Speakers ~$10K for rock, alternative and some pop. Not Jazz or Classical. - Page 8

"Hypothetical" benefits, yet they were quite measurable and audible for my own system. No problem.

BTW, still failed to answer a few questions, like where you source your Kef drivers from? And what passive xover do you use for the UniQ driver? Your own of Kef's? If Kef's from which model speaker?

Also VERY CURIOUS why your using a "parts xpress" Bash amp and running your 8" driver active? Why not keep it a passive design and make your own passive xover for it? Why the hybrid? And a sealed hybrid at that.

Yes, that is your claim.


KEF, my own, Q100.


Class D, weight, EQ, price and availability. Hoffmans Iron Law. In real room vs hypothetical response.

None of which applied to the OP, who should go out and listen to speakers with his own music...and decide for himself what to buy. That or base decisions on hypotheses.

cheers,

AJ

I wasn't speaking of you, but rather to you. Ntrain's recommendations have not been within the OP's requirements, plain and simple. You saying his comments are reasonable is why I quoted you, because they do not have merit for this OP in this thread.

So your speaking for the OP now huh? If he has issues with anything he reads he has shown to be able to speak for himself(And he has given no indications of having any issues with opinions, ideas etc posted on his thread). If anything yourself and a few select(same ones) others have posted on this thread soley to question and discredit any opinions and experiences I have because they do not jive with what you read. Time to let others think for themselves.

He did think for himself, ntrain. Go back and read where he states he's not interested in DIY or bookshelf speakers, which are all things you recommended. The OP has already spoken, which you've clearly overlooked.

if i had 10 grand to invest i would look into a pair of reference 3a grand veena's heres a manufacture that does not use cross overs in their designs.i have a pair of the mm de capo i 's and would not trade them for anythingin their price range they are that good and again this is just my opinion

Reading this thread is amuzing. First if I spending $10k I'm only buying what sounds the best to me. For rock music and such, I would want a bit of bite, but not so much its bright. Dynaudio sapphires on the demo/used market come to mind. I'm not saying those are what you should buy, but you could consider them; and other speakers like them. You should audition everything you can. Make up your own mind.

Great recommendation. They definitely "rock" with rock music, and they do have that "bite" you mentioned, though it isn't overbearing or anything. I quite liked them for rock music at RMAF.

Actually if you go back over posts after he stated that he wants to stick with towers, I let it be at that. In fact alot of the other posts were directed towards other members on other various topics brought up by other members own questions and thoughts. Again the OP hasn't stated he has had any problems with any of the side posts going on from other members including myself. Again, your trying to speak for the OP, let him do it himself. He seems to be fine with the discussion regardless. In fact rereading the post if you look closely 5 other members were asking questions or posting comments on their own off topic, yet you seemed to lay dormant which shows your obvious issues with me and to top it off this is at least the 4th or 5th post in this thread where you have shown to obviously have a beef with me(and at least one other forum member)directly and nothing to do with AV whatsoever, time to give it a rest. Otherwise why don't you PM me and tell me what your real issue is.

CAF is 400 miles closer and 3 months earlier!! (shameless self promotion, I'll be there....handing out free beer like candy).


Shame on you for thinking you might know what you want better than someone else.....

cheers,

AJ

Hey AJ, given the OP's stated preferences so far and if you were hired to do a $10K speaker setup:

1. What else would you ask the OP in regards to needs assessment?
2. Where would you set your profit margin?
3. What would you look at putting together for them from both a design and materials perspective?

As fun as RMAF is, it's almost completely worthless for guidance on this kind of thing. All the systems that sound good are in the six figure range and the rooms suck. I would not go to RMAF to shop, but I would go to listen to Opiate on a one hundred thousand dollar stereo.

I'd tell him to give me $5k and keep the rest for himself, since that amount simply isn't required to fulfil his acoustic parameters. I have a real job that pays the bills.


You know the routine, smooth/uniform global response, room is friend not enemy, prodigious bass capability for size, low dynamic compression, etc, etc.

cheers,

AJ

Me likey the sound of that, AJ. Do you have a "full range" tower speaker?

So there is no need for a Revel Salon 2 or Status 8T's?

Buy a sub 3K speaker and spend the remaining to build a dedicated treated listening room. Sure beats any Revel in a normal room. Most DIY guys are poor folks who can't afford the room but with lots of time so they compensate. Most audiophiles spend so much $ on "good" sounding equipments but don't know any better since they don't have much time. Regardless ignorance is bliss but unforgivable.

We need somebody who can afford anything but who is a cheap bastard with a passion to the hobby that prompts him to research daily on the shops and the net. We need someone who isn't too cheap or too lazy to order and audition ID speakers and post unbiased reviews! We need a hero! (not the Kimber kind)

I think it's safe to make the assumption that all other things being equal...

The problem with RMAF is that it's often a madhouse, very large, near impossible to see everything (much less all the ones you thought you might want to see) and rooms tend to get crowded. Not great for the consumer who wants to get a good feel for the item. The elevators breaking down last year didn't help with a multi-story building where the stairs are a PITA also.
CAF otoh, was big enough where there is plenty to see in 2 days and you can actually sit, listen and ask questions. Much better for the attendee imho.


Yep. Come to CAF and see.


The market decides that, I don't.

cheers,

AJ

Based on what psycho-acoustic science? Let's see the factual evidence to back up that claim. Thanks.

Yes, but one with nice veneer...

Unbiased reviews? There is no such thing my good man. The only way that'd be possible is if someone had Harman's speaker shuffling/level matching system and listened blind without any other human contact during the sessions. He'd then be told which speakers he liked best at the end of the auditioning sessions. With that said, where's the fun in that? Also, if you were that guy you'd have to trust in the person giving you information regarding which speaker you actually heard, as you wouldn't have an actual way of knowing besides what you were told. Bias will always be part of reviews unfortunately. The good news is only you need to be satisfied with your purchase, so only you should be deciding what sounds good and what doesn't. Purchasing based on someone else's opinion is a very bad idea unless you're sure you can return said product for a full refund in the event you do not care for it.

For what it's worth, according to Floyd Toole's research a really good speaker should still be able to give you a good impression of its sound characteristics above the Schroeder Frequency in most rooms. The real problems within a room are below 200-300Hz, and those can be fixed. You can't easily fix a lousy speaker, though (active crossovers don't count for obvious reasons, though that's not to discount their advantages).

Just get a list of speakers that have great measurements on-axis & off-axis. Factor in aesthetics, price, fit. Eliminate the ones with bad measurements - like the ones that don't even measure as well as the Infinity P362. Then audition the great ones. You will find that although they won't sound identical, the great accurate speakers will all sound great and you can't lose with any of them.

That is a very solid list, jima4a. The Salk's, Revel's and Kef's would be my top three, with Dynaudio and Thiel CS3.7 rounding out the top five. The top three choices will sound more similar than not; I cannot see anyone being unhappy with any of them, but YMMV and to each their own.

Ain't fun but you only had to do it once. It's part of the research prior to buying. I can sure trust my wife as she has zero interest in decorating the room or the price tag of my toys. Or I can tell my staff to do it for me. Not an issue, not sure about you guys.

It's not a claim, it's a fact. Check out my living room and imagine your Revel in it. Now imagine an accurate pair of tower under 3K in a dedicated room built for listening. But you're free to believe that spending on the most expensive speaker out there and putting them in your untreated living room is the ultimate setup.

I'm pretty confident you don't have all the resources necessary to properly perform or partake in a double blind (or even single blind), level matched bias-free listening comparison, even with your staff's help. Unless, of course, there's some things you haven't told us (like you're really Dr. Sean Olive).


It's time read read Floyd Toole's white papers and books my friend. With that said, of course a dedicated, built from the ground up listening room would be ideal, but what percentage of us can actually accommodate that, really?

So you really can't "fix" a bad speaker? Again, can you give us some examples(make/model) of some "bad" speakers?

And you state you can't fix a bad speaker, but the frequencies BELOW 2-300hz can be fixed?

So to sum it up, what your saying is you can't "fix" a bad speaker, but you can "fix" frequencies below 2-300hz, which must also mean that the frequencies above 2-300hz cannot be fixed? LOL!

And speaking of FLoyd Toole, alot of his "research" completely contrasts the finding of other well known individuals on sound reproduction and the effects of the speaker/room relation with people like Bob Carver, Kevin Voeks, John Dunlavy etc..........he has alot of good and useful info, but I notice you lovetossing his name into your posts like he is Jesus of the AV world, LOL! Books only get you so far man.