA use? You've been claiming that the age of Theta's dacs was an issue for years now. Let's see if yours can even match them for performance. I bet not.
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post #76 of 271
5/5/12 at 11:24am
Thread Starter 
I don't know who Porsche OEMs it's turbo's and suspension from, and they or may be the best, but as a total experience when launching from the start, it can't be beat. When I bought my Turbo S, it wasn't about specs on individual components, it was about performance of the final product. The fact that it beats all Ferraris and Lamborghinis to 60 MPH is due to all parts in total. Not the turbo or cylinder specs. It ain't too shabby on the track either. .

DACs are 5% of the final sonics in a HT system (at best). The fact that some Theta folks fixate so heavily on a $30 part in the context of a $26,000 piece speaks to the mind numbing ignorance of many owners. Your system may have better numbers but mine has the far, far better experience. Guaranteed.
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post #77 of 271
5/5/12 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't know who Porsche OEMs it's turbo's and suspension from, and they or may be the best, but as a total experience when launching from the start, it can't be beat. When I bought my Turbo S, it wasn't about specs on individual components, it was about performance of the final product. The fact that it beats all Ferraris and Lamborghinis to 60 MPH is due to all parts in total. Not the turbo or cylinder specs. It ain't too shabby on the track either. .

DACs are 5% of the final sonics in a HT system (at best). The fact that some Theta folks fixate so heavily on a $30 part in the context of a $26,000 piece speaks to the mind numbing ignorance of many owners. Your system may have better numbers but mine has the far, far better experience. Guaranteed.

You have dogged Theta for years about the dacs. IF all of that had been sincere, you would certainly know what dacs your processor uses??? It's what I have been saying all along, your attacks are not because of sound quality or build quality or anythng to do with the performance of the processor.
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post #78 of 271
5/5/12 at 12:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

You have dogged Theta for years about the dacs. IF all of that had been sincere, you would certainly know what dacs your processor uses??? It's what I have been saying all along, your attacks are not because of sound quality or build quality or anythng to do with the performance of the processor.

I just told you I could care less about the individual components. Just the final performance of the product. So why would I bother to know the manufacturer of the ADA DACs??

I only bring up the Theta Extreme DACs for fun (e.g. That Pioneer used the same chip in their new line of receivers... in 1999).
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post #79 of 271
5/5/12 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I just told you I could care less about the individual components. Just the final performance of the product. So why would I bother to know the manufacturer of the ADA DACs??

I only bring up the Theta Extreme DACs for fun (e.g. That Pioneer used the same chip in their new line of receivers... in 1999).

Your AVS signature alone tells it all!!@@
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post #80 of 271
5/5/12 at 2:12pm
crystal
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post #81 of 271
5/5/12 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by danfrancis View Post

crystal

clear
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post #82 of 271
5/5/12 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

My system sounds awesome. It is great as is even with the QSC DACs.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

I just think you would be better off with a Trinnov demo to evaluate replacing the QSC first, then compare processors after that. Or since you're happy with what you have, stick with that, and wait for a processor with a good integrated room correction system to come out.
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post #83 of 271
5/7/12 at 2:00pm
Thread Starter 
Ordered up a second set of XLR cables for the Theta. Should be here by Wednesday. Trying to get things going ASAP. How quick can I set crossovers and load settings for one source with this piece? Easy and intuitive?
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post #84 of 271
5/7/12 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Ordered up a second set of XLR cables for the Theta. Should be here by Wednesday. Trying to get things going ASAP. How quick can I set crossovers and load settings for one source with this piece? Easy and intuitive?

Setting Xover is a breeze. If you have filter type, xover point and slope on the ADA, you can replicate this in the CBIII HD in 30 minutes flat.
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post #85 of 271
5/7/12 at 2:38pm
Thread Starter 
I am sure the ADA does not give a slope choice. I'll have find out what they use. Perhaps Dan knows. The QSC DSPs are where my fine tuning is.

Yes, I'll match my crossover points. 30 minutes sounds great to me.

Thanks!
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post #86 of 271
5/8/12 at 1:34am
Why match the crossover points? I would not "dumb down," the Casablanca just because the ADA does not have the crossover type options or variable slope options. It's unlikely that the ."one size fits all," limitation of the ADA is what is optimal for your room.
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post #87 of 271
5/8/12 at 3:22am
Thread Starter 
Well, since you're the expert, make some recommendations and I'll implement them. My lcrs cross at 90 and surrounds at 80 as determined by my calibrator. Yes, it's a small thing but I'm trying to do things as well as possible.

The CBIII doesn't have a PEQ so I'll have to dumb it down and defeat it for the CBIII.
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post #88 of 271
5/8/12 at 5:58am
It depends on what you are doing with the QSC. One of your comparisons will be direct and without the QSC. It depends how steep of a slope you need. It also depends on how flat you measure around your current points. It is possible the Casablanca will have the advantage if the QSC is not used.
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post #89 of 271
5/8/12 at 7:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

It depends on what you are doing with the QSC. One of your comparisons will be direct and without the QSC. It depends how steep of a slope you need. It also depends on how flat you measure around your current points. It is possible the Casablanca will have the advantage if the QSC is not used.

Make suggestions. One will be with the QSC. One comparison will simply be mano a mano with no QSC. So, set the Theta up best for so it shines.
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post #90 of 271
5/8/12 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Make suggestions. One will be with the QSC. One comparison will simply be mano a mano with no QSC. So, set the Theta up best for so it shines.

I would not be too hung up on this. If your calibrator determined optimal cross-over points, these should be the same for the CBIII. On the CBIII You could then try a few different slopes and filter types, but the difference will be marginal. I still think you for a fair comparison your best bet is to get a six shooter and use it as an input switch, allowing you to do a double blind test in real time. You would covering up the front displays and ask someone to switch inputs for you.
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