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Mitsubishi DLP calibration results / graphs - How did I do?

post #1 of 9
5/5/12 at 11:18am
Thread Starter 
I have a Mitsubishi WD-73c11 (same as wd-73640). It has a CMS that adjust the RGB levels for all 3 primaries and all 3 secondaries. Greyscale, gamma, luminance curve, and color temp are pretty much dead on. I'm using HCFR and eyeone LT (i1 display 2). I know its not the best meter so I take the results with a grain of salt.

My concern is xyY and delta E for my colors. After a lot of reading and several calibraitons I decided to calibrate at 75% saturation. So my 0 - 75% saturations are very accurate at the expense of inaccuracies at 100%.

Basically my concern is that my Y value % at all saturations is high in relationship to my 100% white Y value. And my blue delta E is pretty high. The only way to get Y value % in line without totally screwing up my xy coordinates is to drastically reduce the display's color control from 37 down to 17 and then subjectively the display looks very undersaturated and almost black and white. If in the CMS, I keep the RGB levels the same relative to one, another but just move them all up or down by the same amount it has minimal affect on Y value but will affect my saturation-luminance graph. So I've basically just found the best relationship of RGB for each color to get xy on point and then I adjust them all up or down by the same amounts to get the saturation-luminance graph as close as possible. This done with 100% stimulus / 75% saturation color windows from AVS 709.

I should probably compare my 75% white to my 75% stimulus / 100% saturation colors to see if they're not as bad as 100% white vs. 100% stimulus / 100% saturation colors. Or maybe my crappy meter just doesn't measure Y value accurately.

Am I missing something something? Can any of the experts offer some additional tweaks or am I getting the best I can with my available controls. HCFR file and graphs attached.
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2DCalibrationFinal.zip 4.66015625k . file
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post #2 of 9
5/5/12 at 11:24am
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More Graphs
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post #3 of 9
5/5/12 at 11:28am
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Even More Graphs
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post #4 of 9
5/5/12 at 12:15pm
Considering the accuracy, or very probably lack there of, in that meter for measuring color.. what exactly have you done?
Have you fixed it or made it worse? Making major adjustments in the CMS can lead to other more noticeable problems like color banding in gradients.

About all you can do is watch the display for a couple of weeks/days, document your cms and color/tint settings, and reset CMS color and tint back to zero/centered I.E. default and watch for a couple more weeks.
Let your eyes tell you which is best, because the charts really can't, do to all of the Salt.

As you saw, you got different results at different saturation points.. There are millions of possible combinations of saturation and luminance, adjusting at one spot does not mean it will be anymore correct at all the others, especially when using a meter with questionable accuracy.

I am no expert, but have been playing with this stuff long enough to know that even with accurate meters a lot of the controls, even on high end stuff, don't work well or cause more harm than good..
Good luck!
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post #5 of 9
5/5/12 at 12:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Considering the accuracy, or very probably lack there of, in that meter for measuring color.. what exactly have you done?
Have you fixed it or made it worse? Making major adjustments in the CMS can lead to other more noticeable problems like color banding in gradients.

About all you can do is watch the display for a couple of weeks/days, document your cms and color/tint settings, and reset CMS color and tint back to zero/centered I.E. default and watch for a couple more weeks.
Let your eyes tell you which is best, because the charts really can't, do to all of the Salt.

As you saw, you got different results at different saturation points.. There are millions of possible combinations of saturation and luminance, adjusting at one spot does not mean it will be anymore correct at all the others, especially when using a meter with questionable accuracy.

I am no expert, but have been playing with this stuff long enough to know that even with accurate meters a lot of the controls, even on high end stuff, don't work well or cause more harm than good..
Good luck!

Thanks for the insight. Subjectively it looks better with my tweaks than at defualt. There are 2 memories to store these "advanced settings" so I've left one stock and the other with my settings and can quickly switch back and forth with one button on the remote. The difference is apparent to me and other people who have watched my TV.

The meter definitely works. If push red green or blue way high to the point that its visibly noticeable to the naked eye the meter also registers a higher level of that color. The meter is only 3 months old. And even if I push a setting by 1 point on the tv the meter registers these small changes.

So assuming my readings are reasonably accurate can someone please analyze the data and let me know if there are additional tweaks I can employ?
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post #6 of 9
5/5/12 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post


The meter definitely works.

That really was not my point..
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post #7 of 9
5/5/12 at 4:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

That really was not my point..

OK. I agree there is a difference between the meter working and working accurately. And I'm sure my meter is not as accurate for color management as a better unit would be.

I have thought about renting a better meter and creating a correction file in HCFR to get it more accurate. Like anything else it all comes down to cost / benefit and I picked up my TV for $790 on black Friday and am not trying to spend as much as I did on the TV, on a higher end meter and more robust software.

In any event at the end of the day I just want to know if any of my measuring techniques are flawed. I'm by no means a pro and may not be understanding the finer points correctly. I'm a little confused as far as how luminance, color brightness and Y values interact and/or if they are one in the same. I'm also trying to figure out if my Y value % are off by an appreciable amount to the point where they are noticeably affecting image quality. And I do realize that all my questions would have to come after the presumption that my meter is taking reasonably accurate measures.
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post #8 of 9
5/5/12 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post

OK. I agree there is a difference between the meter working and working accurately. And I'm sure my meter is not as accurate for color management as a better unit would be.

I have thought about renting a better meter and creating a correction file in HCFR to get it more accurate. Like anything else it all comes down to cost / benefit and I picked up my TV for $790 on black Friday and am not trying to spend as much as I did on the TV, on a higher end meter and more robust software.

In any event at the end of the day I just want to know if any of my measuring techniques are flawed. I'm by no means a pro and may not be understanding the finer points correctly. I'm a little confused as far as how luminance, color brightness and Y values interact and/or if they are one in the same. I'm also trying to figure out if my Y value % are off by an appreciable amount to the point where they are noticeably affecting image quality. And I do realize that all my questions would have to come after the presumption that my meter is taking reasonably accurate measures.

I,m Sorry, I am not trying to negate the learning, just point out that moving primary locations with unknown accuracy is not really all that helpful and could cause more harm than good. Nuff said on that.
I not familiar with that software, but Luminance is the Y in Calman.
If you CSM does not have 3 controls for each color Hue,Saturation and Luminance there really isn't any way to fix that. Oh, that one has the RBG for each primary.. I have not played with that type of CMS to much so not really sure if reducing all 3 the same will help, but I think that will just desaturated the color.
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post #9 of 9
5/6/12 at 2:42pm
The CMS does work well enough on these late sets and is sufficient to do a pretty darned good calibration. I have the 92" model and do autocalibrations with ChromaPure and a DUO. To tighten up the DUO's autocalibration a bit I usually just bring down the color dEs by adjusting the luminance on Primaries and Secondaries using the displays controls. I always do a basic grayscale first with the displays internal controls before I autocalibrate with the ChromaPure DUO Combo. As I told mfiish in the Rear Projection Forum his meter is a total unknown. Even the D3 Pro on my Mits was not very good until Tom created a specific table for rear projection DLP.

So the meter is crucial and if it is a colorimeter it needs to be either trained with a spectro or have a specific table for the display type.

The whole question of calibrating at 75% saturation is kind of an advanced concept considering the huge question mark of measuring with an LT or D2 without a spectro to profile them on the display.

I use the 75% stimulus, 100 percent saturation patterns on the DUO and it works fine. You do need to make sure you are not clipping color under 100 percent stimulus by adjusting max white appropriate. I use Spear and Munsil and the AVS clipping patterns to assure headroom.

The 92" display needs to have a decent amount of contrast dialed in to make adequate amounts of light for daytime viewing. The 73" unit being asked about here has the same lamp and pretty much the same optic engine so you can easily get plenty of brightness while using a modest constrast number which tends to keep the set linear.
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