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My new project: QDEO vs HQV Vida vs Reon 1080p upscaling - Page 2

post #31 of 47
5/22/12 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
So, we played some DVD test material on my friend's Oppo 83.

The Onkyo 609 did at least as well as the Oppo 83, if not better. It was very hard to tell.

The Oppo 83 does not stand up to the Onkyo 809. So, I am definitely a happy customer.

I cannot wait to test against the Oppo 95.
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post #32 of 47
5/22/12 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nakoruru View Post

The 609 also performs admirably, though I do notice slightly more blockiness on diagonal lines, particularly on subtitles, such as the letters "y", "o", and italicized "l") than on the 809.

Based upon my experience with the Oppo BDP-93 (Qdeo), Oppo BDP-83 (ABT2010), DVDO Edge (ABT2010), and Yamaha A2010 receiver (HQV Vida 1900) I would attribute the "blockiness" directly to the de-interlacing performance of the Qdeo in the 609. The Qdeo (IMHO) does a fine job of scaling, but it can only scale what it computes after it de-interlaces and the other solutions simply do a better job of de-interlacing.

I suspect that this is the very reason that the 809 uses both HQV and Qdeo; the HQV does an awesome job with everything up to 1080p and after that the Qdeo fills a questionable marketing "check box" for "4K."

Proper de-interlacing is the key first step that must be performed prior to scaling and it's a classic garbage-in, garbage-out situation...although I would't consider the Qdeo garbage since it still performs admirably on real world content as you discovered.
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post #33 of 47
5/23/12 at 3:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

Based upon my experience with the Oppo BDP-93 (Qdeo), Oppo BDP-83 (ABT2010), DVDO Edge (ABT2010), and Yamaha A2010 receiver (HQV Vida 1900) I would attribute the "blockiness" directly to the de-interlacing performance of the Qdeo in the 609. The Qdeo (IMHO) does a fine job of scaling, but it can only scale what it computes after it de-interlaces and the other solutions simply do a better job of de-interlacing.

I suspect that this is the very reason that the 809 uses both HQV and Qdeo; the HQV does an awesome job with everything up to 1080p and after that the Qdeo fills a questionable marketing "check box" for "4K."

Proper de-interlacing is the key first step that must be performed prior to scaling and it's a classic garbage-in, garbage-out situation...although I would't consider the Qdeo garbage since it still performs admirably on real world content as you discovered.


My thoughts exactly. I love the 809's Vida1900 for deinterlacing. Is it worth 2x the money of the 609's QDEO alone? Probably not. But I also appreciate the 809's extra HDMI inputs, the presence of S-video inputs, and a 2nd HDMI output, so I feel I get my money's worth.


I bought both for comparison study, originally with the intent of returning one to BestBuy before my 45 day return policy period expires....but in the end, decided to keep both.. with the 809 in my theater room and the 609 in my bedroom.

My only regret is that it looks like the 2012 line (model 818 for example) has completely eliminated S-video inputs, with little sign of bringing anything new to the table.
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post #34 of 47
5/23/12 at 4:01pm
Interesting project, thx for posting all of this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nakoruru View Post

My only regret is that it looks like the 2012 line (model 818 for example) has completely eliminated S-video inputs, with little sign of bringing anything new to the table.

The 818 has Audyssey XT32, whereas the 809 has XT, most would say there's a big difference between the two. But it looks like the 818's XT32 version is without SubEQ HT, which was previously included in all AVR's with XT32 (which cost much more than the 818..)

Like I said previously I'm very satisfied with my 809 - no complaints in regards to both video and sound performance
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post #35 of 47
5/30/12 at 9:14am
If you ask me, with anime (I am a huge anime fan myself and have several hundred anime DVDs), you need a good player with a good deinterlacer built in. If you're using an external component to deinterlace then your deinterlacing is going to affect the subtitles. The subtitles will sometimes get interlaced in order to deinterlace/IVTC the image behind them. And when that's not happening, the subtitles will definitely throw off the deinterlacer a bit when it tries to calculate whether the frame is interlaced or not. If the player itself has the deinterlacer then it will deinterlace before adding subtitles, avoiding that problem. I used to use the 970 and a VP50/Edge (sold the VP50 and bought the Edge because the VP50 didn't have 240p support and the Edge does) for anime as well and that problem I mentioned happened a LOT.

Personally, I use a DVDO Edge for most of my deinterlacing and upscaling. For anime DVDs, I use my PS3 as it is a pretty good deinterlacer. For other DVDs, I use my Oppo 970 and have my Edge do the processing. The Edge is not the best but it's probably not getting replaced anytime soon (and I need its 240p support for my old video game systems anyway). It's okay.
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post #36 of 47
5/30/12 at 10:38am
Hi nakoruru,

Can you please compare Wii image quality at 480p using component cables, upscaled to 1080p ?

Thanks.
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post #37 of 47
5/30/12 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylogan View Post

Can you please compare Wii image quality at 480p using component cables, upscaled to 1080p ?

IMHO, if you are interested in video processing options for your game system you can't beat this site helpfully provided by our fellow AVS Forum member, Fudoh.

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post #38 of 47
5/30/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylogan View Post

Hi nakoruru,

Can you please compare Wii image quality at 480p using component cables, upscaled to 1080p ?

Thanks.

That's only scaling... For scaling alone, Lumagen > HQV (in the HQV range, it goes Vida > Realta > Reon) > ABT. Not sure where the various VXP models fit in there, or other brands...

Fudoh's site (as linked) is very helpful. He tests a lot of equipment, more than I can afford! I got rid of my DVDO VP50 and bought an Edge based largely on information provided by him.

Edit to note: You said at 480p so I answered in that spirit but do keep in mind that not everything on the Wii outputs 480p. Specifically talking about virtual console, but there may be other things that also do not support 480p on the Wii.
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post #39 of 47
5/30/12 at 1:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckylogan View Post

Hi nakoruru,

Can you please compare Wii image quality at 480p using component cables, upscaled to 1080p ?

Thanks.

I am sorry. I do not own a Wii. I don't think any of my close friends have Wiis either.
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post #40 of 47
5/30/12 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

If you ask me, with anime (I am a huge anime fan myself and have several hundred anime DVDs), you need a good player with a good deinterlacer built in. If you're using an external component to deinterlace then your deinterlacing is going to affect the subtitles. The subtitles will sometimes get interlaced in order to deinterlace/IVTC the image behind them. And when that's not happening, the subtitles will definitely throw off the deinterlacer a bit when it tries to calculate whether the frame is interlaced or not. If the player itself has the deinterlacer then it will deinterlace before adding subtitles, avoiding that problem. I used to use the 970 and a VP50/Edge (sold the VP50 and bought the Edge because the VP50 didn't have 240p support and the Edge does) for anime as well and that problem I mentioned happened a LOT.

Personally, I use a DVDO Edge for most of my deinterlacing and upscaling. For anime DVDs, I use my PS3 as it is a pretty good deinterlacer. For other DVDs, I use my Oppo 970 and have my Edge do the processing. The Edge is not the best but it's probably not getting replaced anytime soon (and I need its 240p support for my old video game systems anyway). It's okay.


I am glad you brought that up.

I also pondered the effect of subtitles layered over standard definition anime DVD content... hence the effort to compare video quality of subtitles and anime content between AVR video-processing of 480i over HDMI setups and the Oppo 83 player directly connected to the TV.

I paid a lot of attention towards the appearance of subtitles, the crispness of diagonal lines in anime content (often seen in mobile suits) and anime character facial and hair features.

Overall, I am impressed with the Onkyo's QDEO Kyoto G2H, and very impressed with the HQV Vida1900.

It really does feel like I am getting an audio receiver, an HDMI (and other video input) switch, and an excellent deinterlacer and scaler in a single, price-affordble package.

At some point, I would be interested in testing Anchor Bay's 1015 VRS chip found in some Pioneer AVRs, and see how it compares to Anchor Bay's 2010 VRS chip found in the Oppo 83.
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post #41 of 47
5/30/12 at 1:57pm
My DVDO Edge has an ABT2010 as well. Personally, I think it's quite mediocre. The scaling is mediocre, especially for 240p stuff that I have (I have old game systems e.g. Sega Genesis, SNES, N64, etc.) - a lot of ringing for 240p, and still noticeable for 480p IMO.

It is very weak for noise reduction. Has almost nothing in that area. VXP, HQV and QDEO all have significantly better noise reduction than the ABT.

I'm not really disappointed in its deinterlacing - I rarely see artifacts. But game mode (which I need for some games) can product an unstable, annoying picture.
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post #42 of 47
5/30/12 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

IMHO, if you are interested in video processing options for your game system you can't beat this site helpfully provided by our fellow AVS Forum member, Fudoh.


Thanks! Looked through it, expensive or unavailable. What does a man have to do to just have Wii games look good on his HDTV? Sigh.
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post #43 of 47
6/28/12 at 5:31am
Interesting thread, wondering if anyone (OP?) has any opinions on the 709 I think it's little different from the 809 yet has more than the 609? Where would it 'scale' per-say.. I sold my DVDO Edge after getting my 709 don't regret it at all.
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post #44 of 47
6/28/12 at 5:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmu77 View Post

Interesting thread, wondering if anyone (OP?) has any opinions on the 709 I think it's little different from the 809 yet has more than the 609? Where would it 'scale' per-say.. I sold my DVDO Edge after getting my 709 don't regret it at all.


The 709 is basically the 609 with more watts per channel, and I think it has 2 HDMI outputs rather 1 output.
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post #45 of 47
7/1/12 at 9:40am
Great post. Thanks for sharing. I'm comparing between the new onkyo 616, 717, and denon 2312. I'm leaning towards the onkyo but need help deciding which one.
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post #46 of 47
7/3/12 at 2:11pm
Any thoughts....
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post #47 of 47
7/4/12 at 8:02am
I'm an onkyo guy - so if you check their site the main benefit of 717 over 616 is if you have 4 ohm speakers. Otherwise, I'd pass on the 717 and get the 616.

If you can spend the extra cash, get the 818 as it has Audyssey XT32 and is the lowest priced receiver currently to have that level of room correction capability.

If you are comparing to denon 2312, make sure you include 2313 as they just came out.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/90
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