Quote:
Originally Posted by
ntrain96 
Easy to punch a hole in this, and I'll explain one thing thats never measured. Linear response in terms of power. Its ALWAYS OMITTED.
Notice how the measurements are always taken at 1/2 watts? Why not take the measurements again at 10/20 watts? And again at 100/200 watts?Or how about a 1/10th of a watt as well? Linear power response across the frequency spektrum which IMO is a very important(most important) set of measurements never taken will show more than what is always presented. I have found that the response curve at varying output levels can show inconsistencies in how a speaker performs DYNAMICALLY on and off axis. People seem to forget that program material is dynamic and not linear. Do all the drivers and their filter boards have the same linear response at all power levels? Do they all reach thermal compression, have the same THD and resonation patterns at the same time on the dynamic peaks? Highly unlikely. All the measurements taken are in the "horizontal" plane literally, but the "vertical" plane is just as important and often overlooked. Id love to see mfg's and paid advertisements show some of their measurements at differing power levels, the findings would shed new light on "performance" and how "good" or "bad" a speaker truely is. One reason why I take alot of the measurements with a big grain of salt.
People say that the limited measurements given in these "tests and measurements" will give a good understanding of how a speaker will perform and will mean speakers will sound nearly identical with the same highly limited and listed measurements, not the case at all.
How exactly that does punch a hole in the fact that the Kef 201/2 is a great measuring speaker? We're not trying to debate the current state of the art of speaker measurement; we're specifically talking about the existing measurements of an existing speaker. Please try to focus and stay on topic.
Also, Soundstage! and Stereophile both measure in the vertical and horizontal plane, though sometimes not for every speaker, so you're wrong about that. We all know that magazines and 3rd parties don't publish enough measurement data about loudspeakers, but again, this isn't a debate about measurement methods; it's about the Kef 201/2 and your claim that some people don't think it measures well. Show us the proof, ntrain - we're waiting.
Regarding your statement below, can you prove that? I'm not saying I think measurements will give you an idea of how a speaker will perform (even though we all know where I stand on that subject); I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. Prove it. How does Frequency Response (on and off-axis, including horizontal and vertical), spectral decay, sound power, step response, distortion, phase, etc not tell us something about the expected sound quality from a loudspeaker? Also, I don't think anyone is claiming that two speakers that measure identical will sound identical, unless it's the same speaker, of course. If someone did insinuate that then I missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ntrain96
People say that the limited measurements given in these "tests and measurements" will give a good understanding of how a speaker will perform and will mean speakers will sound nearly identical with the same highly limited and listed measurements, not the case at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nethawk
This was once an interesting and productive thread. Why you people continue to provide an audience for those who always derail a conversation is beyond me.
So long as someone is around to post false, misleading information, there will always be someone else to correct their inaccurate claims. It'll always be like this.
You're right, though - this thread
used to be good...
Once again I say, read Floyd Toole's book, read some of his white papers or simply just read up on loudspeaker design. If you don't know what a bad set of measurements looks like then put in the research time to find out.
