Originally Posted by missingkeys
Doesn't 3d need 120hz at minimum? 60hz for each eye. This is false advertisement for 120hz.
Originally Posted by Arck
Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't 3D require a 120Hz panel? Therefore, the 6200 should have a 120Hz panel?
Active 3D yes, but not for Passive 3D. 60Hz is fine because the image is painted in halves first 540 lines vertical for one eye then 540 lines vertical the other and your eyes/brain stitch them together. (It helps me to think about Progressive vs Interlaced monitors).
Originally Posted by raagamuffin
I am sure many of you may already know this. The LM6200 series TVs do not have a 120Hz panel. It is a 60hz panel with some kind of 'proprietary' algorithm that basically turns the backlight on and off to supposedly simulate the 120hz effect. And you guessed it, the 240Hz Trumotion is really a 120hz panel with similar processing. This applies to the 2012 models only, I believe (2011 models run at the advertised refresh rates).
Of course, my 55LM6200 is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I will take a close look to see if this is worth keeping. In general, I am not bothered by the 'supposed' motion blur (I may just be blind) and I prefer the standard 60hz panel, but this is very much dependent on each individual's sensitivities. DisplayMate, FWIW, did a study regarding motion blur back in '09/'10 (?) and they said 120/240 hz by itself may not offer significant benefits although those panels may be built to higher standards in terms of PQ etc.
See here for more info: http://hdguru.com/lg-55lm6700-hdtv-review-when-120-hz-isnt-120-hz-updated/8281/
ANYONE JUMPING TO PAGE 8 AND NOT READING THROUGH THE THREAD OR EVEN IF YOU DID READ THE THREAD IF YOU MISSED THE POST FROM RAAGAMUFFIN ---> READ THE LINK TO THE HDGURU ANALYSIS. IT'S CLEAR BY ALL THESE QUESTIONS 6 MONTHS LATER THAT PEOPLE HAVEN'T READ THAT YET!! - http://hdguru.com/lg-55lm6700-hdtv-review-when-120-hz-isnt-120-hz-updated/8281/Quick Summary:
-The LG ##LM6700 & below panels are 60HZ - PERIOD!
-LG put Tru-motion 120Hz on the box & on the U.S. Website but it was a LIE!
-WHY DOES the LM6700 (NOW) Have a TRU-MOTION SETTING THEN? READ THE ARTICLE. In response to HDGURU calling them out about falsely claiming 120HZ with LG added a FAUX (FAKE) Tru-motiton setting - that's why it's not on the models below it because HDGURU and other sites didn't call them out on those models specifically!
-What does LG say to this? Instead of 120Hz which the panel can't possibly do (because it has no ME/MC chip which processes the extra frame conversion, they say they have something equivalent to the advertised & claimed Tru-Motion 120HZ, they call it: "backlight scanning" - and while this technique (performed correctly can lesson motion blur - [not like 120Hz however] - but that's besides the point because these LG TVs are NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE of performing it correctly) SEE THE VIDEO in the Link raagamuffin posted.
So no need to ask about TRU-Motion settings or when a Blur setting is coming because it's ALL FAKE!
Originally Posted by raagamuffin
Please call up LG to confirm your 120Hz statement. Unless LG is making conflicting statements, the panel is only a 60Hz panel on the LM series with 120Hz Trumotion. As I posted in a link in my previous post, independent tests have confirmed the same. LG is using marketing hype, since they never claim it to be a 120hz panel, only a 120Hz TruMotion panel.
As for 3D requiring 120Hz, what you say is true for active 3D. Passive 3D images are polarized from the same 'frame', one frame per eye is not needed.
Originally Posted by Brecklington
Huh.... Well that's disappointing. Thanks for sharing the info. I've got to be honest, this TV has been nothing but a challenge since the start. This tactic may be the straw for me. I really like the set, but I doubt I'll be coming back to LG for any electronics in the future. They seem to be either unwilling or uninterested in being forthcoming with facts and solutions to their customers. Pretty disappointed after reading your article and I can completely admit that I was fooled. Thanks Raagamuffin for sharing that. Sorry to have been so sure of the information I believed.... I'm just another fooled and disappointed customer at this point... I had heard of this technique before I bought, however, I was also under the impression the 120Hz label was not allowed to be on the box in this circumstance as it was an effect, not a hardware technology. urgh... Very deflated right about now... Once again. Thanks LG. I knew I should have trusted my gut and not accepted this model when I went to the store looking for the LW5600... Grr.
Dear Brecklinton, with the luxury of the future I was quite P.O. with your first few pages of posts. HOWEVER, when I got to this one I couldn't help but feel your pain! It's a damn shame what LG did in the first place, but the bigger sin was them lying to customers as they did for so long. Customers that had a chance to return a TV but opted for trusting what LG reps had told them. To me I don't think I could handle it appropriately after all this time unless they gave me a sweetheart deal into a higher end model that had the features I was told this one did.
It seemed like you very much were liking your TV up until you found out they had lied to you. It's hard to ever look at the TV the same way again. But maybe if you are happy with the picture quality & 3D you will be able to move on. Just wanted to say I have a great deal of empathy for you in this case, not that it matters to you but thought I would say it anyway.
Originally Posted by tb2496
damn, that's pretty bad if they advertise a feature that isnt really there. maybe the processor (or some other hardware) in these models cant really handle it or something...
The problem is that these models & below DO NOT have the ME/MC processor used to do this. So what they did (besides plaster a feature it didn't & can't possibly have Tru-Motion 120Hz on the side of the box) they tried to come up with a slightly cheaper alternative done in software that shuts off the backlight (after frames) but the problem is that because of the LED array layout of these TVs (fine for most things but lower end) they can't do a complete top to bottom black frame so they do it in parts which negates the benefits a true black frame insertion might have had.
2013 MODELS will be out in a few months ---> Beware of which ones may have false claims. --- ONE additional this is not the only TV company this year that started doing the B.S.
Originally Posted by riyo
Found this on the LG Q&A webpage for the 47LM5800 in response to an owner's question:
"Yes, although the two specifications you have mentioned are not the same thing, they are both always active. The 120Hz aspect of the TV cannot be changed. It is part of the design of the LCD panel itself. The TruMotion feature is also, currently, always active. Controls for this feature will potentially be added in a future firmware update. "
...I too was wondering if these TV's can be flashed with another driver that has TruMotion settings,
Raagamuffin & I answered this above but right there in that post LG is lying to you. "The 120Hz aspect of the TV
..." can't be changed because it's only 60Hz & what they did do the botched black frame insertion is what is enabled at the factory & cannot be turned off!
Originally Posted by tb2496
I guess your model 42LM6200 is excluded from this discussion (just like LM7600). only a certain batch is affected by the lack of trumotion settings. each batch uses different firmware (and I dont mean revision).
That's incorrect. That was what people jumped to a conclusion early on. But it has nothing to do with WHEN the TVs were made. It has to do with the LINE and whether that line contained the necessary hardware to actually turn on & implement the advertised 120HZ. In response to HDGURU calling LG out on their deception & trickery on the 6700 LG put out a firmware update that APPEARED to enable "Tru-Motion" at long last. It did not as the TVs lack the hardware to actually accomplish this.
That shows LG willfully not only knew of the problem but attempted to cover it up and quiet up people that had bought these TVs.
Originally Posted by Navigationroad
I have just purchased the LM5850 and as with other LM series tvs the Trumotion feature is missing. Not only can it not be found in the settings menu but based on the tvs poor motion handling the feature is definitely not turned on. I to am baffled as to why LG would do this. Except for the time it takes to write the code, firmware is cheap. It really makes me wonder if there is another reason why all the models below the LM7600 are missing the full implementation of the Trumotion feature.
Correct me if I'm wrong; the LM6700 still only has the de-judder enabled right? Has the problem got anything to do with the fact that this year's tvs use video processors designed and built by LG. I believe last year's models used outsourced processors. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by 73shark
According to the LG website
, it has Trumotion.
Originally Posted by Smashingblue
So the TV is broken as it does not have the option in the menu or is there a fix beyond just updating the firmware?
The TV isn't so much broken as something was advertised at there & functioning that isn't & can't be fixed with firmware (although LG sure tried to fool people that it could be).
Originally Posted by Devedander
I think it's pretty much been concluded by now that depending on how far down the food chain you are (ie lower end models) you just won't be getting a trumotion option available and it's questionable as to if it's even there or functioning at all... It seems SOMETHING is there in the form of a strobing backlight, but that's not really what most of us think of when we think of trumotion and the motion interpolation settings it should come with.
Apparently they are there on higher end models.
Originally Posted by AdrianO8
I spkoe with a rep from LG via chat today and this is what i got out of it....
"So let me clear the air over LG's Trumotion 120hz and why it doesn't look like other brands such as my friend's Samsung HDTV that has120hz. I had a chat session with an LG support rep and they informed me that the LG panels for 2012 all use a specific Backlight method. I forget what they called it, but pretty much what the TV does is throw a dark frame in between the picture which causes it to not have such a "soap opera" effect. So last year's LG 3D models all use a method where they throw in a regular picture frame that's lit instead of dark in between the picture. I asked the rep what passive 3D TV's didn't have this method and she informed me the panels from 2012 all use this "Dark Frame" method, but that panels from 2011 don't use the "Dark Frame" method. Unfortunately all panels from 2011 are active 3D TV's which is not what I want.
I then asked if she had any news on 2013 panels and if they also indeed have this "Dark Frame" feature and she was unable to give me the information because they were only in the pre-sale status. Now I apologize that I don't remember the specific name for this "Dark Frame" method but the rep was very quick to answer my question and if they weren't closed right now I would just pop in a chat session to ask again.
I hope this helps everyone and besides the 120hz feature I absolutely love my LG TV. I got it at a fantastic price of $601 at Fry's which is a steal especially since I received free shipping."
I think it's complete BS and I am also thinking about returning my TV. Although I love the screen other than that I feel cheated and I really like 120hz because motion blur is quite irritating.
I corrected you about this on the last thread you posted this on. It's a white wash cover up of lies. Negativity not directed @ U, but LG! I hope the old adage' is true in this case that it's not the lie, that it is their poor attempts to lie & cover up their lies that is the real problem. They could have handled this about 20 better ways. UN-
-The 2011 LCD LED panels were Passive not active 3D just like this years. The only panels that were active were the Plasmas.
-Reason it Looks different (not like Tru-motion 120Hz) is because it's attempting to add a black frame, improperly done, to the 60Hz panel after images but this can in no way create 120Hz or function or look the way properly done 120Hz can handle frame rates. This forces the 3:2 pulldown & interpolated judder problems that all 60Hz panels experience.
Originally Posted by 4evrKnight
Are their any 55lm4600 that have trumotion installed on them?
What lg led tv's have true 120hz ?
In 3D TVs You'd be safe getting a 7600. Not sure about the 7### below that would make sense they are grouped in tiers.
If you don't want 3D then there are models with much lower numbers there is at least one posted in this thread.
IF you or anyone else comes across a nice list of 2012-2013 models that do actually have True --> Tru-Motion 120Hz that would be really helpful to link or copy (giving credit) to who ever made it. Seeing as the 2012 TV season will soon be coming to a close that would be really helpful in ferreting out the true deals.Edited by DA1745 - 1/29/13 at 1:24am